Kim, In general, I am a proponent of 'Fortuniana' roots, since their performance is predictable. Contrary to popular belief, a plant on Fort does not use any more water than a plant OF THE SAME SIZE on other roots; the thing is, as you suggest, the plant on Fort may grow larger and, therefore, need more water. But a root system doesn't "use" any significant water; rather, it supplies the top of the plant, which is what determines the rate of water loss.

But we often make the mistake of comparing a Fortuniana-rooted rose to "own root." The danger there is that we tend to forget that there is no such thing as a generic "own root;" rather, if you grow ten different OR varieties, you're actually growing on ten different root systems, and each will perform in its own, unique way. So you may find some great successes, and plants nearby may be failures. Each root system will have its own characteristics.

My sister in 10b Broward County very successfully grows Spray Cecile Brunner on its own roots. Pink Pet/Caldwell Pink is also excellent on its own roots there, as are pure Chinas, such as Louis Philippe, Old Blush, and Napoleon. Some of the Bermuda Mystery Roses, such as Smith's Parish, should also do well on their own roots for you.

With complex hybrids, such as the Austins, you may just have to experiment, realizing some won't be successful, no matter what you do with the soil.

I think if I lived in a nematode infested area , I’d only put Fortuniana grafted roses in the ground, (or a variety with well known nematode resistance as an own-root.) Let’s say 20% of rose varieties form own-roots that are nematode resistant (I think that’s being generous). So if I planted 10 own-root roses, in a few years, all but two of them would succumb to nematodes. I don’t like those odds, that’s too much loss for me. Nematodes render a plant worthless, so I’d prefer to avoid it altogether rather having to resort to chemical treatments. It’s not like blackspot or mildew where you can treat it and still have a nice plant.

As for pots, I find that I have to root prune and repot after about 5 years if I want the plant to continue to perform well. It’s not an enjoyable task, so I’d only pot as many as I’m willing to do that for. Potting soil just isn’t a permanent medium . I do agree that plastic drums can’t be transformed into beautiful pots. I do think they are less of an eyesore if painted an earthy color they look better (mine came bright blue, so I painted them with rustoleum bronze)

Thank you to BenT and malcolm_manners. Great insights. Ben, I was thinking a Rustoleum satin finish Warm Caramel! Or maybe choosing 3 coordinating colors (pink, yellow, orange) for a whimsical approach to pot colors, lol. And Malcolm, amazing your sister (who is south of me) is having success. If you have any other advice from her experiences (or if sister is ON this formum!) thank you in advance. I will put those roses listed on my short list. Spray Cecile Brunner and LP are already on my 'radar' so this is added confirmation. The Bermuda Mystery roses? wow... just the NAME intrigues me.... must be a great story there. I'll look it up.

Ben, if I use super large pots, do I have to repot? Or can I carefully change out some soil (like on a rotational basis - 1/3 of pot's soil refreshed/year) or something like that? Maybe less disturbing of roots? I'd change out the soils after a prune...

malcolm, I also wanted to say thank you for educating me on water use/fortuniana/root systems. You wrote, " But we often make the mistake of comparing a Fortuniana-rooted rose to "own root." The danger there is that we tend to forget that there is no such thing as a generic "own root;" rather, if you grow ten different OR varieties, you're actually growing on ten different root systems, and each will perform in its own, unique way. So you may find some great successes, and plants nearby may be failures. Each root system will have its own characteristics."

Seems a simple comment - but I feel like a better understanding just exploded in my head. They are not 'all' the same, each bush is an 'individual' and will require individual observation, attention, care, etc. I'm so glad I found this forum/Houzz.

My parents are in Miami zone 10b. I have sent them more than 20 David Austin’s in Dr. Huey and at least the same number of own root plants from Heirloom. All of them just barely grow and linger with some beautiful blooms here and there. Some chinas have done well in their own roots but not many others. To give an idea of roses that have not done well even with some spray which have been mystifying to me:

Madame Anisette

Dark desire

New Dawn

Knockouts

Veilchenblau

Eden

Boscobel

Desdémona

Scepter isle

olivia

Raspberry cream twirl

Strawberry hill

This is a quick list off the top of my head. Madame Anisette here gets to 12 feet tall within a couple of years own root. After trying all these we are ready to start with Fort rootstock. Also Fort is supposed to have very deep vigorous roots so the part of developing very shallow roots is also surprising (maybe needs more time)

In your zone I would start by selecting roses that are known to be blackspot resistant. (Lives out many hybrid teas and Austin’s unless you are committed to spraying)

Ideally plant roses that known to do well in the area but this can be difficult since a lot of times it is hard to find anyone growing roses.

