@Charles Ross Homes - ty too for comments --- i am learning from everyone about plus and minus of hybrid systems

Credit where credit is due, Ray. Your post was equal parts misinformation and entertainment. I imagined your trade school instructor handing out a thermodynamics coloring book by Dr. Seuss (I'm guessing it might have been "Hot Heat, Cold Heat, New Heat, Old Heat." There might have been a picture of the Cat-in-the-Hat driving a contraption and collecting packages of waste heat to be carried away. Keep those cards and letters coming.

ETA: Ray's comment was apparently deleted.

Ray,

You've confused the thermodynamic efficiency of an HVAC system with economics. A wood stove is less thermodynamically efficient than a high-efficiency gas furnace, but it's cheaper to operate if you've got a pile of free wood in your backyard but need to buy your natural gas.

ETA: Ray's comment was apparently deleted.

we never selected HEAT PUMP only as a HEAT mode

@Steve Hurwitz

In my prior comment, I was asking if furnace only mode (no heat pump) was tried before installing the new thermostat and wiring.

Without knowing your gas and electricity rates, you don't know if using the heat pump would save any money on heating costs. If the calculations shows there is no savings, or the savings is very small, then I don't see the need to invest in any more money on trying to fix the communication problem.

@Austin Air Companie@Charles Ross Homes -- seems you two are developing a nice relationship.----

i need to update all --

on thursday eve at 9 45 pm -- the system FAULTED once again thought it was only in GAS FURNACE as the heat source ONLY. Thereore my plan is NOT valid. OUCH!

we travel alot and we need a reliable / stable heating system.

I need some advice if i happen to go the route of replacing the HVAC system:

a) my house has forded hot air heat. right now the heat pump acts as the AC unit too

b) if i want to replace the system how do i get heat and AC without A heat pump. i just want a reliable system even if it is NOT at the top of the efficiency pyramis.

c) issue is eveything has to connect to the same vent system in my home.

d) how can we heat and AC the house with a less complex system that wont have to communicate or am i dreaming??

Hi, Steve,

You've got a hybrid system which is a great system in climate zones where both heating and air conditioning are needed and the heating season is sufficiently long or winter temperatures are low enough to warrant a gas furnace in lieu of heat strips. I don't think you should have to replace a 12-year old system because of a control problem. I suggest you discuss with your service provider options for simplifying the control.

@Charles Ross Homes - i will do that -- will see him monday am

It is unfortunate you are still getting the same fault error. It seemed you had isolated the problem.

Charles Ross Homes makes a good suggetion. It is possible to wire the Carrier Infinity control board with a conventional thermostat. You would loose the 2-way communication, but you would also no longer have a communication error fault. I would want the HVAC tech to do all the diagnostic tests first before changing any more parts. The control boad may be the problem. If that is the case, then changing thermostats again is likely not going to be the solution.

If I was doing the diagnosis, I would bring an oscilloscope to look at all the signal levels. The DC level voltage measurements are a necessary, but not sufficient to find problems like this.

If you are going to install an conventional thermostat, you will need more than the 4 wires the Infinity controller requires. Do you know how many wires are in the new shielded wire bundle?

Master mike is right. The encoders and receivers for the RS485 serial interface Carrier uses can be bypassed on the infinity control board by using the conventional thermostat connections on the board. The rs485 is great dealing with electrical noise interference but prone to loss of communication with unbalanced A and B signals. OK, they replaced the wire but maybe the problem isn't in the wires but in a encoder/receiver integrated on the board, or a simple capacitor which heats up during use and eventually wears out over time. It could be anything such as a dust bridge eventually dropping out the signals from the processor the encoder must transmit. Who knows, but the service provider doesn't.

The circuit boards condition should be confirmed as good before spending more money on another missed diagnosis, and agree 100% with Klem1. Checking the circuit boards for evidence of heat related issues would be my first step, and If the problem is the circuit board the wires were good, along with the new wires. So the present communicating protocol should not be scraped. Long ago in my early days of troubleshooting electronic failures it was down to the individual component on a board, but they've become black boxes cheaper to replace than repair, but a failed board needs to be confirmed.

If the OP would be so kind as to give the model number of both the heat pump and furnace it would be helpful. A few of us do know how to read and understand technical manuals, schematics. wiring diagrams and ladders.

Steve,

If you rewire the machine this way as suggested by Mike you will change the performance of the machine.

The money you spend rewiring with shielded cable, new thermostat etc are then unnecessary expenses. You will then need a new analog thermostat that will cripple the machine.

