How Much My DIY Geothermal System Cost - YouTube

Unless you have a super duper insulated home, I don't think 12,000 (is this what you meant?) BTU will be enough More like 18,000 BTU or maybe even 24,000, depending on the construction and your location.

You will need a lot of room for this. You have acreage?

Wait a sec, 12000 btus seems like plenty for a small house. We are talking 1000 sqft. I have 3800 sqft and heat just fine with 24000 btus down to 12-15 degrees F (without aux and aux is obviously an option). And mind you, that is air source, a geothermal would be more consistent with btus at lower temps. Mine was probably only giving me 18000 at that temp.

If he just had my level of US insulation, he would be fine with roughly 6000 at his size. And mind you, I have an area with 14 ft ceiling, and then typical high end 10/9. I also have American windows and not European. And things like a fireplace and an 8 foot wood door with a speakeasy. My house is not average but not extreme either.

I suspect all of Northern Europe new construction has "super duper" insulation by US standards. And all of Canada. Now Australia is another story perhaps but doesn't get that cold in most areas.

When you are building for geothermal, you tend to build really tight. Because the upfront cost of tonnage is more, it favors reducing the heating load. For example, it may cost $10k to go from 12,000 btu to 24,000 btus. That $10k can be used to thicken the walls and upgrade the windows. Same cost up front, less energy use - a no brainer. Makes the house more comfortable and gets you through power outages better.

The house doesn't have much insulation, apart from a well insulated attic and double glazed windows. It's around 1,000sq feet.

The thing is first I'd like to know exactly what I would need to set up the system. Then to think about the aprox cost There is a garage and winters can be cold, but mostly not colder than around -3 C. Thanks

Sorry, I had some issues typing on my mobile. It seems to work normally on a laptop.

Do you own excavating equipment? Do you have a HVAC license? And acreage? Plus 20K?

No, I should have said it would be a diy project, but that I would ask someone with the proper equipment to dig out the trench. The field is around 1 acre. Plus 20K? 20,000?

I've rented an excavator before. Just needed a 2" ball. A lot of fun. Plenty of incentives for geothermal. DIY is put forward in the videos from the guy I posted. You bet against American ingenuity.- you lose. For pricing of about 13k or less look at the video I posted above.

seanin, with all due respect, the nature of your questions suggests to me that such a project may be best done by professionals and not by you as a DIY install. Don't be pennywise and pound foolish. Good luck.

Every diyer for this type of project is likely to begin at a position like seamin. Starting your process here can be a first step in your education. This project is not complicated. It is also a project outside the norm for your average hvac guy. This can mean using an hvac pro for the whole project will get you higher prices. The components are sealed and no hvac guy is needed. Thousands of dollars can easily be saved. Don't give up that potential savings.

@dan1888 Very well said and about Diyer projects. I've also rented many bobcats and even an articulating wheel loader once to move a mountain of dirt. My go to rental for digging deep was a small backhoe loader @ $300/day until the rental shop put it up for sale, and I bought it. That was 20 years ago and It's paid it's way 20 times over.

" Every diyer for this type of project is likely to begin at a position like seamin. "

As with other trades, getting an HVAC license requires technical studies (usually classroom style), several years of on-the-job training, and passing a test covering relevant topics and techniques.

The majority of HVAC equipment manufacturers refuse to sell directly to unlicensed people and equipment obtained through unauthorized channels is usually not covered by a warranty. Right there, other things excluded, is a huge financial risk that more than offsets money savings from convincing oneself that such tasks can be done by a rookie.

Another question - can an unlicensed person doing HVAC work qualify for and be granted a building permit, required in most locations for HVAC equipment install or replacement tasks? I doubt it.

I think it's foolish to scoff at or pooh-pooh restrictions that are in place to prevent a beginner with a "know-it-all" attitude from getting himself and potentially others into trouble or danger. The restrictions are there for a reason.

This is for seanin. I know none of the ingenuity deniers are going to watch these.

You decide how much you want to diy.

"Wait a sec, 12000 btus seems like plenty for a small house. We are talking 1000 sqft. I have 3800 sqft and heat just fine with 24000 btus down to 12-15 degrees F"

Well, at risk of using the dreaded "rule of thumb", the rule of thumb for HVAC is 1 ton (12,000 BTU) per 600-800sqft in an average insulated home and a moderate climate like ours. You may get away with 1000sqft per ton but that's pushing it. Not sure how you are managing with only 2 tons for a 3800sqft home!

Bottom line is, the OP needs a heating/cooling load calculation done to get an accurate estimate of his needs.

Thanks for all the info. I'm very aware of the importance of safety and the risk of accidents, and I think anyone starting in the world of diy should absolutely prioritise safety first. For example, I have used angle grinders and circular saws quite a lot over the years, and I consider them to be extremely dangerous, hence the importance of being very careful. So many tools are very dangerous, even manual saws.

My approach would be to ask someone with the right equipment to dig the trench. I would do the rest myself. In any case, if the final cost of the project were more than €10,000 (around $11,000), I would probably forget the idea and focus on other options, like solar panels, first for domestic hot water.

