re pump filter- looks like GE is my only option?? Unless I’m just not seeing any newer models of Electro/Whirl/Maytag that have an access panel?

230F? My mom‘s old Miele went to 90C (194F) but the new Miele only goes to about 75C in the sanitary cyle. The Miele goes something like this:

warm:30C

warm+ 40C

hot 50C

hot+60C

sanitary 75C

american front load machines with onboard heater usually go like this:

warm 30C

hot 40C

x hot 50+ to about 70 (more or less) depends on soil level and weight of load. You can not set the temp exactly what you want.

sanitary 68C (more or less)

allergy: about 70C but the way the cycle works is to first steam the clothes with very little water to high temp and then after a certain time add more water and wash in a lower temp. Sanitary and Allergy wash differently.

Also Xhot in american machines does not work in all cycles. For example you can not choose xhot in towels or whites cycle. For whites you can use steam option though.

If you buy any of those machines: Do not use the ”normal” cycle often. Do not hesitate to use “hot” when appropriate (it is not that hot after all). For difficult laundry choose a cycle that is more than 35min.

A trick to add more water without changing the valve is to start the cycle and after it fills with water to stop and restart it. When you restart, the machine senses a heavier load and adds more water.

Was 230°F a typo when you meant 130°F?

Regarding the Speed Queen suggesiton --- if you would consider a Speed Queen FL model (FF7), you should know that the "hot" setting is whatever comes into the machine through the hot water faucet. In other words, the "hot" setting on the SQs bypasses any mixing valves or automatic temperature controls. The actual wash temperature will be affected by how you have adjusted your water heater, by the length of the piping between your water heater and machine, and by the mass of the machine itself. As HU-16168550092 mentions, you can overcome some of those limitations by adding an external, 120V, in-line, point-of-use water heater next to the washer to boost the incoming water temps when desired. Details have been discussed in past threads. We can give you links if decide you want to go that route.

But: (a) there will be no recirculation to maintain a set temperature if that is something you are looking for; and (b) it adds several hundred dollars to the washer's already very expensive price of at least $2200. Will be even more expensive if you do not want to (or are unable to) DIY the plumbing. Also a lot more expensive if you want the washer in stainless rather than white.

@jwvideo Great points you make. Another, less costly option, could include installing a laundry wash sink in the laundry room or close by that would give you the option of flushing the pipes ’upstream” of the washer water inlets. Many people do this for their dishwashers before running them to get water temps up for better wash results. You could turn on the hot water at the sink and get the water temp up before starting the washer. While you would be limited to the highest safe temp for your main house water heater, it would still get you much better cleaning than tepid/cold water can. Another consideration if choosing another brand FL that has a water heater is that most of those are 110 volt and those (WhitlpoolMaytag,Electrolux,etc.) take much longer to heat water to the temps you want. (this explains at least one reason amongst others for the painfully long wash times). Compacts such as Bosch snd Miele solve this issue by offering 240 volt heaters but most homes would require new wiring ($$$$$) and then you would be back to machines too small for large/young families. And then too, laundry sinks can be very useful in their own right. All appliance choices that we make have, like most choices in life, compromises to be made which I suspect is why most folks find any kind of home upgrades/changes exhausting!!!

I will say it again. We are a family of 13 prople at home (two moved out). We get by just fine with Miele washers. They are NOT as small as you think.

Miele residential in the USA is 120V for washers and 120V for the heat pump dryers. There is a big difference between raising the water temp from 90-100F to 140F vs 60 to 140F.

I dontnundestand the aversion to longer programs and just do a load or two a day. Put clothes in washer before bed and start. In morning transfer to dryer and start. Refill washer, start and go to work. Rinse and repeat, I highly doubt you will be doing 14 loads per week with only 5 people.

I can only comment on Electrolux. I would never buy one again. I have a post on here somewhere about my issues with it. You can not add enough detergent to get clothing clean without over sudsing. Our clothing ended up with biostink. The machine was pristine. I ran tub clean cycles with affresh tabs, left door open, dried boot and detergent drawer so it was not a moldy machine issue. It drove me absolutely insane. I got to the point where we opened up the entire machine thinking the stink had to be coming from something inside. It was immaculate inside. The stink built up in the clothes. The machine was 5 years old in perfect working order and I got so fed up that I bought an LG. I had them haul the Electrolux away when I got my LG front loader delivered. I had to do multiple washes with ammonia to finally get the stink out. No more stinky clothes and I love my LG.

