Yes, I certainly understand your motivation. If it didn't work for me, I would not be writing, as I am. I am a very inexperienced baker. Are you using SAF yeast? I ask because, I don't know yeast from a television, but, an experienced, respected, inspirational baker on the kitchens forum has recently discovered that red star yeast does not always work and SAF always does. So to give me every chance of success, I got SAF yeast. I love the smell, too. I keep th e yeast in the freezer. I am so inexperienced that I researched where to keep the yeast. This baker also only uses bottled spring water. I still use tap water. The authors say kosher salt. So I use kosher salt. And I bought King Arthur flour, because bakers whom I respect use KA flour. Just trying to increase my odds of success in this goofy adventure. Linnea, these are only my thoughts. I have been lucky with abin5. Happy and excited. If you think your flour may be the culprit in not achieving what you want, then think of solutions---change brands, further research the flour brand/water ratio. Good luck.

it is a moen assembly sorry I don't know the actual valve models--no paperwork on that from the original owners and the plumber took the info I used to order the part--the part I ordered/replaced was 1423 Balancing spool Moentrol maybe something like this for the two-head control http://www.moen.com/products/T4111ORB ours is oil-rubbed bronze and it is installed with the lever at the top and the pull-out valve under it which looks the opposite of the Moen site photo the info on the Moen site says that it should turn from 'full cold to full hot' but there are stops the plumber came back out and said that when he put in the balancing spool he had opened the hot stop all the way and that if he closed the cool stop that it would not do any good because the balancing spool would basically just reduce the flow of water to make sure the balance of hot/cold stayed the same... he said that there is movement underway to basically take the choice out of amount of hot water coming through faucets and showers--that safety of not burning/scalding people is overriding someone's desire to have a 'HOT' shower... when I asked about replacing the valve/lever with one that would swing right/left to allow me to regulate the balance of hot/cold... he said it would be too expensive to actually change the control to that type of fixture because we would have to open up the shower wall--take out tile--replace it... so we are basically stuck with either setting the water heater to higher temp because that will bring hotter water to the mix and will be expensive choice or just learning to live with it like it is I plan to take a shower in the two upstairs showers and see if their water is hotter than the one downstairs--- he said that the master shower is probably farther from the water heaters--and it might be farther than the other downstairs shower by just a little...which would influence the water temp at the head... both water heaters are upstairs and closer to those showers... it is just very frustrating to find out that something we really did not consider all that much would become so frustrating... I don't take long showers--and I don't use the big tub at all--don't consider that I waste water compared to larger families or people who take a 15 min shower...so this irks me to no end-- our old house with its old shower had wonderful hot water and I am really going to miss it... Here is a link that might be useful: shower valve

Success! After a long battle, we finally figured out the problem. It turns out, there was a bad check valve, near the recirculating pump that allowed the cold water to get into the system. the same check valve failed on both systems. We opened it up, and both of them were encrusted with calcium deposits and hard water debris not letting the valve close. Just for future reference to anybody with a similar problem here is how we tackled it: -We checked the dip tubes on both hot water heaters , and both of them were fine. -next, my plumbers isolated the hot water heater to make sure the heater was running properly. all checked out fine. -We turned off the radiant heat systems and bypassed them with the built-in valves. -My plumbers opened up each shower fixture and closed off the water valves to take those out of the equation. the hot water still ran cold. - Next, the plumbers removed the recirculating pump and checked the system. the water still ran cold. at this point it had to be the check valves, since nothing else would cause the cold water to come back into the system. - The plumbers then starting removing the check valves beginning with the one near the recirculating pump and discovered the broken valve. If this still didn't work, they would've kept going to check every check valve in the system(three total). the plumbers installed a temperature gauge to be able to see the change in water temperature. now the temperature holds solid and 120� when the hot water is turned on. I can't wait to take a piping hot long shower. Below is a picture of the plumbing system if you were curious. Two water heaters, one for each unit with the radiant heat manifolds. Radiant heat system by Warmfloors, Napa Ca Installation by AG Quality Plumbing San Francisco, CA(the best plumbers in San Francisco by far) Thanks all! Here is a link that might be useful:

Will be looking for someone to do a water test. Is there some kind of standard named test to be done, or is it a matter of identifying each parameter a la carte? The old water heater location to the left of the door can't be used because there is no drain available there. The heater will be wall mounted (right wall) about 12" away from the corner due to venting clearances from door, outside corner, eaves, gas meter, etc. We weren't originally planning on a softener so there was no space allotted for it in the original location. Also, that door wasn't supposed to be there originally and was planned to be on the wall to the right, and at slab level (another long story). So now, we have 16" between the steps and the wall to see if we can fit a softener. Otherwise, it'll have to encroach towards the parkable area. Luckily, we have about another 3' before the restricted zone. The gas line on the lower left will be removed. I forgot to ask him about whether he'll be teeing off the existing gas line at the ceiling or just running a separate line to the meter since it's very close behind that wall. It came up as an option to avoid recalculating loads. Also, the recirculation stub down by the platform will be removed and moved over to the other wall as well. I haven't found or heard anything about enclosing the heater. It will have in and out vents, spaced 2' apart, directly out the wall. Well, the output will turn right for 2' first, then go out. Due to the height, we weren't required to have vehicle protection. The plumber had reviewed the current plan with the city already, so hopefully no new surprises with this setup. Also, due to the planned position of the heater, it will be tight for him to tee off for a whole house bypass at the current location. We're going to have to deal with the softener rework later then since we just want this part done as quickly as possible to get in already, and we don't want to add costs to this work to complicate the responsibility since we want the architect and/or gc to be covering the cost of the current rework. BTW, the standpipe will tee right above that bend and he had the iron(?) tee and trap and it looked to be 4", but he said that a separate vent would not be needed and was ok'd by the city.