Fiddle leaf fig help

last year

Hi guys,

I am hoping someone can help me with my fiddle leaf figs that appear to not be doing so well. I recently came across Al’s 5-1-1 mix and wanted to use it for my new figs. Since then I have learned that right now is not the best time to replant them but since they were root bound and pretty compacted in the grower pot I got them in, I decided it was best to repot asap.

I had a very hard time finding pine bark fines in my area. I live in a suburb of Chicago and didn’t realize how difficult it would be. I found a landscape yard and trekked through mud to acquire some pine bark and then sifted it through a 1/2 baking rack :D. Since I recently purchased a new bag of Fox Farms Ocean mix, I reached out to Al to see if I could use this mixed with the pine in different proportions so my purchase did not go to waste. He recommended a ratio for me. I mixed it up and repotted both the figs (and trimmed some roots). After repotting, both figs started drooping their leaves and both have lost at least 8 leaves from the bottom. The one in the white planter started perking up after a couple weeks, while the one in the brown planter is suffering. I did notice some little fruit flies on the one in the brown planter and sprayed a diluted hydrogen peroxide mix on the top of the soil in hopes of getting rid of the flies.

I replanted a citrus tree in the same mix as the figs and since I might have dried out the roots while replanting, the branches ended up turning completely brown. I took it out to inspect the roots the other day and noticed that the mix that it was in was completely soaked at the bottom of the pot (all my planters have drainage holes). So now I am thinking that this is the issue with the figs- the mix is retaining too much moisture and not drying out completely. The pine mix I got has a lot of dust in it (and might even have some sand mixed in) which I’m thinking is the reason why the mix isn’t drying out properly.

I would hate to lose both figs and am hoping there is something I can do to fix the issue. If the pine bark that I have does indeed have too much dust, I would like to purchase the right product but need help locating some. I would like to start over and get it right for future plants too.

The pictures I’m attaching are both figs, the leaves browning, the dry pine bark mix that I have and what it looked like at the bottom of the pot drenched. Any advice is really appreciated and I’m crossing my fingers that they can thrive once the issues are corrected. Thanks!

Featured Answer

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

last year

I now understand that the first version of pine fines I bought had too much dust. I should have came to that conclusion when I tried for days to dry it out before using it. You are right to be suspicious, but remember that the plant uses a lot of water from the grow medium, so how quickly a medium in a pot (w/o a plant) dries down isn't a very reliable point of reference.

The peat I bought is the Promix all purpose mix. It is 90% peat moss and has peat hummus, perlite, limestone and mycorrhizae added. Hear me out- since it is mostly peat moss I thought it would be better to use this version because it already has some perlite and lime and I would add a little less perlite to get the right consistency. Plus the mycorrhizae sounded like a good addition. I wouldn't be too excited about the fact the Promix contains Lime, perlite, and mycorrhizae. As minor fraction of the mix, it won't have near enough lime or perlite for the larger volume you're making, and the mycorrhizae is more likely to have lost viability than to be alive. It was found that more than 70% of the products advertised as containing living mycorrhizal fungi had only dead fungi. If the conditions in your containers is favorable to the fungi, it will be there. If not, it won't. I usually see clear evidence of mycorrhiza in spring/ fall/ winter/ but never summer.

The images look much better, but don't be chary with the perlite and make sure you have an adequate amount of lime in the mix.

Can you share the brand of the pine bark that you use or a brand that has the right size pieces to dust ratio? I know some people use orchid or reptile bark which seems to have no dust at all. Is this a better option?

The brand varies from year to year. I've bought Royal Gardens and and products from more than a dozen other packagers over the years. Focus on who stocks/sells it rather than the brand. The retail seller will be buying it from a wholesaler who gets it through a broker, so even the retailer seldom knows what brand it will be until it arrives.

To the left of the bark are stacks of Turface MVP for the gritty mix. To the right are the last of my stacks of Vita Bark brand fir bark that is packaged by Shasta Forest Products in CA. I bought 2 pallets of it when Oakhill Orchid Supply went under (Chicago area). It's too expensive for my taste now, so I'll go back to screened pine bark in the gritty mix when the prescreened stuff I have is gone. You CAN use the Reptibark for the gritty mix, but it a bit coarse for that, and it won't work all that well in the conventional gritty mix, but you can make a very good product with Reptibark, pumice, and Turface MVP (screened). Or, you can save the $ and screen your own pine bark for gritty mix.