My parents have grown Mrs. Dudley Cross very successfully own root in the ground for over 20 years. The small popcorn drift has done great in pots. The Austins have done better in pots than in the ground, possibly because they use potting soil free of whatever nematodes are around and good watering practices. They use clay pots around 30 inches tall. These are not easily rearranged but they aren’t super huge.

Here is my pot. theirs are the same. Theirs are 5 years old and work.

Sorry for such a long post. I would stick to fort rootstock if nematodes are a concern in your area. Then, I would select a few in Huey and own root and give them a try since you can’t never truly know unless you try it.

Your selection of Austin are beautiful but you will have to spray most of them religiously if you want to have perfect leaves. Your selections are some of the healthiest ones tho and many can be grown no spray if you are ok with some foliage loss.

Hi dianela, thanks so much. Yes, I've been told by rose society members that Dr. Huey is known to not perform well here in 10b at all (5 years or less, failure to thrive).

If it helps anyone, the Austins on my list are the ones specifically recommended by David Austin themselves (several calls to DA and speaking with rosarians there - and in the UK too. Nice people). I'm told that these are the best for super hot AND super humid. The list is different for those in hot/dry climes. On the DA rose website, you can search filter by hot/dry and hot/humid, but CALL them directly to speak to someone about your situation and microclime. The website is good, but DA people can tell you more. When searching and reading these discussions, I found that someone actually got a physical LIST from DA regarding best roses for hot climates. (Thank you to whomever that was). She posted a picture. I then did what she did - called them directly. DA also suggested that I should provide afternoon shade (hottest time shade) to avoid scalding.

You are so right, this is a tough place to try and grow roses unless you have a mansion sized greenhouse/solarium or something. lol. I'm not going to expect perfection. Not possible. I'm fairly new to roses - lots of research, but little practical experience (unless you count spraying/pruning apple trees lol). Let the adventure begin, right?

I have another question for you: Where did you get that pot? lol. 30" tall and looks to be almost as big diameter-wise. Wow. I can't find anything that big for less than a couple hundred bucks. That's a bit beyond my means...

Oh, and my home is physically within 3 miles of the ocean... we get a lot of breezes throughout the day... which will help with blackspot. Unfortunately, will also help spread thrips and aphids around. My back veg garden just this week has decided to grow aphids instead of vegetables!

Kimberly

I am Zone 10b WPB area.... I live on the Intracostal.... Things that you will have to also consider is salt.

After gale and hurricane winds be prepared to wash the salt off of leaves. I do not find that the salt helps with blackspot. The temp in the summer kind of keeps BS away but you will still experience it in the winter time.

I have grown Cecile Brunner (died in a flood) but did quite well for 15 plus years. I also grow Pink Pet. IT is still growing strong. Some 20 plus years on own root.

I have had several own root David Austins that grow well on own roots.... (I current do not have these again do to the floods over the last two years) Pat Austin, Evelyn, Carding Mills, Jude the Obscure (but did not bloom well), Princess Alexander of Kent.

I still have David Austin's Spirit of Freedom. Mine does not bloom much, but I have a friend who has this on fortunia wood stock in Broward County and hers blooms a lot. If I could find it on fort, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

In that same flooding area I have an Annie Laurie McDowell and it handled the flooding.... it did drop leaves but it survived. It is fairly new to me, but has gone through two of our summers so I know it should continue to hold up well. I also have a Lavender Crush also own root in that area and it does quite well.

You stated that you have been watching the sun for weeks.... has that included a summer as well..... the sun makes a huge jump in Florida. I am from Missouri and it was noticeable there, but here in South Florida my shaded area now is full sun in summer and vice versa. I would recommend that if possible put the roses so that they have shaded area in the summer and more full sun in the winter.

I am replacing Beverly which is a HT (but thinks it is a shrub). It is quite clean from disease in our area. It is quite fragrant, The open blooms look a lot like DA.s

I prefer my roses in the ground. I have WAY too much problems with them in pots.... They out grow the pots (and I have huge pots) The roots get too hot in the summer. I can't regulate the water in the summer.... too wet or too dry. Though I do know others who have done it, but I have came home from a weeks vacation and the people who have watched them will off a couple of plants....

But if you plan on putting them in the ground I would build a raised bed. Ubunfortunately I did NOT do that...... But be prepared to keep amending the soil. I originally dug out a four feet down and four feet wide strip behind the whole house and replaced it with horse manure.... I let it compost into good soil and then planted.... by fall it was all gone and back to sand. I have no idea where all the god nutrients go, but I have to add new compost twice a year. But with that said, I finally have earthworms.

