Remodeling a 90s kitchen - ISO help tearing plan apart/improving it
Goals:
• A kitchen island that our kids can actually sit at.
• A large flat section of countertop (on the island) where we can do cooking/baking/"science" activities together (NOT the table).
• Cooktop (or range) along a wall and NOT in an island. With a hood for ventilation, not downdraft.
• More efficient pantry storage.
• Better storage all around. Drawers for dinnerware. Drawers for food storage. Vertical storage for pots/pans/lids. Vertical storage for bakeware. Island storage for the things we almost never use (lefse griddle, instantpot, etc)
About us:
2 adults, 2 kids (6 and 8 - but they are both extremely small for their ages and always have been). We both work from home. We have 50/50 custody of the kids, so they are not always with us.
I do the majority of the cooking/baking/prep, but with some assistance (but once we have more than one person in the current kitchen it gets frustrating constantly being in each other's way). The kids try to help, but it can be challenging (they often end up fighting over who gets to help because there is only one space that we can fit a chair/stool to stand on, but then that is also in the way).
BUT... we aren't chefs and typically don't make the most complicated meals. (Some factor of this is how frustrating it is to use our current kitchen, but we'll never be making gourmet meals at home).
Kitchen to be used daily for cooking (breakfast, lunch, and dinner), cleanup, homework, making espresso/coffee, packing school lunches, etc. But also for the occasional gatherings of friends/family (including preparing mixed drinks, we also store our alcohol in upper cabinets in the kitchen currently and don't really have a better place for it).
We entertain sporadically (in the time the kids are not with us), but don't always want to because our kitchen is where we always end up and it has flow problems when multiple people try to be in it. Strictly informal gatherings.
We would like the kitchen to be a hangout for both our family and for parties (it is now, just a frustrating one).
We have full dining tables in both our formal dining room and in the kitchen area. We rarely use the formal dining table (why bother?), but also have no real reason not to use it.
There is a partial wall in the kitchen that is already coming down to open the kitchen to the family room (working with structural engineer and contractor on just that part of the project for now). We have a separate formal living room that is not open to the kitchen/family room areas (and doesn't get any use because it is off by itself away from the action). At the point of the wall opening the ceiling transitions from 9ft to 18ft.
Under the kitchen is a crawlspace.
I don't have any ideas for how to combine the breakfast nook and kitchen that aren't disruptive to traffic flow or awkward. The breakfast area has a door off it (to the patio where our frequently used grill/smoker is) and bumped out windows that go very low (bottom of window is less than 2ft off the ground and goes up to the ceiling. I don't think it would make sense to change them). If someone has ideas, I'd love to see them.
Preferences: if the long wall (16'6") with the cooktop/range is to be full of cabinets/countertop, my husband prefers the cooktop/range to be centered on the wall.
We're already planning on moving quite a bit of plumbing, electrical, walls, repairing flooring (adding/refinishing), adding electric for induction/capping off the gas line, possibly adding a second sink. Removing the framed in pantry we currently have on the corner near the laundry/garage.
Baking center? Yes, to an extent. I would prefer baking essentials to be stored to the left (island-side) of the cooktop/range. This also puts them close to the island, where the kids will be in order to help with these activities.
Beverage center? For espresso/coffee and preparing mixed drinks. Possibly near a smaller prep sink (not main sink). No separate refrigeration required, we have a beer fridge in the garage already.
Appliances:
I keep typing cooktop/range because we are going back and forth on it. We are not keeping what we have. My husband would prefer a 36" range, but that is for form not function. I would rather focus on function. We love our 12" all-clad pan and I refuse to give up my half-sheet pans (which not all ranges will fit, I have found). So cooktop and separate wall oven (placed under a countertop is still in the running).
* 24" advantium (or similar) microwave/convection oven placed under the counter on the corner of the island
* counter-depth side-by-side fridge.
Pantry:
• Built in.
Garbage:
• planning for 2 pullouts under the left side of the sink (eying those Rachiele workstation sinks...)
Mudroom is cramped into the laundry room, which leads into the garage.
Must have:
seating for at least 4 at the island.
storage on the back of the island (size flexible).
induction (yes, we know we will need 50A service).
Drawers, so many drawers.
Charging zone for kids kindles (or "away place" to put them - in the kitchen area because we're realistic and know that's where they're ending up, anyway). Preferably hidden within an end cap on a cabinet (could spare 6" for charging in a base cabinet).
Oil/vinegar/spices near the stove.
Vertical storage for pots/pans/lids in a lower cabinet (have it now, love it, won't give it up).