The fig in the white planter seems to have stopped being so dramatic. Only the one lower leaf has the dark spot but it hasn’t lost any leaves or continued browning for over a week now. The fig in the brown pot unfortunately is down to about 7 leaves. It's good that things are starting to turn around. I know you're concerned about the leaf loss, but there are ways to fix that and force the plant to grow new branches from just above where every leaf is attached to the branch/stem. Get the plant back on track (pivots primarily on getting watering intervals right) and we can talk more about that in June. Growing well is very methodical and in sync with the plant's growth cycle.

Do you have your houseplants in growers pots that are in containers? I don't have much interest in houseplants other than the trees and succulents I grow. Most of my experience growing houseplants centered on showing how invalid the bias of detractors of the 5:1:1 and gritty mix was. Everyone thinks their favorite plant is completely unique and requires exacting care, when the fact is, most houseplants other than cacti and about 2/3 of succulents, want a well-aerated medium kept moist or damp, never wet or soggy. So, they would say you could never grow an African Violet in the gritty mix. or maybe a Jade in the 5:1:1 mix, so I would buy one, grow it for a year, repot it in the summer, then give it to someone I knew. My focus is almost entirely on bonsai and a few succulents for variety, but I have no trouble keeping houseplants in fine fettle.

My worry is that if the correct ratio of your mix drains a good amount of water, it would be a little difficult to lift these heavy figs and capture the drained water. I understand the importance of draining the built up salts though. How many days does it typically take for the mix to dry out? Most of my plants are in the gritty mix and in very small pots.

About half get watered every 3 days, the other half get watered every 6 days. While it's best to water your plants on an as needed basis, the gritty mix hold so little water between soil particles that it allows me to water on a schedule with no fear I might be over-watering.

If you're using the 5:1:1 mix and larger pots, there is no reason to think you won't be able to go 7-10 days between waterings, depending on all sorts of variables. If you have a collection saucer, lift the plant above the bottom of the saucer

so the waste water can't have a pathway back into the grow medium. The water should completely evaporate during the interval between waterings. Of course, you'll want your collection saucer to be deeper - the one in the image just happened to be at hand.

What is a ballast? (You mentioned employing an item for ballast.) Ballast is an item or items used at the bottom of the pot to occupy space that would otherwise be occupied by saturated soil. See D below - an over-turned pot used as ballast. The shaded part represents perched water; note how much less excess water is in the medium of D compared to A.

Below, bricks are used as ballast to displace soggy grow medium. Those bricks could be turned on edge and 2 more added to reduce by 90% the amount of excess water the planting is capable of holding. Ballast is a remarkable aid to growers who use overly water-retentive media, I don't understand why it's not widely suggested or explained.

Also, on another post I saw you recommended pinching fiddle leaf figs from June to September and then removing the winter growth the next June. This seems like a lot- is it so the tree retains its shape? I would like to learn more about your pruning recommendations for these FLFs! Winter growth is usually long and lanky and affects your trees appearance. In spring, I remove all winter growth back to 2 leaves per branch. From the 2 leaves, I get 2 branches.

When the new branches are about to open the 3rd leaf, I pinch it back to 2 leaves. Now I have 4 leaves with a branch in the axil (crotch) of each. The next time I pinch, I get 8 branches, then 16, 32, 64. This is the most efficient way ti increase ramification (branch and leaf density).

The plant below is a trailing ficus.

It's normal growth habit is long internodes and trailing branches. Have you ever seen a coleus this dense? Judicious pinching.

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Comments (8)

iochroma
last year
Another victim of 5-1+1
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
last year
last modified: last year
Another victim, that's certain, but it's equally certain it's not a victim of the 5:1:1 mix. I've transplanted thousands of perennials (trees are perennials, too) and grown thousands of annuals in the 5:1:1 mix with exceptional results, as have many, many others. Anyone can stand on the sidelines and snipe ..... If the 5:1:1 mix is made according to the basic recipe or the concept made manifest in the mix, it will work extremely well for nearly any plants we're apt to grow in a pot, including produce. It holds much less water, far less perched water, and offers far superior air porosity, o/a and at container capacity; so if you can find a downside in that, please share your thoughts.

