"Mulch" is anything placed on the soil surface to insulate it against heat/cold, retain moisture and even suppress weeds. That can organic or inorganic. Rocks over weed barrier is "mulch". Pine straw strewn over the soil surface is "mulch". Bark, rubber shreds, hay, horse manure, compost...it all qualifies. I don't know what kinds of mulch might harbor subterranean termites. What products do you have readily and cost effectively available to you there which might provide some soil enrichment as well as weed suppression, soil insulation and water retention? Inorganic mulches are wonderful where you wish to literally kill all plant life and prevent anything from growing as they absorb, retain and radiate heat. Descanso Gardens, decades ago, decided it was more "cost effective" to use cinder rock for mulch in Dr. Lammerts' Rose History Walk. They literally cooked the feeder root systems of the roses and stunted them severely. It sickens me to think of what was lost to "cost effectiveness".

Ohhh, good warning on using rock... how sad. Um, I have avocado leaves and live oak leaves. Perhaps if I shred those... I'd be concerned about creating a moist layer mass that actually starts to mold, though. Hum.... I'll keep thinking.

What do organic rosarian's use? I'll also give the local botanical garden a call. Your post reminded me that they have a 'rose walk' as well. What about anyone else? ideas?

You want the leaves to mold, that's how Nature "digests" the organics to recycle them, feed the soil and plants. If you have enough oak leaves to put down an inch or more in your rose beds, you have GOLD. If you shred the leaves, they'll break down faster. If you have local stables wanting to get rid of horse manure, that's a great mulch. A great thing about the manure is, it comes with its own source of nitrogen (urine) so you don't have to add extra to feed the soil bacteria to prevent them from robbing it from the plants until they start releasing it through their digestion of the organics.

Compost has been my preferred "mulch of choice" for my entire garden and for my entire gardening career of almost 50years (and I am a professional consulting horticulturist). There is nothing detrimental about using it for this purpose at all except that a) it may not be available in the quantity desired if homemade, or b) more expensive than other organic mulch types if imported. Compost achieves all the requirements of a mulch when used in that manner: soil temperature moderation, moisture retention/slow evaporation, weed suppression. Plus, it offers some benefits less obvious or less active with other mulch types - it will help to improve soil tilth and drainage, it provides a full range of necessary nutrients and it has disease suppressing capabilities.

There is so much hype and nonsense published about growing roses that especially for those new gardeners the information can be unnecessarily confusing. Roses are just another form of flowering shrubby perennial and require the same treatment and care as any other flowering shrubby perennial - sun, water, good drainage and a moderately fertile soil. All the rest of the hype is just a bunch of overdone hoo-hah and opinions that have no basis in science.

Compost is an excellent mulch for any kind of gardening activity - roses, perennial and mixed shrub borders, vegetable gardens, etc.

Live oak leaves should be great since they are small already- shredding them would also be great.

Do you have space and interest in having your own compost bin of some sort? I say that because my own leaf compost makes great mulch, as gardengal notes, but the fun thing about leaf compost ( some of which is just leaves, as opposed to my bins where I’m adding veggie scraps) is that you can layer it on at various stages- partially broken down is fine and a bit more “ mulch- looking” or fully broken down where it does look like “ dirt”. But it’s still fluffier and has mulch properties that say topsoil would not.

You might find a place that sells bulk compost that looks better and functions better than bagged “ compost “ which can be weird stuff at times, and also would be cheaper, except you need a truck!

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) I agree on the benefits of compost, but since the particles are so small, wouldn’t it be less effective (than say, wood mulch) in terms of weed supression and evaporation? My plan is to put down a layer of compost, and top it with a layer of shredded redwood. Here in Sacramento valley, I think my evaporation and weed suppression needs might be great than your gentle PNW. I agree, there is so much overdone specificity on rose care by self proclaimed ‘scientists’ with anecdotal ’experiments’ that is probably more harmful than helpful.

@BenT (9B Sunset 14), that is a reasonable assumption if not a necessarily valid one :-) Particle size really has very little to do with either moisture retention or weed suppression........but the thickness of the mulch does. You want at least 2-3 inches and with that, both issues are adequately addressed.

While compost does a fully adequate job of suppressing weed development from below, it is also a very fertile seed bed so any wind blown weed seeds generally develop easily. But they are equally as easy to remove from a compost mulch as the roots tend to be very lightly seated and pull out easily. And I can grow some seriously behemoth weeds in my garden if I am not diligent about seedling removal!