I too was told to have a cottage garden to keep out bad bugs..... and good bugs in.... That has not worked to good. I find that the bad bugs (especially the orange/black milkweed bugs) climb over on the roses and eat them even when the books say they won't. I have tried salvia's but they get cushion or spittle bugs that travels to the roses in the summer. In the fall I can plant alyssum and dill around them with no problems. My friend who has the Spirit of Freedom taught me to grow a lot of the annuals and cottage flowers, plus zinnias and blackeyed susans in another part of my garden. It brings in the good bugs to eat the bad bugs, but the bad bugs don't seem to get on the roses this way.... or at least not as bad.... When trying to do a cottage garden here we do not normally get enough air flow for the roses....

You will no doubt get FLA specific answers to the root question, and I think in your climate / soil conditions, getting LOCAL advice is best.

I have one suggestion about your "full sun, Southern exposure" back yard. Does anyone near you, or a member of a nearby rose society, grow banksias at all? They love full sun and heat, and tend to bloom in the early Spring, before other roses (at least in my zone 9 trending towards 10 garden). I had two of them on the wall of my house, in a Southern exposure, and they loved it. There is even a hybrid banksia which stays smaller, and blooms more (Spring flush plus scattered bloom the rest of the season), than the classic white or yellow ones. I am certain it can be kept as small as you like by pruning right after its Spring flush finishes, because I did that. I just thought you might want to try ONE of this rose in your back yard, to see what happens. A shame to have all of that sun and not have a rose! The banksias do not scorch, and do not get ANY diseases, and are not water hogs. Just a thought -

Jackie

Jackie, Unfortunately it has been our experience that the banksias don't flower well here. Apparently they need at least a bit of winter chill. And West Palm Beach would get less chill then we do. So I have to wonder if they'd flower. Maybe Purezza?

I agree with Malcom_manners. No one I know grows it and when I originally asked about it I was told it needed a chill time.

Wow, thanks everyone. Super info. I just thought to check in with Deb/Goeff at Cool Roses. Cool Roses grafts onto Fortuniana but has own root roses too. On their admittedly NOT up to date website, they list the following as good roses for South Florida: Mr. Lincoln, Prosperity, Champneys Pink Cluster, Elina, Belinda’s Dream, Rosette Delizzy, Old Blush, Pink Pet, Louis Phillipe, Mrs. Dudley Cross, Cecile Brunner, Knockout, Mrs. B. R. Cant, Barbra Louise, St. Patrick, Home Run.

I also found this info about Fortuniana (bolding is mine): "But in the early 1940’s a professor at the University of Florida began working with a new rootstock called Fortuniana. This new rootstock proved to be an excellent choice for our more tropical environment. Roses grown on Fortuniana rootstock matured faster, produced more flowers and were resistant to diseases of the root, as well as attacks from soil borne nematodes. Fortuniana roses are able to thrive in our very wet summers and also in out dry winters. Fortuniana produces very large fibrous roots that are able to absorb more water and fertilizer than the “tap root” type roots produced by the Dr. Huey rootstock. The Dr. Huey root system is better suited for clay soils that do not drain like the sandy soils we have in South Florida . Because Fortuniana root stock roses have shallow-growing fibrous roots, you must stake your roses to prevent them from blowing over during periods of high wind. Next time you buy a rose bush, ask for Fortuniana rootstock roses, you’ll be glad you did."

Looked up Purezza.... Help Me Find.

Hybrid Banksia, Large-Flowered Climber, Rambler.

White or white blend. Strong fragrance. 12 petals. Average diameter 1.25". Small, semi-double (9-16 petals), cluster-flowered, in large clusters bloom form. Spring or summer flush with scattered later bloom.

Tall, climbing, thornless (or almost). Small, glossy, leathery foliage.

Height: 9'10" to 18' (300 to 550cm). Width: 10' to 12' (305 to 365cm).

USDA zone 6b through 9b (default). Can be used for garden, landscape or pillar. Heat tolerant. Disease susceptibility: very disease resistant.

Wow, am I starting to fall in love with some of these suggestions. Um.... I may have to create (ehem carve) out another bed. Most of your recommendations are are so beautiful.

Jackie, that's a great suggestion to try ONE rose out back, closer by the house. Right now I have all my veg and herbs out there - along with husbands tractor parts, bits, ladders and the like. Not exactly a beautiful place (that's why it's hidden from the front!) Right???? lol. I could put a short, thornless climber up the pillar with red birdhouse on it. Only about 6' high... but why not? FANTASTIC... I had never once considered that. Might help keep the d@$^ squirrels out of the feeder too!