@Margaret Oh I'm sorry to learn you're having such a problem with the plant. I went back to look at what I suggested and noted I was careful to explain the concept of the threshold proportion and that there should never be enough fine material to fill all the spaces between the coarser material. The bark in the image you shared already has more than enough fine material to fill all the air space between the coarse particles, ant that's what you're depending upon to create the large pores. When I suggest 8 parts of bark and 2-3 parts of the Fox Farms medium + perlite, I didn't realize the bark you would be using would be so fine, or, that you were going to repot the fig so early.

The bark at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock (from 3 different suppliers) is ideal for the 5:1:1 mix. At the center is what a good 5:1:1 mix looks like when dry.

I also noted that you had sent additional messages. I probably get 10-15 messages per day on average from a couple of forums and other gardening friends/enthusiasts. With it being spring, I'm repotting bonsai almost all day long and am more than 100 email messages behind, as I'm also working on installing a bunch of electronics and a trolling motor on a new boat.

Here;s what I would do:

* Drill or melt a hole through the bottom of your pots where the bottom meets the sidewall.

* Insert a wick made from a strip of (rayon) man-made chamois or (better) use a strand from a rayon mop head (not cotton). See the strand next to the plastic bag in image below.

* Fold the end of the strand over a straight slot screwdriver and push it into the hole. After you're done watering, tip the pot at a 45* angle with the wick hanging 3" or so below the bottom of the pot until it stops draining. The pot should be situated so the hole is at the lowest point.

* Use a 'tell' to determine what an appropriate watering interval is.

* Keep looking for a bark product more appropriate than what you found. Spring is the best time of the year to be looking.

* Don't give up on the mix or the concept. Both are valid and easier to grow healthy plants in than almost any packaged product you can purchase; but, do wait until you find an appropriate bark product. You can often find bark at greenhouse and especially nursery ops. There are several nurseries that sell it by bag or pallet within 10 minutes of my home and a wholesaler I can buy from about 45 minutes away, so it IS out there.

Most issues with the mix involve first time repotters or growers new to the concept that are desperate to make something work and use ingredients that can't deliver the advantages the grower is looking for. Too, there is the idea that you can have ingredients at your disposal that can be used to make an exceptionally productive mix, but they can be assembled in a manner that makes them virtually unusable.

If you can use the technique I outlined to reduce water retention (and even employ an item for ballast, too, which would help a lot) and get your fig straightened around; and if you can find a bark product that will work better, you could still repot again in June.

Al
Margaret Oh thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
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Margaret Oh
Original Author
last year
Al @tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a),

Thank you so much for your response! I understand you must be very busy but I really appreciate the help.

I do not want to give up on the mix/concept, I want to get it right and learn as my plants are my pride and joy ;-).

I now understand that the first version of pine fines I bought had too much dust. I should have came to that conclusion when I tried for days to dry it out before using it. I went to another nursery that had pine fines and ended up buying a bag of pine mulch because the fines looked to be mostly dust. The mulch was a little damp because after two days of 80 degree weather in the Chicagoland area, we got snow the next day (because why not). Even though it was damp, it was nowhere near as wet as the first version I bought. I am attaching pictures of the brand, and what the pine mulch looks like after sifting through my handy dandy baking sheet. The peat I bought is the Promix all purpose mix. It is 90% peat moss and has peat hummus, perlite, limestone and mycorrhizae added. Hear me out- since it is mostly peat moss I thought it would be better to use this version because it already has some perlite and lime and I would add a little less perlite to get the right consistency. Plus the mycorrhizae sounded like a good addition.

Here is a picture of the mix I came up with and what it looks like wet.

Does my pine bark have too much dust again? Should I sift some out? Can you share the brand of the pine bark that you use or a brand that has the right size pieces to dust ratio? I know some people use orchid or reptile bark which seems to have no dust at all. Is this a better option? I can sift this one but would like to know for the future so I am stocked and ready to go.

Both of my containers have drainage holes- the white one at the bottom and the brown has a built in saucer. The fig in the white planter seems to have stopped being so dramatic. Only the one lower leaf has the dark spot but it hasn’t lost any leaves or continued browning for over a week now. The fig in the brown pot unfortunately is down to about 7 leaves.

Do you have your houseplants in growers pots that are in containers? My worry is that if the correct ratio of your mix drains a good amount of water, it would be a little difficult to lift these heavy figs and capture the drained water. I understand the importance of draining the built up salts though. How many days does it typically take for the mix to dry out?

