"Hippolyte" and "The Bishop"

last year

I would love any and all information you have to give on these beauties, please and thank you! Bloom length, fragrance, habit, etc. Blackspot is no issue here.

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portlandmysteryrose

last year

last modified: last year

Hi, Magpie. You are a rose gardener after my own purple Gallica heart! I am thrilled that you are considering trying more Gallicas in your garden. High five! I think that they will all grow well for you, and honestly, after 3 decades of putting my hands in the dirt and enjoying all kinds of amazing roses, Gallicas are still my favorites. Just remember to slice the suckers as needed, and if you ever grow him, keep Charles de Mills contained. He's absolutely breathtaking but an arrogant bully.

I don't grow The Bishop, but I think Hippolyte is going to be a winner. Mine came from Burlington. It's still a baby but already exquisitely beautiful! It doen't seem very prickly; in fact, I find the young canes to be pretty darn smooth. I expect Hippolyte to grow into a taller Gallica-- eventually 5-6 footish range with moderate annual pruning. So far, disease resistance is very good. Others may have more blackspot or mildew pressure than you, so I am mentioning health. There are blackspot spores lurking everwhere around here, but Hippolyte has been clean with zero later season mildew. My baby's blooms showed potential for stayng power, and I expect lots of blooms and a typical Gallica stretch of bloom for around 4 weeks. HMF says Hippolyte is lightly scented, and maybe my nose is just tuned in to Gallicas, but I heartily beg to differ! Delicious and 4/5 on the strong scent scale for me. For the record, I also find Ellen Tofflemire to be very fragrant, another 4/5 even though HMF says lightly fragrant for her, too. I am REALLY looking forward to (read "beyond ecastatically excited about") growing Hippolyte in my garden! I have a spot all picked out and am just waiting for her to grow up enough for planting. 2022 photo of my potted baby below. Hippolyte is actually quite a bit more purple than this pic. Phone camera.... Carol

Comments (17)

Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
Carol, I'm so glad you commented! And so glad to hear that Hippolyte is more than lightly fragrant for you at least, because that was the one feature I read about it that disappointed me. I'm trying out some roses of deeper colors. I'm usually all about the pastels, and I did buy a few lighter roses this winter (Morgengruss, Lilian Gibson, City of York) but I was so enamored by the more saturated color of my Laguna last year that I bought a few darker roses, too (Desiree Parmentier, William Lobb, Paul Ricault). But like always, I was peeking at my garden beds today thinking "okay, maybe I have room for ONE more..." and I've been flirting with those two all winter. They are both out of stock at my usual nursery, though maybe I can persuade them to find one extra in the back... Lol.

