Front loader *with* ample water
Andrea
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Andrea
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life expectancy for front loaders/top loaders?
Comments (39)Deborah, Not sure if you are asking for a recommendation or not from your post. I have a 3 year old Speed Queen top loader. Very happy with it. Out of warranty 3 months now...fingers crossed all stays in a state of bliss for years to come. Be forewarned though, Speed Queen has two model lines of TL washers now. You would want what is being referred to as the "classic" line. The other model line swishes the clothes a little bit (my salads see more agitation than clothes in those washers), unlike a classic style SQ washer which gives a rather intense agitation through the cycle. A little too much agitation for our needs to be honest, but ranch apparel needs a beating like that. So far, my washer is built like a tank and has not had an issue to date with anything I've put in it. I do take pillows to the laundromat, but that is because pillows want to float at the top of a TL and I put them through the triple load sized Speed Queen front loaders so they get a better wash (IMO). For note, SQ does make a fine front loading washing machine if you were interested in that. I can't speak to whether it could handle your soils, but something tells me it could based on a few videos I've seen of it in action....See MoreNeed help - new front loader not cleaning that well
Comments (30)I did all of the typical Internet research before replacing my twelve year old Sears top loading washer and matching dryer. I was tired of a dryer that took twice as long as the washer to complete a cycle---laundry room backup. I had heard all sorts of rumors about the front loaders not getting clothes clean, bad smelling clothes, mold, mildew, repair issues and so on. After narrowing it down to LG, Whirlpool and Bosch, I went with the Whirlpool Duet washer and dryer in the 9200 series. In that brand we are talking a level below the top price point. I am confident that Bosch and LG make fine machines. LG Electronics, a South Korean company has been making front loading washers for decades. Front loaders are typical in the rest of the world---only in America do we see so many top loaders. Remember: the very first automatic washers were front loaders. The more you pay, the more cycles and features you get. There is a point of diminishing returns not to mention the fact that more gadgets can mean more things to go wrong. One name manufacturer has a dispenser system which you fill with detergent and bleach and it dispenses the stuff through multiple loads. A technician who services that brand informed me that the feature is---from a repair call perspective---a weak link in an otherwise fine piece of equipment. After decades of doing so, we all think we know how to wash clothes. The most important thing I can recommend is to READ THE OPERATORS MANUAL! Secondly, do some research and if the sales person doesnt seem to know what he is talking about, go somewhere else. Ask whoever you buy from if they actually set up the machines or just drop them off in your laundry room. If they dont level the machines, hand them a level and make sure they do so, which leads me to vibration. These machines spin at a very high RPM; 1,000 RPM is very typical while the top of the line LG machines (Tromm) spin at 1,320 which is why the clothes come out nearly dry and dry so quickly in the dryer. Mounted on a concrete floor or modern trussed floor, leveled, spaced a couple of inches apart and without the pedestals, the vibration during the spin cycle will not be an issue---these machines are remarkably quiet. Each variable you add will increase vibration. On solid flooring even with the pedestals if all else is equal, the noise and vibration factor should still be less than typical top loaders. However, on wood flooring, on a upper story in an older structure with an unbalanced load, on pedestals, unleveled and too close together---the darn thing is going too shake the house. Several manufacturers make machines specifically for upper stories with lower spin speeds. HE detergent is not an option---it is a mandate! Simply using less regular detergent doesnt work. In fact, if you read the HE detergent label it indicates that you should use barely a quarter to a third of a cap for normal loads. A friend who services appliances told me to use even less than the detergent maker recommends. More detergent will not get your clothes cleaner in a front loader. Suds from conventional detergents will ultimately screw up the machine, not get your clothes clean and drastically extend the wash cycle and your energy usage because the machine has to enter a SUD cycle to get rid of the excess suds. If you use the minimum recommended detergent for most loads the HE is not more expensive than convention detergent of the same brand---it may well end up being less expensive. Cheer, Gain and Tide are all available in HE and more are being added. Many service techs recommend powdered HE detergent over the liquids and claim that powders dont leave the film that most liquids do---which forms a basis for mold growth. I cant personally attest to it but it seems to make some sense. If you use powder, you can add Borateam or Oxyclean to the dispenser with the powdered detergent. If you stick with the liquids, any powdered additives should be placed in the bottom of the drum before adding the clothes. Throw away your fabric softener! It gunks up machines worse than any other additive---it has wax in it for gosh sake! It makes towels less absorbent. It leaves a film on the outer drum that you can get to to clean. If you have hard water, consider buying Calgon Water Softener available in the supermarket and adding it to the rinse water. You might also consider adding some 20 Mule Team Borax or Borateam either with the detergent if you use a powder or in the bottom of the