What is a ballast? (You mentioned employing an item for ballast.)

Also, on another post I saw you recommended pinching fiddle leaf figs from June to September and then removing the winter growth the next June. This seems like a lot- is it so the tree retains its shape? I would like to learn more about your pruning recommendations for these FLFs!

Anyways, thanks again for your help :)
Mike the Fiddle Leaf Fig Guy
12 months ago
511?
Margaret Oh
Original Author
11 months ago
Al,

Thank you so much for your response and explanations! I am looking forward to pinching once summer hits and I have these figs under control. Since my last comment, the fig in the brown planter (with the 5-1-1 version with too much dust) started rapidly deteriorating. I declared it an emergency and decided to repot in the second version I attached pictures of (after adding more perlite and lime per your suggestion). Obviously the brown spots won't go away, but I am happy to say that it looks like it made a complete 180- the leaves are no longer drooping, browning and it seems to look more green and lively. I know it's not the time to repot, but at the rate it was deteriorating I thought I would have to throw it out eventually so that's why I decided to try and repot. Oh and I used an upside down pot as a ballast! I also ordered some Dyna-grow foliage pro and am excited to start fertilizing my house plants!

I of course have additional questions I'm hoping you can answer.

How do we know if there is too much dust in the pine bark? I have some left in the bag but towards the bottom there seems to be more dust. Is there a percentage of dust to bark ratio (~) to keep in mind?

So you would recommend the 5-1-1 for a jade plant? I recently got one and it would be great to use the 5-1-1 to not spend any extra money.

Is there a fertilizer you like to use for outdoor flowers like begonias, impatients, petunias? I prefer to use something natural since some of them are in containers, but some are in ground and I'd like to keep the chemicals away from my tomatoes. I also have roses and a mandevilla, not sure if there is one product that would make all these happy.

Your explanation of branching was super helpful to understand, thanks for that! The picture you attached reminded me of a video I recently saw on how to encourage a ficus elastica to branch without pruning. In the video the guy takes the top/bud of the branch and ties it to point towards the ground so the plant sends out a bud on the other side. I haven't seen anything else on the subject online other than the video, but was wondering your thoughts on the matter. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HFlIGWQ6g&t=8s

One last question- I have a 3 year old FLF that is just one stem. I like the look of it now, but I know eventually it will get too tall and pruning will be necessary. What are your thoughts on how to prune it so it looks nice? It has a lot of leaves, and I'm not sure if it will look silly if it starts to branch out at the top being so tall. Remove leaves and try to make it a tree?

Once again, thanks for all your help and knowledge Al!
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
11 months ago
How do we know if there is too much dust in the pine bark? I have some left in the bag but towards the bottom there seems to be more dust. Is there a percentage of dust to bark ratio (~) to keep in mind? The medium will give you visual cues. What's important is the concept that your medium should be based on a large fraction of coarse particles, typically pine bark that passes a 1/2" screen and won't pass an 1/8" screen; and, there should never be enough fine material to fill all the large pores between the large particles. The combination of pine bark's flat plate-like particles and perlite is somewhat unique in that a small piece of perlite wedged between two flat pieces of bark can create a much larger air space than would be possible when combining perlite with peat/ coir/ compost, other fine textured materials. As you now realize, the reason for the water-retention issues with the first batch of medium you made was the result of an excessive amount of fine material filling all the large air pores.

So you would recommend the 5-1-1 for a jade plant? I recently got one and it would be great to use the 5-1-1 to not spend any extra money. The 5:1:1 mix will work admirably for crassula, much better than commercial mixes based on all fine materials. I have many portulacaria growing as bonsai (same cultural needs/wants as crassula), and for those I use the gritty mix specifically because it holds so little water between soil particles.

Is there a fertilizer you like to use for outdoor flowers like begonias, impatients, petunias? I prefer to use something natural since some of them are in containers, but some are in ground and I'd like to keep the chemicals away from my tomatoes. I also have roses and a mandevilla, not sure if there is one product that would make all these happy. While there are a few plants which can be considered as outliers when it comes to their nutritional wants/needs, an overwhelmingly large % of plants will do best when a fertilizer with a 3:1:2 RATIO is used. "RATIO" is not the same as a fertilizer's NPK %s. Examples of 3:1:2 ratios are 24-8-16, 12-4-8, and what I use for everything I grow in containers, Foliage-Pro 9-3-6. It is a superb product and will serve you well as your 'go to' fertilizer.