You inspired my previous purchases of "Indigo" and "Great Maiden's Blush" and my one gallica "Henri Fouquier" and I expect to see the first blooms this season! I'm sure I'll be so excited, I might @ you with a photo the very second I get one!
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Oooh! This is so nice to see all the new suggestions on my old post! Luanne - your Dark Lady looks way better than mine ever has. Lovely. And that Chateau de Clos Vougeot is stunning. I'll have to look it up and see how hardy it is. Kaylah - that Bleu Magenta from Mottisfont Abbey is inspiring. Wow!!! It was fun to review a thread that I must have missed from last winter. LionHeart - sounds like your experience with Angel Face was very much like mine. It's such a beautiful rose but in the long run I'm glad I got rid of mine. Robert - The Bishop has been on my wish list for a long time. If I can ever find one available I will have to get it! The Black Prince sounds nice too. I think I saw that one on the Northland Rosarium website. It could be a nice possibility too. Your whole list is outstanding!! Oh Night Owl. I so wish I could get something like that to grow in my climate without heavy winter protection. I just can't picture myself trying to tie up and wrestle all the canes to the ground each winter. Sounds like a death wish! Thanks again for all the suggestions. I hope others are finding some good ones too. I should also update that my Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres died this spring :( But this summer I purchased Purple Buttons, Basye's Purple, Blue Skies, and Indigo to add to my purple collection. I was also very surprised when my little WS2000 grew a couple nice canes and has shown me some gorgeous dark red to dark purple blooms. I'm so glad he decided to grow!
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If I'm remembering certain things correctly, and if I understood what I read in the first place, the history of what is commonly called 'Hippolyte', is even more confused than that of 'Reine de Violettes'. There was something about the rose that was being called 'Alice Vena' turning out to the same as a 'Hippolyte' imported from Europe, and who knows why they had the names they had in the first place... and currently 'Alice Vena' isn't at all the same rose as 'Hippolyte' and doesn't seem to be the same 'Alice Vena' as was described in that article, and the word 'thornless' is conspicuous by its absence in any of this. It is good to keep in the back of your head that in the mid-20th century, when most Eastern found roses went into circulation, that they didn't tend to use study names, but very badly wanted to connect historical names with living roses. It started with Mrs. Keays, who was dealing with a distinctive enough set of roses that she could get away with it, but when it wandered off to the cold climate once-bloomers, things got hairy. The contemporary descriptions of so many of these roses are practically identical. Gertrude Jekyll, who knew and understood roses, had Village Maid and Rosa Mundi hopelessly confused. You won't confuse photographs of those two, but the written descriptions are a different matter.
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lkayetwvz5, I am surprised that you do not find gallicas fragrant. I know that different noses react differently to scent. I grow 36 varieties and they are all well-scented. Their scent is different from the damasks with their sweet and powdery scent and different again from the moderns that often have a hint of lemon and other fruits, pepper and other spices, etc. Some Austin roses smell of musk, not a smell I like. Many but not all of my gallicas are purple. One favourite is Cosimo Ridolfi: But there are purple roses in other classes, too. L'Éveque and Tour de Malakoff are two purple centifolias.
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mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
last year
The Bishop proliferates fairly badly for me. Unlike with Desiree Parmentier, which also shares that fault, stopping the fertilizer hasn't solved the problem. Aside from that, it is fairly tall, lanky and awkward.

I had Hippolyte for many years until it was choked out by Chloris. It was a very mannerly spreader, with a nice compact growth habit. It was my preferred rose for rose petal jam because the colors and flavor were impressive.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
portlandmysteryrose
last year
last modified: last year
@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b), I'd love to see photos of your first blooms! Those 3 will produce gorgeouser and gorgeouser flowers each year. I'm really excited to see HF's blooms! Not many rose gardeners grow him. I caved and bought a William Lobb, too. Ha, ha. Great minds? I wanted to grow him again just to see and smell those luscious mauve blooms. He's a classic! At some point, I may have to rehome him. He'll outgrow his pot. I applaud your adding some darker roses into the pastel mix. I find that my sweet pinks, blushes and whites shine all the more with sultry companions.

Given what @mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY) shared, it sounds like Hippolyte might be a better choice than The Bishop. The Bishop may be more of a large collection rose. If I had the space, I'd grow every Gallica I could get my garden-gloved hands on. Alas...teeny, tiny real estate. @mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY), it's good to know that Hippolyte is a more mannerly spreader! Fewer strays to spy and pluck from my overcrowded beds. Thank you for the info! Carol
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked portlandmysteryrose
User
last year
I grow and absolutely LOVE Hippolye, so much I wanted to buy another but couldn't find one in stock, but I have a cutting coming along that I hope has rooted. The color is so incredibly beautiful! For me, he is acting like a climber - see attached (not great) photo of him on an arch with Paul Transom (he's the dark purple, needless to say).

I do have The Bishop, too. He's new to me, so I can't really comment - he had his first bloom last spring, which was very beautiful and, as I recall, on the early side of the rose season (Hippolyte comes at prime time). The plant seems vigorous, even in the somewhat shady spot I have it.

I love gallicas! I too have a new William Lobb, so can't make much comment, and agree that Chales de Mills is thuggish - but gorgeous. For me, honestly, La Belle Sultane is a worse thug, however, though I still love her.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked User
User
last year
The problem with 'The Bishop' is that there are many roses in distribution under that name, so without knowing which rose you get, its impossible to give an opinion on it.

If you look at the photo entries on HMF for 'The Bishop', you will see that there are at least five different roses illustrated among them. (I spotted "Rush Gallica" among them) You could receive any one of a number of roses when buying this one. I myself have two roses acxquired under this name, and neither resembles any of the ones photographed on HMF.