Are those your only options? Go with an LG - they make some of the best front loading washers on the market.

@vinmarks May I ask if the Electrlux model you had was a ful size or did you have the 24 ” wide compact model?

We had Fridgedaire (3.6 capacity--not compact but not as large as you are looking for) front loaders. Electrolux made them. Basically an Electrolux in a slightly different dress. We had the same issues vinmarks mentions. It was beyond astonishing how truly awful and firmly unresolvable the permastink was with those washers. The first one stunk up the laundry immediately. It lasted 4 years and blew itself up after constant break downs and repairs. The 2nd one was better in that it didn't break every three weeks but the permastink laundry was out of this world. It was so embarassing and nothing--I mean nothing helped. I scoured the internet for years trying to find resolution. I tried everything and was doing cleaning cycles every two weeks of vinegar followed by another cleaning cycle with chlorine bleach. Madness. After 12 years of that nonsense I got a Speed Queen top load washer in 2016. We've been good since then, with the help of this laundry forum. It took quite some time to rid our laundry of the horrid permastink. If I had to go back to FLers, which I will have to when my SQ is at end of service I will get Miele or Speed Queen. LG seems to very popular with many happy customers. I don't have one myself but I've investigated. The down side for us is that many of the cycles with LG (as with many other washers) have low temp water intake--which may or may not have been the root of our very stinky laundry for those years. I don't think Hot cycles got above 111F. We'll never know, but low temp washing, even when choosing Hot and Warm can be a culprit. Plus, it couldn't rinse for anything. I never had a clear rinse, ever, with those machines and suds lock was very common in our experience.

Maybe things are different with Electrolux now, but I'd not choose it.

@Alex Mars Ty for that info. Sometimes that trick works, other times the washer drains when turned back on, so I soak 2 articles of clothing in water in sink until saturated, then add to drum, so it senses a heavier load.

@jwvideo Yes, that was a typo :)

@luna123456 I wish I had the time for that. Working multiple jobs leaves little time in the house to focus on laundry in very small loads (and washing overnight/letting it sit, can mean funky-smelling laundry more often than not)

@vinmarks Thank you for weighing in. Do you happen to remember the model (and what detergent was used)?

@HU-16168550092 It was a full size model. I believe it was the 627 model. i still have an electrolux dryer.

@Andrea I believe the model was the 627. I used Tide powder along with STPP and borax.

Powder Detergents in general are better because of their Oxygen Bleach content. Liquids are incompatible with Oxygen Bleach, so they don't have it built into their formulas. The oxygen bleach, as well as enzymes found in Powder All, Ariel, Gain, and Tide all do a fantastic job cleaning, as well as preventing bacterial growth on the machine's outer drum.

In my personal opinion, I don't think you are going to find all the features you truly want on an American-style front loader. I really think you should re-visit the Miele line. Yes, you would have to do more loads of laundry, but I think you'd be more satisfied with the end result. Clothes will be cleaner and you will prolong the life of a lot of fabrics.

I also completely agree with your stance on avoiding South Korean LG Appliances. It's just not a serious choice for anyone who really cares about Laundering.

Minor correction on a tangential point: liquid laundry detergents are not incompatible with oxy bleaches. The problem is not compatibility --- it's the short shelf life of the effectiveness of the liquid form of oxy bleaches once its container has been opened. But maybe the big detergent makers have figured out a way around that? The other day, I noticed the local supermarket is carrying big jugs of a Tide liquid detergent called something like "Tide Ultra with Oxi."

@jwvideo, Actually the problem is solely incompatibility. Oxygen Bleach can not be mixed in an active, liquid form with enzymes. The problem is the oxygen will kill off the enzymes, within hours of being mixed. In a Powder Form, the ingredients are shelf stable because they are dry, and can be added in with ease.

Those liquid detergents from All, Tide, and other brands like to advertise "oxi" or "oxy" in their liquids or pods, but, it's just marketing. A closer look reveals that the "oxi" is additional stain fighters, or stain removers, powered by Enzymes or Surfactants.

I affirm my initial response.

" I also completely agree with your stance on avoiding South Korean LG Appliances. It's just not a serious choice for anyone who really cares about Laundering. "

Well, that's not true. LG have been making excellent front load washing machines and have been tops in testing and reviews, and low in repairs, for decades. Anyone who doesn't consider an LG isn't serious about "laundering". Yale Appliances' great blog puts LG washers as the most reliable (i.e. least likely to need repairs), and far above their nearest competitor.

Question: is it that we consumers must not use oxy powder when washing with liquid detergents or is it that that detergent makers just aren't able to package oxy liquid into their liquid detergents?

@jwvideo, you are more than free to add OxiClean, Clorox 2, Pure Sodium Carbonate or another oxygen-based bleach into your wash when using a liquid, or pod detergent. It will greatly assist with stain removal on stains that are bleachable. And, it won't kill off the enzymes, so you'll have the stain removal of both worlds.

As I said though, the issue is, and extensive research and development have been spent looking into this issue. Oxygen Bleach creates a very harsh environment where enzymes just can not remain stable, in liquid form. They die off within hours when mixed in a liquid form.

In addition, when Chlorine Bleach is added to an enzymatic environment, enzymes die within a minute. This is why detergent manufacturers, washer manuals, and even some machines laundry wash programs, recommend or automatically add chlorine bleach during the last few minutes of the washing cycle. This allows the enzymes to do their cleaning job, unaffected.

If oxygen could be added to liquids, liquid detergents would fare and clean just as well as Conventional Powders. Alas, it's just not possible, unless they were to create a detergent bottle that was dispensed from two separate chambers. This is why you don't see detergent manufacturers add oxygen bleach to their liquid detergents.

Interestingly enough, Henkel actually launched a Dishwasher Gel over in Europe, under the Somat Brand. It dispensed an Oxygen Bleach, and Enzyme formula, by using two separate compartments that dispensed at the same time. The product cleaned great, but, I don't think it's still manufactured.

lol. You just described the Miele TwinDos system. Enzymatic detergent in Phase 1 bottle and peroxide in Phase 2. They are dispensed exactly as you described. Phase 2 is dispensed late in the main wash cycle when the temperature of the wash water is near its maximum. This is when it is most effective and also near the end of the time when enzymes have done their work.

Idk. I had LG front loaders in my last house and I absolutely loved them. New place has top loaders and I’m dying to replace. All the reviews I read give LG top marks. Found my machines super reliable and they cleaned well.

I personally do not think that any of the large front load washers available in the US is above the rest. I assume that if that was true by now it would be kind of known. The same way that we all know that when it comes to top load machines SQ is really good. Of course there is the SQ front load but I personally would not go back not having an on board heater. Anecdotally, most of my friends have LGs (the model that CR suggested) for the past 5-6 years and noone had a service call yet. If I was only to wash clothes and linens I would not hesitate to buy a Miele for my next machine. However, I do wash bulky items once a while (big curtains, big throw pillows, poly duvet etc) and I am not sure I want to give that up. My mom with the Miele takes those items to the cleaners.

As Alex posted, I really do not want to have to go to a laundromat to launder things I should be able to at home. My MIL always brings her duvets to us to stuff into my SQ because it will not fit in her Miele. At least in the SQ I can kind of give it a hand wash, rinse it well and spin dry it before the dryer. Her Miele is a 2013 or 2014, it is simple and full of cycles, just not quite large enough to accommodate her bedding of choice. I had always wondered about the Little Giant, but that seemed very expensive for just a slight increase in volume.

@armjim the little giant is 6K. For that money I afford to have a Miele for my everyday washes AND a larger washer for my bulky items 🤡

In Europe some of my friends have the 9Kilo Miele but I am not sure how larger in volume it is.

@Alex Mars: "I personally do not think that any of the large front load washers available in the US is above the rest. I assume that if that was true by now it would be kind of known."

Data -- which are available -- are recommended rather than relying on "it would be kind of known".

That is ridiculous. Houzz is for people who get to know each other here to share their experiences and real world impressions, not empirical or analytical data, especially from consumer testing magazines.

You got the gist of what I meant. But I am enjoying my popcorn watching you short circuit.

@wdccruise, Wow. Was that really necessary? You certainly like to belittle people who disagree with you. This was just another example of total arrogance. Just like your earlier post, belittling the O.P. for wanting a higher water temperature, and telling them to use their stove. The whole pompous attitude needs to stop. This is a laundry forum, not a political debate.

For what it's worth @armjim, I have been screwed over multiple times by Consumer Reports ratings. I have also caught many errors on multiple occasions in their testing of the dishwasher and laundry detergent products, and appliances. At the end of the day, nothing beats real-world experiences.

I've had Electrolux front loader and matching dryer for 11 yrs. Love them and have not had a big problem with mold and have never had a smell issue.

Both sit on pedestals and large machines. I wash everything in it. Washer has a sanitize cycle and steam on the dryer. Dryer also has sanitize. I love the steam for clothes I leave in the machine and they are wrinkled. I put the steam cycle and clothes come out unwrinkled.

It seems I'm the only one who loves Electrolux so maybe my experience is unusual.

Jane

Thanks for writing in Jane and sharing your experience. Not everyone will have a negative experience with that brand and it's good that those who have had good experiences add their say. We have another member here...is it George?, who has an Electrolux and has been very pleased over his years of ownership. Discussion groups work well when experiences of the topic are shared and civil discussion occurs. We learn from listening to each other and applying that info to our own situations.

I've often wondered, what is it that causes marked differences in outcomes with the same product. Was it a lemon? It could be user practices, but I have to think it could also be water chemistry conditions that play a factor. Ex: We are from another part of the country. In that area, we never had moldy or smelly washer, shower or sink conditions to battle with. I simply cleaned on a regular schedule and all was well without having anything alarming pop up in between. Here, we even get mold growing in places such as toilets, sinks and showers. I scrub/clean and bleach more often than most people would and yet, here we are dealing with this a few days after a regularly scheduled deep clean. Go figure. Locals here think this is normal. Perhaps it is, but to me, it's not. This is a low humidity climate too most of the year...must be incoming water conditions; that perhaps interact with how detergents and soap are made present day. Who knows.

Wishing OP good luck on final choice. Share with us what you settled on.

@Laundry Mich: "I have been screwed over multiple times by Consumer Reports ratings. I have also caught many errors on multiple occasions in their testing of the dishwasher and laundry detergent products, and appliances."

Please provide, say, six examples including publication dates, products tested, and basic descriptions of errors and/or how you were "screwed over".

"At the end of the day, nothing beats real-world experiences."

How does a consumer's anecdotal experience with a single product beat a suite of tests run in a consistent fashion among multiple, competing products?

"In Europe some of my friends have the 9Kilo Miele but I am not sure how larger in volume it is."

I suppose the drum would be about the same volume, as many manufacturers only tweak the cycle a little to turn a 7kg drum into an 8 kg one or 8 into 9 kilos. Cheaper than to make the drum actually bigger.

"Henkel actually launched a Dishwasher Gel over in Europe, under the Somat Brand. It dispensed an Oxygen Bleach"

The one that has been sold (and still is) here in Germany never had bleach in it, despite the two chambers. Unilever had a "one-chamber" gel that had encapsulated oxygen bleach in its formula. It's no longer for sale.

As for the three brands listed by the OP, I'd go for Electrolux (well, LG but that's not one of the brands listed). There are a couple of YouTube channels that have recently done videos on a new Samsung Bespoke, the GE UltraFresh with AutoDose, an Electrolux ELFW7537AW and an LG WM4500.

I liked the GE the least, followed by the Samsung, Lux and finally LG. Unfortunately, many of these washers either don't spin between the rinses or after the wash. How any brand can think this is acceptable, is beyond me. The videos of the GE I have seen, showed the washer either not spining or spinning at like 400 rpm. No spray rinses. I have also seen another YouTuber showing mold spots on the Microban gasket. The Lux was another one of those no-spin washers, but selecting the PureRinse option mostly seems to solve that issue. It also has very flexible cycles and a pump to spray water over the clothes throughout the cycle. Overall, I did like the LG the best, however.

LG: https://www.youtube.com/@Deltarunefan2021/videos

GE and Lux: https://www.youtube.com/@washertester4296/videos 

Are there any FLs that are not some type of compromise right now? I liked my 2001 Kenmore FL. If it had of had a higher capacity I would have been thrilled. I was not so thrilled when the spider arm broke at 10 years of service. I never cared for my LG-I know from reading I am in the minority with my opinion of it. I see what all of you say about these different manufacturers, and I am thankful I am not faced with searching. And to get what would be close to ideal for me is not inexpensive. Edit to say that I have a brother-in-law about to put in an offer on a house that does not come with the washer and dryer, and I believe it has a laundry closet. Miele will be out of his budget, as would SQ I believe, so I am going to have to tell him something in a few months.

" that are not some type of compromise "

Everything is some kind of compromise, because nothing is perfect......About all you can do is decide your priorities and choose the best compromise you can. Like choosing a spouse or home ;)