Replace Moonstone with PJP? Or ..?
This is my white-pink-purple-lilac bed, recently pruned.
Foreground, two minis, Lavender Crystal and Marriotta. Next, three Our Lady of Guadalupe, a near-perfect rose. Behind them are two Love Songs, big and mostly beautiful. The climber at the back is Lavender Crush. I put the two trellises next to it to show how I might want to train LC this year — although the rose tends to grow vertical, not horizontal. Still, I love LC because the blooms smell like heaven (and yes, I would buy stronger trellises than these feeble ones).
The two large, thorny roses next to the climber are my problematic Moonstones.
I originally had three Moonstone HTs, bought in 2019. Dumped one of them after a year because the bed was too crowded.
My remaining two Moonstones are … well, in the spring and fall they’re magnificent. Large, exquisite, white blushed with pink. Between mid-May and mid-October, however, they are godawful: ravaged by chili thrips, inclined to rust, with small deformed blooms. I’ve thought about sp’ing them each winter, but haven’t had the guts to do so, as they are very large and horribly thorny. Still, I may gird myself for the task, because six months of ugliness outweighs five months of beauty — or does it? Those thorns, though — bleggh.
I’m thinking of two Pope John Paul IIs as replacements for Moonstone. How thorny is that rose? How’s its disease resistance? Can it deal with chili thrips? We are often away for as long as a month in the summer, so it’s hard to maintain a spray routine — even if I wanted to, which I don’t.
Alternatively, should I leave the space empty, let the Love Songs expand back toward the wall and allow Lavender Crush to grow any way it wants?
I really like PJP, and by all reports it does very well in hot and dry climates. On the other hand, am I letting myself in for more disappointment if I plant two HTs where two other HTs have not worked out?
Are there alternatives I haven’t considered (preferably fragrant and thornless)? Whatever it is, it will have to grow pretty tall to be visible behind the Love Songs.
I don’t want to do anything rash. This bed gets a lot of light, and I want it to do well — including in the summer!
Thanks all —
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Comments (13)Perhaps another to consider with similar coloring: Secret. Strong fragrance, good vigor, & average/good disease resistance (I don't spray & it is not growing in full sun, so trying to be fair about this assessment.) The main problem with all these soft colored roses has already been mentioned by Beth-thrips damage. It can be a real problem, giving you ugly brown-edged blooms unless you have an effective IPM (integrated pest management) balance or a spray program for control. (I have neither!) Thrips damage has become a bigger problem for me year by year as I've added more roses and have gotten more of a monoculture going on in the yard. Despite it's many good qualities, Secret will probably not survive the next culling to make room for new roses here, but if you can offer better conditions I think it's a fabulous rose. :) Here is a link that might be useful: Secret at helpmefind.com...See MoreElle, Moonstone & Heart O' Gold
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Comments (5)Witchy, Yes, I do, and it's good news! But first, how I wish I had given my Sugar Moon more time. It was painfully slow establishing own root, and got shovel pruned way to soon...impulsive of me. However, when it gets its second chance I plan to get it grafted. The bloom to me is other-worldly beautiful, even with the stamens showing fully open. Then there's the incredible scent. I now have two PJP II, both grafted. My first one, now starting its second year, came through winter remarkably well. It was heavily winterized, and was cane hardy to 10". For me I expect it to never get over 30" tall at maturity in a couple more years, and is rather spreading, but the canes are very vertical. The crown is broad which spreads the bush out, the best kind of crown for a long lived bush. Right now the sepals are drooping. I expect the fat blooms to be exhibition stage within 5 days. It got about 18-20" tall at last year's season's end. My second PJP II, planted this spring has pea sized green buds right now, growing very nicely. I would expect an own root PJP II to peter out here. I believe it needs to be grafted up north, but I still do not expect it to get 4-5' tall, but I am very OK with a bush half that height. PJP II is vigorous and cycles very quickly. Its blackspot resistance is just about typical hybrid tea like. It spotted a bit later last fall when I slacked off spraying. I do not think it will completely defoliate here like unsprayed minis will by mid-July, but I cannot truly say so. I try to spray pretty regularly, but have some short lapses occassionally. When I miss a spray, it is often three weeks since the last spray, and it shows. I have two three year old Beverlys and a three year old Pink Enchantment, all three own root. They are starting their 4th. year now. They all have died to the ground every winter. I even heavily winterized Beverly every winter. Pink Enchantment got no protection this past winter on the assumption it is winter hardy enough by its age now, and being an ADR winner. PJP II is twice as big as those three right now. I think grafted makes the difference, but Pink Enchantment should be winter hardy without protection being ADR, don't you think so? I like Beverly's quick repeat, really quick, but right now it and PE are just about as big as they were three years ago. BEV. and PE will be replaced next spring, possibly with grafted versions or with something else. Witchy, if you get Pope John Paul II, make sure you get it grafted, and plant the graft union at 4" below soil level. I also recommend heavy winterization to get maximum performance. If you don't spray expect blackspot, but how severe I cannot say. Moses...See MoreThick petal roses
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