Good thinking, Kath. I thought i was the only person who ever thought of these things, even if nothing is happening. And no, I havent ever been in that situation and hope I never am, but think you were wise to think about it.

I admit that I subconsciously look for exits. I also try to sit with my back against a wall when I am in a restaurant or bar. It is from a combination of things including a small place my parents took us to after seeing my grandmother before the long drive home for food. At first they were told no but the owner relented. The owner told my parents that if he suddenly ducked to get the kids on the floor. This was during a period the various crime family's were in conflict. He had been told that there was a chance that his place was on the list for firebombing. It did happen but much later that night. It and a couple of other happenings have made me cautious.

As much as people now seem to consider they are the only ones on this earth and go off when things do not happen the way they think they should taking note of your surroundings is becoming common for many more than it used to.

Great topic Kath. Nowdays i'm on the alert after day after day of hearing the news. it helps to read what everyone else has to say.

I took a self defense class put on by the Orlando SWAT team. That was one of the first things they taught. Always take note of where the exits are in any building. They also recommended pepper spray and mini stun guns (amazon).

When I was speed walking in the mall on a rainy day I couldn't hike the trail, I was figuring out where I would go at different spots on my walk in case there was a gunshot. When I got home that night I did see on local TV that someone was shot in the food court in a nearby city. These are the times we live in.

Well, I'm surprised to see this post. It didn't post yesterday after I thought I posted it and it was too long and I was too lazy to try and redo it. Now it's here??

Worst I remember was in the Returns line at Home Depot. The guy ahead of me was returning some thing that was obviously used for a while, and the cashier absolutely flipped out. I’ve never seen anything like it. She was screaming at him, and cursing at him for having this item to return. Finally a manager stepped in and sent her to the back and took the return. I was next, and I had some thing that was marginal for returning as well but I thought I may as well ask, but since the person before me had such a bad experience, they just took mine as well, but it was kind of frightening how she totally lost it. Really, I half expected her to jump over the counter and give the guy a punch in the nose. People can just lose it really fast and it’s frightening to see. Now in the age of guns everywhere, it’s scarier than ever.

Did anyone else see the video of the woman who set off a fire extinguisher at an airport? She was angry about something and sprayed everyone near her with the extinguisher. What the heck is going on in this world??

When in stores and other venues I also play scenarios in my head and look for exits and possible hiding places. It's sad isn't it?

Not that particular video, Dedtired, but have seen others of airport people losing it. I don't understand it, have been is situations where I missed flights, having to stay overnight in a hotel, missing a connecting flight etc...never have I yelled or cussed at anyone because of it.

I think the state of civil danger in this country and the lack of political will to raise us above the level of a banana republic with daily street violence is appalling.

Having said that, I think spending one's time always consciously looking for escape routes and safe places when out in public should "something happen" is extreme and unnecessary paranoia. The risks from a lack of public safety and the obscene proliferation of weapons are too high but still don't rise to a status of anything more than "most unlikely" possibilities for most of us. We can't happily live our lives with minute-to-minute consideration of reactions should any of the numerous "most unlikely" risks we face appear.

I remember that for a few months after the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, the continuing presence of aftershocks make me cautious about stopping my car, when in traffic, on or under bridges (some had fallen in the main quake). I remember that when entering old brick structures in downtown areas (which are not very common but can be found here and there) that I was conscious about not going in too far and remaining near the door. Again, some had fallen in the main quake and many were weakened and needed repair.

I was not alone with these behaviors but the feeling of need to follow these cautions passed for most people with time. It's not healthy (or necessary) to have conscious apprehensions and imagine risks to personal safety in daily life.

I get claustrophobic in department stores and malls because of the canned air, muzak and avaricious atmosphere. So I've always kept track of the nearest exit.

But I think people having public meltdowns is getting worse. And doctor's offices by definition are filled with stressed-out people.

Most people today grew up with instant response to whatever they wanted. Dinner can come out the microwave, literally in minutes. The internet provides information right away. Many people have never even experienced waiting for dial-up, much less waiting a week to get to the library. Never away from the phone and upset if their texts aren't answered immediately. It's not surprising that some people are incapable of sitting and waiting without knowing when the doctor will get to them.

I am also one of "those" who, when dining out, does not sit with my back to the door. I also take note of the exits, as well as who all is around me.

I have a plethora of law enforcement friends and family members, and I've learned much from them regarding personal safety.

Once, my very young daughter & I were in a JC Penney's when undercover police & security were apprehending a shoplifter. (Back when they actually did that) We were caught up in the middle of it. It was quite frightening. Fortunately, we were able to get out of the way and we left immediately. My daughter had nightmares about it for awhile.

So yes, I am always surveying my surroundings.

While I do not live my life in fear, I do live in a state of awareness.

You just cannot be too careful these days.

I think I'm a lot more conscious of the people around me these last months and particularly if I'm by myself. Underground parking garages for one example. Where I used to count on a confident purposed walk signaling 'don't approach me', now I'd rather DH is along. Even our Walmart parking lot down on the river, I've decided I'm not going back there during these short winter days. The last time I did, around Christmas and in pouring rain, I came out, put my purchases in the back of the car, got in and closed the door only to have a face immediately appear (and both hands on) my drivers side window just inches from my face. I was so startled I don't know what he was asking for, assume money which I never give to panhandlers.

But that wasn't the question quite as asked. I think the only time I've been concerned with someones odd behavior in an office I was at our Post Office in line. There was a young woman making all kinds of demands and a very loud scene. She wanted the post master who was not coming out. It had escalated to the point when my turn to step to the counter came, I asked the female clerk if she was going to be OK, if there was help in the back if the three women out front needed it. By then, the oddly behaving woman was trying to open the locked door to the back offices. I'm pretty sure drugs were involved, maybe contributing to a mental illness.

By the time I'd exited, was driving out of the parking, the police had her out on the street and she was fighting them wildly. Enough so that she lost her sweater top in the skirmish and was on our street with no top, wearing no bra. Still, the two patrolmen seemed to have things somewhat under control and I just kept going, didn't stay and gawk.

Movie theaters. I always note the exits and the fastest way to them. Fire concerns me as much a crazy people.

"I think spending one's time always consciously looking for escape routes and safe places when out in public should "something happen" is extreme and unnecessary paranoia."

Phrasing being aware of one's surroundings as "extreme and unnecessary paranoia" is a huge exaggeration. Several members of my family are in law enforcement and all say the same thing. That it's important to be aware of your surroundings when out in public. To know how to exit a venue if necessary, to notice the people nearby, etc. That's being prepared, not having "extreme and unnecessary paranoia."

Seems like this is about resigning oneself to the inevitability of gun rampages, mass shootings?

Hoping it never comes to that.

I've had mandatory active shooter training. It boiled down to run, hide, or fight.

And I do agree it's smart to note exits - there are other emergencies besides shooters, like fire for instance.

My concern is not about resigning oneself to shootings but accepting that things can happen and preventing as best as I can. Prior to all the shootings there were fires and fights where exits had been sealed or there was only one door in and out.

I don't think it's about "resigning" oneself to the inevitability of gun rampages. I think it's about being aware of what's going around you. I hope too it doesn't come down to being resigned to it. But the same solution to mass shootings isn't working. Sure, thoughts and prayers are nice and all - after a mass shooting has happened. But I'm not seeing any proactiveness for prevention.

Statistics for being involved in a gun rampage/mass shooting are rare. Suicide by firearm are more common than mass shootings. It's still important to be aware of one's surroundings when out in public.

Making firearms less accessible to suicidal people is a bigger issue than mass shootings.

Not shooting specific. But I grew up with a mindset of potential senarios and what to do with them. Bad crap can happen. I've had it happen to me, around me, and to people I know. I've also had some training that makes you more aware of what can go wrong- and how to think about it and just be prepared. I don't expect a fire everywhere I go, but often will note fire safety items. I also tend to pay attention to where bathrooms are and garbage cans if I'm doing something that might produce garbage.

There are different ways for people to deal with disproportional and what might even be described as irrational fears. They can be overcome, they can be ignored, or they can be passively accepted to the point that they produce overwhelming discomfort or unhappiness in particular situations. In my view, looking for escape routes and hiding places as a normal practice when entering a public place is not a reasonable way to deal with the realities of the modern world.

Law enforcement people deal with the most unfortunate and dangerous possibilities of human conduct. I don't consider them to be experts in giving advice on having healthy attitudes and practices about the world we all live in. Many have extreme views that develop, understandibly, from the extreme situations many have to deal with. An example - most would recommend every household should have at least one gun. I think it's well accepted that the presence of a gun in a house raises the likelihood of a resident or friend of a resident suffering a gunshot wound. I don't have a gun and would never have one. Do you have one?

Oh sure, people who have disproportional and irrational fears about being out in public have more issues going on than just being aware of their surroundings.

I don't personally own a gun but I live with a cop. We have a 2 ton gun safe where his firearms are locked up. I personally don't like guns but i don't care if other people own them.

I'm mildly amused and must ask why you mentioned the weight of safe? Does it matter? Sounds like a macho thing.

To convey that they are properly secured. There are a lot of firearms contained within it. Not sure why that's amusing. Your lack of knowledge of law enforcement is showing.

I don't think I'm paranoid. There have been more mass shootings in this country this year, then there has been days in it. It's insane and so is this country.

I look for additional exit possibilities ever since I was in a big box store when the electricity went out. It was cave dark. Fortunately, I was very close to a perimeter wall when the lights went out, so I could follow the long wall, turn a right angle to the intersecting wall which I followed to the front doors, which were already opened manually when I got there. Light was coming in at the doors, but nowhere else in the windowless building. I imagine these big buildings have generators nowadays for at least dim lighting.

So a 1 ton safe isn't secure? Why not a 5 ton one then?

Lack of law enforcement knowledge? Sure, why would most people have any? I also have no knowledge about flying airplanes or paving streets nor about hundreds of other things. Just like you and everyone else. I also have no interest. Why does it matter? Would that tell me that I need to wear a kevlar vest in public?

Struck me as an odd thing to say, nothing more.

@ Matthias - thankfully, almost everyone has a flashlight in their pocket or purse these days, and exit signs are generally required to be lighted with a failsafe power source.

Sephia's comments reminded of that recent shooting of a young teacher in VA by a 6 yr old. Along with the failure of admin. at the school to act on multiple warnings of the threat, it was reported that the gun was legally owned by the kid's mother, and that VA has laws requiring firearms to be properly secured by owners - which this apparently was not.

So a better approach to not appear argumentative and challenging might have gone something like this "hey, sephia, why the need for a 2 ton safe?" vs. being challenging.

• Do you have one? - what does my owning or not owning a firearm have to do with anything?
• I'm mildly amused - not sure what's so funny
• Does it matter? yes, the size of the safe matters
• Sounds like a macho thing - projecting some?
• I also have no interest - then why argue about what you're not interested in?

Challenging and arguing are a pattern with you. That's why people often point it out to you.

Those words were my frank reactions and thoughts.

Kathsgrdn - I don't have any thoughts regarding escape routes, but on reading about the seemingly enraged woman at the doctor's office, I wonder at what point they would call on security staff to deal with the issue. There should be zero tolerance for such disruptive behavior and it seems unfair to require medical staff to work in this environment.

In my own city, there is discussion about safety at our main public library. With its downtown location, it is used by many troubled people and before Christmas, a man was stabbed to death. There is added security in place now which eases the burden for library staff having to deal with issues unrelated to their primary jobs.

What security staff, I have to wonder? Plenty of Dr.'s offices are stand alone, not in high rises or large medical facilities with a security guard at the door.

And then there's the issue of security personnel in many places being basically little more than doorkeepers - not weaponized pros.

What's a "weaponized pro"? Most "security jobs" aren't much more than minimum wage positions.

In many such jobs, their responsibilities are often little more than keeping their eyes open and making a phone call if something unusual or not peaceful is going on.

Do you want to see those people we all encounter in various places carrying guns? I sure don't. That would make me feel less safe, not more safe. Police in the UK don't carry guns and they have a much lower rate of public shooting/murder incidents per person than we have here. Think about why, don't think too long.

Kath, your post was a good reminder to look for exits. I have to say I glide through life in a daze sometimes, not thinking about my surroundings or imminent danger but rather about things going on. That needs to stop, as it seems nowhere is too safe these days.

Back in 2020 when things basically shut down I started using YT for entertainment. I became fascinated with magnet fishing. Basically take a magnet and attach to a rope. I think the first one was in Holland and the second was in England. Both areas pull safes and cash boxes out of the canals and rivers of all sizes from small to very large. If there is a will there is a way to open a safe including the concrete lined ones. Most frequently they have been cut open either from the bottom or the back. As far as guns in the UK one member of the Northants group pulled over 100 out this past year in all shapes, sizes, and ages.

Stacy, I don't think they had security there, just a tiny little dermatology office in a small town. They would've had to call the police.

I always prefer to sit in public places with my back to a wall, or failing that, facing the door.

Here gun violence is extremely rare, but there was one time when we went to see an Irish band thart was performing here in the city. DH is a big fan of Irish music.

Tickets said doors were opening at 7, with the performance to start at 7.30. Everyone was lined up waiting to go in by 7, but the doors didn’t open until more like 7.45. Then when we got in and took our seats…nothing.

At about 8 or so a ”warm up” group who I have to think were hastily brought in when it was clear the main band was dragging their feet as they were clearly unrehearsed and just awful, came on stage and performed a couple of songs before they were called off stage and we were left to sit and wait.

At some point, a slideshow of old photographs of the Troubles and other poor British soldier- Irish inhabitant interactions appeared on the large screen at the back of the stage.

All this time the audience had free access to the bar and many took liberal advantage of this, so that when the band finally came on stage at about 9pm, they were well in the bag. We were close to the front and the front rows were clearly taken up by Irish immigrants or sympathisers who were rowdy (we’d seen them making many trips to the bar) and waving a large Irish flag which blocked our view of the stage.

The band had played about three or four rebel rousing IRA support-type songs, all with the continuing inflammatory slideshow and the atmosphere was electric. It truly felt like it wouldn’t take much to trigger a full on riot. I have never felt so uncomfortable in a public place in my life. (By contrast, we went to a Pogues concert in a tent previous to that and everyone was literally jammed in touching each other, and the only thing that bothered me was that it was really hot.)

DH stood up and said, ”Let’s go.” I was surprised as we never leave concerts early and as I said, he’s a big Irish music fan. But he (a policeman) was getting the same ugly vibes, that one false move and punches might well start flying.

I had friends who I knew were at the same concert, and I asked them how it had been for them. They replied that they were right at the back, but they too were picking up the same vibe and were looking around for the exits in case a quick departure became necessary.

It wasn’t fun. And ironically about two months later I had an email from the band’s publicity organisation selling tickets for another performance that was to take place in the coming year. Even if the atmosphere hadn’t been so riotous, the mere fact that they were an hour and a half late on stage without any apology from anyone at any point would not encourage me to attend another performance.