I have wondered. In North Alabama, where I live, we have gone from drought to where now every storm gives tornado warnings and flood warnings.

California has had such a drought, they even showed empty lakes, and now such heavy rains.

The trouble is, we'll cycle from this overabundance of rain back to drought. The only real good news is that SOME of the water will make it into reservoirs, and so, eventually, will the snowmelt. But we're kiddin' ourselves if we think there's a long-term change.

The reservoirs are still 65% empty, and unfortunately much of the torrential rain will just run off into the ocean, so Jeri is right, and there are still more drought years to come. All we can do is live one day at a time and be grateful for the good things that most of us still have, and the top of that list is our loved ones and our pets, and of course always our gardens.

Sherry did you used to be in Florida and lose your husband?

The news just reported that Lake Cachuma, the main source of water for south Santa Barbara County, has risen from approximately 40% capacity to over 81% capacity in just a few days and is nearing overflow into the river! The surface area of the lake is 4.844 square MILES. The amount of water required for this increase is 4.844 square MILES X 40 FEET THICK. That is a PILE of water! Imagine that is the type of rainfall drenching many of these areas. Thankfully, we only received about 4" in two days. Other areas were hit quite a bit harder.

I also have liked these posts out of acknowledgment of the suffering everyone is going through on the West Coast. I am shocked by the weather California and Washington residents have been struck by!! Each day I see photos that are unbelievable……

I live in Milwaukee Wisconsin and though we have had some drought the past two years, it’s nothing like you folks have suffered from. I am often thankful that I live on a Great Lake and have adequate water supply.

I am thinking and praying for all of you to be safe and well! 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

debra

I just heard from Deborah who is safe, but has quite a tale to tell. She and her neighbors pitched in together and moved mud, dug trenches, and more. I want to post her email soon. I'm so happy she's OK. Diane

I am so glad everyone is safe so far. I really hate all the crazy weather these past years. Mud and flooding are very bad to deal with.

Sherry I am in the FL Panandle now and we have had so many tornado warnings lately, its crazy, plus some tornadoes not too far from us. I really hate it. Seems like no matter where one lives, its always something.

I'm not surprised to hear Deborah is doing hands on work to help. She's not one to sit idle. God bless her!

Pasadena isn't nearly as concerning as areas in northern CA, but still worrisome for a mom with kids there. They're keeping watch to make sure water isn't seeping into the cars under the doors, so the level is up pretty high even in suburban neighborhoods. They aren't grocery shopping unless it's absolutely necessary - not much food in the supermarkets, anyway.

More family in Thousand Oaks are faring better than most.

Families with pets are having a time of it getting their dogs to go outside a couple times a day. My kids dogs look at them as if to say, 'are you kidding?!"

In an area where we used to live, a car drove right into a sink hole and the truck behind her couldn't stop in time and followed her in, landing right on top of her car. All 4 were rescued, but what a scare that would be.

Given the long history of droughts in California and other Western states, it's inconceivable to me that there aren't more reservoirs and catch basins scattered everywhere. We have one not too far from our house which has a permanent plastic over on it (but with no doubt some method of collecting rainwater), and I would think that would be a useful feature near every town or city. We had a very large lake a few miles away that I remember from many years past, and it is now completely gone, with trees covering that whole area. I think there has been wholesale mismanagement and neglect (and dare I say corruption?) to have brought us to our present state, when we knew many years ago what was looming in the future, and so pitifully little was done about it.

As long as everyone is safe I’m happy. Any damage can be repaired. We’re good at adapting to strange weather conditions here and if we can deal with the ground having temper tantrums, we can deal with whatever the sky wants to throw at us too! I don’t have nearly the problems others have had. My back patio has a layer of mud on it, nothing serious, just enough to make a mess is all. My neighbors side bed did flood which made its way over to my house. It took out my mulch and about 2” of topsoil. Thankfully my soil, aka playground sand, drains well.

