Roses that got the shovel

21 days ago

last modified: 19 days ago

Something possessed me I guess, I just tromped out into the freezing garden and took the shovel to Moonlight in Paris and Le Petit Prince. My reasons: Le Petit Prince gets thrips and thrips and more thrips on every flush. It repeated well enough but even the spring flush was less than 15 blooms, and again, thrips. I will miss the fragrance, however, and it did have a very nice lavender color, though I didn't like the bloom form. Moonlight in Paris was sometimes that pretty apricot/pink color, but more often was cream, had basically no scent, and very upright growth habit which I didn't love. Also in the heat the petal count went way down for me and I didn't like the way that it looked with fewer petals.I do feel a bit bad killing them since they were alive and healthy, but I have such a long wishlist of roses I want to try, and am really pressed for space, so in the end decided they weren't earning their precious real estate. I have a small garden so I want to really love the roses I have. I didn't love them. Now that I've given them the axe (shovel), I can let the guilt dissipate. I'm free!What roses did you guys decide didn't make the cut for your 2023 garden?

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fig_insanity Z7a E TN

20 days ago

last modified: 20 days ago

It's been years since I purposely got rid of a rose, for any reason. I have the opposite problem of many of you: too MUCH space to fill. I have over 250 roses, and they are still in the minority of my plants. My actively gardened area is 2+ acres (closer to 3 acres, at a guess), of which at least half is suitable for roses. The garden doesn't have definite borders, but just fades off into fields, woods and hedge rows of my farm. Plus, I lose some roses every year to Rose Rosette. Every year. The attrition rate is just about what I can afford to replace, but that means the roses in my garden trend younger and younger, whereas I once had some of the largest specimens of ramblers and teas in probably all of TN. Now, I hold my breath each Spring until the new growth matures...then I die just a little bit with every rose I have to remove and burn. I very, very rarely have to move a rose, so the only time a shovel comes near my roses is when I plant one, or mourn the loss of one.

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Comments (63)

Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
Aw man, I lost a whole long post. I also shoveled Harison's Yellow about a week ago. I saw some other people growing it in nearby neighborhoods last year and I realized there was no way I could keep it in my garden. It's not so much a bush as it is a thicket, a true thicket with thorns worse than any other rose I had. My garden isn't big enough for that. It seems to be able to sucker and spread to indefinite proportions.

On my watch list for possible shoveling next winter: Polka and Strawberry Hill. Very, very stingy with the blooms for me. I want so bad for Polka to be better for me, because a lot of apricot roses aren't hardy enough for here, but mine is the ugliest "bush" shape, thrips damage is very noticeable on it to the point of turning the petals black in spots, and it barely blooms in a prominent, full sun spot. I really want it to be great, though :(
BenT (9B Sunset 14)
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
Maybe Fun in the Sun should come with a warning , ’For Hot Sunny Climates Only!’. I have to say I was astonished by its hot summer performance, the days we had 110F heat, it opened up blooms that looked just as they did in early spring, large, full petaled and smelling of fresh papaya. PJPII is another rose that would get all messed up in the rain, but spews out the most perfect blooms in the hottest of summer.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked BenT (9B Sunset 14)
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Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
20 days ago
Ryan, I agree about Distant Drums. After a few years it was a spindly little thing . Maybe it would be better grafted.

This year I am putting At Last in a pot and removing it from it's place of prominence. I do love the color but repeat is slow. I can't even remember what is going there but I have lots of roses waiting for their chance.

Also Cinco de Mayo is out. I know, gasp. It is healthy and disease free but it is just meh

I will pot it up as well and see if it can wow me.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
Magpie, how old is your Polka? I think that r some roses take at least 3 or 4years from a band to really find their stride.

I also hope that as you continue to ake a great. Insect habitat, your dbeneficials will take care of the thrips. I'm hoping polka turns out wonderful for you. Mine has gotten better each year.

The one that I'm getting tired of waiting for, but I've only had 2 iidiidsummers is. Laguna. I've heard it a wonderful rrose after several years, but so far it hardly blooms and it's hardly climbing.

