I'm a pretty avid Maria Killam fan, but even I know she is offering guidelines, meant to help people avoid the big mistakes. I like what you are describing for cabinets, trim and floors, but with a white quartz, I would not do the marble backsplash.

Even Maria Killam sometimes points out how a colorful backsplash might be just the right thing to do: after all, it's far less expensive to change out a backsplash than to paint the cabinets or change the countertops, and I'm sure I've heard her say that. Why not choose a backsplash that has the colors you're looking for in it, but maybe just not an actual marble?

Or, perhaps the marble you are choosing will look just fine with the quartz, since it's planned to be so "quiet". Most folks here recommend (and I agree, it's what I would do) to put in your lighting, counters, cabinets and everything else, and take your time deciding on a backsplash. Getting the color and pattern and choice is important, since it's a vertical surface and far more noticeable. So why rush? Easy enough to choose later.

Back up. Back up. Back up.

The very first thing you do, is get to a stone yard. One with quartz, marble and quartzite etc

You take your time picking the counter top material.

If you are set on quartz? There are a zillion from which to choose.

Once decided? You select the specific WHITE for your cabinetry and trim.

Your backsplash is a decision you delay. Until when? Until the cabinets, the tops and flooring are all installed.

Get thee to the stone yard. : )

As to marble ? It doesn't stain, it etches. That's a fact. But it has been used in kitchens. on floors, for centuries. Does any quartz really look like marble? No. : )

But if you are after a soft warm veining, realistic? I have used "Fantasy" and God help me if I can remember if it is Mont. It is wonderful with oak, wonderful with white, and wonderful with warm green. I'll come back with that later. : ) It is also fantastic with Cloe tile .....square and all its hues of white within a white mix.

No matter.....your first decision is top, and a very good sample of it IN YOUR HANDS when the decision is made.

Read the multiple postings on Houzz about water staining issues with quartzite before your make your counter choice.

Mont "Fantasy"!

I would very strongly suggest you see if you can find a large sample and source near you.

Of all the many quartz? This is very subtle. In fact, it is the only one that doesn't make my cabinet gal kd barf. ( she hates quartz )

You will get the pale warm shades of beige in the white, and I will say again it is beautiful with white, oak, greens. Lovely with warm brass accents as well. Looks great with Benjamin Moore "Chantilly Lace"

I'm sorry, but if you truly want "timeless" then you go for the marble countertops. This is a material that has been used for thousands of years. When visiting Rome we took a daytrip to Ostia Antiqua where the remains of an old port city have been excavated. There was a 2000 year old tavern kitchen with, guess what, marble countertops.

I have a kitchen with marble and soapstone countertops. Personally I don't think marble is the hot mess that so many here portray it to be. Get real. How often will your countertops be absolutely bare with no cooking equipment, paperwork, bowls, groceries etc. on them? Maybe you live like every minute is a potential photo shoot with everything spotless, pristine and not a thing sitting on the counters so a few etches would drive you nuts. That's not me, and I suspect it isn't most of us.

I like Maria Killam but agree that her principles are sort of like "for dummies" guide for an average homeowner who is not working with a design professional and doesn't have the ability to coordinate lots of different finishes. So I wouldn't treat it as the gospel. But if you are concerned about cost of replacing something you don't love, the order of magnitude of cost for floors, cabinets and counters are vastly higher than backsplash. So those are the finishes I'd choose first and be certain you're in love with.

I am no fan of Maria Killam. Her guidelines are too formulatic. (is that a word?)

And like Jan said, you pick your countertops first. Then floors and then cabinets. Backsplash last and if you don't have a good eye, you wait until the other elements are in before picking the backsplash.

Also realize, today's timeless, is tomorrow's dated.

DO NOT make any choice on your backsplash until all your other elements are installed and finished. I did not pick my backsplash until 5 months after I moved in. I had collected lots of samples before we moved in and even more after we moved in! My builder's tile guy then came back and finished the backsplash.

If you builder says he can't do that, then tell him to remove the backsplash from the project and just give you finished walls and you will do the backsplash later on.