Vertical storage for baking sheets. (have it now, love it, won't give it up)
Would like to have:
small second sink (to right of cooktop) in the bar/espresso area. Could also be a second prep area in addition to on the island by main sink.
Definitely do not want:
bar-height anything
downdraft ventilation
narrow walkways
double-oven
Current plan will have 15" upper cabinets, and 26.75 lower countertop (this takes it to the trim of the opening into formal dining area). Island has 24 depth on front and 24depth under the overhang, but the overhang side is flexible.
Comments (33)
Sophia
2 months ago
The double doors are the current pantry, which is 24" deep (cannot step in). The mini-hall space to the left of it extends further back than the depth of the pantry, so there will still be a drywall corner even turning that into the long 16'6" wall of cabinets (as the plan currently calls for).
We love the look/idea of the long wall of cabinets/countertop, but that could just be an overcorrection from what we currently have.
The plan now is to have built in pantry cabinets either surrounding or to the right of the fridge. (18 and 18 on either side, or a single 36).
sheloveslayouts
2 months agolast modified: 2 months agoRelated Discussions
Trying to update 90s kitchen and SO overwhelmed! PICs and layout
Comments (38)desert, I plan to get out to some showrooms this week to see what's there and I'm really hoping that will help move me forward a lot more. When we built this house, we hooked up a trailer and drove to Dalton GA and came back with all the flooring needed to do the entire house. It was easier to make choices when we were looking at the entire roll and not just small samples. We got terrific deals and then just paid the labor to have everything installed by a friend of DH. For the majority of other items we spent hours at Lowes. lanval, I plan to give the island a new top along with whatever we choose for the countertops and I know that will help spruce it up more. Originally we were told there was no room for an island at all, but our cabinet guy designed the funky shape to fit one in. I wish we had space to redesign it to allow more of a rectangle shape with an overhang to fit a couple of stools, but there is just not enough space around the u-design of my current layout. Anne, DH is assigned the reno to his brother. He doesn't have time to get involved in the work itself. That's probably a good thing since we end up disagreeing on details most of the time. I've learned we just see things from different perspectives because I'm considering details he thinks are not important. And since the kitchen is not really his domain, I don't want to get into a power struggle over the choices I make. I tried to discuss the timing with him yesterday and he sees no problem moving ahead with the April schedule. I pointed out the events coming up that will coincide with the time the kitchen is torn apart, and his basic outlook/comment is "it's no big deal"...he's just a 'get'r done' kinda guy. I tried to remind him this is not one of his empty houses that is unoccupied and the fact there is more involved than just slapping on a countertop and being done. Maybe I'm just thinking too hard, but I can see the entire kitchen torn apart and me being stressed enough over that while trying to juggle our spring busy season and my DD's precious time left living at home knowing the activities associated with that. Plus the responsibilities of finishing up our eoy business details is difficult enough alone, and now I'm sposed to be doing research/legwork to plan a kitchen reno. I'm sorry if I'm rambling, but when I say 'overwhelmed' I'm not exaggerating. If I could just put everything else in my life on hold right now, it might be no problem, but everything else is not going to just stop. I'm glad you see what I'm feeling about the timing of my DD last days at home. Just last year when she wanted to have her after-prom party here, I had some mini meltdowns feeling overwhelmed with my regular daily workload and then adding more to it. This year isn't looking much better... Anyway, to clarify some of the questions you asked: I broke the measurements into 2 sections since the bar seems to separate it into 2 areas. The nook area is 13'x9'8". The kitchen area is 9'5"x13'2" but that is only the actual floor space. The cabinets are 25" deep so you could add that to the width of 9.5 for a size of the actual room. The garage is on the other end of the house. There is door to the backyard patio in the nook area. The original plan called for columns and a more open floorplan. DH chose to change it to large c.o. I posted pics from different angles to try to show this. I measured everything you asked to help clarify; fridge is 35"Dx35"W - cab depth is 25" - MW cab is 29"D - raised bar is 12"D. I checked the face frame of cabs and it appears the only ones sharing is the section to the right of the sink where the raised bar is. The rest are chopped up due to the DW, stove, and corner that leads to the MW cab. I'm trying to visualize the changes you suggested...I guess I need to sketch it out to understand it completely. Since his brother is doing the reno, it actually gives me more comfort b/c I know is fully capable of any little details I bring up. At this point...right now...I'm in panic mode after talking with DH last night and he totally doesn't get my lack of enthusiasm about the schedule. He makes it sound so easy. The ct can be done in one day, the floor can be done in one day... what's the problem??? Arrggh!! happy, Glad to hear of your wp sucess, painted and stripped. I hung every bit of the paper in this house and have 3 baths of wp also facing stripping....See MoreKitchen Remodel with nod to the 50's- guidance needed
