Kimberley - what a lovely entrance arbor! The only advice I can give you is to be doubtful about the heights listed for each rose. I have found that heights quoted in catalogues, by nurseries, and even by HMF come from some database(s) which may not be useful in very warm climates. Our zone is 9 trending towards 10, and every rose I have ever planted, with maybe 2 exceptions, has gotten 2 to 3 times taller than "they said" it would. Local advice is the best to solve this dilemma - if I were you, I would contact my local Rose Society, and see if they have information, or can answer your questions, about which of those roses their members grow near you, and can give you advice about which would stay short enough so you could plant one on either side of your arbor.

Jackie

Kimberly do you spray? Unless you spray religiously I would not recommend Zepherine Drouhin in a heavy blackspot area like Florida. James Galways is pretty healthy for an Austin and could definitely be grown no spray. I do not grow any of the ones in your less flexible list.

Also Quicksilver arborose can be very rigid and thick caned. I would consider it for the arbor instead of an obelisk.

I don't know most of your varieties and how they grow, but my first thought when reading your post was similar to Jackie's: how big are these roses going to get? It may be I have issues around maintaining tight control of plants--I'm not good at it--but in my experience roses are rambunctious creatures that do best with lots of room, and though that arbor is attractive, I wonder how it would do with roses growing on it. I can certainly see it with honeysuckle, for example, of which there are some fine native varieties (not invasive like the widespread feral Japanese honeysuckle), or perhaps Carolina jessamine, likewise native. Naturally that's not what you were asking about, and may not be in line with your plans for your garden. and I hope you'll excuse me offering my two cents' worth.

Graham Stuart Thomas said that for climbing roses you should have a trellis with pillars at least a foot square. I ignored this advice and have to regretfully report that he was probably right. I think that little trellis will be pulled down by the roses mentioned. They get huge.

Thank you Jackie and Daniella! Helpful. This whole area is morning sun until 1 to 3pm depending, then dappled afternoon sun. So avoiding the scorch of afternoon. Plus having a bit less sun will Slow them down some. Also windy which helps dry off the leaves at least right now. Yes I know about Z.D.’s BS tendencies. She gets sprayed organic stuff. So far so good. I potted up the bare roots about 2 months ago. Right now, only some light BS and aphids are my pressures at the moment.

It won't matter that much about the sun. Two climbers on one arbor the size of yours will be too much. They will grow too large. One climber, or maybe one climber plus a clematis will be plenty. Your arbor is such a lovely one--it's almost a shame to cover it. Diane

This is one Colette--it is not a large climber. Imagine two of these growing on your arbor. There would be war (of the roses).

Colette might not grow as huge for you, Kimberly, if it doesn't have drip irrigation. I have one on an arbor of a similar size and so far it is ok on that arbor, though I allow it to spread out a bit at the base. Clarence House is on the other side of the arbor. I just have a few comments about some of the varieties you mentioned as I am familiar with only some of them.

One, Pat Austin has never had the vigor to be a climber here. ( zone 7a, NC) It is one of the shorter Austins. Lady of Shalott would be a better orange...it has good vigor and health and to me is very beautiful. Teasing Georgia is a huge shrub in my climate...very bushy. I do think that one would be too big. Other Austins on your list which I think might work: Tess of the d'Urbervilles...I have one on a small arbor. Also The Generous Gardener and James Galway. Both of those are healthier than some.

Moonlight hybrid musk is trainable but does have a lot of vigor. I think you could keep it pruned.

In FL you have a lot of choices among noisettes and tea/ noisettes. Some might get too big or they might not. You might have to treat it as an experiment.

Here's my Elie Beauvillain on my vinyl arbor which is always attracting algae or mold:

Crepuscule , a tea/ noisette...may or may not get too big. You can see Pat Austin in the foreground..you can see it is much shorter.

How about some of the smaller climbers? I’ve never seen pictures of Perfume Breeze getting huge, but I don’t have personal experience to draw from for this. My Perfume Breeze is an own root plant from Burling and still very small. Or maybe Red Cascade? Dianela showed us a picture not long ago that looked wonderful and not overpowering. Maybe Renae? Since she is virtually thornless, and not gigantic, she might do fine on an arbor like that. Sure, there are plenty of other nice vines to consider, but if your heart is set on roses, a rose would be really nice! But I do not have as much experience as many here on the forum, so I defer to them.

We planted 'Sombreuil, Cl.' ("Colonial White") on a metal arbor about that size in 1987. It's still there. The OTHER side of that arbor had another 'Sombreuil,' initially, but it now has the far-more-aggressive 'Mel's Heritage', which goes over the top and down the other side, and is probably more rose than you' want for that arbor. If you don't mind another white, I'd recommend "Secret Garden Musk Climber."

One caveat: If that arbor is made of wood, the roses will long out-live it. I really recommend a metal arbor.

