Isaphan -- thank you for posting the photos from Chelsea! Did you get any other photos? Going to Chelsea has been on my bucket list for a while now.

I think I’ll buy this one just to vote YES to recognizing a gardener of color! Nice story in NY Times about this rose: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/17/style/david-austin-roses-danny-clarke.html?unlocked_article_code=Y1qcHt37Blsm6gjk3VFJEe2ypF5kU0YXYMIBRqNfkwIxJyqGXpl3gIsIfITwwnYXjcsF0v7vjwrpgJy2u6ZROGCQnJzyVCdUurSGoTi4XTn9qnqoAKZIyRJHwJsxu5RZs4btMMrymQQXNGJGdrRxFwEJuqrjHOjTiDkrgEG19zSwvOqIJMa0D1u-6JhXkkM9XGcdLXLx9F7NEMjzag3UhyVICtVrOxDF12_pWdhHRGumCkZRAxH2eJUv2fbXcfO9J9hKPtFbMlYK5E8dVti71Tp0uzIDa6Xp_j2j7JvCFSdN2biHSpRAv5lh9K2S2eL3KvY3XNoybBAp9YwhOQ5X1FjNzqzy36f-&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/17/style/david-austin-roses-danny-clarke.html

Well, my "first thoughts" are:

*Ho hum*

*Yawn*

*Next!*

John you're funny! I only care how long it'll hold the petals on.

It appears Austin isn't even trying. Jude has been a thorn in my side for as long as I've had him - I want more water. I want more manure. I want to be talked to. I want classical music played at my feet. But I will be his slave now that he has been tossed aside. When he is good, he is very, very good. When he isn't, he's just a green shrub. I also have WOH; a winner for sure. Desdemona is not a favorite, but, she is healthy. With these three, I don't have a need for another of that type. Why has Austin never produced a lavender rose? Why have they still never named a rose after their founder?

I have Jude and it has done nothing for me so I will definitely buy the Dannahue when it comes to the U.S. I am thrilled that a David Austin has finally named a rose after a gardener of color. I am happy to show my support.

Flowers, I love Jude which I've grown for nearly 20 years. My roses all get the same water and fertilizer, so he merits no extra attention. I will say that Jude is doing better in our colder weather, so far, this year, than during the four month, recording breaking heat wave we had last year. He rested a lot then. I agree that it's strange that there is no David Austin rose. Perhaps, his last wishes were to have no rose named after him, but that's hard to believe. I very much am annoyed that Austin just can't produce a nice lavender rose, let alone a purple. I think Tom Carruth should become the new head of David Austin roses. Then we'd get some lavenders. Now that would be something. Diane

Jude recently, in spite of three weeks of winds and storms.

Its seem that as of late the David Austin breeding program has had a huge emphasis on the dianty and dekicate aspect of their blossoms, so much so they just dont seem like they could handle the harsher climclimates found in most of North America.

Lately I’ve been leaning towards the Kordes and Meilland introductions brought over by Star Roses.

Angie - thanks for this thread!

Yeah, I'm not that impressed either. Doesn't look as good as Jude...and Jude has all the fragrance whereas this new one has only a medium fragrance. Deal breaker. Okay, I saw the video that Ben posted...he really seems to love the fragrance. Maybe I'd get it. It is pretty.

Ben - thanks for the Austin link and the video. Wait, no....I don't like tea fragrances. Pass. :) :)

Librarian - I agree with Diane...your bouquet is high quality...you have the gift!

Robert - those blooms are SWOON-worthy!! I gasped when I saw them...oh my heavens!!!

Trish - I had Comte de Champagne...and it smelled like urine to me. Ugh.

Diane - your Jude is, as always, unbelievably gorgeous!! Ooooh...the new pics are even more exquisite!!

Ispahan - so the fragrance is different than what Ben (video) says (tea)...you make it sound very nice. :) :)

Flowers - LOL love what you wrote. :) :)

I would love to see them do a striped rose.

David Austin would rise from his grave if they did a striped or lavender introduction.