Ben it's great to hear that Fun in the Sun really is a hot sunny lover.
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Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
@librarian_gardner_8b_pnw It's only 2 years old, which is why it's being spared. I know I should be more patient with it. It's just tough not to compare, I have many other roses that are the same age as Polka that are already so much nicer in shape and much more floriferous, roses that just blew me away in year 2 with how fantastic they were. I know I'm being extra hard on it, but it's in a very prominent spot right in front of my deck, and my vision was to have that whole side of the deck covered with climbing canes and flowers every year, but unfortunately Polka has 100% cane die-back.
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
That's rough for spot. I understand. Maybe you could grow polka there with something that e won't have dieback. Maybe an OGR that needs winter. chill.
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Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
20 days ago
@librarian_gardner_8b_pnw Yes I guess it's just unfortunate placing, x2 because it's growing beside Sally Holmes, which also has complete dieback! Lol! I thought the simple cream/white flowers and very double apricot flowers would look so good mingling in front of the deck, but so far it's not working out the way I'd hoped. They don't even bloom at the same time 😅
Meg-zone8aOR
20 days ago
Thanks for your input about Fun in the Sun everyone, I don't think I have a good spot for it where it will be sheltered from the rain so I contacted Grace Rose Farms and they kindly let me swap it out with Leonardo Da Vinci. Does anyone here grow Leonardo? I don't know much about it but made a quick decision to go with that one, hopefully I won't be disappointed.
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Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
20 days ago
Librarian, that's so interesting that you don't like Laguna. I'm really liking mine. It's just a baby but in its first year blooming it repeated very well for me. Idk about the climbing yet.
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
20 days ago
Your Laguna and Oursteelers are why I'm letting mine aahave a couple more years to establish, Magpie. 😊
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Ashley Smith zone 5a
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
My 15 Robin Hoods that I bought before I knew anything about roses are getting the shovel this spring. I can't wait to have the room for other things. They are Japanese Beetles magnets.. more than any of my other roses. They do bloom very prolifically tho, so I have liked them for that. Earth Angel is giving me itchy shovel fingers also. She looks nice until about July and then her foliage is nasty. Plus she has a problem with thrips in my garden.
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erasmus_gw
20 days ago
I've shovel pruned a lot of them and usually at the time I do it it feels great to get rid of it but then it's not unusual for me to regret it. I have given away Bolero, and Leonardo da Vinci because I had it in too much shade and it was puny and got bs. Gave them to my nearby rose friend. In his garden they went on to be great plants. So I rooted a new Leonardo but no Bolero yet. Got rid of The Squire, Kathryn Morley, Sophie's Rose, Portmeiron, Michelangelo, lots. Sometimes it's a matter of just wanting to grow something else in the spot.

My new Leonardo da Vinci is doing much better than my old one as it gets more sun. It also gets a lot less bs in full sun. Sometimes it's just location.

Polka sends out long canes here which is a good way to grow if you want it as a climber, but I can see how it might not work if it totally dies back.
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Ashley Smith zone 5a
20 days ago
Nik that's funny about Vanessa Bell... I love mine, tho I always think it smells like lotion!
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Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
We should start a

Roses that we regret dumping thread .

There are just a handful of roses that I really hated, just more that I didn't really like .

I Am kind of ashamed of some of the roses that I have dumped.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
rosecanadian
20 days ago
Librarian - Sir Balls a Lot...LOL :) :) Good to know...I'll remember this one. Oh my gosh!!! When it's good, it's VERY good...your pictures are delicious!!

Nick - you say Fun in the Sun balls too...same as Librarian. Good to know. :)

Ryan too - I guess the name says it all...Fun Only in the Sun.

Magpie - yeah...that's terrible. Polka has gotta do better than that. Oh, and it's in a prominent spot...yuck.

Kristine - for sure...if it doesn't wow you...what's the point. :) :)

Erasmus - oh, now that's lovely!! :) :)

I got rid of my Opalescence...no fragrance...didn't do well for me. Does anyone have this rose? How does it do for you?
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked rosecanadian
Diane Brakefield
20 days ago
I don't regret any of the roses I've dumped, the last one being PAoK in 2017. She was replaced with a second Munstead and Twilight Zone, which I certainly haven't regretted. Diane
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Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
20 days ago
@erasmus_gw I wonder if it's a case of one of those roses that wants to reach a certain size before blooming. My Polka also wants to be very tall, it got to about 8' or 9' this past season, but it didn't reach that height until September, right as the season ended. It never bloomed on the long canes it spent so much energy growing, and now of course it's lost all that cane to winter again. Your LdV is so, so beautiful, like all of your stunning plants :) what a great color!
erasmus_gw
20 days ago
Magpie, thank you. It could be that your plant will bloom better this year. I don't know, since it dies back. But maybe as the roots get bigger the plant will have the energy to bloom more. Mine in shade repeats well but it's pretty old. I put another one ( own root both) in more sun but it's not very big yet. I don't remember whether that one repeated last year but I know it bloomed in spring as a young plant. Does yours get good sun? Your pictures of it are beautiful.

