Hey everyone, thanks for the posts. I did take a look at one local nursery (not a "big box" store) but they didn't have all of their mulch products in stock yet. They did have several pallets of cypress mulch, but no pine. So the pine bark mulch/fines/soil conditioner search continues. Interesting to note that both Menard's and Meijer's (a regional grocery store) carry the Golden Trophy brand of cedar and cypress mulch, but no pine bark at all. I believe Ohiofem said that her brand of pine bark is Golden Trophy, so thought I'd mention it. I've never seen so much cypress mulch in previous years. The strange thing is that here in the upper Midwest we have millions of pine trees but not very many cypress trees, so I'm assuming these mulch companies are shipping in huge quantities of cypress mulch from other states. It must be that cypress is cheaper to bag, transport, and sell than pine bark produced locally. I agree with Ohiofem regarding the use of that dyed wood mulch. Of course we shouldn't use that in our container growing, but I don't think I'd want to use it in my garden beds either. I don't have any definitive proof that it's harmful but that wood is very shredded and probably comes from all kinds of sources. Since mulch companies sell those bags of shredded and dyed mulch for only $2 or $3 per bag, no wonder so many people buy it. TYG

I'm not sure why we make such a fuss about zone maps - they are only guidelines afterall and individual microclimates due to topography, elevation and proximity to bodies of water do come into play. If you get a good sized detailed map of WA state, there ARE pockets of zone 7 in western Washington, most notably in the Olympia area at the southern most point of Hood Canal. And comments from forum participants living in that area certainly seem to confirm this. And FWIW, all hardiness zone maps are based on the same data, that being the initial climate information compiled and zoned by Henry Skinner of the National Arboretum with the AHS in the early 60's and published as the USDA zone map in 1965. It was revised in 1990 and is currently undergoing another revision based on more recent climatic averages. And yes, that zone map and all subsequent revisions do show the Olympic Peninsula as zone 8 - obviously that may not apply to the top of Mt. Olympus but not too many folks garden up there :-)) And most of the OP is very temperate.....witness the Olympic rainforest and the banana belt of the east side of the Olympics. Here's what the National Arboretum says about the zone maps: "The USDA Hardiness Zone map divides North America into eleven zones based on temperature and each is referred to by the zone number, i.e. Zone 5. Additionally, each zone is subdivided into two sections, A and B to further delineate temperature ranges, i.e. Zone 5a. The zones can be thought of as a general guidance as there is no clear-cut delineation between zones. Any location may be warmer or colder based on topography, drainage or wind exposure." (emphasis mine)

no evergreen holds its leaves/needles forever ... the oldest and therefore interior leaves are always the ones shed ... in NORMAL shedding ... it can be significantly increased by transplanting .. and aftercare issues ... its a stress issue ... they are not hungry.. fert is not a response ... from the first pic.. thats what it looks like to me ... i cant see much in the second pic because of the bright sunshine ... and the only response would be proper watering for all of this year ... and they should be rather free range by next year ... ken look at the proper watering part, and mulch https://sites.google.com/site/tnarboretum/Home/planting-a-tree-or-shrub

Moni, I have nights like that a lot, especially if I go to bed early. It is like my body decides it has slept enough and is done with sleep for the night, but my brain always is saying "No.....let me sleep!" I always think I'll make up for the missed sleep by taking an afternoon nap, but then I rarely do. Congrats on demolishing the shed. That's a lot of work! I bet gardening will be more fun with that eyesore of a shed gone. I hope you enjoy your camping in the rain. I like camping in the rain as long as there is a place to retreat to in order to stay warm and dry---even if that place is just a little tent. Larry, It sounds like you have a good solid plan in place. Isn't it amazing what a pain in the neck that tall okra plants can be? I don't want any plant so tall that it makes harvesting difficult. Amy, I am so sorry for the loss of Ron's sister. My deepest sympathy to you all. I hate hearing the news about his other sister's cancer already being end-stage before y'all even found out about it. While I respect a person's right to reveal their own health information as they see fit, I don't understand it when people don't even tell their immediate family members that they have a terminal illness. I totally understand why you wouldn't want to go to NJ given the current state of your mother's health. There are days I don't want to adult either. There's not much new to report here except maybe the snake in my garden. This week I have cautiously entered the garden and done a bit of clean-up work virtually every day. Even if it isn't much work completed in one day, it does add up over the course of a week. I have been careful and watched for snakes. Yesterday I was in the garden only long enough to pull up a few morning glories and moonflower vines sprouting near my tomatoes---mainly because I went out there to check on the tomatoes and then just noticed the vines accidentally. They were trying to climb the tomato plants, so I ruthlessly yanked out every one of them. I still don't know if my fall tomatoes will have time to mature, but the fruit wouldn't stand a chance of doing so if I let the vines climb the plants and cut off their sunlight. So, I never saw or heard a snake while in the garden, but..... While walking down to the mailbox very late in the day, I glanced over at the garden fence as I walked by and there was a shed snake skin woven through the fence about 5' from the entry arbor. I suppose the snake threaded itself through the woven wire fence and rubbed itself against the wire to help remove the skin. I am pretty sure that snake skin wasn't there when I was in the garden because it was right at eye level and there's no way I wouldn't have noticed it. I don't necessarily think it was a venomous snake. Based on the shed snake skin's size, appearance and location, I think it was from a Rough Green Tree Snake because they love to hang out on the coral honeysuckle and cannas there in that immediate area. Still, I'm never happy when snakes send me an "I am here" message in the garden. I think I'll stay out of the garden today. I keep waiting for cooler weather to arrive and make snake activity during the daylight hours more rare, but it just isn't happening yet. Maybe next week. It was a lovely and hot summer day here yesterday, which probably is a gift in October. The girls played in the wading pool for close to 3 hours while I sat in the shade, watching them and supplying an outdoor picnic lunch eaten beside their little wading pool. They'd already had lunch before we went out to the pool, but worked up a big enough appetite to eat a second lunch a couple of hours after the first one. I told Chris when he picked them up in late afternoon that they had an extra lunch in the afternoon and might not be hungry for dinner. It is possible that they crammed in a second lunch in order to avoid dinner because Chris was going to cook a fish "with eyes still on it", in Lillie's words, for dinner and the girls were uneasy about having to eat a fish that looks like a fish. We were joined by lots of butterflies and dragonflies lurking near the water the girls splashed out of the pool. I do not believe I saw or heard a single hummingbird all day. Maybe the last one has headed south. We had a lot of wind yesterday and it kept the mosquitoes off of us for the most part. We'd have a little skeeter trouble when the wind temporarily died down for a few minutes here and there. The mosquitoes? We have the usual ones in great profusion ever since rain started falling in significant amounts again, and 2 or 3 days ago the large gallynippers showed up. Ugh. If it is possible to hate mosquitoes more than I already hated them, then I really, really hate those gallynippers. Dawn