Carrier Infinity are typically 5 speed in AC mode -- while AC mode may not matter much to you now I'm gonna guess and say it will in the summer. Converting back to 24v analog interface will turn this machine into a glorified 2 speed unit. (If the unit you have now is true Infinity like I think it is.)

If there was an easy way out of this situation I would have told you long before now.

Each way has it's own set of pros and cons.

The OP's immediate need is for reliable heat. They're content to have that supplied by the gas furnace. A gas furnace doesn't require the same complicated control system as the heat pump to provide reliable heat. Once the OP has a reliable heating system, they can take their time evaluating other options including repair vs. replacement. If their current service contractor can't troubleshoot the system to determine whether they've got a wiring problem, and charges them $1,500 to "experiment," I'd be looking elsewhere for service.

If the new wire bundle has at least 6 wires, then replacing the Infinity thermostat with a non-communicating programmable (Honeywell, Nest, Ecobee, etc) thercomstat should not be difficult. That's my opinion as a homeowner living in NJ with no HVAC school training. It is not ideal and I would never recommend doing this for a new installation. However this is what installers do when they don't want to spend the extra money on an Infinity or Evolution thermostat.

The furnace and the heat pump were manufactured approx 12 years ago,

If we get the model numbers we will know how many stages the furnace and heat pump support. We should also be able to find the Carrier installation document to show how to wire the thermostat and what settings have to be changed on the control board. My guess the furnace is the 58MVC 3-stage furnace which was available in 2011. I don't think the Carrier Greenspeed was available in all markets in this time period. If is not a Greenspeed model then it could be a 2-stage or possibly one stage heat pump.

@Charles Ross Homes -- ty always --

1) carrier doesnt service their own... they has service providers whom are certified.

2) the original installer has never cqlled me back -- i have left multiple messages

3) in Northwest connecticut i have contacted CARRIER authorized HVAC companies -- few want to make the drive. below was one doagnosos from one Carrier authorized technician:

one tech came from one of the CERTIFIED companies and said i has WIFI issues. the wifi has nothing to do with the system -- it communicated betweem the INFINITY touch thermostat and my phone. PS -- i had fault ssues well before i had the smart thermostat. this left me with little confidence

of course carrier itself has offered little supplort

one Certified supplier about indicated that the drive was too far.... i offered to pay for drive time.

oh well --- the original installer should be willing to diagnose but he will not even return calls

Did you find those model numbers?

@kevin9408 i will look tonite - ty for folowup

Greetings, Houzz Forum! Here’s the latest update, for those forum participants who continue to help us on this troubleshooting journey…

This morning we met with our HVAC contractor, and took him through the various suggestions that you have made on this forum. He was very receptive. We came up with a 3-step gameplan:

1. Low hanging fruit: connect new wire to ground at the furnace
2. Low hanging fruit: test voltages as described in the “Failure to Communicate” article, https://www.mingledorffs.com/a-failure-to-communicate/ , to see if the control board is the problem. If so, consider replacing the control board and see if this resolves the comm fault.
3. If there is still a fault after implementing steps 1&2 above, another decision point:
   a) Disconnect the zone 2 smart sensor thermostat, and set up the system as a 1-zone system, using the main thermostat as the control. By letting the house run on 1 zone, this will narrow down the comm error, eliminating the second floor smart sensor thermostat as a variable – which will tell us if the fault is being created by the zone board.
   b) Weigh the expense of above (est. $2-3K) against the cost of installing a new more traditional system (est. $20K+) with parts and labor under warranty for 10 years. Cost factors that add to this step, after the 1-zone system diagnostics are available, include replacing the zone board, and upgrading wiring back to a 2-zone system, which is advisable for comfort.

UPDATE: Steps 1 &2 were actually implemented today. Our technician connected the new wire to ground at the furnace, which was suggested here and he felt it couldn’t hurt. Then he did the voltage test, using the article “Failure to Communicate” article as a guide, https://www.mingledorffs.com/a-failure-to-communicate/ , with telltale diagnostic results.

I’m not sure I’m summarizing his results correctly, below, but his recommendation based on this voltage test is to replace the indoor control board.

(Diagnostic detail: With the wires connected, the voltage was too low, dropping down to 3.2 … without the wires connected, the voltage ranged between 4.5 and 4.1 --not sure my notes are correct … apologies for any mistakes on reported voltage results).

According to our HVAC contractor, these voltage results are not inside Carrier’s specifications. Therefore, he will provide an estimate to replace the control board – He also points out that even replacing the control board will not guarantee that the comm fault will be solved, as it could reoccur due to something else in the system. However, he is willing to credit this work against a new system should it come to that.

So to summarize: best case, we will change the control board and it works – no more comms errors. Worst case, it doesn’t work, at which point we may continue to troubleshoot future comms error by bypassing the 2nd zone thermostat … or just decide to scrap this system and go with a new one.

Our goal is to have a reliable heating system before next winter! Thank you all for your advice to this point.

As always, interested in any feedback you care to provide.

PS -- model numbers as Kevin requested:

HEAT PUMP: Serial # 25HPA548H0031010

FURNACE: model 58MVC, serial # 0511A032

According to our HVAC contractor, these voltage results are not inside Carrier’s specifications. Therefore, he will provide an estimate to replace the control board – He also points out that even replacing the control board will not guarantee that the comm fault will be solved, as it could reoccur due to something else in the system.

Hi Rhonda,

Sounds like you been busy. Yes with what your HVAC contractor said about replacing the control board. There is never any guarantee of anything. If one part is old enough to have a problem like this.. the whole system is.

I've dealt with many of these communications issues around 8 years ago from systems I installed myself. When they work they work great, but once the down hill starts -- pain in the neck. Not only for me, also the customer who has to deal with these sorts of things. Luckily the number of communicating systems aren't that many. But manufacturers haven't learned anything they just keep churning out more and more of this kind of guaranteed broken garbage.

You and others probably know the check engine light on a car. The yellow / orange light of death? no. The car can keep on going. You should get it checked, if you live in a state that does state inspections, it will probably fail that test. --- Compared to a communicating HVAC? no. You get a comm fault (check engine light) the system will stop dead in it's tracks.

This HVAC system was designed to be operated via a communicating signal. --- If I had to fashion a guess the zone system probably wouldn't work with a traditional analog of the shelf 24v thermostat. So probably have the cost of taking the zone set up out of the configuration to convert this over to traditional 24v thermostat anyway. Then suffer the additional consequences of a crippled system with a traditional T-stat installed.

--------------------- Rant on ----------------

Most of those telling you to do things here, just make more and more work for me. Because they don't actually work on these things. They find little snippits here and there on the web / make excuses / regurgitate nonsense because what others do to cut costs --- whatever it's all myth and fairy tale land.

Then the builder tells you to worry about the furnace now, when it's hard enough for you to get people out to where you live now. Thinking nothing about the inconvenience you're dealing with. Let's not imagine how uncomfortable it will be in the throes of summer, when your contractor will be more busy most likely. (People that don't do service work, don't think about anything like this... it's all purple farts and unicorn confetti -- your expense and anguish.)

The chase for blue collar work they can't do / don't do... why they are after this low hanging fruit is beyond me? The logic I continue to question in my mind over and over. Maybe one of them will enlighten me?

---------- Rant off / -------------------

Rhonda, I think your approach so far is spot on. It's about the best you can do, continue to work with the contractor that is willing to come to you. This job is a hard job for more reasons you can imagine, this contractor is proving their worth to you.

The original installer not returning calls... how many installs of similiar systems did they put in. They probably know enough by now --- how much trouble these communicating systems are when they age that it's easier for them to just not return calls. Service is usually an after thought, unfortunately.

Because you aren't the original purchaser of this system, there are pro installer type companies that all they do is primarily install. If everything is new, far fewer problems. Technical skills don't come cheap because as this forum board paints in broad strokes harsh red paint USER BEWARE.

I service the Katy, Texas area (for those who missed it previously)

Like cool stories?... here's one fresh off the video press. (dangerous for those who don't know what they are doing... for me? Just another summer of fun.) Another review from the customer included because the naysayers of the board. I'll have to clear more room on the fridge. LOL.

Dispelling a mountain of myths with this one. Why regurgitating nonsense shouldn't be a business model.

PS -- model numbers as Kevin requested:

HEAT PUMP: Serial # 25HPA548H0031010

FURNACE: model 58MVC, serial # 0511A032

The furnace model is what I suspected. However I am surprised you have a single stage Performance heat pump. The good news is heat pump is doesn't have multiple stages and makes it easier for a conventional thermostat to control should you choose to take that route.

One thing I would do is to go into the service menu of the thermostat and look at the list of equipment reported in the user interface. You should see the 58MVC furnace (it will have the complete model number). I am curious what is displayed for the Performance heat pump. It may be blank because I don't believe the Performance series has the ability to communicate this information back to the thermostat. I have not attended any Carrier Factory Authorized dealer classes, so I may be completely wrong about this.