Before the kitchen was done, I was positive I was going with this Sonoma Dahlia tile:

After I moved in, lived with the kitchen and had furniture in place, I ended up with this Jeffrey Court marble mosaic:

This forum would have mostly voted for the first, but I would not have been happy with a to the ceiling wall of backsplash that just read as one color, similar to subway tile. My kitchen is large, but mostly plain with white stacked cabinets and pale/calm Taj Mahal quartzite. The geometric marble mosaic is the main element.

I like Maria and even took her color class before I started building, but I tend to find her designs a bit flat and missing depth/layers/uniqueness, based on my style preferences. I didn't really learn anything I didn't already know in her class ... just made me realize that I was happy with my process and end results and I should continue trusting my choices. I did buy her paint boards and those have been very useful and I have added to them with other Samplize samples.

"you pick your countertops first. Then floors"

@cpartist - I usually agree with your comments, but on this one, I think that you pick floors first. That is because floors usually take up the most area, including often the adjacent rooms and halls, and therefore has a large visual presence, even moreso because it is horizontal. If the floors are also going into adjacent rooms and halls, you need them to be neutral enough to go with sofas, chairs, rugs, and window treatments. I think that the OP's choice of "medium brown stained white oak flooring" fits that criterion. Floors are also more difficult to change out than counters. For all those reasons, I think you pick floors first, then either counters or cabinets depending on which of counters or cabinets you have a very strong preference for.

Backsplash should definitely be chosen last, and is best chosen after everything in the kitchen is installed. @svanflicka - wait until everything is installed; you will be amazed at how different the kitchen will look and how that affects your choice of backsplash. Do not let either the designers or your contractor pressure you into choosing the backsplash before everything else is installed (we have seen that pressure reported on this forum many times). It is fine to wait a while to install the backsplash, then you can hire on your own a tile installer if need be. They do a better job anyway than the GC's tile installer because someone you hire who's entire job is tile installation has the best expertise.

@cpartist Haha, but you don't need the help with color because you are an actual artist!!

I think timeless is best played when the space suits your house. I am not familiar with this designer and her philosophy. I just think that "timeless" in a victorian would be very different than a mid century modern home.

I also strongly feel that when every element is timeless, there often isn't any of your own personality. I love seeing whimsical lights and colorful backsplashes, bolder colors and great runners.

As far as your tile, I do agree with others - get a counter selected ( or if you have a tile you love, then get a sample and go to the yard ) .

Enjoy the process, don't stress over it.

Good luck

@cpartist Haha, but you don't need the help with color because you are an actual artist!!

That's a fair comment! Rules /formulas are useful ... and an artist probably knows best when it's appropriate to break those rules, whereas most of us just need to stick to them.

Lets back up shall we?

Post a picture of the existing kitchen and living spaces you are "refreshing"

Post your cabinetry plan..or if simply painting existing? No need.......

Lots of purists will say do marble! Okay...... but the kitchen isn't all brand new and what cabinets by the way?

Get off the Marie Killam site. It's no different than believing every HGTV show with Joanna Gaines.

It's your kitchen...... nobody else's. Post a few images of kitchens you would DIE to have - commonly known as inspo pictures. : )

And please stop obsessing on a backsplash - and if you want "timeless"? Do Not Take It To The Ceiling.

It's a kitchen, not a Sauna. Not a bathroom either.

I agree that classic is relative, but I have to LOL at the notion that white marble will be dated anytime soon. It's been used as a countertop material for, what, a thousand years? Can't say the same for shiny speckly granite.

I think MK can get a bit narrowly focused and bossy, but she brings up some interesting points.

I like Maria and even took her color class before I started building, but I tend to find her designs a bit flat and missing depth/layers/uniqueness, based on my style preferences.

I think she's uber-focused on the color white, and she specializes (whether she uses that word or not) in simple, calm designs ... which she claims are "timeless".

I usually agree with your comments, but on this one, I think that you pick floors first.

As long as the two items coordinate, doesn't matter which you pick first.

Floors are also more difficult to change out than counters.

Floors are pretty much the most difficult thing in a house to change, so -- yeah -- they're a good thing to keep simple, medium, basic. Let other things be your stars.

I just think that "timeless" in a victorian would be very different than a mid century modern home.

That's not "timeless"; that's fitting the material to the house's style -- but the concept is correct.