TBH, the "best" mulch to use is whatever is plentiful in your area and inexpensive, if not free. Could be compost, aged manure, pine straw, arborist wood chips, old leaves or even grass clippings.

Thank you, everyone. Yes, there is a source or two of bulk compost. Aside from the issues of what's in it (diseases, nematodes) it IS available. Weeds sprout and grow in SECONDS here. lol. But i guess I'd be picking them out of bark too, sooo. I like the thought of using compost (nice post, @gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)! I have a single multistage compost bin, will never keep up. The idea of composting just leaves separately is interesting. grass clippings I know I can't use - the seeds! shudder! I'd contact the power company/asplundah for free wood chips, unfortunately there's termites. Some municipalities also have mulch piles free to public. same issues. I'll contact them and go 'look'.... maybe good source and I'm using beneficial nematodes to kill root gall nems and termites now. Or at least reduce their presence if possible.

shoot... on the compost bin.... what I meant was that my large composter, while getting lots of materials and churning out compost... it will never be able to keep up with the new demands needed by adding a 40x40 rose garden this year. Sigh... how the heck did I go from 5 rose bushes to 17? Idk!

If the compost is well made and decently finished, then there is really no issues with diseases, insect problems or weeds. Compost is known as the "great equalizer" in that it effectively neutralizes all of these concerns when brought to the proper temp and maintained there for a sufficient time. Most commercial composting operations can and do....somewhat harder to maintain and monitor on a residential level.

I don't deliberately mulch, as it interferes with the appearance and practice I prefer, using smaller species as groundcover under the roses. First, as a plant ecologist, I am always in need of more ground space to grow new, often uncommon, if not oddball, species that interest me and that I often have to grow from seed (for example, Crithmum maritimum or rock samphire, which I've now used for years as a groundcover around roses, and it's edible!). Many of these do great under or around roses that don't have large, dense canopies. Second, having gone the mulch route in earlier gardening years, I was mostly unimpressed with how much bang I got for not only the buck, but also the hassle, of applying and maintaining mulch. I do let whatever leaves fall or end up under the roses stay there to cover the soil and decompose (as @roseseek said, gold!). I may also dump a shovel of compost and a cup or so of alfalfa pellets under each rose on an annual basis.

The ultimate key to weed control is weed seed bank control: don't let the weed go to seed. I've entirely eliminated exotic grasses (except for specific ones I let grow for the benefit of cats) and many other pesky weeds from my garden by simply focusing for a year or so on not letting them go to seed. Grasses, in particular, have short-lived seed banks (a year), but even broad-leaved weeds with longer-lived seed banks can be considerably reduced in number by simply not letting them go to seed. While weeds with air-borne seeds, e.g., thistles, will still blow in, it's not to big a job to weed them out as needed.

Thank you, catspa, for introducing me to a new plant! I had never heard of crithmum maritimum, but promptly looked it up and it looks like something that might have potential in my garden. It looks like it’s natural habitat is in coastal areas, but if it’s listed as a xeriscaping plant, I think it’s worth a try if I give it a bit of afternoon shade in my climate. I do like using lots of compost and horse manure to feed my soil and act as a mulch as well as wood chips in some areas, but I like ground covers on slopes especially.
Wendy, I want to tell you how much I like composted horse manure for a mulch on my roses. I have some areas in my gardens that are super sandy and porous and horse manure acts as a sponge to help retain water. Roses love the stuff!

I’m sorry, I see your name is Kimberly, not Wendy! I got mixed up with your last name.

I’m puzzled that you dismiss grass clippings. If your lawn mowings have seeds in perhaps you are letting the grass get too long? It should be mown long before it flowers.

I’m interested in hearing about using Crithmum maritimum as a ground cover. Here it is a coastal species restricted to growing on cliffs and beaches. I’m surprised it grows in a garden away from the sea.

I just rake out my barn and throw the old hay (there's some alfalfa hay in there too), feed, goat poop, pine shavings etc on my plants. They love it! Of course, with the barn being over 2800 sq feet, Most of it goes in the compost pile but it does make good mulch too. I also compost our other farm animals manure as well.

Even if one isn't allowed to have chickens, goats, horses, etc..most people with a yard, can start a worm/vermicompost or keep a rabbit or two. Rabbits make great garden fertilizer. Like goat manure, rabbit berries also do not have to be composted. It can go right on your ornamental plants. Craigslist can also be a good source of manure fir your compost pile. Save your coffe and tea grounds, they are good for the compost as well. Some Starbucks still give them away as well.

