Lord luv a duck.....isn't this about the third (or maybe more) repeat of this discussion in the last three or four years? Hey Rob - glad to see you still around. Looks like you haven't killed too many brain cells with your unvented heater.... :o) Nathan - love your postings. Don't see you carrying a lot of baggage or prejudice into them, but do see you using common sense together with a scientific way of thinking. I have come to realize (through experience) that common sense is sometimes left at the road side by some people the higher their level of formal education is. As to your statement of "Tradesmen often suggest what they are comfortable with, what they've used...", can also sometimes be tied to what company (brand) gives them the best "goodies". Same holds true with the (usually) new meds doctors prescribe so freely. stressbaby - Evidently you are in the medical field. Now, I agree scientific evidence is very important, but so is common sense. Let's be realistic - the scientific evidence collected by the experts (and I have come to use that term loosely, especially when talking about some governmental agencies) which was generated by the studies on the safety of Vioxx for human consumption really didn't amount to diddly squat, did it! Now, before you become unhinged on me, don't you think that rather than continuing to label unvented heaters as unsafe and undesirable, you might want to work on the statement you made, namely "If it has not already been done, we need a way to accumulate data on the safety of these heaters in hobby greenhouses...we need a way to obtain level II evidence of their safety." I'm sure that people on this site that have vented and unvented heaters would be more than willing to share their experiences in a poll (and no, probably none of us are scientists, but I'm sure we can make "common sense" observations as to the color of flame, odor, plant growth or lack of, did the heater continuously refuse to burn, etc.). Of course I understand we would not be able to do "double blind" studies, but hey, some attempt to collect and interpret data is better than continual *itching and holier than thou attitudes that have on occasion invaded discussion of this particularly volatile subject, don't you think. I'm sure you are quite capable of coming up with questions that could be answered by all of us in a manner that would lead to measurable data. Then, we could just point to the data collection and interpretation of same whenever this question comes up! Actually, it could probably be posted in the FAQ area. That, quite honestly, would be great. cuestaroble - I read the information on the site you gave the link to, and although it stated problems, it also stated correcting measures to take none of them were drastic, and most of them were what ghse owners already have in place. And, of course the plants mentioned showing the damage (tobacco and tomatoes) are two very sensitive plants. Sometimes looking at tomatoes with the head tilted wrong causes them to have problems :o)...just joking, but you know what I mean - they really are sensitive, especially at their early growth stages. stressbaby, I've had a few of those patients in CCU/MICU who had taken Vioxx, and my husband was taking it before his MI. I'm an RN and a small commercial grower. Mary

November 27, 2020 WSJ Some 53 million people in the U.S. likely had had Covid-19 by the end of September, according to a modeling estimate from researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Roughly 6.9 million infections had been confirmed within that time period, suggesting that roughly one in every eight cases was identified. January 15, 2021 The CDC estimated 83.1 million total infections or about 25% of the population. We're in the third week of February and the doses per 100 people is somewhere between 18 & 19. Given that some % of those doses are second doses, let's say that something around 12% of the population has been vaccinated. Which puts us somewhere around 37% of the population with immunity to Covid. We are currently vaxxing at a rate of almost 1.5 million people per day. So, roughly, every 3 days, we are adding 1-1.5% of the population to the immunized status. Over the next 37 days (April 1), we will add another est. 12% of the population to the immunized category (at the rate of 1% every three days). 37 + 12 = 49% of population. Plus however many people get immunity via infection between now & then. At that point we will have put a major dent in the ability of the virus to spread because of increased immunity in the population and broken chains of transmission. Which should make it easier to contact & trace. Theoretically. Add in the upcoming availability of the one dose J & J vax, we may be able to ramp up the # of people immunized per day. The bad news is that J&J won't be able to deliver a huge amount of doses. Last week, Jeffrey Zients, the White House's Coronavirus Response Coordinator, said only a "few million" doses will be available upon FDA authorization and that the government is working with the company to speed deliveries. We have good news & reasons to be cautiously optimistic. We also have reasons to be pessimistic. People like Jenny McCarthy, RFKennedy and his anti-vaxxer organization--Children's Health Defense organization and a host of other 'celebrities'. I tried to find out how many members CHD has, unsuccessfully. Who knows how many there are and if their action/ non action will be sufficient to derail ever reaching true herd immunity. Then toss in the ultra left wing & ultra right wing nutcases who think the vaccine is going to cause them to go blind or sterile or result in their offspring resembling Martians... Plus the just plain stupid. Add 'em up & that's going to be a lot of people. Heaven help us!