drum if you use a liquid detergent. Front loaders have to seal completely or the water will leak out---unlike top loaders. That means that the interior stays damp after you close the door. Leaving the door ajar for an hour or so after you remove the load will help it dry out completely---leaving it cracked open all the time makes even more sense. Consider keeping a spray bottle of something like Sams Clubs OdoBan and a rag next to the washer and wipe off the seal periodically---to include underneath and the front lip which faces inward. If your machine has a machine cleaning cycle, run it as recommended. The newer machines tend to have this cycle and it specifically jets water around and under the seal to clean and sanitize it thoroughly. If you start getting excessively long wash cycles or fault codes, it is possible that someone didnt empty their pockets and something is clogging the pump filter which also tend to preclude complete drainage and add to the potential mold and mildew issue. If you are going to spend two to three grand for a washer dryer pair, seriously consider a service contract---$120/unit for five years in my case but you can often negotiate these down with the salesman. The average service call to clean out that filter is $115. If you are handy and confident, you can unplug the machine, remove three torq or hex screws on a bottom panel and do this task in a couple of minutes. I would not buy any brand in which this pump filter is not "reasonably" accessible. If you have a service contract, then they will handle the task but you may have a deductible. Very cold water doesnt wash clothes very well; at 60 degrees Fahrenheit and below, detergents just dont emulsify as they should. Many front loaders have an internal water heater so that even if you select cold wash, it will heat the water just enough to make it work with detergent. This is a very valuable feature in ensuring proper detergent dispersion and helping prevent mildew. The typical front loader uses a quarter of the water that a top loader does. If you are using cold water to save money, youve already save 75% of the cost of heating water for a load. Warm water will always wash better than cold. Mold and mildew: if you leave a wet load of clothes in a front loader overnight or all day while you are at work, you are asking for mildew problems. Its a sealed container; unless the clothes have been sterilized or at least sanitized, the drum---and clothes---will grow mold and mildew. Use the delayed wash feature available on many machines---most will tell approximately how long the cycle will take---so that the wash cycle ends right before you leave the house or come home. Follow the recommendations in the manual for proper loading and mixing of items. Put your baby socks and thongs in mesh bags---they end up in the pump filter too easily. As with any washer, full loads are preferable but front loaders dont typically handle very small loads as well as top loaders. If you need to do a small load, consider throwing in a couple of those designer towels that have been hanging in the bathroom for who knows how long. If your family insists on throwing their wet towels on the floor or shoving them in the bottom of a hamper, you are going to start with mold and mildew problems. Molds, yeasts and mildews are very hard to get rid of once they start to grow. Short of very hot water and chorine bleach---over multiple cycles---you are fighting a lost cause. Are front loaders "harder" on clothes than top loader/agitator machines? The opposite should be true. One measure of how much of a beating your laundry is taking is the amount of lint that collects in the dryer lint filter when you wash a relatively new, predominantly cotton item. Occasionally I buy 100% cotton rags (terry) to use around the house and in the garage. I always wash them thoroughly before I use them to get all of the starch and chemicals out. Two dozen of these relatively low end, imported rags used to throw of so much lint after a full cycle in my top loader that I had to clean the lint filter several times during the initial drying cycle. The first time I did a load of new rags in the front loader I was astounded at how little lint buildup there was. I used to be in the hospital bedding and apparel business and have visited numerous fabric mills---you dont even want to know what it takes, chemical wise, to produce a sheet, towel or item of apparel. You really want to get that stuff out of the fabric before it touches your body. I digress---back to the smelly towels and such. You can try Oxyclean, OdoBan or Borateam---or all three---but on fancy, designer towels you probably wont be willing to risk either Chlorine bleach or super heated water. Drying them occasionally outside in the bright sun helps. Using soft water or a liquid water softener (Calgon ) may help. Getting all of the fabric softener residue out of the towels will certainly help. Drying them completely is essential, particularly with heavy towels. If your towels are smelly indicating the existence of mold, yeast or mildew, you may not notice it when you take them out of the dryer but probably will the first time you use them and get them damp. It is easier to prevent the mold and such than it is to eliminate it. If youve already got it, it will probably take several cycles to get rid of it. Another approach might be to explain to family and guests that the designer towels are just for show. Go to Costco or Sams and buy pure white, hotel grade towels, bathmats and washcloths. Theyre really not expensive---and they are made to be washed in institutional laundries at very high temperature with both peroxide and chlorine based bleaches at high concentrations. Run them through the washer on the highest temperature possible, often called a sanitize setting. Washer technology had improved dramatically in the last decade---dryer technology really hasnt changed much. If you have gas, consider using