Ken, I have read you rant about maples many, many times. May I plant maples and not worry about their effect in 5, 10, 20 years? ;) (I don't actually want a maple.) I know you caution against them for multiple reasons..... so I'm just trying to see if I should have concerns about the spruce roots as well... ===>>> you miss the wisdom of it all .. i will yell.. I DONT CARE WHAT YOU DO IN YOUR GARDEN... you take what i say.. and use it.. or file it appropriately ... all i can tell you .. is my experience ... and that is key .. because i am not telling you what other wise sages have written or posted on the WWW ... i speak from my personal experience .. in my personal gardens ... if you want to make the same mistakes i made.. ALL THE POWER TO YA .... i learned by making mistakes ... you feel free to do the same ... you said: Picea glauca Pendula (which grows at least a foot a year. I know I have space for the tree above ground.............. what happens below ground is another story. :)) ===>>> this one grows straight up ... are you spacing it for 20 foot plus potential ... one foot by 20 years??? or is the placement too close to the house ??? but Picea abies Pendula.. BUT .. there always seem to be a big but around.. lol ... you train it to the height you want.. and then it grows one foot per year... STRAIGHT DOWN ... i dont have time right now for pics .... one is a true weeper.. as per Pa pendula... the other.. glauca ... is a vertical leader plant.. with all BRANCHES weeping down.. making it rather thin ... [BTW.. this is another rant of mine.. where one term describes two growth habits .. pshaw] if you google the latin on each.. and flip to the IMAGES side ... i bet you will now see the difference ... and you will run across a very large glauca that you hopefully will understand that you can not plant within 20 feet of the house or so.. which would rule out your space that i am envisioning in my mind ... how about a pic???? ken

Great tree choices-two of my favorites, so they must be good, right? So you've done your homework and yes, both are vigorous, fast growers. In my experience, white pine will shoot up a little faster a little quicker, if that makes sense. I've planted roughly 10,000 trees at my tree farm, of which nearly two thirds are these two types, and in the earliest stages of growth, the white pines win the race. A few years later, the spruce begin to put on amazing growth, some of mine in the last two years averaging nearly four feet of height increment per year. The spruce will hold its lower branches better than the pine, so is a better windbreak/screen plant, but both are good. Beyond that, it's really your call on how to arrange. I also like the three per grouping scheme. +oM

Thank You Kulbaba for doing this thread. Wishing you the best of luck from down here, in your dirt poor habitat! (I have a similar situation except in Christchurch New Zealand, we do get climatic extremes with over several sub zero frosts every winter and high sunshine hours. I also have some outside space to try and put it into the ground over winter. Am considering leaving it in a pot and burying the pot in the ground 10 months a year but like the wise gardeners above have said, we would be pioneers if we could make them survive for any years in the pot but you know, we just don't have the knowledge to make it work alone so it would be a group effort ! But our Christmas is the height of our summer so! Might have some added luck on our side. I know there are healthy spruces growing outdoors in my city. Ideally I'd like to have her inside from Dec 1st to about Feb, Dec is pretty much our hottest month during these El Nino weather cycles. Am watching this thread with interest, and learning that there is a huge and wide variety of info online of caring for potted spruces. Even bonsai blue spruces that seem to have wildly different needs. Here's a photo of our one, which is called Picea Pungens Glauca or "baby blue". On the label it says it will be 15 m high after a decade after planting outside, so that doesn't sound particularly slow growing but am not sure. It's easy to fall in love with these particular babies! But she's got some browning needles on the very inside next to the main trunk. After different affirmations especially from your experts above am going to buy some food for her and get her outside to a morning sun location over the next few days, aiming for a pot snugly within a pot lined with plastic on the sides or something so I can whip her out and check her roots and things. She wouldn't have got many nutrients in the place I am choosing for her, so all her nutrition will have to come from me, but it is by the front door on the morning sun side where I can at least see if she is looking healthy every day.) One specific question, when we went away on holiday for a week we put her in a moist place inside with some access to filtered sunlight so she wouldn't dry out so much (same size container as Kulbaba) and I have kept her soil not dry ever since we got back, with the browning needles on the inside parts, could this be occurring now from the dry out due to temperature that finished two weeks ago, or some trauma even further back? Cheers if anyone can answer, how long after trauma / dry outs do the needles go brown, is it normal for any of the needles to go brown. But please don't call child services on us! wink wink

Timing depends on several variables. In your zone 5B I wouldn't plant container stock if you're goal is to plant and leave it be permantantly. Odds are container stock needs root work. This time of year roots will not regenerate. The fall rooting from existing roots is done at this point. Roots will not be growing this time of year unless temps are higher than average and thats certainly not the case. My soil, your soil will likely freeze a few inches with the ensuing temps. With all that said you can still plant if the ground is not frozen and still be totally fine. However it will depend on exposure and type of winter you have. If you're exposed to prevailing winter winds and its a rough winter those needles will burn burn burn and the plant will struggle going into next year. Best bet is to plant in spring. You can tear through those roots if needed and they will regenerate that time of year. In fact I see them do this well through the summer. For b&b stock you really can plant anytime the grounds not frozen. Again make a judgement call based on exposure. Kudos to you for stepping in to support father.