For great info, though not perfectly reduced for a lay audience, Eric Topol's Twitter feed is a good source of info on variants, Covid recovery, global trends, etc. From Wiki: Eric Jeffrey Topol (born 1954) is an American cardiologist, scientist, and author. He is the founder and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute,[1] a professor of Molecular Medicine at The Scripps Research Institute, and a senior consultant at the Division of Cardiovascular Diseases at Scripps Clinic in La Jolla, California. He is editor-in-chief of Medscape and theheart.org. He has published three bestseller books on the future of medicine.[2] The Creative Destruction of Medicine (2010), The Patient Will See You Now(2015), and Deep Medicine: How Artificial Intelligence Can Make Healthcare Human Again(2019). He was also commissioned by the UK 2018–2019 to lead planning for the National Health Service's future workforce, integrating genomics, digital medicine, and artificial intelligence. In 2016, Topol was awarded a US$207 million grant from the National Institutes of Healthto lead a significant part of the Precision Medicine Initiative (All of Us Research Program), a one million American prospective research program.[3] This is in addition to his role as principal investigator for a US$35 million grant from the National Institutes of Health to promote innovation in medicine and the education and career training of future medical researchers. https://twitter.com/EricTopol?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

So, you cannot be honest and think it is strange it is apparently spreading amongst those vaccinated? In our area I would say "spreading" is not true. We have some new cases, but not a large number. Some are attributed to a variant. We knew in the beginning the vaccine was not 100% and that there could be new variants pop up which could cause problems. Here they are talking about more children coming down with Covid, but thankfully, for the most part, they are not getting seriously ill. Still, some parents are worried about children heading back to school soon. Was that your assumption when you took the vaccine? I think most people thought the vaccine was 90% in NOT getting Covid at all, therefore having immunity. No that was not my assumption nor was it the assumption of most people I talked to about covid and the vaccine. If you researched, listened to the CDC and the local health department(s), it was always said that the vaccine was 90-something percent effective in preventing serious cases/hospitalization. That has worked! Our hospitalization is down dramatically! Also, you can get those numbers from the hospitals directly, not just the media. I remember when my dad was hospitalized last October and my sister and I were so worried about him being in the hospital while Covid was present. We watched the numbers in that particular hospital start at 2 and slowly rise, never very high while dad was there. Weeks later, it was near 200 in that one hospital. Numbers are back down although there are a few covid cases in that hospital. The county health departments report the death numbers, which at present are in the single digits. I will say that we had a church member pass away last week from Covid. An older woman and her husband both contracted Covid, as did one of their grandsons. The older couple have health issues and live in an area of their daughter's home. Not sure who of the three first contracted it. I'm also not sure if the lady who died was vaccinated as she had several health issues and she may have been cautioned in being vaccinated. Her husband has been well enough to be home, other than a short period after being told of her death (he went into shock). The grandson (teen) has been the least sick of the three. I am not a shopper and other than our recent trip and a couple of antique stores in surrounding cities, I have avoided shopping. We do eat out but mostly still aim for less than peak times. I am still doing grocery pick-up although I will go occasionally to pick up meat and to the small produce market. Basically what I am saying is we are living pretty much back to normal, but taking precautions. It is rare to see a place require a mask but many businesses have signs on the door that say mask suggested or something similar. I kept a bag of masks with us on our trip and we still have them in our vehicles, etc. in case they are needed.