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heruga

Is it normal for at least 1 of your plants to die overwinter?

Every year something doesn't make it through the winter and mainly perennials. And they aren't tiny plants planted right at the edge of first frost or anything, they are established perennials. Why does this happen. So far I lost 5 established perennials and 3 seedlings I planted in late summer. And then some have only a few growths on it while the same plant next to it has growth all over. The old cutbacked part of the plant just pulls right out and is rotten on the base. Idk if its crown rot or normal process of old plant matter decomposing while its still on the plant. They weren't planted deep or anything. I thought spring is supposed to be exciting watching everything coming back to life. All I have been feeling is anxiety on which plants fail to come back. So I want to ask.. am I the only one experiencing this every.darn.spring or is it normal for at least 1 of your plants to die overwinter?

Comments (24)

  • sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
    12 months ago

    March isn't even over yet: are you sure some of these plants are actually dead? I've written off lots of things over the years that I assumed didn't make it through the winter, only to see them "revive" themselves later on into spring (and sometimes even into early summer).

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  • peren.all Zone 5a Ontario Canada
    12 months ago

    Yes agree completely. It really depends if you are zone pushing, planting in a not ideal spot, setting seedlings out before they are ready and a myriad of other factors. As rp said some plants are short lived or have a finite life span of x number of years. When planting multiples there sometimes seems to be one that is less vigorous. Indeed celebrate the victories and shrug off the failures as a learning experience. Take heart Heruga I think it would be safe to say we have all lost plants.

  • Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
    Original Author
    12 months ago

    On average, I discover 3-5 dead plants that didn't make it through the winter. I know we all lose plants in our gardening experience but isn't 3-5 every year unusually high? I am pretty sure they are dead as my other same plants next to it are already growing. I tried to scrape some of the soil off the base to see if theres any growth that's still hiding underneath but still nothing. They are salvia glabrescens(woodland salvia) and I grew them from cuttings 2 years ago so I don't think its a lifespan issue. I also have another one planted far away from the group of salvias and it grew pretty big last year and had so many blooms. But for some reason that was one of my salvias that decided to die. I was happy with it one year only to discover it won't do the same for me the next year. So I am thinking why be all happy and cheerful of your victories if it might fail next year, just like my once heavy bloomed salvia did? I had many other plants do that to me too in the past. They give me false hope one year by growing to an impressive size, blooming heavily and then next year it decides to not come back. That is most heartbreaking thing ever. Also the salvia wasn't in a bad draining spot or anything but the crown seems rotted with the old cutbacked growth pulling out easily and the base of that stem being mush.


    I have some Japanese fan columbines that died but their lifespan is short so I understand. Sure there are more coming back than dead but I don't know why I have to deal with so many losses every year. My property is literally in a pit from other houses so it might have bad drainage. But theres never standing water after a rainstorm so I don't know if it really is a drainage issue. I am realizing more and more that the rarer the plants I try to grow the more fatalities I deal with. And if my property does have drainage issues, it's not like I can grow bog plants either because its not wet enough for them(many maples nearby too). But it might be too wet for average moisture plants. Soon am I going to have a garden left with just hostas and liriopes, like every other homeowner has?

  • rosaprimula
    12 months ago
    last modified: 12 months ago

    3-5 deaths is not unusual, assuming they are actually dead. I fear for 2 mature pots of agapanthus which were late summer stars in my garden. And a trove of pelargoniums, including a beautiful p.ardens. And an aeonium and agave. And a couple of perennial wallflowers. And several pulsatillas. And a parahebe and a coupla fuchsias. OTOH, my greenhouse is full of little seedlings, most of which are new to me, so thrilling. While we have no control over the weather, we can arrange our gardens with raised beds (drainage), irrigation, soil amendments...there is no reason on earth for you to be s glum, thinking you can only grow liriope and hosta.

    Heruga, a few years ago, I did the classic thing of picking up a sprayer, expecting a mild foliar feed but actually spraying MY WHOLE GARDEN with a fast acting, broadleaf herbicide. I killed off my entire tree collection which I had grown from seed (including all my sequoia, pines and sorbus.) The destruction was devastating.. After raging and weeping (and posting on here as campanula, back then), I bought a heap of cheap and shouty scarlet begonias, pelargoniums and did a late sowing of zinnia. And got back on the horse. This was the worst thing to happen in my garden but we survived - me and the garden, both.

