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jenelle_vallee

3 Year old Seed Grown Lemon Sapling

Hello everyone ūüėä this is my 3 year old lemon tree and the food I use for my citrus, grow from seed, I was wondering if there is any way I can try and promote it to flower, I've been reading about node counts and contingency branching and something about pinching the tips of the branches to force mature the branches to flower, any suggestions are greatly appreciated, also I just noticed my 11 year old cat photo bombed the tree ūü§£

Comments (27)

  • Dave in NoVA ‚ÄĘ N. Virginia ‚ÄĘ zone 7A
    last year
    last modified: last year

    You may not be too far away from getting flowers! Maybe a couple more years? Most lemons from seed can take anywhere from 4 to 10 years depending on culture and growing season. You must not prune your tree, as that will keep it in a vegetative phase rather than encouraging the development of mature growth capable of blooming. Once blooms appear, they will likely appear near the top of the tree, where the foliage is first to 'mature'. But over the following years it should bloom further down. At that point you can probably trim it back a bit.

    I would move your plant into a larger pot this summer. It needs to put on more growth and develop a larger root system.

    What kind of lemon seed did you plant? There are a number of different lemons. Most can grow true-to-type, but Meyer Lemon will not.

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  • CA Kate z9
    last year

    I know this is off-topic, but, Dave, Meyer Lemon is an ancient cross. I would have thought that, by now, the genome would be stable. You say it is not. Why?

    Janelle, good luck with that lemon, whatever it is. It is a beautiful plant.

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    last year

    Node count needs to be over 150-200 for good flowering.

  • Dave in NoVA ‚ÄĘ N. Virginia ‚ÄĘ zone 7A
    last year
    last modified: last year

    CA Kate, I'm going by nearly everything I've read about Meyer. And by what Dr. Malcolm Manners wrote about it. I probably should have said, "It will likely not grow true-to-type".

  • Silica
    last year

    Dave in NoVA is correct, Meyer lemons do not produce true from seed.

  • Howard Martin
    last year

     They  say , that there is only  one variety or Meyer lemon   but Evey time, you plant the seeds from It is classified  as a new  variety   to me that me that means many varieties it


    Howard

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Howard you are correct. Their naves are MUT MEYER

  • Howard Martin
    last year

    CA Kate z9  so,,


      They are a true hybrid  and from their seeds what comes up  is always  considered a new variety  and seeds some times  never  Howard true because they are  the products of sexual reproduction so if you want the same as you had before  you might have graft  or roo or root a cutting


    Howard

  • Howard Martin
    last year

      I think I know how  the Cold  hardy lemon varieties develop it's from the bitter orange   that is in the  background genetics  there's  bit of    ponicrus  trifolata in the ancient back ground so when  the new cold  hardy variety develop  the   trifolata sides of them is coming back through  see they have the genetics  but not often triggered 


    Howard 


    Hoanetics for It but most of the time it's not triggered

  • Howard Martin
    last year

      Lemons are  hybrid between a citron and  bitter orange that means some   citrus ponicrus trifolata genes are in the  back ground  but rarely triggered   so  the lemons have  the genetics to handle the cold  mostly citron side Is triggered and that is what is happening most of the time  why lemons usually can't handle the cold wheather.  




      cold

  • Howard Martin
    last year

    Ponicrusguy6b4 52xx I figured out something  that maybe I wasn't supposed to about lemons. Lemons are a hybrid between bitter orange and citron   bitter orange is  ponicrus trifolata  most of the time the citron side comes out but rarely happens   the  bitter orange side is genetics triggered   that is why some lemon varieties c develop the ability to handle the co more cold  but but not most . See

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    last year

    I thought lemons were a cross between a sour orange and a citron. I thought the Seville sour is often referred as a bitter orange. I am not sure where I saw that.

  • CA Kate z9
    last year

    I guess I don't read enough. I thought an orange was an orange, a lemon a lemon and a grapefruit/pomella just that. I guess I was wrong.

    Of course, then there are all the crosses. (sigh. oh dear, so complicated.)

