New layout for old stone house in Southern Europe

last year

Hi there!

My neglected old stone-and-concrete house in Southern Europe needs major repairs (kitchen, garage, ALL the plumbing, crumbling outdoor stairs, leaky floors, doors, windows, zero insulation...). I decided to take advantage of the renovations to improve the layout and I would love some feedback.

Things to note:

Converting the bottom floor into an apartment.
The front of the house sits directly on a narrow street without a sidewalk. I want to move the upper apartment's entrance to the side, putting in a recessed door, to make entering/exiting safer. Also improves access to/from garage.
Hoping to improve the garage layout as well to make parking easier (huge issue right now) -> made calculations, mocks, and tests, and new layout should work.
Moving the upper apartment's kitchen/dining to the street-facing rooms because it is the noisiest and least private part of the house by far.
Improving privacy around existing bathroom on the ground floor.
Adding washer/dryer to the upper apartment.
Take advantage of stunning views from the top floor.
Convert top-floor closet to bathroom.
Follow building code
The financial aspect is all good.

Happy to provide measurements.

Thanks!

CURRENT:

NEW:

Featured Answer

3onthetree

last year

Here's the things I was thinking about:

- Rental: Living flipping not so sure on the size now, if the double door could flip to the other side would be better, and don't know the cabinet sizes and req'mts. Just a thought to utilize the natural private outdoor space and force abandonment of the under-trellis as main outdoor space. Stove exhaust through Laundry to eliminate interior soffits.

- Rental: Laundry sounds like a shared space, altered outside stair to get garden storage underneath.

- Rental: Bedroom shifted door if that window could be used for stepping through from main space too, shortened trellis.

- Residence: Entry patio created area by moving stair

- Residence: Utility balcony created space outside of circulation for stuff, flipped bathroom to get W/D further away from Living (less eating into stone work too), captured more of the roof space for interior.

Don't know what you can and can't do, these are just ideas. This is a great project and done very well. Thanks for bringing this to Houzz, this is why I come here, for unique things I don't get to see in the everyday grind.

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Comments (10)

ShadyWillowFarm
last year
How old is the building?
User
Original Author
last year
@ShadyWillowFarm, all I know is that it predates 1918!
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apple_pie_order
last year
There appear to be three floors. Is one floor a basement that is not used for living space?

1- If the six floor plans had big dark readable labels, it would be much easier to figure out what the room functions would be. It isn't possible to distinguish roof from room or pavement.

2- Also, please indicate which walls are load bearing- and won't be moved.
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3onthetree
last year
From what I remember I think you've posted this before under a different username. This design is much better and well-thought out IIRC.

I can kinda figure it out. The main thing I see is the the rental will be sharing the yard with residence, and some areas might not be as private, but I don't know if that is a goal:

- I would estimate most of the rental outdoor living will occur under the trellis, even though the Kitchen door area is more private. But for the residence, the (main) stair to yard comes down from the (rental Laundry) rooftop and exits right into the rental trellis. Maybe if you flipped the rental Living with Kitchen/Dining, the Living would get more sun/air and the side door would be used for the main outdoor living area. The rental unit might be better off too, with the Living getting more space and the hallway going through the Kitchen.

- The residence (rental Laundry) rooftop is nice to open up with the slider. However, two things: it is not connected with the private balcony (which is large enough for seating to meet your # of Dining guests), so you will have to enter back into the house to go down to yard; also, both the (rental Laundry) rooftop and this large balcony overlooks the trellis - I don't know if that is enough separation acoustically or visually from the rental (notwithstanding the previous comment on moving rental outdoor living), even with vines covering the trellis.

Other than that, looks pretty good. Two nitpicky things: Bedroom 2 door should flip to hinge against the wardrobe/desk nook and open up to the large windows; the Kitchen/Entry tile flooring maybe should be the same as the rest of the spaces for continuity and sightlines.
User thanked 3onthetree
User
Original Author
last year
@apple_pie_order:

Yes, three floors, with one basement (level with backyard) that we don't use for living. We're planning to convert the entire basement to an independent apartment.

1- Yes, sorry, I've attached annotated plans below. I hope they make sense.

2- The load-baring walls are all the thick ones, plus the Floor 0 bathroom floor adjacent to the covered terrace, and the wall on Floor -1 separating the small apartment's bedroom from the rest (the protruding bit we're planning to remove).

CURRENT:

NEW:
User
Original Author
last year
@3onthetree, thanks so much for the feedback!

1- Yes, the garden would be shared. I don't intend to rent the place out. The plan is to have a multi-generational home, shared with family. We all get along and we're not as concerned about privacy. But this might be a problem at resale.

2- Interesting point about flipping the rental living and kitchen/dining. That was the original idea but we ended up put the kitchen by the exit to have the range exhaust by an external wall. I do like the idea of an outdoor space by the rental's living/kitchen/dining!

3- I agree that the corridor separating the covered terrace from the open balcony (above rental Laundry) is not ideal. Do you have any suggestions how to improve that?

The goal was to add more privacy around the guest bathroom, carve out a laundry closet close to the covered terrace (where we dry our laundry), and have a covered passage into the covered terrace since it rains quite a bit in the winter (and we still use the terrace in the winter). Otherwise this is what it would look like:

An idea was to turn the entire open balcony into a solarium, but it seemed too much...

