Each region of the country is a little different.. From wasted amounts of dollars in north east, I can tell you, that HTs, floribundas, grandiflorias, etc.. just do not hack it year after year.. Sure with deeply buried grafts and some winter covering, they will last longer, but after trying dozens of these varieties, I found one that did OK in my zone and that was Sunset Celebration, that would typically have around 6 inches of cane left, it did very well for 4-5 years and wasnt a complete blackspot disaster as well. Granted I havnt tried every variety, but where I had them was basically in front of the house at the time, I just wanted lower bushes becuase the windows were not high there. No worries there as they never got above 4-5 feet max in any giving year. I tried alot of the popular ones, ala Oklohoma, Mr Lincoln, Double Delight, Sunset Celebration, Christinan Dior, I cant really remember all of them now, Oh I know I had a Queen Elizabeth in there as well. I tried alot more including stuff like Victorian Spice. But I couldnt picture not buying repeat flowering varieties at the time.. I pictured dozens of blooms throughout the season. I spend hundreds of dollars on these.. none of them lasted more than 4-5 years really. Then I discovered gardenweb, I also relized that my garden season is pretty short, mid june to late august. A OGR rose that blooms for 4-6 weeks can be a third of my season. Alot of these also are highly fragrant, BS resistand and hardy. I basically order 4-5 hardies now and a couple of moderns a year or remonont ones that I try to keep alive. Even though I had very good success with Austins in my zone 5a (close to 4b garden) , they hated my move to my new house, I lost alot of these for some reason.. even though I didnt lose a one of my OGR's the austins after transplant just shrivled and died on me, except for the hardiest varieties, they all appears to have survived in thier pots covered over winter, but I guess they just didnt like it. Bucks did nothing for me, I tried over a dozen of these that died as well.. The one caveat is I didnt try some of the hardiest ones like applejack or quiteness, basically becuase I had two dozen austins at the time , alot were already pink or pink blends and I didnt see room on adding these. I tried all of the blends that looked nice to my eye, and they all died, winter sunset, prarie sunrise, harvest, honeysweet... etc.. none of them made it here. Its up to you, but to me, plant where you live, if your willing to take the losses, plant what you like. But there are hundreds of different roses that are hardier than HT's that have great form and fragrance, including OGR's and some modern shrubs. Silverkelt

Interesting Post! I've been an advocate of own-root roses for several years, but I have to admit grafted (if healthy) almost always seem to grow bigger (or at least as big). A main reason I like own-roots is they seem particularly well-suited to life in a pot, so Ceterum's question about growing them first in a pot might actually be a key factor to success. I know from experience that roses on Fortuniana (down here in the South, at least) will grow the biggest of all. That's precisely why I avoid it. Dr. Huey I don't like simply because the root structure is one of long central tap-roots that always find their way quickly out the bottom of the pot and aren't happy confined. But small doesn't always mean weak or unhappy. I heard a rule of thumb years ago that seems to be mostly true; that varieties which tend toward bushiness/many branches will tend also to develop good roots. I've had many own-root roses, about half of them minis but the rest mostly hybrid teas, and the HTs vary a lot. Many old and newer do great own-root; some don't. I've lost count of the roses I've given to neighbors and friends because they had gotten too big to be happy in pots. Once in the ground they quickly get even bigger. But back to Ceterum's question about letting the young roses mature some first in pots: Maybe that's the key. The one's I've given away after 2-4 years tend to do terrific in the ground; they've had lots of time to build up a good root system in friable potting soil and without competition from neighboring plants and trees. Incidentally, some of the hybrid teas I've grown own-root that did very well include: Paradise, Gold Medal, the old HT Mrs. Herbert Stevens (really more of a tea), Lady Luck, Fragrant Plum, Tiffany, Helmut Schmidt, Touch of Class, Artistry, Timeless, and Olympiad. Radiance is OK own-root, but I wonder if it would do better grafted. Some new ones for me that look promising are Deep Secret(kind of slow its first year but now looking bushy and vigorous, though still short, its 2nd spring), Dame de Coeur, Lagerfeld (still kind of gangly but growing big--I only got it last fall), all 3 I just got from Roses Unlimited, including Jardins de Bagatelle, Chrysler Imperial, and Papa Meilland (Ceterum had cautioned that PM may take 3-4 years to come into its own, but already it had 3 flower buds and it just came in mid-March. JdB has already produced 4 gorgeous blooms and seems to want to repeat rapidly, even continously! CI looks great too. Alec's Red is 1 year old and small but healthy and blooming well. A few HTs I thought were happier grafted include: Fragrant Cloud, Mr. Lincoln, Valencia, Just Joey, Double Delight, and Honor. The others I'm excited about are all mini floras or minis, so I guess they don't count for this discussion, since they're always own-root. But Man! Leading Lady and Whirlaway might as well be small hybrid teas, the blooms are so big and perfectly formed!