    Now stop concentrating on the fails and count all the successes. There literally cannot be life without death - it is part of an endless cycle. Compost the dead things - bacteria, nematodes, earthworms will thank you and the dead plants will turn into nutritious. life-giving compost to nurture a new generation of plants. Take a longer, broader view, sow more seeds immediately and get going with basal cuttings. Dying is an absolute inevitable part of gardening - you have no control here, but you do have choice and agency to decide how you deal with it.

  • Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
    Original Author
    12 months ago
    last modified: 12 months ago

    I didn’t know you were campanula. I wondered where you went but good to know you’re still here. That is such a horror story.. if I did that I don’t think I would’ve been able to move on let alone be alive. Just like you I like to propagate most of my plants I use in the garden so the feeling of devastation is greater when I lose them. But what haunts me the most is not knowing the reason why they fail/die. I have no way of learning from it if I don’t know the cause and could do the same thing again in the future without knowing.

    I guess I’ll just have to accept nature and not let it bother me as much. I’ll see how many of my plants are growing vs the dead ones when I get home. I will say though I avoid throwing plants that died in my garden in the compost because there is always a chance the culprit was a disease, which I can’t completely rule out for this case.

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    12 months ago

    Wait, what?!?! RP is Camp!?!? Yay!!!


    Yea, stuff dies. I wouldn't say it's normal to lose that many plants a year but it depends what they were, whether conditions they were planted in was suitable, and what their typical lifespan is. Some plants are incredibly long-lived -- peonies spring to mind, while others are short-lived, on average. Other plants are incredibly demanding in their requirements - aka frou-frou plants. Sometimes plants just don't like where you put them and decide they'd rather be dead than reside there. Sometimes disease stress or insect damage does them in. Sometimes plants over-winter when it would be typical for them to die. I remember one year I had a pot of "Mystic Spires" annual (in my zone) salvia overwinter in the garage. So then of course I thought I could replicate that occurrence every year. Nope. Not up here. Was just some dumb stroke of luck that one time. Doesn't mean I'm a bad gardener or I failed in some way -- they just don't over-winter outside up here, they're too tender. The more zone pushing and frou-frou planting you do, the higher your odds of losses. But for some that's the fun part -- score if the stuff survives, if it doesn't then it's on to the next thing.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    12 months ago

    Well, rosa primula, welcome back! I too had no idea. And OMG--spraying all your plants. Horrors!


    But,Heruga, as far as losing plants, in my old garden, I lost Patrinia scabiosifolia regularly--and I really wanted that plant. But it didn't want my soil. Heuchera never would make it for me either. Nor Tiarellas. There were others as well.

  • cecily 7A
    12 months ago

    At the nursery last week I saw some nice pots of ajania which reminded me of you Heruga.

    This past winter was atypical in the mid Atlantic. We had above average warmth broken by extreme cold with no snow cover. If my plants died, I 'm not blaming them;) Seriously, I do expect attrition because my plants don't really go dormant then they get hit by cold snaps. I haven't written anything off yet but I'll undoubtedly lose a few.

  • cearbhaill (zone 6b Eastern Kentucky)
    12 months ago

    Everyone who has plants loses plants.


    I buy everything and and am not afraid to push my zone and conditions.

    If something does well I buy more and it it dies I don't.


    That's how you find out what works.

  • rosaprimula
    12 months ago

    I do think you feel more invested in your plants when you have raised them from seed or cuttings . It can take years of care to bring a plant to blooming maturity so yes, it is painful when they die. My solution is to grow more, as many as possible...which does lead to another dilemma - that of having too many plants to care for, with the distinct possibility that my own negligence is the cause of death. But hey, much as I love plants, they are not puppies or infants. And if all seems a bit difficult, I sow a few absolute reliable, failsafe delights which are guaranteed to give me joy (poppies come to mind).


    The longer you do this, the more experienced you get at recognising a plant in distress. I would like to say less plants die but this would be untrue - back when I was a novice gardener, I was happy to grow simple calendulas, lavatera, japanese anemones, larkspur and tough flowering shrubs. I lost more plants when I tried more unusual varieties, but it is a trade-off I am happy to make because I get a lot of pleasure from raising some tricky, demanding plant, You won't be happy with commonplace plants, Heruga, so try to accept some losses in the intesrests of science and aesthetics and congratulate yourself for the (many) successes you have.