Get off the Marie Killam site. It's no different than believing every HGTV show with Joanna Gaines.

No, read her site, watch HGTV, then form your own thoughts about finishes.

Post a few images of kitchens you would DIE to have - commonly known as inspo pictures. : )

Pulling a dozen pictures from Pinterest, then analyzing them to see what details attracted you is a great way to decide what you really like.

I have to LOL at the notion that white marble will be dated anytime soon. It's been used as a countertop material for, what, a thousand years?

Eh, no. Marble was a popular material about a thousand years ago -- hyperbole is obvious -- then it disappeared from residential kitchens for about 900 years before reappearing again.

I think MK can get a bit narrowly focused and bossy, but she brings up some interesting points.

Agree, but we are all capable of sifting through to find the things we do like.

After settling on the function of a space, my approach is to first decide what look/feel/style you like. Then figure out what combination of materials, colors and patterns will give you in reality what is in your head.

When it comes to a kitchen, I think you choose flooring, cabinets and counter top in tandem to see what works together. If you're using a cabinet manufacturer that has a limited number of standard colors/finishes, you might want to choose that first and then see what c-tops and floor work. Or if you fall in love with a stone or other c-top material, then you work from there. If there is an existing floor, or a floor in an adjacent room that you want to continue, you might start there. I don't think there's one starting point for all rooms.

I do agree that the backsplash can wait until everything else is in-unless you're using the same material on the c-top as the backsplash. And wall paint color is usually last, since there are literally thousands of pre-mixed paint colors to choose from.

Regarding Maria Killam, she's a pro at marketing and merchandising her ideas and products, but I wouldn't follow her advice on color. She's way off-base, especially as regards neutrals, which are the most difficult colors to blend. And there was a discussion recently that depicted her as quite difficult to deal with, to put it nicely.

"I'm guessing you haven't been to Europe recently."

"@HU-918119203" - and I'm guessing you prefer to write something cryptic rather than anything helpful. Many countries in Europe have kitchens that tend to be minimal and modular because they usually move with the homeowner's other things when the homeowner moves. Though there are 45 or so countries in Europe, so no way to know to which of those your were referring, or really what point you were trying to make vis-à-vis this thread.

"you pick your countertops first. Then floors"

@cpartist - I usually agree with your comments, but on this one, I think that you pick floors first. That is because floors usually take up the most area, including often the adjacent rooms and halls, and therefore has a large visual presence, even moreso because it is horizontal. If the floors are also going into adjacent rooms and halls, you need them to be neutral enough to go with sofas, chairs, rugs, and window treatments. I think that the OP's choice of "medium brown stained white oak flooring" fits that criterion. Floors are also more difficult to change out than counters. For all those reasons, I think you pick floors first, then either counters or cabinets depending on which of counters or cabinets you have a very strong preference for.

The reason I said choose the countertop first is because flooring is usually more neutral and will tend to most times go with more things.

Of course there are "timeless" choices you can make...marble, subway tile (N Y and Boston subway walls in the later 1800's), still going strong. or marble tile for a back splash to blend in with the marble counters.

https://www.houzz.com/magazine/8-elements-of-classic-kitchen-style-stsetivw-vs~1353248

Maria Killam gives great advice for those not working with a designer. But I disagree with her white on white on white on white philosophy, especially that quartz alone is timeless. Even within quartz itself, the popular patterns have changed over the years. Her guide to choosing neutrals is great though. You are working with two designers, why hem them in by making them follow Maria?

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful and very helpful responses! I really appreciate your time and help with this project.

Here are some photos of my kitchen which opens into a 15' x 29' living room that runs perpendicular to the kitchen/dining area. The flooring will be replaced with white oak solid hardwood, ideally stained in the medium brown family, the countertops and sink will be replaced, the cabinets repainted and fitted with new hardware, the backsplash replace, lighting replaced, new dining chairs, and new counter stools.

The island will be painted, probably a contrasting color. The appliances will be replaced. The woodwork/baseboards will be repainted, ideally a clearer white than the current BM Vanilla Ice Cream. A new wood range hood will be installed and stained to work with the floor. The upper cabinets will be removed above the range. This is where the backsplash may run higher, as the range hood will go to the ceiling.