Let him rise. Being too rigid produces mediocrity. Diane

Being dead produces rigidity too.

I knew someone would comment on Austin's rigid deadness, and Sheila, you were just the person I was thinking of. Seriously, heh, I meant the rigid thinking of David Austin Roses, and the recent mediocre roses they have been releasing. They need to get out of their comfort zone. Diane

Hugogurll - lol, you're right. :) :)

Oh, Sheila and Diane - you're priceless!

Mike here from the UK. I invested in Dannahue, containerised and in bud. Chuffed to bits initially. Well the flowers opened (rose in a large terracotta pot, chilling out in partial shade ... DAs apricot roses seem to hold their colour so much better in ps), then the blooms all shattered quickly after a couple of windless days. Well goodness me - this might have been the stress of the transit and subsequent, but careful, transfer to a much bigger space. So I need to be patient, but the jury is out for now. My sister has grown Jude for many years now, and this is her best year yet with JTO, and for the life of us growers of roses here in the UK we cannot work out why so many of his best selections including Jude have been "retired", their word for dumping many of their sought-after roses unceremoniously on the compost heap. Reasons have been given, but I find it hard to come to terms with the issues highlighted when rainfall and heat and dryness and the rest vary so much in virtually all the regions within our Isles. You can't even buy their older superstars as heirloom roses. They are gone! Luckily my sister will take cuttings of JTO in the Fall for me - the very strong fruity perfume has always been a knockout with the wind blowing in the right direction. Do check out the gorgeous Delbard (France) Roses for wonderful perfume; Kordes (Germany) Roses for fragrance and worthiness - the Parfuma Series of note; and Noack (Germany) Roses - the Timeless Series for cut flowers of beauty, fragrance, and staying power.

HU, thanks for that report from the UK on DA's weird retirement program. Here's another retired classic of which I grow four, three of them for nearly 20 years--Evelyn. I garden in zone 7, semi arid desert. Diane

Evelyn a couple of days ago.

It’s funny to me because at least for a while they were carrying Ferdinand Prichard and variegata di bologna. I’m sure ebb tide was seen unsettlingly garish, but they carry that one also. Give the people what they want!

Diane - what treasures!! Heartbreakingly beautiful!!

Thank you Diane - hope all is well over the Pond. Indeed the frustrating DA "retirement" program is totally misplaced IMHO. Particularly when most of us have invested much time, emotional and physical effort, not to mention the fiscal aspect of rose purchase (not cheap for anyone these days) in our support and pampering of DAs 'English' Roses over the years in our own gardens. There must be something strange going on behind the scenes we are not privy to, and personally I think we deserve a kinder more generous mindset from the company under the spotlight, particularly when DAs 'English' Roses are so famous Worldwide. How strange that too - their new release, 'Penelope Lively', onto the market yesterday, which looks like a thornless 'Harlow Carr' - was not featured at Chelsea at the end of May. Even stranger to me - that 'Dannahue' is being distributed as the rose named after 'The Black Gardener' - we know this lovely, very talented horticulturalist from our TV gardening programs, and he is well thought of as a man of colour at the top of his profession. So why the need to underline it, unless DA Roses feel the need to join the Woke culture of "must be seen to show inclusivity". Total madness, the way of the World these days. 'Dannahue The Rose' needs to stand up on its own merits, and if it supposed to be a replacement for JTO, then let us growers of DAs roses, Joe Public, be the judge of that over time. And JTO has set the bar very high indeed, a tough act to follow.

Mike, over in the UK, East Coast Yorkshire.

Well said, Mike. :)

I'll add my experience. I was expecting the new "Jude", while this one looks like a mix Wollerton Old Hall and Lark Ascending in real life. Blooms shatter in a day, there are lots of them and the second flush is as abundant as the first one, repeats really quickly. Blooms start small but then growing in size eventually getting to a Jude size. The fragrance is mild at best, on a good sunny day if you sniff it really well sort-of-pleasure. An open flower looks almost identical to Wollerton, while the newly open bud reminds me a bit of Jude. it's rubbish in all honesty, it looks almost ugly for the most part of it,

no idea why they ever released it, I don't expect much love or demand for it..