Kimberly - please note, not all of the advice so far above are for folks growing roses in ZONE 10 as you do. Even with dappled sun/shade after 3PM, zone 10 is not the same as zone 7, or even zone 8. If you cannot access any local advice, I hope someone on here who gardens in Zone 10 will chime in about experience they have had with these roses. I agree with those who think that your arbor would be overwhelmed with 2 roses on it (unless they were VERY short growers, which stay short even in a very warm climate). Location, location, location is good for assessing roses, not just real estate! Of course, any rose can be kept to a size you like if you prune it once a week or so - don't know if you had that in mind.

I had a lovely metal, 2 ft wide, 8 ft tall obelisk once which we put to "hold up" a bush of 'Duchesse de Brabant'. Within 3 years, that rose had eaten the obelisk, and had torn it into 2 parts, and dragged the parts away from each other. When I discovered what had happened (I tend to let my healthy roes do what they want to do without much interference from me), DdB had doubled in size, and the 2 parts of the obelisk were 2 1/2 feet away from each other, buried inside of it. My DH had to cut them up to remove them from inside of the rose.

Jackie

I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I do want to add that IME, a warm climate alone does NOT automatically guarantee that all roses will become huge. In Jackie's garden they apparently do, but her soil has been cultivated lovingly for many years, I gather, by her ancestors. I don't know what kind of irrigation she provides her plants,but the amount of water a rose recieves is an enormously important factor as well. My garden in Tuscany, Italy,is in a woodland, about a 20-minute drive from my house,without running water,and the soil was never cultivated before I arrived,so roses grow very slowly for me and don't all automatically become gigantic.

Very true, bart, and I've had this experience, too. But I've also gotten gigantic roses, even without watering or any other particular care. I think a permeable soil and some protection from wind and sun may be very helpful. I've never entirely figured out, though, what makes some of my roses grow huge, and other pine. N.b. Florida's famous for rain. I don't know its record for roses, though, given so much of it has sandy soil, and summers are so hot, not cooling much at night, and so humid. It's a different climate from the Mediterranean climate that you and I in Italy, and Jackie in California, garden in.

I think this color combination is pretty. I think bold, bright, clashing colors can work too! They're like a shot of coffee in the morning!

I enjoy your musings , Rifis.

Kimberly,

That is a lovely arbor! I agree almost too pretty to cover up lol. I am in N FL not South FL but I assume all climbers will be at least double or even triple the listed height. We get a ton of summer rain here which mot roses love along withthe heat and go nuts. If they are black spot resistant, they like our climate.

Of your list I have experience with:

-Tess on own root has got up to 17 ft at my old house. We cut her back & moved her here and had to just plop her somewhere temporarily, so she is beside a carport and will need to get moved again. She is really thorny and will be a menace there lol. She makes lots of hips.

-Raspberry Cream Twirl and Pat Austin haven't got too large here. My RCT is own root. RCT isnt very thorny at all.

-James Galway is a mannerly climber and blooms a lot. It is black spot resistant. Not huge on frgarnce though.

-Teasing GA is healthy and a great bloomer. She will be a monster in FL. One planted w a clematis or passiflora etc would be plenty for that arch. 2 TGs tore down a metal gazebo here. Metal eventually rusts unless you can get something like rebar or galvanized etc. The common arbors offered all rust within 3 yrs here. I am not buying any more after my recent purchases finish rusting out.

- The Generous Gardener black spots generously lol! She also is pretty bleached out and the blooms blow quickly in hot weather.

-Quicksilver is a winner here. Minimal black spot, good repeat, good bloomer. Not a lot of fragrance but one of my favorites! One would cover that nicely with a clematis on the other side. You could possibly use 2 QS and keep them pruned a little. They are thorny to deal with!

Most wood rots here even ground contact rated posts etc. We use mostly t-posts on our livestock pens except for corner bracing and gate posts etc. so we dont have to replace as many posts! If one could get a hold of old growth Cypress and make arbors, those would last and last-maybe a lifetime!

Cedar and Redwood are better that most other available woods. I have had cedar eventually rot out though. Teak, of course, would be great but $$$. Bamboo is strong and mostly rot resistant, if you could get large enough culms and make a trellis from them, I bet that would last in FL.

I dont have any experience with vinyl arbors here. I have been told the sun will rot them eventually. I hope someone else can advise on that. I am curious to know. If they lasted at least 10 yrs in our climate, that would be good!

In my climate climbers get big. This is Wollerton Old Hall at the beginning of it's third year.e. Just one plant.

WOH is he cream rose in the far back growing on the fence and arbor. The arbor is close to 9 ft tall.

From the other side

Librarian, I love your Wollerton Old Hall! I really should get that rose because it is so similar to Jude but climbs! I like how your arbor is a gateway to a space unseen from the front like a secret garden room!