I've lived with the dark brown countertops for 16 years, and I'm ready for something lighter and brighter. All walls everywhere will be repainted.

Note that the same solid hardwood white oak flooring will also be installed in the living room. A board-and-batten wainscoting will be installed in the living room to around 2/3 of the wall height. We have a fireplace in the living room on the same end as the kitchen/dining room that will be overmortared and a new mantle beam installed and stained like the range hood. All living room furniture will be replaced. The living room has many windows. This is the rough concept so far.

As you can see, the living room and kitchen/dining room are connected and quite open to one another:

Some design elements and choices under consideration from our designers:

Some great takeaways from the things you've shared are to not rush this process and allow the decisions to evolve in stages beginning with the flooring and countertops.

I agree in theory that the backsplash should be chosen last, and I definitely will not make the final decision about the BS until everything else is installed; however, it would be helpful if I could at least decide whether or not the backsplash will be marble because if it's not, that opens up the possibility for a bit more busy-ness with the countertop pattern/look. If I use marble for the backsplash, I would stick to very plain countertops without much movement in the design at all.

@JAN MOYER, I agree that I need to select a countertop to start this process. I love marble. It's just not as durable as some materials. I'm no expert, but it is my understanding that some stains on marble can only be removed by a professional. It's timeless and has been used for centuries. I'm just not sure I'll be happy with the etching, potential chipping, and hypervigilance marble requires. Stains/scratches/etching probably won't have the same appeal in my newish suburban home as in an old-world setting. I have a messy but endearing husband, adult son with autism who lives with us, a poodle, and two cats, the latter two of which like to jump up on the countertops, especially when I'm not looking! But I love marble. It is just gorgeous. I'm going to keep an open mind that it's a possibility but I need to understand more about it. I thought perhaps I could incorporate marble into the backsplash, but feedback on that idea has been largley negative here. The Mont Fantasy is beautiful I really like it! I'm not sure I can get it here in northern Wisconsin. I typed in my zip code on the website and was initially excited only to learn that the location was within a reasonable driving distance but only if I can drive straight across Lake Michigan. I'm going to call there tomorrow to see if there are options for working with their materials. It's hard to hear that people feel like barfing over quartz when that may be the most practical option for me and probably many others. The cabinets will be repainted and fitted with new hardware versus replaced. I definitely need inspo! Do you have suggestions where to look for more ideas? I love the photos you posted. The first one is in the realm of what I'm considering, though my preference is for less red in the hardwood floor stain. What is the countertop material in that photo - island and perimeter?

@lindyhopper25, I have indeed read the many posts and complaints about water stains on quartzite here. That's quite discouraging. I checked out a Taj Mahal slab, and it's just darker and more brown than I really want the countertops. I've been living with dark brown countertops for 16 years, and I'm ready for a change.

@julieste, I haven't ruled out marble. It is the most gorgeous material, in my opinion anyway. Its long history is not lost on me. I just don't know if the etches and stains will be as endearing to me in my newish home compared to a 2000-year-old tavern in Rome. I'm keeping an open mind for now and not closing the door on marble.

@HU-918119203, I agree that MK's advice is helpful for people working without a designer and that the backsplash is much more easily updated down the line than other elements. Great thoughts!

@cpartist- Thanks for your thoughts. MK is very formulaic and quite inflexible with her advice. She doesn't like to mix whites, though I've seen this done successfully on some design sites.

@chispa - Good advice, and I'll wait 'til the end on the backsplash. I would love to see photos of your finished kitchen. It sounds beautiful. Love the marble mosaic.

@Mrs Pete - Great point that not much is totally timeless. Regarding the "harvest gold" comment in the context of marble, were you only referencing quartz with a marble pattern or marble also?

I think I'm still stuck on the countertop material, and that's where I'm going to focus my efforts. If anyone can talk to me about marble versus quartz versus quartzite, please share. I love the look of marble but not the issues with its durability. I viewed a video about a kitchen makeover that used marble for the countertops and the homeowner said she won't even set her keys on her marble countertop. Quartz is durable but apparently tacky/inferior and shouldn't be mixed with marble, and quartzite, though more durable than marble, can get watermarks. Also, quartzite seems to be darker and busier than what I had envisioned. I did see a quartzite slab called Silver Moon that was very pretty, but definitely darker/grayer/busier than where my train of thought was going.

