Oh my gosh, WOW, what a lovely bunch of sunbeams came into my life. Thank you batya, terrene,& butterfly4u. Thank you so much for your kind words. As you restated, fabric softener was never going to be my new soil treatment of choice. It was an experiment, a trial to see if I could make a task easier. I am a problem solver by nature. I am always looking for solutions to all kinds of things. I'm willing to as was said, think out of the box. I think I colored out of the lines also as a kid. Maybe I need to start a new thread "Aleve for your Garden". I have made the effort to take two Aleve prior to heading outside to do any chores and if I've worked fairly hard, when I come in, I immediately get into a hot bath with epsom salts, soak for awhile till I'm sure my muscles are thoroughly warmed. At bedtime I take two more Aleve and find that in the morning I can move with no pain or very little. If I've worked extra hard, I do give myself a break the following day. I had just read an article about Jane Fonda keeping in shape but she does the the Aleve in the a.m. & p.m. maybe I could and should also give it a try. My finger joints don't hurt nearly as much and I think the swelling has gone down, my knees are better also, my low back is better also so that I don't walk hunched over while working outside. I really have paid a toll with my body, pushing too hard for too long but maybe I've found a bit of relief. Batya, when this subdivision was first built 21 yrs ago, one of the first in the So CA High Desert, everyone poured up through the pass into this open area w/clean air, dazzling blue skies and AFFORDABLE housing. All of the new homes had huge green lawns in front. All these crazy So Calif people started planting their petunias, carnations, impatiens, azales, etc. We all poured water on everything like we did when we lived BELOW in LA, OC, & Riverside counties. Then we went through a summer, then a winter and everything was wiped out. Few of us have tried to learn about the soil. Some have kept their lawns but they are chemical lawns, they haven't seen any steer manure, or natural anything since they were planted. The water rates are going to bring everyone to their knees soon. My in-laws lived in Elgin,IL & had a lush acre w/forest, gorgeous. Butterfly4u, I will give your RoundUp method a whirl. The thing about RUp is that once it hits the ground, it is nuetralized and is no longer effective so I'm a little confused but since you were willing to give me an understanding nod, I certainly can reciprocate and try it out. I hope to get back to Charleston & Savannah to walk the two cities thoroughly. Terrene, your right, I could have tried the baby shampoo, dog shampoo, Castille soap, virtually anything that creates "slip". When I was thinking my idea through, I wanted the most bang for my buck and fabric softener struck me as truly concentrated with slip properties, although as I think about it, hair conditioner is right up their also. Wonder if I would have created such a stir if I had used hair conditioner, I bet not cuz it doesn't seem SO chemical and a whole lot of people use it daily. Yet chemically I bet fabric softener & hair conditioner are very close in chemical makeup. Hmmmm, interesting. Oh I must share that as I was overturning the soil and pulling out the roots of bermuda, I found a nice long worm. I'm sure I heard him say something about "never smelling so good..." My meadow idea, actually came from High Country Gardens catalog and as I look at their picture, I see they are calling it a Western Prairie. I have a horseshoe shape of turf area, it's not planted, just named. It is apprx 4000 sq ft. The back portion I'm thinking would be planted in HCG native grasses for the high desert and I'd mix in wild flower seed that is natural to the area also. The garden was designed by Dan Johnson as a short grass Cottonwood Garden displayed at Denver Botanic Gardens. It uses Legacy buffalo grass, and Hachita Blue Gramma grass. To that is added Mirablis, Oenothera, Callirhoe, Sporobolus. They also add Asclepias, Dales, Artemisia, & Schizachyrium. You can see it online at HCG's website. I still have the large planting areas or rooms as I call them and like you Batya, I know I must give up my flower filled garden idea but I have found at Annie's Annuals.com several flowers that will make it here. She does a great job of finding the species that are truly resiliant, not the big box flowers that don't stand a chance in our environment. The good news is that I ran all over the backyard gathering twigs, branches, dried weeds, anything I could find and raked them altogether and have been putting them through my shredder, then spreading it in the planter beds. Wow, I put what seemed like a lot through the shredder and got kind of a pitiful pile but I'll keep at it and I do have a compost pile though due to the dryness, it takes a good amount of supervision. I also started looking for anything that could be used as cover for some of the more obnoxious weeds so they will die out. I will likely need to water here and there to loosen the soil to pull some weeds but I can sit on a garden stool to do that. I have a very bad habit of bending over at the waist which is the worst thing anyone can do. My knees are both injured from a car accident several years ago so I really hate to bend them and getting up isn't pretty. So kids, I am trying to be resourceful while the weather is cool. Our winters the last 2 years have been long, into May but this year I'm thinking we may see a warming much earlier. The jury is still out. So I need to be very busy while I can work outside. Is it just CA or have you all seen the dramatic rise in the cost of steer manure, compost and other amendments? Geez. One question: I was reading about Soil Sulphur, the organic kind and thinking that it sure sounds like just the ticket for this very alkaline soil. Anyone ever used it? Gypsum is what is talked most about at this forum but it is very, very slow and takes forever to work. Why wouldn't I add either the sprayed on liquid or pellets. It is immediatley available to the soil, breaks it up, makes it much more difficult for weeds to set in and gives plants a fighting chance. I don't expect to get my soil to a nuetral ph but if I could lower the alkalinity some, it would make a big difference. I searched for sulphur & soil sulphur on this sight but nothing showed up. I suppose I could pose the question here and watch the fur fly or get beat into the ground again. Sometimes I don't understand why many people get upset if a quicker way is suggested to improve soil other than dropping leaves, twigs, compost (self made)only. Again thank you so much for the kind words. I do appreciate it. Batya, I would love to hear about your moving to Israel from Chicago. Mary