Total cost over time is a way of making a choice. Cost of equipment plus labor and the yearly cost of fuel to operate with maintenance costs. Geothermal ground source can be less over a time period when the total cost is considered. Diying some of the parts can bring down the initial investment. The unit comes precharged and sealed. This means no hvac training is necessary for commissioning. In my state an owner can pull all the permits to build his own house. He can determine who he hires. For example, I installed a 200A quality fuse box and used all 20A breakers and 12g wire to run the entire house. Hired an electrician only to connect to the grid. That charge was minimal based on the time involved with no supplies. What I find when I diy is the ability to upgrade the quality of the components and still save thousands. Plus, I end up with much more understanding of the system and parts going forward to help maintain everything that I own. And I have helped friends. Next, I'm adding a 50A industrial grade outlet to the wall in the garage below my panel to charge my car. I'm not even thinking about an electrician. Zero need. Most electricians do not recognize the continuous duty rating necessary for that receptacle. They put in a standard intermittent duty rated product that's cheaper. Safety.

seanin. A geothermal system will still require energy to run. You can determine that and other needs for your home and transportation. Solar plus battery could then be used to reduce the cost over time.

yea, I also thought about the running costs. As far as I know, Geothermal heats water to around 15C if the depth of the horizontal loop is about 2 metres, so I suspect running costs might be expensive, unless of course solar panels are used to reduce the costs. But now I'm thinking that if a simple hot water solar panel can heat water to much more than 15C, maybe it might be a good alternative to geothermal, especially if the house gets fairly high average sun hours per year, which is the case here. And maybe to include 3 or 4 solar panels and battery as well.

Consideration is given to your climate zone for cold temps in winter and hot temps in summer. Ground source geothermal is stable year round. This works good for climates with extremes. Data for your location is necessary and calculation made.

seanin, what may be missing from your thoughts is the understanding that there's a heat pump in the equipment setup that will apply the refrigeration cycle to the 15C water to extract heat from it. This will produce temperatures of 50C or higher that can be used for heating and hot water.

Just as a refrigerator applies the refrigeration cycle to produce 5C for the food compartment and resulting warm air blown into the room from the coils. The warm air is heat removed from the cold food compartment. That's why it's cold.

I hope you're able to hire a qaulified pro to do this work for you.

15°C is 59°F, geothermal output is much higher. My neighbor has a ground-source heat pump with a water-heater loop. He turns his electric tank water heater off during cooling season (which is long in TX) ... I don't know if the recovery loop functions during heating mode (perhaps I'll remember to ask at next opportunity).

Thanks for the info about heat exchangers I did read that it's similar to the way a fridge works - that it can cool down hot air or warm up cold air.. Well, the climate here is fairly cold in Dec, Jan, Feb, average around 3C to 4C Spring is usually cool to mild and summers tend to be warm. sometimes very warm around July or August, but I wouldn't call it a very extreme climate.

It's not the heat exchanger - that's simply where heat or cold are transferred. Another word used for this component is "coil".

The heat pump MAKES the carrying medium (whether it's refrigerant or water) cold or hot (as desired) to send to the heat exchanger.

Ah ok, so there's a heat pump and a heat exchanger. Interesting. Just wondering whether getting the temperature from 15C to 50C uses much electricity? Thanks.

Seanin, you understand how air conditioning (with "freon" or other refrigerant substance) works, yes? It moves heat from inside the building to outside of it, yes? Hot air blows from the compressor unit (condensor coil) outside the house, some of which is the heat that has been moved out of the house. Compression of the refrigerant ("freon") by the compressor adds more heat to increase the differential between the refrigerant in the coil and the ambient air. (Recall the gas laws from chemistry and/or physics ... pressure, volume, temperature.)

A heat pump (the terminology used for an air conditioner that heats) is an air conditioner that reverses the direction of the heat flow ... moving heat from the air outside the house to inside, essentially air conditioning the outdoors -- the outdoor coil is cold and the inside coil is warm when in heating mode.

Extracting heat from the outdoor air in the winter season gets more difficult as temperatures get colder, and the cold outdoor coil will frost/ice-up near or below freezing temperatures, especially when outdoor weather is wet, which obstructs airflow through the coil and requires the heat pump occasionally revert to cooling mode for several minutes to heat the outdoor coil for melting the frost.

Geothermal air conditioning/heating (heat pump) uses the ground to dump heat (cool the house) or pick up heat (warm the house). It's more efficient than air-source heat pump cooling/heating because the ground temperature doesn't vary as widely as the outdoor air, and defrosting isn't necessary.

Good explanation, thanks. I think it's interesting to compare the pros and cons of different systems. One thing that I'm not fully comfortable with in Geothermal is having to use antifreeze, and potential contamination issues a leak may cause, to ground water for example, especially if there's a potable water well nearby.

If I install a solar hot water panel, I would certainly prefer the drainback system, which doesn't require antifreeze,

I had antifreeze in a solar hot water system. Do you have antifreeze in your car? A leak becomes noticeable really quickly above ground. Below ground is a bit different but leaks in a stable environment aren't very common. Leaks in a car - much more common - excessive heat and all.

The most important time to save energy is generally the winter because solar generation is lower. In the summer, you can basically put a hot water tank in the attic and never need to use energy to heat water (depending on climate). Winter is what matters - not to mention the ground water is colder so more heat is needed to bring up to temp.

Geothermal systems can use nontoxic alternatives for the liquid in the groundwater loop. My neighbor put in his own system, including the excavation and horizontal loop. He learned as he did it, and had to go back and add another loop as one was inoperative.

The type of toxic anti freeze used in cars is not the same type you use in HVAC systems. What is used in HVAC systems is non-toxic and called propylene glycol and won't hurt a thing, and also used in boats called marine glycol. The type used in cars is Ethylene Glycol witch is toxic and is an entirely different formula then propylene.

So you want propylene glycol. There is about 6.3 gallons to fill 100 ft of 1.25 in poly pipe and about 4 gallons to fill a 1" poly pipe, and you will need several hundred feet of the pipe so add $150 per 100 ft to you cost spread sheet.

There is also type of food grade certified propylene glycol that we used in food processing plants but there is little difference between the types so don't think you'll save the planet and buy the food grade. I could drink some of both types and not get sick. here are examples of what you need from supplyhouse,com