I like the idea of disconnecting the second zone to help isolate the problem. I would take it a step further and disconnect the heat pump. This may require making a change in the thermostat equipment setting. You could operate in this mode for a week and watch for a fault error. Isolating the furnace from the other components will help narrow down the root cause of the problem.

The low voltage readings on the furnace control board is a sign the board may be failing. I would expect the voltages to be lower with the wires connected. You may have reversed your notes. I would want to eliminate all possibilities before replacing a very expensive control board.

And the plot thickens again ... Since the technician was here yesterday, we've had 3 FAULTS in less than 24 hours.

Could changing the ground to the furnace have caused this for any reason, or just coincidence?

BTW, we are in the middle of a late winter snowstorm in New England, and had a few power interrruptions overnight -- my husband Steve tells me that in the past, whenever the gas furnace would go off in a power outage, it would go back on as soon as the power would come back on. This time it stayed off and we've had to manually restart the furnace. Not sure what to make of this ...

@mike_home, we are currently in the system mode that bypasses the heat pump ... did you mean to manually disconnect it as well? btw, in the thermastat menu, the model number of the furnace and the heat pump show up.

@Austin Air Companie ... LOL, thx for sharing video! Very creative! Folks in Katy TX area can sleep well (and cool!)

All -- agree with previous points about aging system with aging parts. New control board plus installation is $1600, but fortunately the contractor is willing to give us credit to a new system if the new control board fails within 30 days, so that makes it easier to do.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Hi, Steve,

I agree with Mike about the need to ensure you really need to replace an expensive control board so the replacement doesn't become another unnecessary "experiment" at your expense. The fact that the service contractor had to have their hand held about how to troubleshoot the problem would make me skeptical about any recommendation they make. Caveat emptor.

@Charles Ross Homes, I hear you, but the reality is that there is no other service technician in this rural area who will come ...

Maybe it's because they know what a challenge this comm fault is and don't want to be bothered or I am just geographically inconvenient, can't say.

Not going to question the HVAC contractor's knowledge or experience ... the car/'check engine light' analogy makes sense to me, especially newer models with electronics, vs. old ones that you could fix mechanically back in the day. Maybe that's why we still have a 1970 El Camino:-)

As the saying goes, 'you dance with the one who brung ya' ... the original installer is long gone and this contractor is willing to troubleshoot this with me, so I'm not looking for a new dance partner! I'm just happy that he is willing to share the risk with me regarding credit for the control board, before a full replace. ( I don't know if he will offer the same thing on the 1-zone thermostat conversion, should it come to that, if the control board doesn't fix the fault -- but we'll cross that bridge if and when we get to it.)

Again, appreciate your thoughts -- fingers crossed that I won't have any new faults to report once the control board is replaced!

If they just connected another ground wire from the metal frame of the furnace to the power ground wire it would make no difference to the communication circuity. What would make a difference is if the new shielded wire cable they installed wasn't grounded at all. The shielding must be grounded to remove any stray electrical signals, and the shield from the wires would be connected to the furnace frame or earth ground by a few different methods.

The only other situation coming to mind is if the the furnace didn't have a ground to earth or weak ground, then stray electrical interference wouldn't be removed. Circuit boards do use grounds but are isolated in a way by using diodes and capacitors on the board to create a one way path to ground, or filter out any frequency that may come in through the ground path.

@mike_home, we are currently in the system mode that bypasses the heat pump ... did you mean to manually disconnect it as well? btw, in the thermostat menu, the model number of the furnace and the heat pump shows up.

Yes I meant physically disconnect the heat pump. Even though you have told the thermostat not to use the heat pump for heating, the software might still be communicating to all the equipment. The model number being displayed in thermostat service may be an indication that this communication is continuing. We want to eliminate it as a possible cause of the fault. It may turn out when the heat pump is disconnected it will show up as a constant fault at the thermostat. The HVAC tech might have to go into the service menu and remove the heat pump. I have never done this so discuss this idea with the HVAC tech.

@kevin9408 and @mike_home, thank you for clarifying how to implement these suggestions -- I will pass them along when he comes back. Much appreciated.

heat pump manual

Furnace manual

After reviewing the manuals Charles and Mike;s option would be easy to do. Both the furnace and heat pump have the primary connectors for nearly any thermostat and connections are direct and to the point in the manuals without any technical confusion.

I mention this only as an option, and offer another temporary solution to test the units before changing out the present wires and thermostat. Turn off power. Temporarily connect some wires and any cheap thermostat at, and next to the furnace. run a wire set to the heat pump and connect them, and pull the ABCD connection blocks on the boards. If the units run fine without replacing the circuit board for a few weeks, without a problems then I'd say it would be OK pulling the wires through the house for any smart thermostat you want. (I would avoid the WYZE thermostat). Any mechanical fault can still be seen by the flashing LED on the boards and codes in the manual, so your not losing this feature and I seriously don't think you'll miss it.

Both boards have the circuits built in for the optional communicating thermostat system and aren't needed to operate the units, and may be where the problem is. A mechanical issue isn't going to cause a communication loss, and will display a fault code. But if a fault was detected followed by a communication loss it could be viewed with your thermostat.

Thermostat installation and setup manual

Your thermostat will store the last 10 fault codes but your owner's manual may not show how to access this information. The above manual shows how to access and setup the thermostat used by an installer. Once in you can toggle through the setup to view the past 10 fault and see if the 178 code followed another fault. I mention this because I sense a level of incompetence by your present service company and it seems you and your husband are doing the work for this company. Beware, don't change any of the settings, just view them. If you decide to stick with the present system the manual is good read, I say it's always good to know something you may not need than the other way around.

Just for your information that board you may buy is only about $587.97 retail, and about half that wholesale.

Kevin9408 provides some good points --- but didn't tell you a few things in terms of what this company is charging for the work.

Let's lay out a cost for a control board you might buy online. Suggest that what they actually pay for it is half than that -- but it may not be because they buy it at a local distributor --- that distributor doesn't know what someone can buy it for online? Typically distributors will have different prices for contractors based on sales volume from that particular distributor... uh yeah.

Most HVAC companies have heavy expenses to cover more than what a part costs. Does the company have a dispatch? To send the proper tech to the proper job ususally based on skill level? Dispatch is free? No benefits? Who you gonna put in this position for no money, no pay?

The manager usually the one who holds the HVAC license -- oversees the operation and controls many functions of hiring new techs, making sure those techs are doing what they are supposed to do etc. This is another thankless job that deserves no pay? no benefits? Who you gonna put in this position for no money?

The accountant -- they have to track the money, pay the bills --- balance the books, write the check for payroll, ensure there is enough (fake money) in the account to pay for these support type jobs. Don't pay the accountant either. Good idea.

The work truck? That costs no money, don't worry about commercial liability insurance?

The tools needed for the job? those are free too. The freon tanks, recovery machine, vac pump, torch brazing rig, refrigerant leak detection equipment? no money here these are all free, free, free.

Gas for the work truck, Hey we get that for free too? of course.

Advertising: so you even know a specific company exists to spend all this (fake money) up front.

The HVAC shop, office etc. -- those are free too.

We base everything we say here on this board about what a part costs and leave out everything else. This is why when may call someone the number goes to voice mail or the message says something to the effect of: "We're sorry the number you have called is disconnected, no longer in service. Please check the number and try, try again."

I have litterally a fraction of these costs. But I am an odd man out here in this business. A freak if you will, because I long ago studied to be a CPA -I do my own books, I invested the time and energy to make videos (advertising in ways for little money except for the expense and time of knowledge), I am the boss, I am the tech, I am the installer if it comes to that.

So because I have less costs means I should be cheaper than someone with less skill?

Think long and hard on all of this before you call someone like me. Call Kevin9408 first.

Why context is important in 2023.

New control board plus installation is $1600,

That's a bit steep considering you have already paid the HVAC contractor to replace the Carrier Infinity thermostat (I didn't seen a price for this) and run new thermostat wiring for $1500 and it has not solved the problem.

but fortunately the contractor is willing to give us credit to a new system if the new control board fails within 30 days,

Only a 30 day warranty? If it fails after 30 days the new system will cost an additional $1600?. I realize this contractor has to cover his costs and there is little competition in the area for your business. But given the situation he needs to do a little better in my opinion as a homeowner.

Have you contacted the local Carrier DISTRIBUTOR?

Local carrier installers have not called me back including the orig installer!!!! Rhonda wrote about this earlier in thread above.

Carrier in particular is a fickle beast to deal with "when you aren't a dealer moving a lot of equipment" for that specific brand(s). Other brands have a few similarities ---- you know when you're an outside contractor trying to get parts.

It wasn't always this way (like maybe 10 years ago) I think part of the reason it is for Carrier or any other brands from same or similar distributors you know brands like Bryant -- they come from the same place more or less.

Carrier had a shake up a while ago as such they got out of running the distributor end of the business -- Watsco snapped them up and they run these distributors (the place where contractors go to get equipment, parts and other supplies) -- some of these might be a 'bit' more friendly in smaller towns -- just saying what I know from where I am, my perspective in dealing with the distributors in my area.

An outside contractor just buying parts to repair a Carrier / Bryant or some other brand they carry if you're not a dealer of that brand selling upwards of $100K a year in new equipment...

I bought a blower wheel just last year from them, they gave me all kinds of trouble --- they had the wheel close to me, but made me drive to a further location, told me the blower wheel had no warranty to it etc.

If you're not greasing the wheels with money -- not just sporadic part money but new equip. money to the likely 6 figure range. I tell you in all honesty --- there is "likely" coming a day that if your relationship with your installing contractor becomes freyed for what ever reason, even if that reason isn't your fault, like you bought a house that someone else had the system installed -- It may put you in a not so good position when that system breaks down.

Lines are being drawn, maps are being rewritten. Little of this is likely to really do much to me because my time horizon for doing this thankless job is rather short. The next 10 years after that? They have plans in place, it's just a waiting game now. Parts of the plan come more into focus in 2025. (Some not even 5 years ago called this a Red Herring)

BTW, Watsco is 1 of if not the largest distributor in the US. When dealing with them from a Carrier / Bryant perspective, they not so nice if you're not moving those brands in the 6 figure realm. There's other distributors under their umbrella so they are into an assortment of different brands. (It all about the benjamins-- don't kid yourself.) They were the one's responsible for bringing Bosch to my market. (shocker) --- why would they do that?

Carrier / Bryant (big corp)--- does not run their distributors any more, because? many of them were losing money when they were.

Watsco is an entity behind the scenes calling shots to various degrees. In fact a wide majority may have never even heard of them. Click here.

Watsco is so big I can't afford to not use them, but I know where the battle lines are drawn where it comes to Carrier / Bryant. I've been doing this for 29 years, remember?

I typically still offer 1 year warranty for any part(s) on a repair of a Carrier or Bryant that I perform for my customers. If I replace a piece of it, traditionally that "part of the system" or piece I replace will be covered for 10 years parts.

"Local carrier installers have not called me back including the orig installer!!!! Rhonda wrote about this earlier in thread above"

Yes, that's why I specified DISTRIBUTOR. There are three layers in the HVAC industry - Manufacturers (they won't speak to you), Installers (good luck there), and DISTRIBUTORS, who take care of things on behalf of the manufacturer when the installers run out of brain cells (that's why they collect their middleman pieces of gold). The distributor usually has experts that go way beyond installers (and sometimes manufactures).

Hi All, I wanted to address the latest comments (to clear up any confusion) and provide yet another update.

Re: quoted prices by my local HVAC service provider and his prices -- let's just put this to rest -- and accept that the price quoted is fair considering his business overhead and entitlement to a profit. If the fix works, it will be money well spent.

Re experience and technical expertise of my local HVAC service provider: I can't judge his level of knowledge or expertise with the Carrier Infinity system, all I can say is the collective wisdom of this forum has been essential to work towards a solution. We pass along every technical suggestion that you guys make and they are well received.

Re: carrier distributor/dealer/installer: Perhaps in some areas going to the dealer would give me other options, but carrier only points me to the original installer from 12 years ago, who is 1.5 hours away, and no longer comes to my area ... so the ONLY person I have found to respond/work with us is a local HVAC company that is not in the Carrier network -- which is why it's been so helpful to supplement his knowledge with the collective wisdom gained here!

So, to sum up, we continue to get faults every few days ... we don't have an option to change horses midstream, his prices are what they are, let's assume they are fair -- and with your help, we have a game plan to troubleshoot. Our next appointment is next Tuesday, when the ground suggestions will be passed along and the control board will be changed. After that, we'll see ...

Again, thank you for the help, suggestions and other thoughts offered here!

Where in New England do you live (town/zip)?

@sktn77a. 06756 in Litchfield Ct and believe me I called several installers : some called back but too far.

Rhonda, my sentiments exactly. You're the bravest person I've seen on this board in years. HVAC salute!

Those telling you to call a HVAC distributor don't know half of what they are talking about.

All Carrier / Bryant distributors in my area you'd be lucky to get them to answer the phone, if they did answer and found out you weren't a licensed contractor they'd probably transfer you (tell you that when in fact they just hanging up on you.)

Maybe in some weird place a distributor might still answer their phone and talk to a non licensed person. If everyone called the distributor --- there's a reason they now hang up on you? Let's not think about that? It's 2023 not 1980 - 1990.

Too many people like to pretend here... yet none of them have answered my questions as to why they do this?

A few pennies worth of words, holding up a dollar of real action.

----------------------------------

one tech came from one of the CERTIFIED companies and said i has WIFI issues. the wifi has nothing to do with the system

I somehow missed this further up in the thread.

WIFI has nothing to do with a communicating HVAC system. The communicating aspects of a communicating HVAC system relates to the pieces of the machine communicating back and forth to the pieces of the machine -- those pieces on the "communication network" of your HVAC system can now "digitally talk" to one another... provided of course there are no faults. Some faults will allow the machine to run, may put the machine into a time out lasting however much time the manufacturer programmed into the specific fault parameter.

The pieces of the HVAC equipment to communicate must recognize one another as well as anything else on that network. OR it won't work. Example: you go to China and everyone talks in Chinese. If you're not fluent in that language good luck. So picture will hopefully be clear to you --- as well as anyone else to has these kinds of issues with a "communicating HVAC system".

WIFI capability (currently) only has to do with being able to control the machine remotely. Provided of course the internet connection is live and there are no faults with the equipment.

Hi, Steve,

Since the system is out of warranty, I'd be more concerned with finding a competent service provider than one endorsed by Carrier. To that end, you might take a drive up to Torrington, and walk in to Plimpton & Hills which is an HVAC Wholesaler. The folks behind the counter will know the better contractors in the area and if you ask nicely for a recommendation or two, I'll bet they'll be glad to provide them.

@Steve Hurwitz

There is a Bryant Factory Authorized dealer within 15 miles of your zip code. There are two others within 20 miles.

Bryant Dealer locator

Carrier and Bryant are the same equipment. You have a better chance of getting a correct diagnosis of the problem with the a Bryant authorized dealer in my opinion. Have you called any of these dealers?

i just called and left messages ,,,,,, ty for advice.

@Charles Ross Homes - i called Plimpton and Hills and they said they don't rep or sell carrier. i will stop in Monday when the Manager is avail to see if i have better luck in real life. the staff via phone were reluctant to discuss with me. i need to talk with manager when he is back on Monday

Steve,

I'm not advocating a Carrier distributor to help you. Plimpton and Hills is a wholesaler--they sell duct and fittings, filters, and misc. pieces and parts to all of the HVAC service people in your area. They might sell replacement air handlers or a product line that's being pushed through wholesalers. The guys/gals at the counter will know who the better companies in the area are because they'll have experience dealing with their techs. A tech with expertise in controls is worth a half a dozen Carrier-certified techs without it.

Let me clarify: the staff at the counter didn’t want to offer any recommendations. I will go in person Monday to recommend a local company but on the phone I had no luck. Will go there Monday. I understandl what Plimpton provides. Ty always for thoughts.

Steve,

Please let the board know how your in person search goes.

Factory Authorized Dealer in my opinion and experience is a glorified "word salad sham" to sell new equipment. It's not an avenue to attempt to fix an old communicating system or other that is out of warranty.

An "authorized dealer" is there to move equipment to the tune of 6 figures [not repair systems out of warranty]. Move means sell... the distributor is there to sell anything and everything they can to the contractor(s) --- it's all about profits. If you were the original purchaser of this system -- maybe the original HVAC installer would be more willing to return your calls. --- I can tell you first hand, it is not uncommon for me to be called to places in which the original installer and original purchaser relationship has been freyed. Most of the time over "money".

I've been telling this to Mike_home for years but he never listens.

Nice idea in theory, but times have changed.

I service the Katy, Texas area (for those of you who are late to this word salad party)

"Those telling you to call a HVAC distributor don't know half of what they are talking about."

Well, that's your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

Well, that's your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

Who on this board has the experience of dealing with distributors on a nearly daily basis. How they answer their phones, how are things handled as the time clock pendulum has swayed back and forth into obscurity over the past 29 years of history? (as they say, it's not 1980-1990?)

You know the nitty gritty little context details that my opinion is based upon?

My HVAC market in particular has well over 4 million people on a bad day, if a small fraction of those people tried to call the distrubutors like you say? But this is a forum board where you can say anything you want, make it sound official... without any explanation of potential ramifications.

How many companies out there actually answer their phones for customer service? And if they do is the phone call not rerouted to somewhere in India or other place in some remote low paying place? Here in never land we don't care to think about any of that? Why?

Who is paying someone to answer that phone? Another mystical enterprise that is free and requires no money. Big surprise!

Why would I ask Steve to tell the board of his experience?

Let's not think about any of this? Just argue over opinions like the wild west.

I remember a time 15 years ago when I could call a distributor and get a real person on the phone within a few minutes. I repeat that was 15 years ago!

Well, if that's the case, i guess the OP is SOL!

sktn77a, the OP has someone helping them, willing to go thru the steps to ultimately find a solution. At this point I'd be really surprised if they find out anything different. I wouldn't call that SOL.

In my area, you'd be lucky to get certain Carrier/Bryant distributors on the phone and most of them by now want you to punch in a code to certify you aren't just calling them because someone had this clever idea from a forum board. Carrier can't even run a distributor profitably they have outsiders running them. There is no magical free person sitting there waiting for the phone to ring. I can tell you that much.

But I'm curious to see if my "spidey sense" is as accurate as I think it is for other places of the country when it comes to the "Factory Authorized Dealer" network. Put to rest this notion of mike_home's theory once and for all --- you know not that it doesn't exist, but that the reason it does exist is to sell you all new Carrier / Bryant HVAC system... even after all this long and winding thread showing the "fruit" of these kinds of HVAC systems.

You will know them by their "fruits"?

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To be clear here, I have nothing against Carrier / Bryant --- I fix (repair & replace) these brands all the time these particular brands are bigger than you think and extend to the ICP brands although many of those are not infinity. All these brands are under the umbrella of UTC (united technology corp) parent company. Watsco is in there too as specified earlier in the thread.

Heil, Tempstar, Grand Aire, Comfort Maker, Arco Aire, Payne, Day N Night and maybe a few more I've forgot? These all are essentially Carrier. How many names does one need? It's all to confuse you primarily. There's only 7 HVAC manufacturers in the USA... far more names, models and differences that if you're lucky --- you can't use them all in your lifetime.

I work on all of them. What is a brand name worth? Depends on what your definition of comfort is.

You will always need a good HVAC repair man. Probably more so now than ever before....

I service the Katy, Texas area (in case you're late to this thread)

"All these brands are under the umbrella of UTC (united technology corp) parent company."

No, they're not. United Technologies spun off Carrier in April 2020 as part of UTC's merger with Raytheon. Three year old news.

Gosh ray, I was just playing with ya, and not trying to hurt your feelings. If the OP was in driving distance I'd fix the darn thing for them for the price of gas and lunch just for kicks. I do like a challenge and one of my specialties fixing stuff others could not.

My present challenge is gravity and question parts of Einstein's theory of relativity with my own theories I've yet to prove. No offense to Einstein who welcomed and encouraged others to prove him wrong, and to you I hope there was no offense if I tried to prove you wrong.

Kevin, I play with people all day long... almost everyday over money related nonsense to one degree or another. This is nothing new to me -- doesn't "hurt" me in any way shape or form. I have provided my view and I will continue to do that --- if someone has a different view I am fine with that to the extent that my time won't be wasted on you either in real life away from a forum board where I primarily come here to drink my morning coffee. How could you possibly hurt me Kevin? You're reading things that aren't there.

My feelings are far and away from being "hurt". I've been doing HVAC for long enough to know you won't please everyone... if you try to please everyone --- you wind up pleasing no one because this business is a numbers game / race against time when the heat comes only so many hours in a day. If you're in this comfort business to just sell, sell, sell? That may soon catch up with you (who ever you are) you know find a problem and tell the home owner they must replace everything to fix that problem. In some cases that is necessary --- there in lays the distortion.

So differences over money is always to argue about what is cheaper or to argue over the price of a part without considering all the other things I mentioned further up?

The nitty gritty details of service where in many instances it's no longer truly about service... so just playing around? There's a time and a place for that... because how people perceive things is important.

My interests are tiny in comparison to the overall size of the HVAC market --- they call this "specialization" --- I suppose you could also call it a niche market if you just wanted to disagree with me for some reason.

HVAC is what I do... I'm not here to hold grudges because of a difference of opinion. I have my opinion and that is never going to change. I know my lane well which is HVAC solutions for the residential market. My solution definition is one that provides solutions without creating new problems. HVAC industry is primarily built on solving problems with gimmicks. As always your mileage will vary. [Tales from a hot climate] --- from a forum board that will argue: It's as hot in Katy, Texas as it is everywhere else not realizing we've been at elevated temps and humidity long before the nation as a whole hits those elevated temps.

When that happens who is gonna get hurt feelings? [not me, guess again] perspective.

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It's either all that above Kevin or this is your way of apologizing because you put yourself in agreement with the builder? ( this is playin, player) ;-)

I just called and left messages ,,,,,, ty for advice.

@Steve Hurwitz

Did any of the Bryant dealers return your phone calls?