Stephen - I love the look of the last picture. But, I sure won't buy one. :) :) Thanks for the honest review. :)

I wonder if the David Austin enterprise is not yet another example of the bell-shaped curve which seems to be almost inevitable in most concerns. After all this time I sense that we're seeing the steep downward curve near the end, where the original enthusiasm, creativity and drive have been diluted by a corporate mindset, attention to the bottom line and stagnation of truly original ideas. I also understand that the company had a catastrophic loss of all their darker-colored roses in their greenhouses. I wonder if this might be the right time for a firebrand of a new leader to step in and take the company in a new, more interesting direction and, yes, that would include the introduction of colors not seen before, such as the lilacs, purples and two-tones.

I think we are probably getting a bit over dramatic here. They currently release roses which were bred 10 years ago with David Austin senior when he was still alive. So all the new releases were approved by him for sure and he thought they were good enough to release. Btw Penelope Lively was bred by D. Austin junior himself and it's a great rose. I think they should stop releasing multiple roses a year just for the sake of doing it and get back some of the retired varieties to release one rose in a year but ensure it's great in all aspects.

Regarding colors- I know guys from the US would have different opinion on it, but I really doubt purple or bi-color releases would have any success here in England, pale colors and bright softies were always at the top of sales here. DA clearly misses the red range (Gabriel oak is the closest to red you can currently buy and it's not red LOL). I think DA got too excited with breading "healthy" varieties to compete with Kordes and got a bit trapped - as we all know there is no way to create a healthy rose which will tick all the boxes for fragrance and vigor and rain resistance/shape and would have any character at the same time. I think we need to wait for that "healthy" wave to get over and in a few years we should see the varieties bred in 2015s which were inspired by the excitement of D Austin Junior, i do think he has the potential.

Here is Dannahue during it's 3rd wave, when it just opens it looks just like Jude for a brief moment until it opens into messy nonsense and shatters the next day:) But hey, it's healthy indeed:-P

.

I for one hope the healthy phase never ends.

Ingrid, the problem is that David Austin Roses is a family owned company (unless that's changed very recently), and not a publicly owned corporation. A new leader for the company won't happen unless the family hires her/him. Diane

Stepan, you make a great point about what sells in England. The light is so different there from what it is here in Sydney. Here pale colours can get lost, though I love them.

What's not always realized is that a garden filled with light-colored roses benefits from having lavender and purple roses as accent plants. This often is more harmonious than mixing in red roses that can have the wrong hue for the surrounding roses or create too jarring a contrast. I'm always a little surprised when a bright pink rose is placed next to a bright red rose, with no intervening shades to make the contrast work. However, we all see colors differently and also have different expectations of how we want our gardens to look.

Diane, you make a good point, and I can easily picture that bringing in someone new in that environment would pose a problem. However, there's always a new generation coming along that may stir things up a bit!

Good points everyone.

Diane. I have also been patiently waiting and hoping for the release of Bring Me Sunshine. I watched Ben's video on it and have been hooked ever since I hope that they haven't decided not to release it to the US.

On another note. I had no idea that Jubilee Celebration was on the chopping block. Luckily I was able to pick one up at a nursery nearby this spring. And finding out that it may not be available anymore makes me feel better about the price I paid for it 🙃

Ingrid, you're totally right, that's why the most common accompanying plants for roses in England are Erysimum Bowles Mauve and Purple salvias - they bloom non stop even when roses are not in flower. There are some purples on the market here, but I've never seen a single purple rose in situ in anyone's garden, bicolors are always in "clearance" section here too.. My neighbor accidentally got a purple rose from Jparkers instead of a pink this spring and binned it straight away :-) Brits are a bit "conservative" when it comes to roses..

Well, sorry but I've no idea where you get this from, that we are all 'conservative' in our choice of roses... such generalisations have no place..

I can confidently inform that we enjoy as varied a selection as anybody, stripes, reds, hot pinks, yellows and everything else in between... people are desperate to obtain Munstead Wood, one of the most popular roses here..

