In my panel running out of spaces on my ground bar

11 months ago

I've attached 3 photos zooming in. In the bottom photo you can see the only hole left in the ground bar in my panel. I'm connecting up a circuit so will require both ground and neutral to be connected to the ground bar.

1) Can I connect both ground and neutral under the same (single) screw?

2) You can see this hole is very large--probably made for #6 or so wire. Can I put #12 wire under a screw/hole made for #6? If the answer to either of the above questions is "no", what to do?

3) How about putting in a new ground bar on the left side of my panel? Would this work? https://www.amazon.com/Cutler-Hammer-Ground-Aluminum-Conductor-Terminals/dp/B00529824A

4)Do I need any additional bonding of this ground bar to the panel or are the screws that hold it to the panel sufficient?

Thank you all so much!

Best wishes

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Comments (7)

HU-867564120
11 months ago
It's AOK to add another ground bar to the box. Don't rely on the steel panel for ground connectivity, jumper the new to the old ground bar with a heavy copper wire (the gauge of which can handle the total current related to the circuits on the bar).

I don't like to use the same ground bar screw for the neutral and ground on the same circuit because of the potential for a single point failure (the ground screw failing) taking out both the circuit and its safety ground. For that reason my neutrals and grounds are on separate bars.
consed
Original Author
11 months ago
Thanks HU, this is very helpful. Do you have any comments on my questions 1 and 2? I'm planning on replacing the entire panel in 2 years and just want to get by until then.
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HU-867564120
11 months ago
My second paragraph addresses yourcquestion #1.

Your easiest solution is to double-up the new circuit ground and neutral wires with existing ground and neutral wires. You have several single wires going to ground/neutral screws that could be doubled-up.
kudzu9
11 months ago
Putting more than one wire in a terminal hole is not best practice as it is easier for the wires to loosen up over time. And it's my understanding that doubling up wires in a single hole is a code violation, except for specially designed holes that are approved to handle more than one wire.
HU-867564120
11 months ago
kudzu - Good point regarding 2 or 3 grounds under a single lug: This is panel-dependent and is decided by UL based on their testing. The approved action will be stated on the panel labeling. Instructions and labeling are also approved by UL. You must follow them, NEC 110.3(B).

My Square D panels allow 2 wires on the neutral/ground bars as well as on the breakers.
mtvhike
11 months ago
I like to use separate bars for grounds and neutral wires. On the main panel, they must be bonded together which is why you can use one bar for both, but I would try to get a second bar made for your panel. If it were me, I would put all the grounds on one bar and all the neutrals on the other.
consed
Original Author
11 months ago
Thanks to all of you guys. Yes, I agree with all grounds on 1 bar and all neutrals on the other. Furthermore I would like the bar with the neutrals to have the neutral from the street as well. Otherwise there will be a lot of currently flowing across the back of the panel (and the bonding wire) and that gives me the creeps. If the neutral from the street is clamped directly to the bar that has the neutrals, then the panel itself won't be carrying current except in a failure.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to do all this until I put in a new panel. For now I'm just going to get a new ground bar and try to make do with some neutrals and some grounds on that new ground bar. I'll also do the bonding between the 2 ground bars.

Thanks again to everyone!

In my panel running out of spaces on my ground bar

Comments (7)

HU-867564120

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In my panel running out of spaces on my ground bar

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HU-867564120

consedOriginal Author

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kudzu9

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