With regard to nutritional outliers, hibiscus is an outlier in that it likes very little phosphorous (so never use a bloom-booster type fertilizer for containerized plants, and it requires considerably more potassium than nitrogen to do well. I also consider tomato as being an outlier because of how its nutritional needs change as the plant morphs its way through its life stages.

Too, you should know that plants take up nutrients in the form of salts, salts being the product of a reaction between an acid and a base. When the plant is finally able to take up nutrients descendant from an organic source, they are exactly the same salts you'll find in a package of soluble synthetic fertilizer, and the plant doesn't care if the salts came from a cattle byproduct (hoof/ horn/ bone/ blood meals), a dead fish, or a bottle of synthetic fertilizer. The idea that soluble synthetic fertilizers are by their nature harmful to the soil or the plant is complete hooey.

I recently saw [a video] on how to encourage a ficus elastica to branch without pruning. In the video the guy takes the top/bud of the branch and ties it to point towards the ground so the plant sends out a bud on the other side. I haven't seen anything else on the subject online other than the video, but was wondering your thoughts on the matter. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HFlIGWQ6g&t=8s The video's narrator is harnessing the power of the growth regulator/hormone, auxin. The flow of auxin within the plant is polar, meaning it only moves downward. As a growth regulator, one of auxin's functions is to suppress lateral breaks (side branching), keeping them from active growth. There is really no good reason to tie the plant up to get it to branch, as that can be achieved by simply laying the plant on its side with the pot slightly higher than the main stem. This will cause auxin to move to the underside of the stem where it will continue to suppress buds. Auxin will be entirely or almost entirely eliminated from the top side of the branch. This change in chemistry allows another growth regulator (cytokinin) to become dominant and activate buds along the top of the stem. The key to getting this to produce new branching is to mark or secure the pot so the same side is always facing up. Typically, the pot is positioned upright for the time it takes to water, then returned to it's horizontal position with the marked side always facing up. Tying the tree into position simply relieves the grower of having to be careful about how the tree is oriented when the pot is on its side.

One last question- I have a 3 year old FLF that is just one stem. I like the look of it now, but I know eventually it will get too tall and pruning will be necessary. What are your thoughts on how to prune it so it looks nice? It has a lot of leaves, and I'm not sure if it will look silly if it starts to branch out at the top being so tall. Remove leaves and try to make it a tree? When the tree is 1/2-2/3 of the ht you want to maintain it at, remove the leader's (trunk's) top leaf and bud. This removed the apical meristem wherein the lion's share of auxin is synthesized, which in turn activates buds immediately below the pinch/ pruning cut. The activated buds will produce branches. When the 3rd leaf on every new branch is starting to open, pinch that branch back to 2 leaves.

Branch pinched back to 2 leaves which activated buds in the axil (crotch) of each leaf. When the 3rd leaf on each of these new branches is unfurling, pinch those branches back to 2 leaves as well. By pinching all branches back to 2 leaves, from 1 branch you get two branches. From 2 you get 4, from 4 you get 8, then 16, 32, 64, ......

You can see how pinching causes an exponential increase in branch/leaf density.

Stop pinching in early fall and don't prune again until the following June. At that time, remove all the long leggy growth the tree put on over winter. Realize you're not obligated to allow all growth the plant puts on to remain on the plant, and it's quite appropriate to sacrifice growth on the altar of eye appeal. IOW, make sure your plant is growing well because growth is essential to good health, but don't worship growth - it's nothing more than a tool that helps you realize the vision YOU have for your plant.

Al
Michele Rossi
11 months ago
last modified: 11 months ago
Stop pinching in early fall and don't prune again until the following June. At that time, remove all the long leggy growth the tree put on over winter.

@tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a), even here in Naples, Italy, is it better to wait for June? Or earlier because the temperatures are higher?

Branch pinched back to 2 leaves which activated buds in the axil (crotch) of each leaf. When the 3rd leaf on each of these new branches is unfurling, pinch those branches back to 2 leaves as well. By pinching all branches back to 2 leaves, from 1 branch you get two branches. From 2 you get 4, from 4 you get 8, then 16, 32, 64, ......

Does this also apply to ficus benjamin? If yes, why should only two leaves be left per branch? If you pinch a branch leaving more leaves, will the new branches still only originate from the last two leaves of that branch?