Comments (45)I bought 40 of these pulls and found a dozen knobs that match nicely, so these are my starting point! I picked up some green and some cream 4x4 tile samples. What do you think? Cream cabinets with green tile is my favorite. (I had to use a tile to simulate cabinet color) Navy cabinets and cream tile backsplash. Love the hardware on the blue, but feels off otherwise. Thought maybe tile the are behind stove with a decorative tile like the third pic??? constructive criticism & suggestions welcome....See MoreKitchen Remodel: Floor Help
Comments (26)Hmphhh... have not thought about an induction unit, since i always hear about the virtues of gas, but will definitely look into this. I agree, downdraft venting is less than ideal, but the kitchen layout really limits the stove placement, so I have to roll with the punches. And that is why your best bet may be to wait until you can redo the kitchen and create a layout that isn't a danger to anyone walking by when you're cooking. Move in. Live with it for a while. It actually looks good even if it is functionally dangerous. Putting in a downdraft or a ceiling hood will not negate the fact there is no room in back and on the side of the cooktop. In fact with young kids, please teach them to stay away when Mommy is cooking! I can't over emphasize how dangerous that cooktop on the edge of your too small island is. I can only imagine the 3 year old reaching up or even looking up just as water on the back burner boils over. Having lived through a 3-month kitchen remodel, I can assure you that it is certainly possible (though we had only one college-aged kid in the house at the time). We did ours in the summer, and did a lot of cooking on the grill I actually did a kitchen remodel many years ago with a 3 year old and I was pregnant with my second child. I laid kitchen tile, painted, and helped hubby hang our Ikea cabinets. We lived with our fridge in the living room and a hot plate for almost 3 months. Oh and our barbecue out back which meant we had to walk around the house to get to. While not the best thing, it is certainly doable and better than putting lipstick on your kitchen when the whole kitchen really needs to be reworked to be safe and functional. There seems to be plenty of prep area to the right of the stove, and tons of counter space all around. The only major functionality issue is the venting, but I will be including a potential solution in my improvements plan. Prepping is done normally next to a sink so you can wash and cut items. However the functionality issue isn't only the venting. It's the fact there is NO counter behind the cooktop or to the left of the cooktop. Think of having a pot there and someone brushing past. Think of someone standing behind the cooktop and grease etc spattering. I could go on and on. It's dangerous! And yes, even your wall oven is not safe. You take food out of the oven and then where do you put it? Now imagine taking food out and your 3 year old running behind you as you pivot to put the hot cassorole down. Live with what you have so far. Wait. Just be extra cautious and save money for now. Then when you're ready to redo, post your plan and let the experts here create a kitchen plan that will truly give you functionality for years to come....See MoreKitchen remodel - drama vs. functional
Comments (22)@cpartist The old kitchen was awkward. It had a wall with 3 windows to the north, doors to a bedroom and a bathroom on the east wall, a door to the porch on the south wall, and a doorway and access to the back of the built-in in the dining room on the west wall. This plan shows a change for a bedroom access in the lower right corner. The dining room was also overburdened with doors, windows and doorways. In the dining room there is a door coming in from the entry/vestibule on the west wall and almost a full wall encased opening into the living room. There is a door into the 2nd bedroom on the south wall. The east wall is filled with a doorway into the kitchen, a Victorian arched brick mantled fireplace (which someone blocked off and put in a freestanding woodstove in front of), and the built in cabinet. Finally, the north wall of the dining room is a bay shaped bump out that is over half of the wall. Definitely a room that was only intended to have a table placed in the middle of it and lots of circulation options. In the plans for the bathroom we close off the former kitchen access to the built-in but (of course) keep it for the dining room, It will go from over 20" deep to a still very usable 14" plus. There will have to be some changes to the drawers that pull out from either room and shelving reworking. The two windows above the sink are replaced with a single awning style window over the toilet - still thinking about what sort of glass that obstructs the view I might chose. I was considering a pedestal tub, but hate squeezing my arm and cleaning tools between my current clawfoot tub and the wall to wipe everything down. So am going with a built in tub with shower. It is not the spa bathroom of my dreams, but I really wanted a laundry room. So to the east of the