Hi Saki Glad these comments were helpful, and we're always eager to help a beginning rose grower feel confident with their roses. The photo you posted is a lovely and very mature specimen of what looks like two or maybe even 3 climbing roses all splayed out horizontally along the fence. You can see one "fan" of canes spreading out from just right of center and another fan spreading from the left 1/3 of the photo. I can't tell if the cane stretching straight up in the center is part of a third plant with a few lateral canes or not. This effect is definitely a great thing to strive for, but I'd be totally depressed if I tried to get all my climbers to look like this, since not all climbers put out as many primary canes coming straight out of the soil as this one does. I'll show you two contrasting climbers for example. Colette looks the most like the photo above with several canes coming straight out of the soil that I'm encouraging sideways on my fence. Do remember that climbing roses have to be secured in some way to the fence - they won't climb on their own like clematis or other vines will. Mine is probably 3 years old, and you can see that it has three main canes out of the soil (I usually call them primary canes in a climber, but they come out of the base and I presume the terms are the same thing). Mine is own-root so there isn't a graft from which these canes split off, but if I'd buried my graft the 2-4" that is recommended in cold zones, it would look a lot like this too. Now, the reason you distinguish between primary canes and laterals in a climber, is that your blooms aren't mostly going to be directly on those primary canes that you bend sideways. Even in a young climber like this, you can see that the blooms are in smaller off-shoot canes that branch off vertically from these horizontal main canes - we call these lateral canes. The main/primary canes are toward the bottom of the fence, but the blooming laterals stretch up a good 2-3' higher than the primary canes. The more horizontal you can stretch your canes, the more likely the rose will put out laterals all the way along the length of those primary canes. That means you can have a fence full of blooms from only a few primary canes, even if the rose puts out a limited "fan" of canes. As Colette ages, she might put out more base canes, but I doubt I'd get the rich "forest" of canes in the photo above even when she's mature - particularly in any climbers that lose cane over the winter. Still, I'm confident she'll fill this part of the fence in another 2 years or so. Here's another rose that for me grows in a somewhat different habit. I've only seen one primary cane off the base of my Lunar Mist, and it's more like 4-5 years old. I bend it sideways in the same way as I do the Colette above, and it sends up laterals all along the length. Same principles of laterals and primary canes as above, it's just that the base of the rose is at one end of the array and the blooms arch off to one side off the primary cane that I've bent sideways. You can't quite see the base of Lunar Mist here, but it's off to the right and below the picture here, below where the clematis is. My New Dawn never got mature in the poor location under my oak tree, and we'll see what the new grafted version wants to do now, but at the moment it just has one big cane that I've stretched sideways like the Lunar Mist above. Climbers are very different when young vs. when mature, though, so you have to be patient with them. It usually takes at least 4-5 years before a climber has built up enough root structure to support a robust blooming rose, and not all of them will build this kind of fan structure very widely. Some will be more of a "rainbow" like my Lunar Mist. Regardless, the principle is the same and we encourage more growth of canes from the base in climbers as we do in any rose, with adequate water, maybe some alfalfa to encourage basal breaks, and patience, patience, patience. The rose will "tell" you what it wants to do over time. Just be sure to bend the young canes sideways when it's young, as robust climbers like New Dawn can get pretty stiff and woody in their primary canes over time, and they're much harder to bend. Hope that helps. Cynthia

Heirloom has New this year South Africa, but Chamblees had it last year. I find the price difference an insult on my intelligence. It's not double the price, it's more like 4 times. One of the last google reviews I read on Heirloom said they were the only place that sells own root roses. I don't know if the person was lying, or really doesn't know any better. Where would they even get an idea like that? I asked my husband how much those huge bags of Black Kow cost from last year, after seeing they had 1 pound of manure for almost 9 dollars. He informed me that the 50 lb bags were less than 5 dollars. Being a little overpriced doesn't annoy me that much, but that's not a little. They are ridiculous. I feel bad for anyone that is shopping there, if they think those are normal prices. I know it's probably a last resort for people that really want something not available elsewhere, but I wouldn't give them a dollar. The warranty description kind of contradicts it's self too. Everything that rings an alarm bell for shadiness is on that website. (at least for me) No judgement intended on anyone that likes them. Edit I agree Moses it can't be so expensive. A good example is ARE. Huge plants, for less than half that price. My order from ARE had canes as large as bare root grafted, yet were more than 50% cheaper than their 1 gal. I don't see how they are staying in business, but I guess you don't have to sell much at those prices.