Roses in South Florida Zone 10b Humid: Pot or Plant? Own Root/Graft?
Kimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months ago
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malcolm_manners
2 months agolast modified: 2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b) thanked malcolm_mannersRelated Discussions
Rose Recommendation for Zone 10b
Comments (7)Hi, SFL, I don't know how similar Zone 9a and Zone 10b are. I imagine you get NO chill time, and I'm wondering how is your soil? 300 miles is a long way, putting us pretty much in different worlds even in the same state. But I'll give it a shot. The main similarity is heat & humidity!! There's a good small book called 'The Southern Queen: Growing Beautiful Roses in the Tropics' by Latimer C. Farr about growing roses in South Florida. I got mine in a local rose society drawing, and I can't find any for sale online. As to the nematodes, if you're going for HTs and other moderns, they definitely should be on Fortuniana. I grow Tiffany on Fort and two Chrysler Imperials probably on Dr Huey so they're in big pots. Both are on Farr's HT list. I have a very early HT (pre-1895) called Madame Abel Chatenay (own root) which I love, she's healthy but loses her leaves in Jan & Feb. Farr has a pretty long list of moderns that do well down there. Probably your local rose society would be the best source for a list. I don't grow David Austins. Belinda's Dream is a good modern one. She gets very big here. Hmmm, don't they all? Old Garden Roses, especially Chinas, have some resistance to nematodes so they can be grown on their own roots. (I have 100+ roses, mostly own root.) And it has been found that nematodes don't like organic matter and heavy mulch including concrete slabs & foundations, so organics is the route I take for nematode deterrence with OGRs like Teas, Noisettes and polyanthas that aren't 100% China. I incorporate a lot of composted horse manure and pine fines (close to 50%) into the bed before planting and topdress every spring with composted horse manure on top of the old mulch and add new mulch. (I didn't know that clay could be obtained and added to the soil when I did my beds, but if I were starting over, I would try to get some for water and nutrient retention. I don't know what type of clay is preferred.) This year I've started watering daily with a micro system for 30 minutes in the early morning. When I watered every other day, my bushes stayed almost leafless all summer even with thick mulch. So! Which roses? Louis Philippe is the best, a beautiful red/pink flower with cherry candy scent. Easy care, virtually no BS. Another China that I love is Le Vesuve along with Jean Bach Sisley & Old Blush. Teas are great. They love the heat and come in a variety of colors and bloom forms. Some favorites are Maman Cochet, General Schablikine, Mrs B R Cant, Anna Olivier, Duchesse de Brabant, Madame Antoine Mari, and many more. The Bermuda Roses work well. I like Carnation. Noisettes and Tea-Noisettes are generally climbers that like heat and tolerate our humidity. They get fairly huge here. Cile Brunner Spray, LeMarne & Perle d'Or do very well in Florida. I have had less success with Hybrid Musks probably because of my soil pH and they tend not to like heat & afternoon sun. For climbers Don Juan does well enough here but does get BS. Mine is on Fortuniana. I have own root Sally Holmes & Pink Perpetue, both are recommended by Latimer Farr along with New Dawn, Sombreuil & Clair Matin. The short Bourbons in the Souv de la Malmaison clan do well albeit with some BS but have beautiful flowers and extended blooming, and Farr says Maggie does well, too. I found that Maggie got more BS than I could handle so she's gone, but you have to establish a tolerance level for that. Hope this is helpful. I hear the soil in South Florida can be really shallow on top of limestone. What's your situation? Hi, lagomorphmom! Sherry...See MoreWhy own-root roses are healthier than grafted?