The covered terrace's "railing" is solid concrete, but not the best acoustic separation, I agree. I thought of putting in a similar sloped tiled roof instead of the trellis, but the issue with that is that the rental bedroom would never get any sun. Another idea is to put a pergola with adjustable slats under the trellis with vines, or just the pergola.

- Agreed about both "nitpicky" points :)
3onthetree
last year
- My assumption on the (main) terrace was based on the large 10 seat dining table and that is where entertaining large groups outside would be. And, just on paper, that space to me is the most dynamic and where I'd want to be overlooking citris trees or whatever this mediterranean climate gives me. A solid railing is a killer though, I pictured an open rail overlooking the trellis with greenery on it.

- The small balcony has more sun but is too small for entertaining. If this space is more utility (laundry hanging, grilling, cleaning, etc) then not having it connected to the large terrace is an acceptable compromise. I might want to look at flipping the washer/dryer away from the Living (or putting in bath) and maybe set up a strict circulation route with a single door rather than the slider out to balcony The open glass is great, if you can capture more into that balcony even better.

- Rental flipping the Living to door side, I pictured only removing 5 or 6 cabinet units. So the stove/sink is still along that wall, just shifted down. The ref on the other side of hallway opening. IIRC you debated last thread about kitchen on the perpendicular wall, I think you can get away with keeping it on the wall you have it now and still have enough lineal counter for a 1 bedroom. The outdoor space seems like a natural private nook created by the higher Entry Patio with only the Office window in the residence overlooking it. So maybe the yard hardscape differentiates between this private rental space and carrying around to the trellis space. Also, if you move the Entry Patio stair (to yard) over by the Garage, that opens up more space to be able to utilize the Entry Patio for something (plants out the Kitchen window, late morning SE sun cafe table).

- Rental trellis, I did think about closing off the Bedroom door or Laundry door, but I think both works. The Laundry seems like good storage for a bike or whatever, so I like that door. And removing the bedroom door doesn't transfer the trellis yard patio for exclusive residence use, because windows will still look out onto it - so I like that door too (maybe just all tall casement windows that can be stepped out of). I might enlarge the bedroom windows because the back neighbor wall is blocking most of the sun. You could shorten the length of the trellis so it's not creating such a large space underneath it.

I'm guessing this being on Mediterranean time it will be a 2-3 year project? You sound like an ex-pat, but if only a part-time residence even longer construction time?
User thanked 3onthetree
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Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
@3onthetree:

1- You're right, I do entertain on the covered terrace. I like the solid railing! It's fairly low so good balance between privacy and views over an ancestral stone wall with vines, and a tall, flowering, hedge ;)

The small balcony will have an open rail, though, so the living room will overlook an orchard (neighbor in the back).

2- The small balcony is already not of much use in its current state (the sun is way too strong), that's why I'm OK with sacrificing it for better laundry and bath access. (And maybe for a bbq indeed)

I considered putting the laundry in the bathroom but decided against it to keep it accessible whether the bath is in use or not. The original idea was to have it in the kitchen (my preference), but then the kitchen would be too small for my needs. Otherwise, the spot closest to the covered terrace would be an ideal location for the laundry, but we gain space by eating into the thick inner wall, and it would collide with the terrace door :/

What do you mean by setting up a strict circulation route with a single door rather than the slider out to balcony? The slider made sense so we could keep it open, with a bug screen, but a casement door might work too, and be more secure too.

I regularly host overnight guests, so the street-facing kitchen/dining, with the main entry and access to upper floor, makes for a perfect shared space, and the back with the flex space, living, and bathroom, is a perfect little suite for guests. That's another reason why I'm not completely in love with the addition of a corridor to the covered terrace: with guests staying over, I won't be able to access the terrace OR the laundry without getting into the guests' space. In the end, it made more sense to optimize the space for everyday life rather than around guests.

3- As for rental, I do agree that having the living room by the doors would be nice :) One downside is that this being the main entry, we'd lose one seating for circulation. The idea was to put the dining by the indoor/outdoor spot, and put an outdoor living under the trellis.

I'm now wondering if it would make sense to build a covered terrace across from the kitchen/dining/living, behind the garage - more privacy but poorer views:

I like the idea of flipping the entry terrace stairs to the backyard! It would indeed open up a larger corner for plants or something. But then we wouldn't have space for the shutters :(

4- I also like having a door to the laundry and to the bedroom. The one to laundry because this is where the shared water heater will be, so it would be nice to be able to access it for maintenance without stepping into the apartment proper. Also a good place to store gardening tools.

Both openings in the bedroom will be door-like casement windows :) The original plan was to have a wall of glass, but that was scrapped to improve privacy and have a wall for things like a dresser, etc. But it's an excellent point that the bedroom won't be getting much sunlight.

5- This is the house I live in, so the estimated time for the renos is under a year with a reputable construction company ;) Otherwise, yes, it could take 2-3 years easily.

Thanks again for the excellent feedback! You've given me lots to mull over.
User
Original Author
last year
Nice, now I see what you mean. Thanks @3onthetree!