Kimberly, you could do Maman Cochet Cl or even prettier, White Maman Cochet Cl over that arch. They both do well here. I had the reg pink Maman Cochet Cl on a gazebo at my old house w James Galway. MC Cl tried to take over the whole thing! She is very healthy and has decent repeat. They both hated being cut back and moved but so far have survived. I have pink Maman Cochet Cl planted with Spirit of Freedom on a huge RV/tractor Carport. Maman is situated on the end where she can also, cover an eventual side of a lattice fence that will surround a courtyard on our tiny house/outbuilding. After White Maman Cl recouperates more from being cut back, it will be planted on the other side of the courtyard with Glorie des Rosomanes, another good older rose climber here. Sherry from Ocala, a previous poster on GW, has a blog: If Only Sweat Were Irrigation..where she posted about a Maman Cochet Cl and the arbor she built for them etc. She has a lot of good roses and other flowers for FL on there too.

http://sherryocala.blogspot.com/p/the-roses-in-my-garden.html?m=1

Great comments everyone. Loved the 'conversation between orange and white, fun - and you actually answered my question! Whoo hoo.

Let's see.. some replies in no particular order.

1. I'm not looking to get more roses, I already have almost double what I should. lol. (I'm sure NO one else does that, right???? lol)

2. Structures: Hubby doesn't want all wood because of termites - and he wanted me to use vinyl as metal rusts after a while. As was mentioned Wood doesn't last (we are about 1.5 miles from the ocean). He does let me sink pressure treated heavy lumber like 2x4s and 4x4's in the ground to anchor the vinyl. And I do have the odd metal structure (8' obelisks and some wicked heavy 4' Tuteurs I picked up over 10 years ago.

3. The arbor is anchored with four 2x4 pressure treated posts sunk 3' down and 2' up into the arbor, stainless screws. The vinyl standing trellis on on 4x4 posts sunk 4' down and 2' up, etc. Per town regulations, I cannot attach anything 'to' the house, nor have unattached structures like pergolas, sheds. I had to get this approved as it was. (Hurricanes and neighbors....)

4. Climate: yes, z10a with humidity. We also have almost constant air flow/breeze which is super helpful to control BS. I likely will have more issues with aphids and powdery mildew - but we will see. The less spraying I need to do, the better - but we shall see. 4 to 5 hours of sun, some areas have 6. All morning sun, then a bit of afternoon shade.

A. I think perhaps I'll put Zeph D climbing up the 30' plumeria tree. No thorns to scratch the soft smooth bark. I could also put her on the NE corner of the house, porch post and porch roof. She will be the big one, with the most BS. The wind would be better on the porch site.

B. I stayed 'away' from massive house eating roses. Moonlight could be encouraged to climb a rough barked palm. I used to have a Bouganvillia there, until a serious of hurricanes, back to back took it out. The Bougy was on a metal arbor, did well. Also did an upright posts/pillers with anchor chain slung between - heavy. The bougy covered that like a giant swag and loved it. Big, thick woody thorny thing. I was thinking that if the Bougy looked good on the metal arbor and on the 'espalier' swag chain, a rose would be okay?

I've watched a few youtubes on how to loosely training roses onto arbors and obelisks. Mostly around the outside, horizontally - not through. Now I know why. Thanks all.

I am thinking about colour combinations. I've noticed that not all pinks look good side by side. The tones can be off. Also here the sun and heat seems to change the bloom color a bit from the 'catalog' pictures. (Of course, the bushes I have are all one one year, or bare root). I'm trying to plan based on mature colors.

Here is an idea: I've read Tess likes to grow fanned out. I can confirm this having snapped a cane when gently and slowly attempting to bend it. Then I saw a great old video from Ashdown Roses, where the guy taught about pegging roses for FORM. So I thought about putting Tess on one side of that arbor. Let her grow up, then when she gets near the top have her arch AWAY from the arbor and peg downward (imagine a surfing 'pipeline' wave, with a round 'eye' in the middle). If she truly grows 15 or more feet, arching back downward - I have a great white statue to put in the 'eye of the wave'. On the other side of the arbor I could put Gen. Gardener with it's white/light pink to contrast with Tess's crimson. That side of the arbor will have less sun. I could let GG climb up and loosely wrap horizontally then up/over the top to mingle with part of Tess. This would require some shaping and pruning for sure. With a few wraps the actual length of the rose canes would be around 20' or so at that point.

After reading your comments I could put a 12' pressure treated 4"x4" pillar post (painted white with marine paint) outside the side panel on both sides of the arbor? The pillar could bear the brunt of the rose's weight perhaps. I could even position it about 12" away so that the 2x4s and the 4x4 created a triangular structure together too support the rose. Think it's worth it?

There's a great tutorial on DIY rebar arbors... which will rust like mad. But certainly cheap. You'd WANT roses to cover the whole thing as rebar isn't exactly the best looking material. I could make a few of those I suppose. ???

@librarian_gardner_8b_pnw wow your WOHall is a beaut. I love that form. It's also seems to be a much stronger apricot color than a cream with apricot shading - at least to me. WOH is very much recommended to climb in heat, and can be pillered. So I was going to put him around the outside of an 8' obelisk. I may need to sink 12' or even a 16' timber behind him too. I can see how yours is easily 12'. Beautiful.

My WOH gets all day sun.... One side is eastern exposure and the other western. Our sun probably isn't as strong as yours, so ititayit 🙄 it may bleach out to a more solid cream for you. You'll definitely need more than the 8ft obelisk for it. It likes to be bushy as well as tall. It might work well with your modification.