A selection of colourful roses .. all of which others have bought after seeing my photos..

Hulthemia types are increasingly popular..

..we love our purples..

..oranges..

..and there's always 'Mutabilis'..

I don't have a picture of 'Dannahue' in flower, but it certainly has lovely foliage..

Marlorena, you're the very person I thought of in regard to purple roses as I knew you had them, not to mention your innate sense of color in placing your roses.

Stepan, I winced when I read about your neighbor trashing a rose without even trying it in his garden. It's often through "mistakes" that we learn to appreciate new things. However, I will admit to taking out Austin's "Dark Lady" after a while when she turned out to be fire engine red in my soil and garden conditions.

I grow around 50 roses on the drier East Coast Yorkshire, UK, (about a third are DA roses in variety, and frustrating in so many ways) - and arguably the best performer in the 2023 garden so far is 'Timeless Purple' from Noack, Germany (fragrance, colour, disease resistance, weather resistance), and the beautiful bicolour 'Claude Monet' from Delbard, France, another stunner which really popped out from the others earlier in the season. We can (and should) look past our shores for the best roses available, particularly when a third of our beloved English Roses are not thought to be worthy anymore by the Shropshire company who raised them and have now "retired" them controversially.

With regard to that precarious area called 'good taste' when it comes to colour combinations (and as Ingrid notes above) is the placement of "bright pink next to bright red". In his classic tome "Perennial Garden Plants", the late Graham Stuart Thomas, arguably the greatest rosarian of our times, Gardens Consultant to the National Trust, and good friend of David Austin Senior, had this to say. "No two gardens are alike and we all have our preferences ... but there is one basic rule which I like to apply wherever and whenever possible. It is that we must carefully place the reds and pinks which have yellow in their composition, away from those which have a hint of blue. It is the basis of all colour-scheming, whichever sort of red or pink may be your favourite." This notion was powerfully argued by Gertrude Jekyll herself in the borders she designed and planted.

On the opposite side of the fence, the late exuberant Christopher Lloyd (of the famed Great Dixter, E Sussex) encouraged his followers to ditch the colour wheel completely, and clash if and when we felt like it, and not be restricted by colour theory. I had met both Graham and Christo when they were alive and needless to say there were disparaging remarks hurled across the garden fence from both sides. Latterly, the renown Dutchman Piet Oudolf, who triumphed with Best In Show Chelsea 2000, also appears to enjoy the bling of clashing Heleniums alongside Phloxes, and occasionally Crocosmias with Japanese Anemones, in his admired and free-spirited naturalistic plantings.

For me, one colour notably appears to hold the hands of "bright pink next to bright red" and that would be the great leveller: lime green. At a higher level, this could be the lime inflorescences of Paniculata Hydrangeas; at the mid level, something like the stunning Euphorbia donii 'Amjilassa', whilst at the lower level the lime leaves of myriad Heucheras doing the rounds. Alchemilla mollis 'Robusta' is invaluable of course. Lemon yellow also has a calming and soothing effect on our more daring aesthetic choices. Then there's the blues which can act like a balm .. .. ..

With regard to the disease-resistance that we all seem to be obsessed with as we procure English Roses for our gardens. Its interesting to note that 'Roald Dahl' in the DA 2023 Catalogue is described as "Best for Health" yet both my Dahls are covered with black spot this year. Ah! There is possible protection however. This comes from the expertise of another respected gardener of our times, Sarah Raven, and she gives this tip of underplanting with small leaved Salvias, for the benefit of our roses' health: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLfzO-_dCBo Rosa 'Dannahue' looks healthy enough at the time of writing.

Finally I would suggest that in addition to purple Salvias and Erysimums to partner our roses, blue Campanulas, cooler blue Nepetas, and lilac Lavenders also effectively dilute (and harmonise) any clashes which might cause the neighbour's cat to blink and then do a u-turn straight back to base. Mike H.