bath is the water heater closet and a laundry room with a bit of storage for brooms, vacuums, my folding kayak. (I don't have a garage.) The 3rd bedroom looses a little sq. ft. and the closet moves to the west wall. The 2nd bedroom is in the lower right corner of the plans. The original closet of this bedroom was made into a 1/2 bath that was accessed by the 1st and 2nd bedrooms, a Jack and Jill 1/2 bath. I am moving the access to this bedroom from the dining room to the new hallway. We will also wall off the access to the 1/2 bath from this bedroom. The closet that replaced the original that became the bath is a DIY plywood monstrosity on the north wall and will be moved to the east wall and will take space from the old porch. Hoping to improve the bed placement choices. There is a short hallway between the kitchen and the dining room, which is not what most people do. We looked at making a galley kitchen along the north wall and stretching that all the way to the back to access the backyard that way. But that involved moving 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. That was way out of my budget and would have been an over investment. This way there is the small sacrifice to maintain the original character of the more formal front rooms of the house that have coved ceilings and an abundance of 6" Art Deco influenced window/door/casement trim. The vestibule/entry, the living and dining rooms are the only rooms with coved ceilings. Very Victorian in having such formal rooms for guests. The previous owners went very Victorian in decorating the front rooms with flocked wallpaper, anaglypta wall paper (painted Marilyn Monroe lipstick red), very dark staining on the trim. The bedrooms all have the same trim but none of the other Victorian touches. The kitchen and bath are very plain in the trimmings with just ~ 3-4" wide, simple wood trim. I am trying to modernize the decor of front rooms with a more subtle nod to the past that blends the boundary between old and new. Thanks for asking!...See Moresheloveslayouts
2 months agoSophia
2 months agosheloveslayouts
2 months agolast modified: 2 months agoThis is where project creep can get crazy, but I'm just brainstorming with you.
I'm wondering if a wide back hall with coat hooks from the laundry directly to the 2nd bath could be created by stealing some space from the master and the kitchen. and you could square up the entrance to the primary suite and the bathroom. So many angles in your house!
A reach-in pantry and fridge would probably be best in the space where the powder presently is.
Sophia
2 months agoSophia
2 months ago
3onthetree
2 months agoI would agree that brainstorming on the Powder Room might be beneficial not only to the Kitchen layout, but the flow of the house. An existing plan is better than proposed for exploring all opportunities, something like this:
Sophia
2 months ago3onthetree
2 months agolast modified: 2 months agoSophia
2 months agosheloveslayouts
2 months agoWhat are the overall dimensions of the kitchen/ lower ceiling area excluding the bay area? I'm looking for the length of the red and blue lines below...
Sophia
2 months agosheloveslayouts
2 months agoSophia
2 months agosheloveslayouts
2 months agoSophia
2 months agoemilyam819
2 months agoemilyam819
2 months agoAnd these changes, because you don’t need so much counter space by the stove, and you can fit in a drink/snack bar.
Sophia thanked emilyam819Sophia
2 months agoSophia
2 months agoSophia
2 months ago
We really liked the suggestion for the drink area to live on its own, so we tried out moving things around to accommodate that. My husband says this is now his favorite plan, thus far. We have a small 18" drop zone for charging/junk drawer/kids stuff. 36" of pantry. 30" on either side of the 36" range. A 6' wall for drinks (espresso, etc). Space for a 36" base cabinet with drawers (for plates/bowls) that is just around the corner from the dishwasher/across from pantry and fridge.
It isn't perfect, but it has some details that we are really loving.Sophia
2 months ago
We both agreed that ideally the island would be oriented in this direction, but that it doesn't feel right in our house. Especially the large expanse between island and family room, that could technically fit a small table and chairs, but we both felt it would be awkward (it would be directly under the ceiling height change, and partially visible to the front door).
emilyam819
2 months agoThe downside of this plan is the awkward work triangle, combined with the sink sharing the aisle with non-cooks trying to serve themselves their drinks and snacks.
emilyam819
2 months agoHere, you have a great work triangle and aren’t sharing the space with non-cooks. I don’t think you’d have that much space between the back of the island and the couch. You might pull the couch back toward the island and/or add a sofa table. Also, you might want the work aisle to be more than 4 feet, and you have the space to push the island toward the living room. My stove aisle is 42” and I have to stand to the side to use the oven, and the refrigerator is not also in that aisle. Remember that even counter depth models stick out several inches.
Sophia
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Note: I'm not sure how to get a faucet to render with this sink, but obviously there should be one (or two) at the island sink.Jen g
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SophiaOriginal Author