I heard of a thrip treatment a long time ago on this forum and I might try it again this spring near my Betty White plant. It's a wonderful plant and the blooms are huge and gorgeous but every single bloom is thrip damaged on the edges. The thrip treatment is to take a blue ( but maybe other colors work too) plastic cup, smear STP oil treatment on the inside of it and put it upside down on a stake. I am thinking the STP stuff has an odor the thrips like. But I think I've also heard that vaseline could work to trap thrips. You could maybe scent the vaseline if you didn't feel like going out to get some STP oil treatment! Or possibly STP oil treatment could be bad for an animal to get a hold of. I think I will try scented vaseline.
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Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
Original Author
20 days ago
@erasmus_gw My Polka is actually in 100% all day sun. But I'm thinking I'm going to move it to a different spot, it will get less sun but it will be protected from the worst of our relentless winds, so maybe that will help it to hold on to just a little bit more cane over winter, and should be able to retain more moisture at the roots. I really don't know but I suppose it's worth a try! I will try that blue cup thing if the thrips don't improve, thank you.
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
20 days ago
Oh, I'm sorry, Fig. 💛
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Diane Brakefield
20 days ago
I'm sorry to read about the RRD, Fig. I hope I never have to deal with that, though I lost two roses to gophers last month, it was the first time in 10 years they have showed up. Still, I'm quite envious of all your space for gardening. When I feel sorry for myself not being able to add more roses because--no room--I tell myself that my age, I should be giving all my roses away.

Erasmus, your Leo is sooo beautiful, and now I want him again. Where did you get yours? Hortico is the only place I know of that carries him. Diane
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subk3
20 days ago
last modified: 20 days ago
Clothilde Soupert CL. for the SECOND time is getting the shovel as soon as I'm recovered eough to wield one!

This a a heartbreakingly beautiful climbing rose. It vigorous with lax enough canes that it's easy to train, and it's almost thornless. It is also practilcaly disease free in my heavy blackspot preassure area. But it BALLS. The only thing worse than your average rose balling is a particularly excellent rose balling. I couldn't stand it any more.

I was sited against the house with the minumun amount of sun to still be called "full sun." Three years ago I ripped all of it out, loaded in the back of the golf cart to take it down to my compost pile. As I drove back there was a wad of plant material that had bounced out of the cart and in that wad was a piece of root and stem the size of a pencil. So I stuck it on a cow panel that I use to fence in my (now) cutting garden. I ignored it thinking it would never survive.

Well survive it did. I was hoping that maybe this full full sun location would be more to its liking. More sun, better air flow. Nope. It still hates me and every inch of the 50 of rain that we get. Its name is now on the shovel. Again.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked subk3
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida)
20 days ago
I though I had got rid of Laguna. It mainly blooms in spring and fall. Its super evil & thorny which I wouldnt mind so much if it bloomed alot. The blooms are gorgeous. In fall it gets what looks like some kind of black crud on the leaves..its not black spot but idk what it is but its ugly. It drops the leaves and replaces them but Im just not that crazy about Laguna. If she looked like HoovB's I would keep it but it don't- so I won't.

Anyhoo, I left it at the old house on purpose. Hubby thought he was being sweet & helpful and threw it in the back of the truck lol. Surprise surprise, here she is..I am prob gonna go plant her out in the woods or by the swamp and see if the deer like her.
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subk3
19 days ago
@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida) we seem to be suckers for roses that by chance make us think they really want to be with us! Hahaha!
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked subk3
Nick 10bSW17
19 days ago
I agree FitS needing heat, the few times mine opened over the years was in autumn when SF actually has warmish weather. I could be wrong, but I want to say Lilyfinch had issues with hers not opening in SoCal and thats a lvl of heat I’d die in.

Wow Librarian, I wished my FitS looked that pretty, the few blooms that opened had a fantastic fruity fragrance.

Erasmus I bought Leo last season, love the look of yours.

I’m dying Sultry, bless his heart. 🤣
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librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
19 days ago
last modified: 19 days ago
Nick, just remember the one that wasn't protected by eves from rain was very unfun and unbeautiful. I'm glad I couldcould create a small microclimate for one FitS to n thrive.
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Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
19 days ago
Diane, Heirloom has Leonardo in stock

Your welcome lol
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rosecanadian
19 days ago
last modified: 19 days ago
Erasmus - I don't think it's the scent that attracts the thrips to the cups (I could be wrong though)...I think it's the color blue. ?