@HU-309620285

Thanks for Sara’s video. I like the idea of under planting small leaf Salvias. I have planted victorial blue and midnight salvias in my rose garden. While they look good, they tend to get huge and take a lot of space, limiting air circulation. And they do not have strong pungent smell Sara mentioned. I will try small leaf salvias next year.

I have note down a few in her video: nachtvlinder (night butterfly in Dutch), Blue Note, Jezebel, cerro potosi. I hope these lovely salvias will not grow into monsters in our warm areas

So many beautiful rose photos! @HU-309620285 You write beautifully!!!!! I studied some English literature in university and your grammar, choice of words, and the way your sentences flow are wonderful to read!!! I love beautiful roses and the way you write is just as beautiful!

I think every photo of Dannahue that was shared here is beautiful. And thank you for the good information, @Stepan S! Wow about the foliage in @Marlorena's photo! Where is the 'buy it now' button for both this rose and a book written and autographed by HU, please?

Stepan - that's really odd to me (and interesting) that your neighbor threw out a rose just because it was purple. :) :)

Marlorena - gorgeous roses!!!! Mutubalis is wonderful and I especially love your first pick and that deep purple one!!

Mike - I enjoyed reading your post!

..thank you !.

I don't have 'Dannahue' myself and have heard differing reports but I understand the blooms do last more than a day usually, about 3 days.. but it produces an awful lot of them on a more mature bush.. this report is of a plant more than a year old.. [some people got it last year by mistake]..

It forms an upright bushy rose, perhaps wider than tall and should not be compared with 'Jude The Obscure'.. it has a pleasant scent..

..that's all I know.. I do like the foliage very much..

As for those Salvias.. I've had lots here dotted about.. if it works at all, and I have my doubts, you would need a lot of them, en masse I think, not just one here and there..

I currently have 'Royal Bumble'.. 'Blue Merced'.. 'Delice Feline'.. and 'Nachtvlinder' which is a rather sprawly plant whose dark flowers do not show up well..

I have had but lost to cold damp weather... 'Blue Note'.. 'So Cool Pale Blue'.. 'La Mancha'.. 'Red Swing'.. just for your information if you live in a similar climate - I know it cannot be compared easily..

@ forever_a_ newbie_VA8

I'm glad that you enjoyed the Sarah Raven video and found the information on Salvias & Roses useful. Joining the dots, Sarah (a former medical doctor) is married to the English writer Adam Nicolson, who is the grandson of the writers Vita Sackville-West and Sir Harold Nicolson, owner-occupiers and gardeners at Sissinghurst Castle & Gardens, Kent, in bygone days. As well as annual guided tours of her own garden at Perch Hill, Sarah also leads gardening groups at the much lauded Sissinghurst Gardens, one of the finest examples of quintessential English 'room' gardening, including the famous white (much copied), rose, and cottage garden rooms there.

@ Sharon x8b Texas

So many thanks, kind words greatly appreciated. I hope all is well in your World, and your roses all song and dance. Mike H.

@HU-309620285 I am glad you can't see me melt at your words. I would be too embarrassed if you could. Do you write professionally? Where may I go to find your work? Books, articles, poems?

@Marlorena Thank you for sharing what you've heard about Dannahue. I am excited about this, and David Austin's other new releases, and hope they are released in the USA soon.

@Sharon z8b Texas

A rather red face here too! No, I am not a professional writer, having just retired last year at 72 as a Clinical Instructor/Lecturer at a UK University.

I have a manuscript of a book I wrote some 25 years ago on the historical and scientific aspects of Rose Oil (Old Rose Damask Fragrance primarily, entitled "The World of Attar of Rose") - which I was very proud of at the time, several years in the making. Kew Gardens and friend, the eminent rosarian Graham Thomas, both had copies and tried to find a publisher, but to no avail. I was then asked to rewrite the script as a coffee-table-browsing book, rather than an investigative scientific dissertation, though it was definitely lyrical and a fairly easy read IMHO. I declined, as other aspects of my life took over at the time.