sshrivastava: I always enjoy reading your posts as you have gone into great detail about your own situations in the past and I've totally enjoyed reading about them and have taken some of your advice in the past, particularly about using less detergent; I have cut back but then went back up when things weren't coming out clean or smelling too fresh. I've been all over the scale as far as detergent dosage but it didn't seem to make much difference. ArliVie: I read the post the other day about using a hairbrush to soften/fluff up the towels. I was curious about that one, so I got out a clean hairbrush that's I found had never been used and tried it on a hand towel which was rough and stiff and all and was shocked as how fluffy/soft it became. Very interesting idea and most unique. I don't know if I could do it for 8 full size towels as my arm might fall off - LOL Anyway, it was a fun experience; I must have been bored or something ;-)

@vala55, it sounds to me like someone is "confused". Your statement makes me think of the Basic H2 product. What they say is that it makes "water wetter". This is how most surfactants work. Surfactants lower the surface tension of a liquid. This allows the product to clean better. Unfortunately a major problem with MLM is anybody can sign up and they don't have to be the sharpest knife in the drawer (I'm being polite here) so crazy things get said and done. I take huge issue with people who post misinformation. As for the quality, everyone is entitled to their opinion but mine is different than yours. I have nothing to gain here by my statements I just really enjoy the Shaklee products that I do use. Shaklee is the number 1 nutritional company in the US and they've been around for 50 years. They must be doing something right. Using their cleaning products is more about choosing products that are safer and greener as well as supporting a company who "gives back" (ie. off sets carbon emissions, plants one million trees, donates supplements to disaster victims, etc ...). No one said they would work better than what you've been using all your life. They are "better" choices that work. If you choose to support P&G, Reckitt, whomever with your money - that's your choice. Maybe making better choices isn't important to you so you cannot justify spending a little more ... I don't know. Maybe you do make greener choices but find cheaper "green" brands work for you ... who knows. You have not really said what products you are comparing to. In fact, you haven't even commented on whether you have used the exact product being discussed in this thread. I have used it (as has the original poster). It sounds to me like maybe you take issue with a MLM business. In which case, that's your prerogative but please don't post misinformation.

Hello all! It's been awhile since I started this thread, but we've finally got it all installed, and it all works! I talked to all the regular water people again and the thought of paying $3500. or more compared to $1100. helped me decide. We called the crazy Texans, but it's OK, we're from OK, so in a pinch we can translate Texan-as long as there are no football or basketball games the same week. We purchased a water softener and a RO with a larger RO membrane, an extra tank, and a permate pump. It does make some noise, but not any louder than the icemaker. I love the icemaker! It's wonderful! Nice clear tiny little ice cubes, no odor! Perfection! We did have a few minor problems and questions installing, but those guys were ALWAYS willing talk to us, and the minor error on the order was immediately solved with a simple phone call. No questions asked! Thank you Texans! I couldn't be happier. Thanks to all who offered help and insight, it was truly appreciated! Thanks for your time and expertise! law5115