it instead of electric; the dryers cost fifty to a hundred dollars more but in many---not all---parts of the country gas is cheaper than electricity so you will recoup the difference fairly quickly. You should be able to get information from your utility company, from a local appliance service or on line regarding the cost differential. If you live in an area where electricity is produced using coal, than electric may be break even or even cheaper. If you live in the southwest or Texas, natural gas is generally more cost effective. A couple of companies make hybrids---top loading without the agitator---but there seem to be issues with those machines either in design---or in the fact that people dont know how to use them. In summary, assuming you can reeducate your family, the most important things you can do to prevent mold and mildew in a front loader and the resulting smelly clothes are: Read the manual. Leave the door ajar long enough for the drum to air out or anytime the washer is idle. Use HE detergent only. Stop using fabric softener. Run the machine cleaning cycle as recommended. If your machine doesnt have one, run a regular cycle with hot water and bleach---no detergent---periodically, at least once a month or more often if you do a lot of laundry. Dont leave wet clothes in the washer all day or all night. Follow the loading recommendations. If you have hard water and dont want to/cant install a water softener try using Calgon , Borateam or even baking soda in the wash water. Vinegar (white, pretty cheap by the gallon) can be an effective fungicide but its going to take more than a tablespoon; try it instead of softener in the rinse cycle. Havent tried the idea of using some powdered, enzyme based dishwashing detergent to clean the front loading washer but it makes sense. I called my friend who services all sorts of appliances and he indicated that he even recommends it even though the manual doesnt. There is also a commercial product available on line at www.smellywasher.com that many repair techs seem to endorse. By the way, if you prefer scent free HE detergent I know Tide has one---not sure who else does. We love our Whirlpool Duet front loader washer and dryer. Laundry room backup is a thing of the past. Comforters that used to take two hours to dry are dry in under thirty minutes. The clothes are really clean. Our electric bill has gone down. There is less lint in the dryer vent---because the clothes arent getting as beat up as they did by that center agitator on a conventional top loader. They are both remarkably quiet but making the switch requires some reeducation. When I read complaints from people who wont read the manual, wont allow the drum to dry after each use, refuse to use the right detergent and cant be bothered to perform a few seconds of preventative cleaning and maintenance, I throw up my hands in frustration. If that is you---dont buy a front loader! I dont want to sound like a commercial but no matter what other detergents I try---because they are on sale or whatever---I always end up back with what my mother and grand mother used---Tide. I made the switch to liquids a few years---smaller package, easier to measure, less spillage but also too easy to use too much! Based on what I have read and heard from several appliance techs, Im switching back to powder because I believe it works better in front loaders and cause far less film buildup than liquid. Also you can add powdered additives---Borax, Oxyclean, washing soda, baking soda---with them in the dispenser....See MoreWhy top loaders are better than front loaders
Comments (13)angelic_one2002, although around here suggesting a TL is better than a FL can be fightin' words for a few forumers, one use is hardly a fair test, upon which it's fair to condemn an entire design of a system, don't you agree? One thing of which I'm convinced: Changing from a TL to a FL requires a learning curve to know how to use them properly. Frankly, that's one of the hesitations I have about switching to a FL. I don't do that many loads and by the time I really give it a fair test, learn how to use it correctly and get the experience and most importantly, get the dosing down for my water, I wouldn't be able to return it if it were bad. Hey, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get me! :) I think there's other reasons to not like or want to consider a FL, for me a big negative is the low front opening. Physically, for me, that will be a challenge. I'd need a pedestal and that increases the cost substantially. I don't really understand the spray rinses on the F&P machines and the low water rinses on the FL, but I do accept that it's an old basic design that works for many. But I'm not going to condemn what I don't understand and haven't learned to use. No offense intended, so don't take this wrong, but your credibility is called into question when you say something like this, just like the other end of the pendulum seen so often where people claim that TL users are walking around in stinky, filthy clothes. I like to think that I'm fairly impartial. I own a TL but am seriously considering a FL when (and if!) replacement time comes. There's advantages and yes, disadvantages to each type too. You need to weigh your priorities to get the best machine for your needs and that requires reason and rational thinking. No lecture intended....See MoreI'm in love...with my new LG Top Loader!!!!
Comments (10)Mike, Yes, you can add water to a regular cycle, and then add even more if you want to (great for bulky items). I don't know how much it adds; the manual doesn't say, but next time I do it, I'll watch and get back to you. Good suggestion with the surge protector. I'll mention it to my DH. We've had issues with our old electronic Kenmore and error codes. Usually, when there's a lighting storm, I unplug my W/D (advice from the Sears guy from years past)....See MoreAndrea
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