I did cope between sky rivers on Saturday by going to another nursery and picked up a Top Cream, Pop Art and All Dressed Up. All Dressed Up was not part of the plan but one looked way too good to pass up. Figured I already have some work to do anyways what harm can a few more roses be. This is after I told myself no more roses this year Michelle! Oh well, at least i tried for a solid week lol.

I posted Deborah's email to me on the seasonal (Christmas thread). Diane

Here in the Santa Clarita valley all our dry creeks filled up, but no danger. Flooding in Albertson’s parking lot. Nothing worse.

Winds were scary Sunday night. Knocked over a wrought iron umbrella table (with the umbrella). Fortunately no one/nothing hurt.

I just tell myself, in around six weeks or so we should have a dazzling array of wildflowers.

I could write a small book about the rain & floods & fires I've experienced here in the Santa Barbara area since I moved here in 1987 from Pasadena :-D

Oursteelers, thanks for making this thread. I think it's okay to like a post if it's bad; I always figure it's my way of saying ((hugs)).

Kim, Lake Cachuma was at 31% in December, and I didn't believe it when they said it had gone up to 44% by afternoon. Then I was completely shocked when it got to 70% by the next morning. As a recently retired chemistry teacher, I appreciate your explaining to folks how much water that means!

Diane, our average yearly rainfall is 17". But the year we moved into this house (Dec 1997) we had almost 50 inches. Glad you contacted Deborah.

AllSass, wow that's a great looking bare root. But it figures from Rogers. Same thing at our local nursery that specializes in roses.

Congratulations on your retirement, Susan! Now, when someone wishes you a "good day", you actually have a shot at it!

I've been watching this on the news. Really frightening...and I heard that a child was swept away. Heartbreaking.

I'm glad that people here are okay.

Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR , No I'm not that Sherry.

Good attitude Michelle, nothing more therapeutic than new plants especially roses.

Looks like a break in the rain today so heading over to the Grange. My sister got me a gift Certificate to get a membership.

Every time you make a purchase you accrue money for future purchases. Im going to start collecting bags of soil for all of the pots that need filling.

It is really wonderful that the lakes are refilling.

Thank you for that, Sherry, and I am glad you are here.

The other Florida Sherry is missed. She was a great writer and seems to have disappeared.

We are fine here in Marin county (Northern CA, right on SF Bay, but maybe 10 miles from the Ocean, with a tall mountain in between). We have had an enormous amount of rain since Dec 26th - around 20 inches total. Today is the first break we have had in the pouring rain for about the past 10 days. Luckily for me this is the day of the week I always go grocery shopping, and do other errands.

Most of our water comes from local (but not big enough) reservoirs on Mt. Tamalpias, our local watershed. The reservoirs were way way low, and this past summer they were contemplating buying water and putting a pipeline across the Richmond bridge, which connects Marin to the East Bay. Now all 6 of the local reservoirs are "spilling" - water is going over the spillways into local creeks.

It appears to me that the areas of serious damage and problems from flooding in CA are mostly: 1) towns and/or homes right on or very very near the Pacific Ocean, 2) towns in the Central Valley where some levies have broken near huge rivers, 3) towns and homes in the local mountains, which are very steep and subject to flooding, and 4) towns and homes near some very large creeks or rivers which are historically subject to flooding. This is truly all very bad and tragic and scary, but I just wanted to explain that, despite what is on the TV, all of CA is not under water.

I grew up here, and for the first, say, 50 -60 years of my life (starting in 1950) , this much rain and related flooding (although admittedly not in such a short period of time) happened almost EVERY winter here where I live. It is what I consider "normal" weather for here. That is why our local reservoirs are not big enough to deal with years of drought - they did not need to be when they were built, and they have not been expanded. Of course, nothing has been done in the past 20 years to create more water storage here, mostly because of the environmental lobby. That is also why there have not been ANY large dam projects in the rest of CA since the 1960s. Hopefully all of this precipitation (currently we expect another straight week of heavy rain starting tomorrow) will give a breathing space so that more storage can be created. We get plenty of water, even now, but it comes in giant amounts less frequently. 90% of it runs into the Bay or Ocean.