Closer to Houz'z home, I did make a significant contribtion to the discussion "Let's talk about the 'Myrrh' scent of David Austin Roses" which might be of interest. (page 6 of 'Explore Discussions', Roses). We've been fobbed off with the notion that DA English Roses introduced the "Myrrh" scent profile into their creations for far too long - this romantic fragrance feature has been applied and perpetuated since the introduction of Constance Spry in 1961. The scent in fact is authentic anise, or sweet licorice, as identified in the aromatic profile of the herb Sweet Cicely (Myrrhis odorata) which inhabits the roadways and ditches of northern UK. So not very romantic then! It has nothing to do with the bitter resin aroma of the genuine article, the sap which exudes from the damaged bark of Commiphora Myrrha of exotic faraway lands. The term "Garden Myrrh" tells us what the scent profile is more accurately I would venture - and the company has got away with it because so few of us have been privileged to inhale the real McCoy. The language "Myrrh of Gardens" would never sell roses, would it?

'Dannahue' update. The bowl of petals holds out for one day or two, then disintegrates like The Generous Gardener. So not good at all for picking. Hopefully a more mature bush will have many flowers to open in succession

to compensate for the confetti of petals covering the ground. Time will tell.

rosecanadian Yeah, i was surprised too but I get that, it was way too bright for everything else at the front which is very pale pink-ish, she offered it to me but it was a massive rose and i didn't have any space.

Marlorena. Regarding the colors, i'm talking purely from the stats I've got from the local garden centre, it can be different in different parts of the UK, here in Midlands purple and bi-colors are definitely not popular:) Munstead Wood - that's not a purple, that's a dark crimson/red with raspberry tones, there are no purple tones in it whatsoever.. And yeah, not sure who is craving it here apart from DA fans, cause I haven't seen a single MW in the gardens around Birmingham :).I'm not surprised you personally have purples and looking forward to having them bright colors - we are the rose fans are usually open to variety of colors in our collection, i'm just talking about an average Joe with an average garden that is very unlikely to have a purple rose.

..it can vary a lot can't it.. I did get purple in 'MW', at least in the outer petals.. this is what I would call purple/crimson red.. some blooms were almost black depending on weather.

I never found it the easiest rose to grow, and was better 'own root', as in these photos.

Purple roses are something one has to search out for, I think..

My local GC has a new one called 'Purple Siluetta', which has small flowers of very dark purple.. a short Kordes rambler..

Happy retirement !..

Austin has had some lavenders in the past, but they are gone also from his lists/catalogues. Two of them were Lilac Rose and Charles Rennie Macintosh. Both of them were pinky-lavenders that were more pink in hotter weather. The Prince was more purple, but it is gone also from the lists.

I also wonder why they got rid of so many of the stronger and brighter colors, many of which I liked. Some of those were good varieties. It makes no sense. Bright colors create a visual focal point. Pastels just blend in.

My manstead wood is located in semi shade has no purple in it, but I get what you mean:) It gives the Gabriel oak vibes with bright pink that might look a bit like purple..

Will the blooms last longer than Jude's? I can't stand how short lived my Jude and Heritage blooms are. Seriously considering consigning them to the compost heap.

Marlorena - GASP!!! I'm in love with your Munstead Wood blooms!!!

TheBustopher - I totally agree.

Stepan - I love the bloom shape of the roses in the first pic...my goodness!

Buying a rose simply because of the superficial physical attribute of a person it's named after is a very poor and baseless reason.

Much the same as voting for an individual because of the same things.

If you're only going to buy it or think you *need* to buy it because of the skin colour of whom it's named after, congratulations. You're part of the problem.

This is just Jude the Obscure 2023. I think I'll stick with the one named after a character from an extraordinary piece of literature instead, thank you.

If they'd develop a great shrub rose in shades of gallica madness and named it C.S. Lewis, I'd probably buy 10.

I respectfully disagree. We write letters or boycott products or cancel people or complain on social media about companies and their choices in our society. I think it's nice to also "reward" companies when I think they've done a nice thing. And I think it's a nice thing.

Also -- I've seen this rose, and it's not Jude. But to each his own.