Thanks again, everyone!

Since you are going that far with your project, did you look into redesigning the kitchen? What condition are your cabinets in? You could improve your layout possibly and have it set up to how you would like it. Just make sure you don't regret not looking into that option before making your final decisions.

Also, I'm not sure why everyone is so against an engineered stone countertop with a marble backsplash. If it matches nicely, what's the problem?

Here are a few pictures ( I am pretty sure these are marble splashes - the counters are definitely engineered stone since the pics came from their website ) :

Good luck with everything!

Scope creep is real. Why not drop back and do nothing for a bit. What really needs changing? Nothing.

@JAN MOYER, I called Mont, and their nearest locations are Indianapolis or Grand Rapids (both over 6 hours away). We would have to get a local fabricator/company to handle the shipping. Really loving the Fantasy Quartz:

The rep said it's their best seller.

Do you know of any other options?

Thanks again for your time and help.

IMO 6 posts on the same space is just truly a PITA. Now we all , including you, need to go on a hunt for every comment.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting, Why are you so challenged to communicate respectfully?

Stone yards usually will truck. You may have to pay some serious bucks that distance. Maybe a nice 8 x 11 chunk of a remnant sample first......and a fed x fee. : ). It's pretty darn consistent between slabs.

Before any of that ? Ask a local source IF they can order a slab for you. ...from Mont.

I think your original approach was sensible. I think you could safely choose either counter material you wanted them a simple backsplash. You may find it safer to have a different pattern than subway, because it was a bit over-done for awhile. Also, you may want to choose a tile with subtly varied whites to blend with your cabinets and counter colors. It can be really jarring to pair whites. Suddenly one white looks yellow sometimes. Your designers can help.

Question: what is the orange wall color in a couple kitchen pictures you posted? It could be perfect for someone on a different post.

K L, thanks for sharing your thoughts especially about the challenges of coordinating whites. The wall color is SW Flower Pot matched in BM paint.

Raimondi, thanks for sharing your thoughts. A change in wall color will definitely make a big difference. I hired one design company that is run by two designers who are partners. They work together on all their projects. I didn't hire two different businesses. The kitchen needs some attention because we had a water leak and the hardwood flooring needs to be replaced. Also, our sink and faucets failed, and because the laminate countertop is damaged, it needs replacement as well. We wish to replace it with something more durable like quartz which also necessitates the backsplash be replaced. It's been a bit of a domino effect. I'm going to slow down and take some more time to make decisions, as you said.

And there was a discussion recently that depicted her as quite difficult to deal with, to put it nicely.

She does give off that vibe.

If I use marble for the backsplash, I would stick to very plain countertops without much movement in the design at all.

Since Maria K is a topic of conversation, one thing she says that I do like is: Stick to simple. It may look bland today, but it won't look "old" tomorrow.
She doesn't like to mix whites, though I've seen this done successfully on some design sites.

An all white room is not easy to "get right". And cheap white looks cheap.

Great point that not much is totally timeless. Regarding the "harvest gold" comment in the context of marble, were you only referencing quartz with a marble pattern or marble also?

All marble. Anything that's a mega-trend today will be "harvest gold" tomorrow ... or maybe the next day. Of course, I really don't like marble ... it looks old and cold to my eye. I definitely gravitate towards warm tones.

I think just stat by priming the red walls.

Prime your red walls with a pale gray; it'll cover better than stark white.

Marble isn't a mega-trend. Fake plastic marble is.

Marble is beautiful.

There is a thread here where cooks of Indian descent talk about how they prevent stains from saffron and turmeric, etc. with marble counters.

But can you use marble as a backsplash in back of a range top and or an oven?

I don't know.

@svanflicka maybe you can fing a subway tile from the marble you use as in one picture in this article. https://www.carraramarble.com/blog/what-is-the-difference-between-carrara-and-calacatta-marble/#:~:text=Calacatta Marble is whiter background,as well as less expensive.

I like your thinking behind choosing Calcutta. What tiles do your designers recommend for the backsplash? Maybe a herringbone pattern would be uplifting.