  • Jenelle Vallee
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I was going through old pics the other day and I realized I have the age of the Sapling wrong, it's 2 going on 3 in January/February, I thought I'd give an update, since posting I had one of the worst Spider Mite infestation, the poor thing lost a lot of leaves, started to grow them, then it was missed when watering and lost the leaves it had grown back, its just starting to regrow the leaves, Im wondering if stress like that can help encourage it to flower sooner? or could I graft a branch to my mature Eureka to get it to flower? But problem I have with that is it would lessen the current node count and it would have to start counting nodes again. It hasn't bloomed yet, I keep watching the top anytime I see new growth, any suggestions are greatly appreciated

  • Silica
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    If you graft a mature bud to your tree, the graft will remember it's mature node count, and flower much earlier. Lemons when grown from seed normally takes 5 years for the first blooms. This is when the seedling is grown properly. Hopefully you have transplanted your tree into a larger container than the one shown in the above picture.

  • Jenelle Vallee
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I haven't, but I plan on doing it as soon as possible, I use Repti-bark, Coco coir and potting soil, I had some set aside and when I went to use it when I brought them in for the winter, it was moldy. I remember reading that citrus roots grow out the side and not so much down and I'd be better getting a wider pot rather than deeper? I have a really hard time finding pots that are deep enough for my citrus trees when I repot them, I might have something outside I can bring inside and warm up before I repot it.

  • Silica
    2 months ago

    Most of my citrus trees are grown in the ground. I do have a few container citrus trees. The container trees are all grown in Root Maker containers. Look up Rootmaker containers on your computer.

  • Jenelle Vallee
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I'll definitely look into the Rootmaker pots, I'm not sure if I mentioned, the Sapling was a Monoembrionic seed, so I'm really curious to see what I eventually get from it, I have also been doing a lot of reading about seed grown citrus and node counts. I'm not sure how to go about counting the nodes the Sapling has as its branches are rather confusing, if you or anyone has any suggestions on how I can count the nodes, it would be greatly appreciated

  • Dave in NoVA ‚ÄĘ N. Virginia ‚ÄĘ zone 7A
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Every spot on the stem where there is, or was, a leaf/petiole -- that is a node. So you should be able to start at the base and count upwards to the longest branch. But no one really knows how many nodes is required for a Eureka lemon. Once adequate nodes is achieved, the plant still needs all other needs met -- good nutrition, sun, warmth, good root system, etc. etc.



  • Jenelle Vallee
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Sorry this is so long, I have a few things to ask about, and give info on. I'll try and upload a recent pic of of the Sapling, to try and show what I mean by the branches are confusing, which makes it hard to count the nodes. Unfortunately it is still in the same pot, as the original pic. I'm trying to repot it. It also looks bare in spots due to leaf loss, otherwise it seems happy and starting growth back nicely. I also have a Navel Orange Seedling that I think is about a year old, I bought it last July, I also have 4 Bitter (Marmalade) Oranges, 3 that came up Monoembrionic, 1 of them came up Polyembrionic so I'm really curious how they grow side by side, and a Mandarin Orange seed I just put on damp paper towel with warmth yesterday. Plus my mature trees, a Eureka Lemon, a Ponderosa Lemon, a Calamondin Orange, and my most confusing the Meyer Lime. I have scoured the internet and I can't find any information on it, only cocktail trees which are equally as confusing lol I have gotten fruit off it, they tasted like a mix of orange, lemon and Lime but the peel smells exactly like a Meyer Lemon but when I cut it open it smells like an Orange Lime, I was wondering if you have any suggestions for both the Sapling and the Meyer Lime? I currently have the Meyer Lime on a heated seed mat with a grow light set for spring, (it was on a table by a large bay window for winter for a few months [sept]) as its completely bare besides a tiny branch and 3 tiny leaves. I missed watering it and it dropped all its leaves just before winter and it's been extremely slow to grow back so I'm trying to trick it into thinking its spring and send a flush of leaves, though I just put it there today so it needs time. I'm always reading and learning, mostly on amazing forums like this one, I've learned alot reading your comments with others about node counts, which is why I asked then remembered I had this post I can ask on ūü§£

  • Jenelle Vallee
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    These are of the Lemon Sapling, and its confusing branches, I just took the pics. If I hadn't grown it from seed, I'd swear it's a grafted tree lol




    These below are of my poor Meyer Lime, I took them earlier when I moved it.