Fig - oh, that's a shame about RRD in your area. With the space you have and the warmth you get in zone 7, you could grow such large, impressive roses (and you have in the past) if not for the RRD causing you to uproot and burn roses. Maybe you could try the blue cups with vaseline so that if mites are blown on to your roses, they may get stuck in the vaseline. Who knows? Maybe it would work. ??

Subk3 - Yes, a beautifully blooming rose that balls...blech. Breaks your heart over and over.

Sultry - remember the short film...The Cat Came Back? LOL Here it is ... some may find it offensive...as the cartoon character tried to kill the cat...but I think it's hysterical...it's like your Laguna...it just couldn't stay away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h01U0JAR-4o
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BenT (9B Sunset 14)
19 days ago
Sultry, thanks for the laught. Your story reminds me of Lisa’s Ruth Clements. If I remember correctly, she dug it up for the the trash while her landscaper was redoing her rose bed. He thought it was her most beautiful rose and planted it front and center!
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Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
19 days ago
Carol, ive never seen that video but back at camp in 1966 a very cute 16 year old with a guitar played that song and I never forget it or the adorable blonde boy singing it

Thanks for the memory
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erasmus_gw
19 days ago
Thanks...I don't remember where I got my Leonardo. When you give away a rose and see it do a lot better than it did in your own garden that is when you have opportunity for regret. I feel fine about getting rid of some roses , no guilt, but some turn out to be rare and pretty good . Maybe worth tinkering with to see if they'd be better in another spot.

Fig, I remember Ann in TN saying how she prefers to grow floribundas these days, not huge growing plants due to rrd. It is hard work to get rid of a huge sick plant!

Rosecanadian, I have heard thrips like other colors too. But I know thrips are drawn to the most fragrant roses so it's not inconceivable that they'd be drawn to the odor of the STP oil treatment. I suspect that the stuff acts like a sticky trap, not an insecticide. Could be wrong. I think they make sticky traps for gardens too.

I think your idea of using the sticky cups for RRD mites could be worth a try. Another thing I think must help at least some is dormant oil spraying to smother overwintering mites. Also supposedly helps with bs .
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sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida)
19 days ago
Carol, haha I love that. I dont think I've ever seen the movie but I do remember hearing that song! Reminds me of Tom and Jerry or The Roadrunner & Wile E. Coyote going off the cliff only return! Meep Meep!

I think I had an x boyfriend like that back in the day 😅

Now I am going to think of that song every time I look at that rose or some other thing around here that keeps returning lol.
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rosecanadian
19 days ago
Kristine - awww...you're welcome. :) :) That's a nice memory. :)

Erasmus - lots of good points. :) :)

Sultry - LOL :) :) But the rose came back, we thought it was a goner...the rose came back...
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Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
19 days ago
Carol, seeing your video sent me straight to Google to see if I could find the lyrics

I found several more videos and they all had different lyrics

Azalea and I had a great time watching all the videos and singing
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librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
19 days ago
last modified: 19 days ago
Carol, the rose in your song is totally the good Doctor Huey, right? 😅
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rosecanadian
17 days ago
Kristine - oh, I'm so happy that you and Azalea had fun singing/watching the videos!! Made my day!! :) :)

Librarian - LOL must be. :) :)
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LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
16 days ago
This spring I have a few roses that are getting the boot. Chrysler Imperial is out. Very few blooms and the growth is very stunted. Sadly, Golden Celebration is out. It doesn’t appear to like my zone….almost no blooms and plant gets smaller each year. Boscobel is out….stingy bloomer and im not a fan of the fragrance. La Park is on the list and this one hurts. It just never recovered from winter last year, no matter how much I babied it over summer. Only 4-5 blooms all year and didnt even reach a foot in height. It’s in a prime spot that i can use for something else. The last one is probably my biggest maybe. I can’t seem to pull the trigger on it no matter how many problems it causes: 1812 Rose. It’s a VIGOROUS grower….maybe a bit too much. It’s constantly battling BS badly and spreads it to its otherwise healthy neighbors. It’s SO hard to commit to removing it because the number of blooms, and the beautiful color/shape is an absolute dream. I just can’t do the BS anymore though….it’s so much rose bush to try to control disease effectively.
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rosecanadian
14 days ago
Laura - Yup...it's just a rose...and if it's making you unhappy...it should go...especially since it's spreading BS to your other roses. Pull the trigger. :) :) As to the others...out they go too...you'll be happier with roses that delight you! :) :)
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked rosecanadian
Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
14 days ago
last modified: 14 days ago
Laura, try putting La Park in a pot and see if you cant bring it back