Sharon, lots of great points. Thank you. Regarding the sun position. Yes, indeed. Check out this website for calculating inclination, declination, path, etc. for any lat/long... very cool tool. https://www.sunearthtools.com/dp/tools/pos_sun.php

Used my observations to prove the tool. And figure out how high my raised bed or pot system will have to be. The tool is spot on. Going by the calculations, I will actually have more direct sunlight streaming on the angle to the 'northernmost' roses during the winter. In the summer, the angle moves up to a few degrees south of straight overhead. As you said, a very great change. During the summer, the northernmost section will be 'protected' by tree canopies. A different section that is partially shaded by the roof line, will be full on sun. I'll have to watch those. There are some trees to the far west of the lot, that provide some sun sheltering from 3pm and on.

I did not begin physical site checks until mid December, when we learned that most of our front and side yards had to be destroyed due to a 50 year old set of 7 immense 40' tall areca palms started dying due to a Ganoderma fungus. Kills palms, spreads to palms. Never plant palms there again. Does not spread to other plants. It was a shock, and immediate response of lots of digging with a shovel and using a chainsaw. Needed a back hoe. We are still hacking and digging. But along the way, after topping 4 of them so far... the amount of sun to the front yard was literally night to day. THAT'S when 'gardens with roses!' thoughts started up.

The rest, as they say, will be history....

Pots like mine are available at different places in chrome avenue in Miami. They have a huge assortment of pots and sculptures, but yes they are pricey, it seems everything is these days.

Kimberly - I am so silly - I meant to recommend Purezza, which is the hybrid banksia which Malcolm suggested above, but I forgot to put its name in my last post. HMF says it is "almost thornless". If you can find it on Fortuniana (which seems to be the rootstock everyone from FLA is advising you to use), I would go for it. I know for a fact that banksias can be pruned down to any size you like, as a grocery store near my house has the yellow ones (banksia lutea) planted in ten 3 ft by 2 ft raised beds (with cement sides) which they use as automobile stops for parking spaces in their parking lot, and they grow them on 2-3 ft high metal trellises, and keep them relentlessly pruned down to the height of the trellises. They bloom prolifically every Spring for a long time. That is why I think Purezza could certainly be kept short enough for your pillar.

Malcolm, just saying, we don't get hardly any winter chill (meaning nights below freezing) at all here in some years, and my yellow banksia bloomed every Spring no matter what. However, FLA climate is of course WAY more humid than ours, so perhaps that has something to do with it, and Purezza is a better choice than the original yellow or white banksia.

Kimberly, if you decide to try Purezza, remember that banksias are a VERY old type of rose, and you cannot expect any of them to grow to maturity in a few months. If you plant one, remember the rhyme for climbing roses: "First year sleeping", (growing roots underground - not much activity noticed above ground - this is NORMAL), "Second year creeping", (putting out short canes which sort of flop around), "Third year leaping" (climbing canes appear, which will need to be trained as horizontally as you can - many people wrap them around pillars.

Good luck - and please let us know if you do decide to try one rose in your back yard. Your front yard design plans sound gorgeous - we would all like to see pics of both yards when you have platned the roses.

Jackie

Jackie, winter "chill" is actually collected between 32 and 55°F, with the ideal temperature for it being 32-45°. Below 32, no chill units are collected at all. (This is for fruit trees; we assume it works the same in roses, although as far as I know, no one has ever collected actual data with roses). So your area likely gets quite a lot more chill than we do. E.g., for California: Davis averages 800-1000 units, as does much of Marin County. For Florida, Tallahassee would get around 600; Gainesville perhaps 350. Here in Lakeland, we get about 150. In Palm Beach County, perhaps as little as 50.

Jackie, thank you for the little twist of humor... " If you plant one, remember the rhyme for climbing roses: "First year sleeping", (growing roots underground - not much activity noticed above ground - this is NORMAL), "Second year creeping", (putting out short canes which sort of flop around), "Third year leaping" (climbing canes appear, which will need to be trained as horizontally as you can - many people wrap them around pillars. "

We say that about Clematis too, right? lol. Maybe about kids.... come to think of it....

Yes, I'm getting them bare root... so a year 'behind' and baby them. You're right, I'm not expecting them to look decent for a few + years. I just want them to survive and do well. That is my goal. Hopefully, someday... maybe maybe... I can graduate to having something half as beautiful as the gardens of Diane or Yvonne or malcolm or... the list is great!

Jackie, Dr. Manners said what I was going to say about winter chill. In California, for stone fruits, they look for temps at or below 45 degrees for the number of minimum hours to achieve good fruit set. 45 is the magic number, and I always watch it to predict the year for my apricot and plum trees, and we usually get plenty. OTOH, I've had bad crops of them due to it being pouring rain and windy when they're blooming, but that's a whole other story!