  • Jenelle Vallee
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I just tried counting nodes, unless I did it wrong the longest outward and upwards branch has 33 to 35 nodes, also for branches that have branches for example there's 24 nodes and on the 24th node, there's another branch, do I continue at 24 or do i start at 1 again? Do I count them like that and add them all together or do I count every single node i find on the whole Sapling? I suck at wording things, I hope it's not too confusing, if it is I can find a better way to word it

  • poncirusguy6b452xx
    2 months ago

    start at 25

  • Dave in NoVA ‚ÄĘ N. Virginia ‚ÄĘ zone 7A
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Sorry this is so long, I have a few things to ask about, and give info on. I'll try and upload a recent pic of of the Sapling, to try and show what I mean by the branches are confusing, which makes it hard to count the nodes.

    • So you start at the base and count upward only along one stem. But really, node count doesn't mean anything to YOU. Only the plant knows the magic number where mature growth will begin. The whole point is that the plant has to reach some certain number before growth will transform to 'mature' and then it will be ready to bloom. At that point the plant will probably be quite tall, like 6 to 9 feet or more. But once that node is reached, perhaps some kind of hormone is given off, for the plant will then begin to bloom further and further down in subsequent seasons.

    Unfortunately it is still in the same pot, as the original pic. I'm trying to repot it. It also looks bare in spots due to leaf loss, otherwise it seems happy and starting growth back nicely.

    • Make sure you check for spider mites. Leaves look a bit silvery and mottled to me (from here). Generally you'd repot in spring or summer. Plants are traumatized enough with indoor winters.

    I also have a Navel Orange Seedling that I think is about a year old, I bought it last July, I also have 4 Bitter (Marmalade) Oranges, 3 that came up Monoembrionic, 1 of them came up Polyembrionic so I'm really curious how they grow side by side, and a Mandarin Orange seed I just put on damp paper towel with warmth yesterday.

    • All those should grow true-to-type, but can take many, many years. I would not waste my money buying seedlings, personally. Orange tree seedlings will need to get at least 14 feet high before they will bloom.


    Plus my mature trees, a Eureka Lemon, a Ponderosa Lemon, a Calamondin Orange, and my most confusing the Meyer Lime. I have scoured the internet and I can't find any information on it, only cocktail trees which are equally as confusing lol

    • There should be a lot of info online about Meyer lemon. Check YouTube as well.

    I have gotten fruit off it, they tasted like a mix of orange, lemon and Lime but the peel smells exactly like a Meyer Lemon but when I cut it open it smells like an Orange Lime, I was wondering if you have any suggestions for both the Sapling and the Meyer Lime?

    • What kind of help or suggestions are you looking for?

    I currently have the Meyer Lime on a heated seed mat with a grow light set for spring, (it was on a table by a large bay window for winter for a few months [sept]) as its completely bare besides a tiny branch and 3 tiny leaves.

    • If your Meyer was outside for the summer, it is dropping leaves because of the great change in environment. Most citrus are not very happy growing in a warm, dry home in winter. My citrus are wintered in the garage where the temps are in the 45-55 degree range and the humidity is 50 to 75%. They love it and are usually in full bloom by late March/April. I'm not sure your heat mat is helping.

    I missed watering it and it dropped all its leaves just before winter and it's been extremely slow to grow back so I'm trying to trick it into thinking its spring and send a flush of leaves, though I just put it there today so it needs time.

    • Winter leaf growth indoors will be weak and prone to pests like spider mites, scale, aphids. So you'll have to keep aware of outbreaks. Don't overwater if the plants have no leaves. As long as twigs remain green, the plant is alive.

    I'm always reading and learning, mostly on amazing forums like this one, I've learned alot reading your comments with others about node counts, which is why I asked then remembered I had this post I can ask on

  • Jenelle Vallee
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Do I starting at I'm guessing you mean Node 25 go from the first node at the bottom and go up the trunk and vertical branches as well as along the lateral branches or do I start counting Node 25 at a slightly higher spot on the trunk? I tried following a diagram I found (might have been one of these forums) but the tree is cut part way through, so it starts at Node 1 then jumps to Node 450, I found it rather confusing when trying follow it to count the nodes on the Sapling. I have a feeling once I figure it out it will be easy for me to count, but for some reason I just seem to be really confused about it all, would you be able to explain it a in little more detail? I greatly appreciate your advice

  • Dave in NoVA ‚ÄĘ N. Virginia ‚ÄĘ zone 7A
    2 months ago

    Don't bother counting nodes. The number won't really tell you anything.