Comments (34)Today January 2, I dug up Comte de Chambord, grafted of Multiflora rootstock. Bluegirl had it for a few years in her alkaline Texas, didn't bloom well so she gave to me, since I have more rain. As multiflora-rootstock, Comte bloomed OK in spring but stingy afterwards, while my 2 other Comte as OWN-ROOT bloom profusely with 4 flushes until snow hit. I have Comte-on-multiflora for 2 years. It's so stingy in the summer I moved it next to the rain-spout in July. Its root was the same size as my marigold !! It became even stingier, despite my using the entire bag of coarse sand to make my clay fluffy. So I dug up Comte grafted on multiflora today, Jan 2, and IT WAS THE MOST PATHETIC multiflora rootstock that I had ever seen in my 3 decades of growing roses !! I already posted the study that showed Fortuniana-rootstock produces more blooms than Dr. Huey, and Dr. Huey produces more blooms than multiflora-rootstock. Left side is Comte de Chambord grafted on multiflora rootstock, right side is a snapdragon annual flower root (sown from seed !!). The snapdragon-flower root is actually larger than the multiflora-rootstock. This 4+ year-old Multiflora-rootstock actually SHRANK in my alkaline clay, despite tons of acidic rain. And it REFUSED to give me own-roots at the side like Dr. Huey-rootstock. Picture taken today, Jan 2 at 39 F or 4 C. Re-post info. from Oct. 2016: Comparing Dr. Huey-rootstock, Multiflora-rootstock, and Fortuniana-rootstock from below link, worth reading: http://roses4az-mevrs.org/wp-content/uploads/An-Overview-of-Fortuniana.pdf Here in the Desert Southwest, with our generally alkaline soils and extreme temperatures, we find that r. multiflora has a shorter life span, losing its vigor after five years. While fortuniana bushes had superior root systems, they had difficulty with the harsh & cold English climate. In a study over several years, Dr. McFadden budded two hybrid tea varieties, Queen Elizabeth and Tiffany, onto three different rootstocks. After counting the number of blooms produced over many growing seasons, the varieties budded onto fortuniana produced significantly more blooms. The fortuniana plants produced about THREE TIMES the number of blooms as those on multiflora and TWICE as many as on Dr. Huey. Additional benefits of Fortuniana include increased resistance to gall, stem dieback, and root disease, such as Phytophtora and Pythium. Bushes planted over 40 years ago in Florida are still thriving. On this rootstock, plants are heavier feeders, as they have five times the feeder roots of more common varieties." http://roses4az-mevrs.org/wp-content/uploads/An-Overview-of-Fortuniana.pdf...See MoreHelp please. I want to grow some roses in pots in south florida
Comments (10)I have a lot of experience with planting roses in pots. Consider why you want to use pots instead of planting your roses in the ground. If you want to keep your roses in pots for a long time I would consider a larger pot (10gal+) such as: I got this one at Costco ($20) a few years back. Now, if you want to pot up your roses temporarily for the purpose of giving your roses a head start, which is what I did this past year, I would recommend using cheaper nursery pots (the big box stores don't sell these, I buy mine from Diamond Fertilizer for around $1 each). I go all out and create my own potting mix by mixing top soil with compost, Perilite, granular fertilizer, and peat moss (1 bag + 1 bag + ten cups + 3 cups + 5 cups). It's an inexpensive way to pot up several dozen roses, but is very labor intensive. I used to mix in the crystals for hydration, but I didn't see much of a difference so I cut out the expense. I have found that the Miracle Gro Rose Soil is good, but I get the same outcome using the competitions garden soil (it costs around $6 a bag). I did cover my garden beds in professional grade ground cover to stem off the weeds and prevent the roses from rooting down in the ground, as this sets them back a bit when you have to relocate the pot and tear up the roots in the process. I only have a problem with needing to raise the roses off of the ground during the extreme wet months, and even then there's no predicting what will happen. I have planted several roses on Dr. Huey directly into the ground and the average life span runs between three and five years with very good care. The ones that survive past five years are those that set off on their own roots and tend to be very hardy (Don Juan, Sonia, Mister Lincoln, Queen Elizabeth, etc.). You will have to keep to a regular spray program in order to achieve success with these roses. I've found that planting these roses close to a house tends to increase their success. Unfortunately, I've had limited success with those bagged roses once placed in the ground. They are extremely difficult to start to begin with. Once you DO get them started, they tend to be less healthy than potted roses you'd find in the garden center (my experience). Try posting pictures of your situation for better feedback. Good Luck! -Adrian....See MoreIs Madame Anisette worth growing in Florida zone 10b?
Comments (8)Thank you everyone for responding! I have pulled up everything I can find on this rose and read everything on here that I could find. I was thinking the 3 year wait on getting a decent flush would be worth it considering it's nice healthy dark leaves. I have not played with roses in over 20 years out here so am having fun doing some catch up on what is going on and all the new varieties. I am an avid gardener and pretty much grow 90% of what I eat now. I also do lawn and ornamental work so deal with all the diseases and soil problems on a weekly basis. Yes Purilisa, the nematode pressure is high in many area's here. I am going with all Fortuniana rootstock except for this one because it seems that it probably does not do as well grafted from all I have read. I just received 4 roses yesterday from KandM and do like his quality. I asked him about MA on the phone and he said he could not get it to bloom so does not carry it for resale. I do not know if he trialed it on it's own roots along with a grafted version to compare and if he gave it enough time to show it's worth. I also wanted Amazing Grace and that one will be another challenge from all I have read....See MoreKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agodianela7bnorthal
2 months agolast modified: 2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b) thanked dianela7bnorthalKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agolast modified: 2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agomalcolm_manners
2 months agosharon2079
2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agolast modified: 2 months agomalcolm_manners
2 months agoKimberly Wendt (Florida Z. 10b)
2 months agosusan9santabarbara
2 months ago
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sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida)