I went through Sleep clinic twice. I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and use a Bipap. I had no obvious symptoms, didnt snore, have headaches, wake up in a state of anxiety or anything else but my Hematocrit was entirely too high so my Hematologist wanted to know why. As a person who doesn't sleep soundly at the best of times imagine trying to get to sleep on your back (I do not sleep on my back) with a harness of wire coming off your head and so forth. Strange uncomfortable bed, wrong cover, not my pillows. I think both times I got in an hour and a half. Simply using a good pulse oximeter would have told them them same thing but then again it did eliminate other possible issues. The people were nice and helpful. Other than having a positive effect on my hematocrit level Hnmmm I cant say I sleep all that much better. Apparently your body can respond to low oxygen levels by making more red blood cells but too many make your blood thick. Well.

A friend of mine was experiencing odd symptoms that ultimately led to a workup by a cardiac surgeon and the determination that he needed surgery. Not on an emergency basis but not to be too much deferred. In a pre-surgical appointment, the surgeon was going over his health history and noted that a few years earlier, my friend had a sleep test that diagnosed apnea and he was prescribed a CPAP machine. The surgeon asked if he was using it nightly and the answer was, No, he'd given up using it after a few months. He splits his time between two houses and had found it inconvenient to have an extra item to carry along on the plane travel.

The doctor told him that in his opinion, the apnea could have contributed to the heart problems he was having. His reaction was that the travel inconvenience was a lame excuse to not use it and that problem was easily solved by buying a second machine. He said he wanted to defer the surgery for a month, during which time my friend was to begin and continue using the CPAP. If he didn't do so, the surgeon said he would prefer to not do the surgery and would refer him to another doc.

Sometimes reality bites. My friend has been a consistent CPAP user since that day. The surgery was done and better health and better feelings were restored. Oh, and better sleep too from using the machine.

There are many ways to treat apnea, a CPAP machine is only one of them.

Thank U, Mtn. Now I’m stuck at x.

The CPAP machine that I use is $570 used and $900 new, but I don't think it is still being made. New versions are over $900. Insurance will pay for a new one only every five years, unless it breaks down, which is what happened to the first one I had. I don't want to spend $900 for a second machine, but I do have to take mine with me every time I travel. I would like to have a second machine for Cathedral City.

Dedtired, animals that begin with X:

• Xanthippe's Shrew.
• Xantic Sargo.
• Xantus Leaf-toed Gecko.
• Xantus Murrelet.
• Xingu Corydoras.
• Xiphosura.
• Xerus.
• Xeme.

I think you may have to know some Greek names, but a lot of Mayan and Aztec names begin with X.

@Lars, I bet you're good at Scrabble!

Ded:

DH finally got his replacement cpap. He was one who got one of the units with the defective insulation that could be inhaled and cause cancer. Thank you very much.

Hmm, i cant understand why those x names didnt pop into my mind. All i could think of was xylophone bird.

Can anyone please explain what is done to allow someone to use the 'remote' control I see advertised as an alternative to using a C-Pap? Is there surgery to implant a device?

Funny - I hesitated clicking on this thread because it ballooned to over 100 replies so quickly, and I knew I wouldn't be able to read all the way through before wanting to comment, but early this morning, when I awoke after my usual 4 hours of sleep and reached for my device to read like I always do, I finally clicked on this and so far I've gotten about halfway through😄

I've realized what wakes me is often my bladder, and sometimes my stomach, and sometimes a rise in body temperature. I just try and relax, go with the flow, and read stuff in bed until I feel sleepy again. Sometimes it's a book, more often it's my newsfeed ( mostly advice columns and AITA topics from aggregators - total fluff) and NPR.org. I've been sleeping like this for years now. I'm usually awake for an hour to an hour and a half, then I go back to sleep for several hours - and it almost always works out to around 7 hrs or more total, so I know I'm OK. I'm very glad I don't have to get up early these days.

I do the intentional relaxation thing to facilitate falling back asleep - I find the tension is mainly in my head and face.

One thing I've learned recently is do not start scrolling through Instagram Reels! It's never-ending and before I know it, 2 - 3 hours have passed 😒

P.S. Re: reading on your phone, etc. - I use the reverse/ night mode with black background and white or yellow font - and I turn the brightness down as far as possible too.

I think it was perhaps easier when we were growing up and at a certain hour there was just static on the TV and no other source of entertainment, save reading.

I'm surprised to see a C-pap discussion in the context of insomnia. I think of them as unrelated? I didn't think sleep apnea sufferers had trouble falling asleep, but that the quality of their sleep left them unrested (among other issues).

I haven't read any of the replies but I've had insomnia for a month now. My restless leg med usually makes me fall asleep, but not recently.

I also lay in bed with a wondering mind and worry like you do. DO NOT LAUGH, but I found a trick. I think of myself in another lifetime hundred of years ago. And you can take it from there. ;) Been doing this for over a week and I'm asleep a lot sooner now. Daydreaming at night, that's what it is.

" I'm surprised to see a C-pap discussion in the context of insomnia. I think of them as unrelated? "

I don't pretend to know what experts know, beyond what I've been told by those with appropriate qualifications for the subject matter, but I think there are times these two sleep abnormalities are indeed inter-related. I do know that both are treatable. While both are common, both are disorders and are not conditions people need to suffer from indefinitely.

FWIW, I don't have any trouble falling asleep, and I don't take Ambien, but my cousin, a retired GP, recommended the OTC sleep aid Unisom - but only 1/4 - 1/2 a tablet - for when I really needed to sleep through the night. I didn't listen the first time and took a full dose, and then I understood why she did - it can really knock you out! It's an antihistamine, like Benadryl, but an older one that works a bit differently.

Sometimes I take 1/2 a Xanax, which does not leave me so groggy and gives me very interesting dreams.

I only use a pharma sleep aid when I have to get up early - which is rarely. I always take such things a good 12 hours before I need to be anywhere, so I'm sure the effects have mostly worn off.

Also FWIW, I'm not so sure that many people view their sleep habits as causing a big problem in their lives. Mostly, I see comments about how lots of people wake up after a few hours. Biphasic/divided sleep is not an abnormal condition. Seems like it's more a matter of people being somewhat idiosyncratic in how they adapt to it.

(I also think it a bit funny when people get huffy about others not appreciating their advice when nobody asked them for it 😄)

I’ve not slept well most of my life for various reasons.

Nowadays, reading my Kindle for a while will make me sleepy if I wake in the middle of the night. Once in a while I’ll take an OTC sleeping pill, the lowest dose.

I read this a while back and thought it was a fascinating look at history and the concept of segmented sleep:

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783

I’m certainly not a specialist in the field, but it is my understanding that sleep apnea can cause insomnia. Insomnia and restless sleep are symptoms of sleep apnea.

China: Insomnia and sleep apnea are separate conditions, but they can frequently occur together and exacerbate each other's symptoms

I agree, they are separate conditions (I apologize if I didn’t make that clear) and in some cases, insomnia can be a symptom of sleep apnea. I don’t imagine the vast majority of us posting here about our middle of the night insomnia solutions have sleep apnea, but it’s a relevant concern. Many people have undiagnosed sleep apnea- hey, I might be one of them! It’s pretty common, especially as we age.

I accept not being able to go back to sleep and try to make the two hours as pleasant as possible. I usually read.

The mention of a certain drink before bed reminded me of a tea we have here in Canada, that really works to put you to sleep - with herbs, not medication, that is. It's called Nighty Night Tea by Traditional Medicinals. Not sure if you guys get it in the US, you must though. I forgot about it and should get some next time I'm at the store. ZZZ I should mention that I listened to the person above who said not to get reliant on reading when you wake up in the middle of the night because then your body will be programmed to wake up to read. So the last couple of nights, instead of reading when I woke up at 2 or 3 am, I just relaxed and fell back to sleep. Miraculously. lol

You could be right about the reading habit in the middle of the night. It is my go-to routine.

Elizabeth, I do it too. I also fall asleep while reading, so it's not all that bad. But yeah, it can turn into a habit.

When I was younger and working, I used to read to fall asleep...worked great until I had to read something at work and then I'd find myself nodding off....

I read too before bed but it's in a tub of bubble bath water and if I fall asleep, it would be dangerous.

I grab a book

I watch tv. Or I just get up and do something productive. I do not often have trouble sleeping. When I do its usually because I am upset or worried about something. TV takes my mind off of whatever it is until I relax. I sleep with the TV on anyway so if I realize I am not going to fall asleep it just a matter of putting my glasses on so I can see it and turning it up.

I did not read all of the comments but I have problems with sleep. Sometimes while I do not feel any different time has passed. I do this frequently including this afternoon. Last night was one of those waking up frequently. I laid down at 1, woke at 2ish. Decided to lay there for a while so not to disturb the cat resting on me. Next thing I knew it was 4.

No source, just one of those things I see on my phone, was a suggestion if you have problems going to sleep stay awake 24 hours then go to bed at your regular time repeating as necessary. I will be trying it but having done a couple of 24 hour sleep study's I do not remember it making any difference in my sleep.

I had bought some of the stupidest things in the middle of the night when I couldn't sleep.

I don't sleep with any devices in my bedroom. Cell phones, tablets, wifi, etc. Maybe it will help some of you to not have your phones next to your bed. It will surely help with not enabling you to buy things in the middle of the night. ;) haha

My hub got up really early to go fly fishing (our son met him at our house) and I would normally not be able to go back to sleep-but did this time. Always have really weird dreams though, when I go back to sleep. I don't like weird dreams, so sometimes I go ahead and get up because of that.

Weird dream this morning: I was in a large college campus building and could not find my way out. It had many stairs and hallways, but could find no doors to the outside. I hate those kind of dreams. I don't know what it means, but I do feel like I have those type of dreams quite a bit.

I try to wind down with a relaxing book, and now I've combined it with about 30 minutes of "ambience sleep" videos on youtube. I don't watch the videos, just listen to the background sounds and occasionally look up at the images. I usually fall asleep pretty quickly. If I do wake up during the night I spend about 5-10 minutes reading on my kindle paper white. Low light setting. I tend to read kind of dull but interesting memoirs/biographies. Often can't get past the first paragraph.

For a while I was drinking a small glass of tart cherry juice, which I read helped with sleep and joint inflammation. It really did seem to work, but the juice is high in calories so I scratched it off my regimen.

I've been following along because I'm another poor sleeper, which started about 10 years ago. I have RA which was diagnosed over 20 years ago, and I've always blamed my poor sleep on one of my medications or uncomfortable joint issues that wake me up. But what you said Patricia about high Hcrt got my attention. Mine has been high for years and my Hgb intermittently high. My MCV has also been intermittently high. The doctors have never commented on it.

Just ask for a referral Trapped. It wouldnt hurt.

Here's an article I found that talks about what to eat to help you sleep.

I also have the dreams in which I have trouble getting out of a building, but I've had this problem in real life as well. One time I was in a building at university, and I had gone to meetings on the first and second floor, only to find that the second floor meeting had moved to the first floor, and I went to that meeting after the first floor meeting. When I left the second meeting, I thought I was on the second floor, and I when I tried to leave the building, I went into the basement, looking for an exit but could not find one. Finally, I decided I would go back to what I thought was the second floor and try to find another stair back down to what I thought was the first floor. When I found doors to the outside, I was afraid to open them, thinking I would fall, but I cautiously opened them anyway. When I found that there was a sidewalk, I exited the building, but I still had the feeling that I was on the second floor, and I felt like I was floating above the ground as I walked away.

Lars, what a strange sensation. One time we stayed in a motel near the grand canyonGrand Canyon. I kept thinking we were on the second floor because i could see the treetops. Then a man went walking by the window looking for his dog., and I realized we were on the first floor and the trees were short.

Another time my friend and I got trapped in a stairwell in a hotel in Italy.

I frequently have dreams about not being able to get out of wherever I am. Im not locked in but other things stop me like not finding my keys, or someone else needing something before i go.

Podcasts are so very helpful to me.

I don’t normally have trouble sleeping. I like to watch street style fashion on my phone before sleep. The slow music and slow moving street fashion might work for you. You could try to watch a few and see if it works for you. I like street style from Italy, street style in Milan, Milan street style ………there are many fashion youtube videos to watch.

FWIW, buildings in dreams can represent our bodies...

i count penguins and snowmen with a couple of cats sprinkled in ...

No help really, because I just finally give up, turn on the light, and start reading.

However, I just want to say that my primary care (internal medicine) physician ALWAYS asks how I am sleeping, what kind and how much exercise I am getting (and always suggests adding more walking), and if everything is okay with my bowels (!) among other things. I am surprised that most doctors don't. Come to think of it, I have never had a doctor who who didn't ask about what might be considered mundane information. They can learn a lot from such things.

What do I do when I can't fall back asleep? Apparently I'm houzzing...been up since 2:30 am. Arrrgh!

Poor Annie! I've been up sine 4:30 but that's pretty typical for me. I started my day, having my coffee (one caff and then onto decaf now) read for an hour, now playing on houzz.

2:30 is not fun

I woke up today about 3:30 AM and stayed in bed for a while until disturbing thoughts that prevented me from going back to sleep made me decide to get up, and then I posted a photo here on the "I'll show you mine, you show me yours" thread. At least that was distracting enough that the disturbing thoughts have left me.

I had 6.6 hours of sleep, and I guess that is enough. My sleep doctor told me that 5 hours is the minimum, but I like to get 7 or 8. My CPAP machine records how long I use it each night.

Yes, Lars, I often see you posting at odd times which I assume is due to your sleep issues. Not fun.

For some reason, I've been hit more and more with hot flashes these days...they seemed to let up some in the summer, but now I'm back in full swing. So annoying! And so disturbing of my sleep.

It's really REALLY rare that I can't fall back to sleep. Today was one of them. I was awake shortly before 5. So, I laid there and my mind kept racing, so at 5:30 I got up and took my shower. Made a coffee and came here. It's going to be a long day, but I'll be alright.

As another sleeper who wakes up at 3:30 and since this thread is still active, I’m here to chime in. I will use the 4, 7, 8 breathing method, or sometimes it’s just 3, 5, 7. I think any set of numbers works so long as they are progressively higher.

Another technique I’ve used since college is to imagine my body is full of sand. I then visualize draining the sand starting with my ankles and moving up to each joint. There is some amount of exhaling going on during the draining process but that is not the main focus. I fall asleep before I get to my shoulders and neck. If you get to your head, you have eyes, nose, ears etc. to drain.

My third technique is to do kegels. I figure while I’m lying awake what better use of my time? And done properly there is a some serious relaxation involved. Counting animals or alphabetical names just activates my brain. So that’s a no-go for me.

Finally, if all else fails I‘ll take a book or ipad into the guest room and read until I fall asleep. I just don’t want my body to associate reading with sleep so it’s my last resort.

4am is our normal. Sometimes it's earlier if DH cannot go back to sleep. I don't always hear him get up, but if I do, it is hard for me to go back to sleep.

Honu, I love the idea of doing kegels- a perfect combination of productive and sleep-inducingly dull!

I do everything wrong. I eat before I go to bed. Sometimes I exercise. My phone is next to me on the bed and sometimes I look at it. My old dog needs to go out several times so we are up. Sometimes I get up and need to take some medicine because something hurts so I go get a snack.

LOL Kegels. Someone on Instagram the other day asked why they don't call them push-ups ...but when she said it, the first word didn't end in "h."

Tee hee.