  • rosaprimula
    12 months ago

    Re.composting. Yep, Heruga, it is probably better to be circumspect what you put in your compost. I have a couple of gigantic heaps which practically steam from generated heat. I get away with composting everything (including weeds, seeds, roots, old woolly jumpers...) because I push the heaps over into an empty bay, so can keep a hotbed going by continual aeration. I still end up pulling long white bindweed and couch roots out of the pile. Hard work, but fast. I have a much slower cold composting pile which can take a coupla years to really rot down and never gets enough heat to deal with disease pressures. Some years, I am a composting queen while other years I am lazier.


    It's all still a big experiment and not always fun and pleasure. I moan often enough on here and even after 25 years or so, I still get demoralised, anxious and flustered but hey, there's always something else along in a moment to lift the spirits.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    12 months ago

    first off.. a dead plant.. is a reason to go buy a new plant,.. you are basically dead.. the day you dont want to go buy a new plant.. lol .. i havnet gardened in 10 years.. and i still have to physically restrain myself from going to nurseries and not BUY. BUY.. buy ....


    second.. if you dont have losses.. you arent pushing the envelope far enough.. and need many more plants ...


    crikey.. there is no perfection in the garden.. things live... and things die.. sometimes its your fault .... other times.. the plant just get old.. they dont live forever ...


    ken

  • Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
    Original Author
    12 months ago
    last modified: 12 months ago

    Laceyvail, my patrinias too just die. After they flower though. They grow nicely the first year, flower their second year and just die. Why isn’t this plant considered a biennial??

    Cecily, Yes the weather in the midatlantic this winter was less than ideal. No snow but tons of rain and freeze/thaw cycles. Is that really enough to kill a perennial? Thankfully my ajania isn’t on the death list. I’m at least excited to see them come back. Like your plants some of my perennials show new growth in the fall and stay like that all winter and its when that growth is killed the plant usually dies.

    Rp, I did the same with my seed grown perennials. I grew about 15 platycodons and 15 patrinias, 7 dracocephalum and I can only fit so much in my garden that I have so much leftover in pots that I have to take care of. I was thinking of selling it but then I feel like I need to save it in case I need to replace the ones I planted in the ground. I actually feel like I’m killing more plants now than when I first started gardening. Maybe it’s because of my new house I moved in couple years ago. Or yes maybe it’s because I am growing alot more plants including rare ones with the much bigger property I live in now. I also don’t know if these deaths attributed to the mass outbreak of my perennials suddenly wilting last year, which I’m sure all of you remember a million posts I made on it. At first I thought it was VW but everyone else disagreed. My perennials would wilt when they flower and only when they are in flower and eventually the whole plant dies back little by little. Those affected plants are actually emerging right now so it didn’t completely kill it it looks like. Any of you familiar with those symptoms? Sudden wilt occuring when plants flower and killing off stems little by little?

    Gotcha on the compost. I don’t have any heat but that sounds neat, wish I had that so I don’t have to take out my debris bin out to my driveway everytime for the town to pickup. Right now I just have a pile or leaves from last fall that I’m waiting to turn over.

    Ken, I actually don’t like to get into the habit of plant shopping sprees… its not economical and addictions never turn out well for me. A couple of plant replacements here and there is ok but to lose so many every year will make my garden look like a barren field. I know a garden is never complete but I at least would like to get it to the point where you see establishment with dense plantings with something flowering all season.

  • rosaprimula
    12 months ago

    Heya, same here with patrinias (punctiflora, gibbosa). Let's agree - this is a short-lived plant - no blame. I don't buy much because I can't easily get the plants I want unless I order small mail order plants...so I may as well grow them myself, which has the added advantage of starting as we are going to carry on.

    Yeah, we probably are killing more plants, Heruga, now we have a few years under our belts. I tend to try plants which are completely new to me and don't always pay as much attention to the plant's native soils and climate. So right now, I have seedlings which have very different needs indeed - hedysarums, penstemons and bigelowii, but also total finger-crossing plants such as trollius, ranunculus, persicaria...which all need a moister soil than mine. I tell myself I can make the necessary adjustments but...ya know...only human.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    12 months ago

    I once heard that you're not a real gardener until you have killed a plant three times.