Hi @floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK, Well, we are mowing weeds a lot. Like dollar weed where the the shoots can all grow into more dollar weed. We are hand weeding but honestly, it's a jungle here. It will get much much better without the 6 giant arecas tho. Already looking good. okay, well looking better.

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida) I wasn't sure about using hay, we get plenty of "waste" hay that our guinea pigs dirty but don't eat, but I figured if I threw it into the compost or garden then the seeds in it might make more weeds for me. Do you not have that issue?

Rats, Crithmum maritimum only goes to zone 9. I would have tried it. Found some blue sallyfun deep ocean salvia on clearance at big box store. Picked up 3 half dead pots two days ago. I deadheaded the dried flower stocks (looking for seeds), watered, put out in sun. There are three plants in each pot and I think all will survive. My 'rescues' will look great drifted over in by the cool pink roses. Got all three types of beneficial nematodes sprayed down today. What a job. Hoping for results (won't 'see' anything until later.)

" Crithmum maritimum only goes to zone 9. "

Since the USDA zonal system only measures winter cold tolerance, only the lowest zone is of significance (if it can survive a zone 5 winter, it can be expected to survive winter in any higher zone as well). There may be other reasons why the plant is considered not suitable for that location but that cannot be determined by the zone ratings.

@floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK It really is a trouble-free groundcover -- I cut it back during the winter to get rid of the old bloom stalks and that's about it. It expands via rhizomes at a very moderate rate -- basically a bit more than just enough to renew itself, so it expands slowly. It is heat and drought tolerant. Many seaside plants adapted to salty conditions are (for example, many plant species found at our local, inland alkaline sink preserve, where they bake in total drought from May to October, are also found 50 miles away on the San Francisco Bay shoreline: Salicornia, Frankenia, etc.). The flower umbels are charming, going from lime-yellow to pale yellow over a long period of time from midsummer on. Unfortunately I couldn't find a good photo with it in bloom, but you see a patch with fine young growth during April at the base of "Marlowe Soft Orange", a rather leggy found rose (the wider, floppy leaves are spent Narcissus). This was about 7 years ago; it now fills a lot more empty patches in that bed and is not aggressive -- plays well with other plants. It smells like fennel.

Edit to add this blurb about Crithmum maritimum by a landscape architecture firm with offices in London: https://davisla.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/crithmum-maritimum/

@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b), If its Timothy Hay, Orchard Grass or Alfalfa Hay etc. that is bagged for small critters it probably doesn't have weed seeds in it. I don't know why but I've never seen seeds in the small animal bagged hay or grasses.

Our alfalfa hay that comes in the big giant rolls or square bales hasn't had any seeds that sprout either that I've noticed. I actually wouldn't mind if I did get some alfalfa seed or Timothy seeds sprouting etc. because I could pull it up and feed it back to the goats lol.

I have thrown our parrot cage droppings out on the flower beds from time to time and had millet and sunflowers sprout. I do free range our chickens and if they see sprouts, they go gobble them up. I have to fence off my veggie garden from the chickens.

One year, I bought some straw in a bag from Tractor supply and mulched my raised vegetable beds with it. (This was before I had goats and had to buy hay) That straw had some kind of seeds in it that sprouted all over the place. I was so mad, I had to pull it all out.

A note on compost: If your compost pile is getting hot enough in the center it should cook/kill the weed seeds. You can keep turning it from time to time, to make sure everything gets evely distributed.

Hubby has been making big rows of hay, and leaves etc he is planning to try the Ruth Stout method of growing some stuff this year. https://www.gardeningchannel.com/ruth-stout-gardening-method/

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida) I feed the giinea pigs Timothy hay, but I buy the big bales of it from Tractor Supply. Way more economical than the little bags marketed for small pets 😅 Hubby accidentally bought a big bale of alfalfa once and the pigs wouldn't touch it, so it got tossed into the front garden this past fall as mulch, we'll see what happens.

Alfalfa is a legume (bean family), not a grass, and probably not as likely to produce unwanted seedlings, given that it is cut when it just starts blooming, well before seeds have matured, or even started, as opposed to grass hay, which is cut at a later stage of seed maturation. It is relatively high in nitrogen, so might get somewhat "hot" as it decomposes. I'm shocked the pigs rejected it! A lot of alfalfa is grown in California, but you don't see that many volunteers outside of alfalfa fields.