I mean only if you love it
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
14 days ago
@Kristine LeGault 8a pnw I think i will do that. I have yet to find a good way of getting my container roses through winter but i’ve tried a new methos this winter. We’ll see how well they come through!
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
13 days ago
Kristine has a great idea, Laura. some roses really come into their own in pots when they did not impress in the ground. You can plant them out later if they improve.
Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA)
13 days ago
last modified: 11 days ago
Wow! What's the saying...one person's rose trash is another person's rose treasure? ;-) My Fun In the Sun made me so happy this last year (in its first year) that I bought a second one 2 weeks ago! We do get good sun, not too much BS pressure, but I don't get the heat that much of So Cal gets...though we do get hairdryer winds sometimes (which makes us vulnerable to the fires). And we get the May Gray/June Gloom -- but my FitS never balled. And, Distant Drums is one of my healthiest, loveliest roses. And, I love my Moonlight in Paris!!! And my new discovery is Ruth Clements, which took my breath away with her loveliness (though, she's still very young, so can't say much about the mature bush).

On the other hand, roses that are bullet-proof for so many (Julia Child, Zephirine Drouhin) -- were disasters in my garden...

I try to avoid just putting my roses in the compost bin -- and pawn them off on neighbors! That way I don't feel as bad. But this year I bought my next-door neighbor a rose of his own so I wouldn't feel bad that he has a lot of puny roses because he's nursing my cast-offs! Eek.

This year I gave him my cast-off Olivia Rose Austin -- perfectly healthy, just not happy with it. And, I'm giving him a Golden Celebration. I have two. One was a 4" pot from Annie's Annuals, and the other was a one gallon from Heirloom. They are about the same size now, but I don't need two, so he got the one from Annie's. The one I bought for him brand new was the Princesse.

Any news/word on Teasing Georgia? This will be year 3 for that girl, and she's done almost nothing.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA)
LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
13 days ago
@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Agreed! La Park originally was potted when it first arrived since I wasn’t sure how well I would like it. It thrived in a container and I loved it so much that I gave it a prime spot.

My happy La Park in a container:
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
13 days ago
@Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA) Surprisingly Fun in the Sun does exceptionally well for me too. I’m in 5b and my FitS is in part shade as well. It’s a blooming machine with a well-shaped, dense bush. I didn’t expect it to do so well nor for me to depend on that reliability so much. My main issue is that fragrance is a big deal for me and my FitS smells like myrrh for whatever reason, which I’m not a fan of. I have another rose that is supposed to smell fruity but comes out myrrh also…I don’t know what causes this? 😩
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
13 days ago
Laura, your potted La Park is really a beautiful rose.

I have a Desmond tutu that is wonderful in a pot but when I planted it in the ground it didn't put on any new growth so back to the pot where it took off again .

Moonlight in Paris is finally pretty fabulous but the first 2 years the blooms were washed out and boring . It took a while but now I get what everyone was talking about. I was pretty determined to make that one work because everyone loved it so much
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
rosecanadian
12 days ago
Laura - what an excellent La Park rose bush!! I don't think I've ever seen one with that many blooms/buds! Great job! I had the same issue (fragrance came out wrong) with two Dee-Lish roses (one was sent by mistake)...they smelled like grass. I hated the smell...and I had no idea why they smelled like that.
LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
12 days ago
@rosecanadian ah, ok! I was beginning to wonder if there was just something wrong with my nose. Good to know the fragrance issue has happened to others as well. So weird how that happens.
Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA)
11 days ago
Yes, I have a couple of roses that are supposed to be "very fragrant" and I can't smell anything, hardly. And others are supposed to be fruity, and they're not...I love how the Poet's Wife smells...and I used to grow Victorian Spice -- boy was that a wonderful scent!
Ken Wilkinson
9 days ago
I have reached the point last spring that I let Mother Nature and the cold weather determine what roses stay and what goes. Perfect example: First Prize. Bought 2 last spring and is supposed to be fairly winter hardy. I was out looking around the garden today and most of the stems are turning black. What is a poor rose man supposed to do? I hate putting the shovel to a rose because I buy a rose for a specific reason. Oh well, life and roses will go on.