  • Markay MD-Zone 7A (8A on new map)
    12 months ago

    Do you cut things back in the fall? In general, I find letting things stand until spring helps protect the crown of the plant from excess moisture and helps things overwinter.


    Every winter I lose a few plants. I expect this year to be worse than usual because of the many dramatic swings between mild temps and deep freezes which can absolutely kill perennials especially if you are pushing the limits of yiur hardiness zone as I often do. I used less protective mulch this year because I had issues with voles last winter. If you tug the crown and it lifts away, it could be something is eating your plants off at the roots over the winter.


    I guess my point is that it’s always something or other and some losses are to be expected.

  • cearbhaill (zone 6b Eastern Kentucky)
    12 months ago

    " Do you cut things back in the fall? "


    Some things yes and some things no.

    IMO you really have to research each plant individually, or at least a genus/family group. Things like daylilies cannot be stopped and those I cut back in the fall because that's when I have the most time.

    Other plants like mums and guara and agastache want their crowns left alone over the winter.


    Then you have the whole "winter interest" thing that many people care about- they will leave ornamental grasses and plants with 'attractive' seed pods etc. standing so they have something to look at.

    I personally do everything I can do in the fall- spring is so busy and so much to do- anything I can get done in the fall I'm going to do. My to-do list must have 50 items on it right now- wasting time cutting back things I could have done months ago isn't on my agenda, lol.

  • LaLennoxa 6a/b Hamilton ON
    12 months ago

    In general, I would say 99% of my perennials come back without fail. But I’ve gardened long enough in this space to now know the garden’s eccentricities. For example - and you’ll appreciate it because they are Japanese - about 8 years back I was OBSESSED with arisaema sikokianum, and planted about 8 of them for a showy display. Well, they all petered out within 3 years - except 1 which comes back faithfully as a reminder of what I could have had. Also, in my garden clematis thrives wherever I choose to put it - except in one area. In this particular area where I planted a clematis, it always comes up, and after a month gets clematis wilt, then dies back. It’s been doing this for the past 5 years. I find it strange - it starts to grow, then dies back a month later. A few feet away I have another variety growing healthy and happy!

  • Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
    Original Author
    12 months ago
    last modified: 12 months ago

    I leave the stems over winter for my perennials that I lost in the past that I cut back in the fall before and those plants have been surviving for me since. I did it because I thought the dead on the top would protect the crown from extreme cold temps, didn’t really think about the moisture factor but I suppose it does help so rain doesn’t just hit the crown directly. But I did end up cutting back the plants last fall that I noticed are dead now(salvia glabrescens, adenophora, a few lychnis seedlings, and some others). But I won’t know if thats what killed it. Not sure if the wilt outbreak that affected a large chunk of my garden may have caused my plants to lose vigor and just die overwinter. It could also be the temp swings we had this winter with no snow and plenty of rain. I don’t have voles yet, I know that for sure.

    I like to leave most things until late feb, early March(except my liriope, sweet flags, and carex morrowii-I cut them back late march) since fall is a very busy time for me in the garden between fall plantings, transplants, and leaf blowing. In march its not so crazy yet so I just do it then. I will cut back and remove the dead foliage off plants that had pests through the season so they don’t overwinter in the debris however.

  • Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
    Original Author
    12 months ago

    Lalennoxa, I know an arisaema expert and he says A. sikokianum is very hard to overwinter as they usually tend to rot from winter moisture. I grew A. mayebarae and they do the same thing so I started digging up the tubers and overwintering them in the fridge the past couple years but this year it is finally dead. Some just don’t make it whatever you do. But wow that’s strange about your clematis. I cant tell if its genetical problem or a disease or soil issue.

  • peren.all Zone 5a Ontario Canada
    12 months ago

    Heruga you mention many Maples near by. Are most of your losses in those areas? Maple roots are a bane to any gardener and they extend far beyond the crown of the tree(s).

  • Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
    Original Author
    12 months ago

    Yes but they are far enough and I dont encounter much roots and have no issues digging in my garden. None of my plants except my zingiber mioga suffered from the maples, the salvias bloomed wonderfully last year.

  • nicholsworth Z6 Indianapolis
    12 months ago

    I agree with the others..

    losing plants happens..

    it would be nice to know exactly why a plant died but sometimes we don’t..we did what we thought was the right thing right?..so why did it die?..

    rosaprimula..I remember you campanula!..

    fyi..my clearance campanula didn’t return last summer..