'Hippolyte' on the other hand is an excellent rose, and distinctive enough that it rarely (if ever) is misidentified in commerce.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked User
portlandmysteryrose
last year
last modified: last year
"The Bishop"

Great info from @User as always!

When the name is framed in double quotation marks in the Vintage Gardens catalog, that is a sure heads up. My limited bed space plus the ongoing identity confusion has stopped me from collecting "The Bishop", but if I had the room and the time, I'd likely try to acquire and compare all, one from every available provenance, out of sheer curiosity.

@User, you and I are antique rose soul mates! I could live in bliss in your garden of romantic perfection.

Carol
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked portlandmysteryrose
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
last year
Thank you Paul and Carol, I guess I'll steer clear of The Bishop, then. I'll just cross my fingers that I get some nice purple-y tones out of my William Lobb and Indigo. WL is getting planted next to Great Maiden's Blush, so I'm hoping for a beautiful harmony there.
portlandmysteryrose
last year
last modified: last year
@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) Wm Lobb is a wonderful old Moss! A thorny guy but VERY fragrant, rich and royal and velvety in color and a true classic. I think you will enjoy him, and he is going to look stunning next to Maiden's Blush--a brilliant combo! I have no business growing WL in a pot, but I desperately want him in my life again for awhile. If you wish to try another purple Gallica, I'd boldly recommend Hippolyte even though mine is still young. Francis' photo is charming! I adore my Ellen Tofflemire, too! Such a kaleidoscope of deep pink-mauve-violet! Both of these Gallicas are mannerly to my knowledge/in my experience. Tuscany Superb is very lightly fragrant but still my favorite rose ever. I swoon at its feet every spring. :-) Carol
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked portlandmysteryrose
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
last year
@portlandmysteryrose Do you think William Lobb could be trained (with heavy gloves!) into fanning out flat against a fence? That's my plan and I'm hoping to hear that it's possible 🤞 Good luck with the container growing, I can't wait to see your photos! :) I do want to try Hippolyte (and Mrs. John Laing eventually), I sure have no business buying more roses (I bought 9 more this year and they are getting SQUEEZED in somewhere) so it's probably for the best that they're currently out of stock. But next season when they are restocked, fair game haha. I shoveled a few roses this year that didn't make the cut, I'm trying to be ruthless about roses that I am not in love with. Too many to try and not enough room, the perpetual problem.
User
last year

'Hippolyte', originally from Pickering Nurseries.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked User
portlandmysteryrose
last year
Gorgeous, @User! My Hippolyte aspires to grow up and become your photo. Carol
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked portlandmysteryrose
portlandmysteryrose
last year
@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) How's CO? This is my front garden today after a sudden storm in Portland, OR. (Insert shock faced emoji.) Carol
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked portlandmysteryrose
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
last year
@portlandmysteryrose Your snow picture is so beautiful! Much of the same here, yesterday we got about 5" of snow and it went down to -8°F. This winter has been very cold and snowy here, I've hardly seen the ground in my garden in many months, it's been buried under ice and snow since some time in November. I'm pretty desperate for spring to come around by now 😅
erasmus_gw
last year
That's a pretty picture of The Bishop. Looks pretty cold in Portland! We've had a mild Jan and Feb. My plant of The Bishop was acquired in a trade with Robert in VA. I don't know where his came from. I find that it is a vigorous plant and think the growth is a bit angular and awkward also. It is a fairly healthy rose. I think I've lost my Hippolyte. It was a smaller plant here.

The Bishop is the pinkish purplish rose in the middle.

I have not noticed it proliferating.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked erasmus_gw
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
last year
A baby band of "Hippolyte" came home with me today! Yayyyyy so excited
portlandmysteryrose
last year
@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) Woo-hoo! I think you're going to be very happy with Hippolyte. I could not stop visiting my baby Burlington Gallica's first bloom last spring-early summer. I suspect Hippolyte may become one of my absolute favorite roses. We can watch our babies grow up together. Ha, ha! Carol
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked portlandmysteryrose