Thats so true! The little bags are crazy expensive for what piddly amt you get.

Hay prices have went up so much since the Pandemic as it is, even the big bales!

If you can find a good place to store bigger bales, its always cheaper. When I used to have rabbits and no other farm animals or barn yet, I stored the big square bales of Timothy Hay in the back of my 1969 VW project Bus in the carport lol! It really was a perfect place to keep it dry.

I would reccomend ”mulches” that break down to enrich the soil. I use a cheap cow manure/sawdust blend, but lupin trash and sugarcane mulch are good too. Can you get coir chunk bales where you are? Apparently its good too, but I prefer to use it for my orchids.

You'd think in Florida... I could find a local source of sugar cane mulch that didn't involve a backhoe and a farm truck (I have neither). But no, so far, I've not found one. Hum... maybe if I call US Sugar direct and just ask them. ... Thanks Adam. Edit: Called US Sugar direct, had to leave a message....

@jacqueline9CA Should be noted that Preen (the regular formulation containing trifluralin) is extremely toxic to all aquatic life (and, possibly, bees), so potential run-off from the areas treated with it would be of concern for gardens with ponds and fish, like mine.

Is pesticide accumulation a concern for mulches collected from commercial growers like US Sugar (or any other)?

Magpie, Your hay weed & seed question got me curious, so I did a little bit of googling and it seems that first cutting of any type of hay will have the most weeds and seeds in it.

For Timothy Hay the second cut is most nutritious(more leaf vs stem etc) for rabbits and other critters that eat Timothy. For horses, the third cut of alfalfa hay is most nutritious.

So maybe if you can buy from a local farmer, you can try to get hay that is not the first cutting and stock up a little. Depending where one is growing hay, one can get a different amount of cuttings before frost. Hope this helps!

In the south we grow another legume hay called Peanut Hay. Our goats will always snatch that right up and snub the Alfalfa, if given the choice. I believe the Alfalfa is a little more nutritious but it isn't a huge difference. Our goats and Kunekune pigs do have good pasture available most of the year here.

In the Central FL Panhandle, there are farmers who grow Alfalfa although not to the extent of farmers on the west coast.

Sultry, we've got lots of local hay places so your info is so helpful for me! Thank you.

catspa, thanks for the info about the rock Samphire growing inland. I suppose it doesn't do that here because we don't have those conditions anywhere but the seaside. Interestingly, Danish Scurvy-grass, Cochlearia danica, a coastal species, is spreading here along roads which get salted in winter.

When I lived in Florida, all I used was oak leaf's as my mulch. Every February I would gather the oak leaf and pile them at least a foot deep in the rose garden. Then I would buy a couple of bags of Black Kow and spread it evenly over the foliage in the garden and water it in. I used mostly a general 10-10-10 fertilizer every 6 weeks or so. My roses were happy. Mother Nature would break everything down and by December 90% of it had naturally been composted in the garden.

Thats a good point Ken. I never rake up my leaves at all here. People in an HOA or stricter areas may not be able to do that but like you said, they could strategically place the leaves around their plants and mulch them with dirt, black kow, wood chips etc. Here in FL, I've seen Pine Fines in the nurseries in bundles too. They usually stack black Kow bags beside them.

I guess people use the fines as mulch as well. We have enough pines dropping needles so I just leave those on the ground along w the leaves. I have read the leaves are good habitat for good insects to overwinter in. Its a win win win..I can be super lazy and feed the plants & contribute to wildlife lol.

Black Kow was pretty sandy the last time I used it. Its been a few yrs since I bought some. It seems like prior to that, it used to be more manure and less sandy dirt. I would try and get some from a ranch or farm if possible. I dont think the black cow is that good of deal but it is convenient.

I've seen composted chicken manure and bat guano in bags at Ace Hardware.

The Ace Hardwares in FL have some surprisingly amazing plant nurseries. Some have Koi ponds huge tropical greenhouses etc. No telling what you will find in there.

One can also use composted manure or alfalfa pellets to make 'Tea' for the plants. The roses seem to love the alfalfa tea but it does reek lol. Keep it in a 5 gal bucket or larger trash container with a lid. I forgot about one, for the summer, one time and we were all daring each other to open it 🤮😅