Jackie

At least some good from the rains... no areas of California are now in "Extreme drought" and now "just" in the "Moderate" and two small sections in "Severe". Our local reservoirs are now.. Thankfully, we don't rely upon Twitchell for much more than ground water recharge.

Oh man, a huge blue spruce tipped over down the street.

Im so glad that we removed ours this year. Most of the ones in this neighborhood were planted in the 60s and most of them are diseased and not very stable.

One good thing . . . This day between rainstorms brought us mild East Winds and a magnificent sunrise.

@jacqueline9CA, The reservoirs of Marin, and Santa Clara and Santa Cruz Counties, for that matter, have become less than adequate in the face of exponential population growth over the past half-century, issues that do need to be addressed, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you when it comes to large dam projects in CA, Jackie.

First, overall, at least 50% of the precipitation that falls in California that CAN be captured (71 million acre-feet) is captured (total reservoir capacity in CA is 43 million acre-feet (MAF), but since reservoirs aren't drawn down to zero every year, actual capture-capacity is maybe only 80% of that 43 MAF. The remainder ("environmental water") is what flows out to the ocean, providing riparian and wetland habitat for salmon, other fish, plants, animals, etc. etc. etc. along the way, which are also critical resources. Thus, because of the dams and reservoirs, "environmental water" is already at just 50% of its natural level, with pretty much little margin to take more without causing disruption and even catastrophe in natural systems (as demonstrated during years when the Bureau of Reclamation made poor decisions -- early 2000s were one such period -- and allocated way more water to human use than was really available -- near extinctions and court mandates ensued).

New Melones Dam on the Stanislaus River was the last big federal project, completed in the late 1970s. Since then, a combination of federal politics, existing water rights with higher priority, and economics has worked against additional big water projects. The biggest water use in the state, by far, is agriculture, at roughly 75% (varies) of all captured water. Agriculture was the primary reason the dams were built in the first place (discounting PG&E's hydroelectric operations in the Sierras), but agriculture now only constitutes about 1% of California's economic output, meaning there's little economic impetus to spend billions of dollars to support a dwindling sector of California's economy (bound to dwindle further as irrigated cropland becomes toxic and is forced out of production due to the salinization and saturation inevitably caused by irrigating in arid climates -- already happening, by the way, and is what seems to have ultimately caused the downfall of ancient Mesopotamia, the so-called "fertile triangle". ) As municipal/residential use of water in CA is only about 15%, diverting even a small percentage of ag water to municipal use would easily support a growing population.

Of current interest is the proposed Sites Dam (1.5 MAF) in Colusa County, which is to be privately funded and would be the biggest dam project since New Melones. It is off-river, so doesn't create the environmental problems that on-river dams create, and there's a lot of support for it. But, as you can read in this article, so much of the water in California is already tied up by existing water rights, that it's not clear they will be able to fill it: https://www.sfchronicle.com/climate/article/California-s-largest-reservoir-in-nearly-50-17400937.php. This reason, by the way, is a big part of the problem with building ANY new reservoir in CA, even relatively small, local ones: getting the water rights, or at least a water right with enough priority to make it useful (pre-1914 water rights are effectively the only guaranteed rights in the state; after that its a matter of luck and what kind of rain year it is). Pretty much all sheet flow of water in CA already belongs to an existing water right.

What I'm trying to convey here is that the situation is way more complicated than the tree-huggers getting in the way...

Interesting comment, catspa.

I could not read the sfchronicle article just by clicking on the link you provided.

I found this

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/07/opinion/california-flood-atmospheric-river-drought.html

helpful.

@rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ) Thanks! DH and I saw the article you link last week and found it very interesting. Identifying and using paleo valleys in the Central Valley to recharge aquifers and capture and store water would be far better, in so many ways, than building above-ground storage with dams and levees: less costly infrastructure, less evaporation, and a way to counteract subsidence, which is a particularly big problem in the southern Central Valley. (Subsidence is the sinking of land due to overpumping groundwater; in CA, more than 50 feet overall in some locations, including 12 feet just over the course of the recent decade. Ironically, while subsidence tends to accelerate during droughts due to more groundwater pumping, it also creates worse flooding when rains return, because it lowers the levels of levees -- they sink along with everything else -- and essentially creates big bowls in the landscape that fill with water. It also causes cracks and other physical damage in infrastructure such as roads, bridges, and buildings.) Paleo valleys, where water would infiltrate into the underground aquifers most quickly, would a good place to direct potential flood waters, and it would help in implementing a recent law mandating that underground water withdrawals and recharge have to be in balance by 2040..

They're talking about this in SoCal, as well, and I am glad. I will never forget my dad's complaints about Los Angeles' "paved rivers," designed to whisk every bit of rainfall out into the sea. He was so right.

Back in the 70s and early 80s, there were old quarries in the east end of the San Fernando Valley which were allowed to fill up with storm run off and soak in, but those were eliminated due to pests and stupid people. Mosquitoes, rodents (and other wild life) loved the access to water and people just love getting into places they are prohibited from entering. Add the land was finally sufficiently "valued" it was more profitable to develop it than to use it to save the water.

😭😭😭 to all the development choices.

I ifI wonder if officials in CA are looking at what their southern AZ neighbors have been doing for decades. There are some really interesting aquifer recharge projects that have 25 or more years of data...

It sIt won't olve all water problems, but it certainly helps. Given that flash floods are a yearly occurrence in the Sonoran Desert with monsoon season, there's some good use of natural dry rivers/washes and rainwater catchment gardenttoogardening too.

I have family members that work as geologists and the topic of water reclamation always draws their ire.

First, it’s important to note that Calwater and LA DWP have actually spent large amount of money on storm water reclamation. Billions. And has lots of plans to build more. But it will cost tens of billions more. This is an area with 16 million people, all with infrastructure built a century ago to get the water out of the city and into the ocean as fast as possible, created when nobody cared about drought.

To capture stormwater is hard enough, replacing a large networks of storm sewers and rerouting them. But then the water has to go somewhere. In a large storm like this no stormwater treatment facility could keep up. So the water must be stored in the ground, as groundwater. There’s simply no place to recharge any aquifers in West Los Angeles (densely populated) and even valleys with more space such as Simi Valley have insufficient soil for aquifer recharge—there must be a very specific set of geological factors to meet before an area can be used for aquifer recharge, such as the proper sediments and rock formations. The water that is captured is filthy dirty, so it must go through a very specific filtration of sediment before it can be put back into the ground, a set of sediment and geological features not common in our area. So it must be transported across mountains to areas that do have sediment that can filter the water.

Water wants to rush towards the ocean and that’s not just from the concrete jungle that exists. Los Angeles is a giant mountain basin and water naturally flows to the ocean via creeks going to the LA River, so first large amounts of infrastructure must be put in place to reverse that flow and put water back into the ground. This includes building large pipes that can traverse geologically sensitive areas such as the Sepulveda pass. And building power substations to get massive amounts of electricity required to move water up 8% grades. Earthquakes notwithstanding there are other geological issues that must be overcome to move large amounts of water up, steep mountain grade into the SF valley where the aquifers can be recharged. Costly. Very costly.

But some of this already exists. The spreading grounds in the SF valley are there, and water id added to it. But it’s not enough, and greater utilization means greater cost. Measure W will help but you’re talking about building hundreds of miles of pipes that span multiple cities and water districts. Politics and more money.

And corporate greed has taken a toll; my cousin recounted a story about a Costco that was required by la to install stormwater capture basins in its parking lot when it was built. Instead they “forgot” (rushed to avoid it) and of course no city councilman wants to be the one that closes a Costco parking lot; thus the fine was paid and no collection basin was created. Such is many a projects and until more public opinion is added, it will continue. Many fear these rains will put the public at ease and make them forget about drought for a year.

This article is a good explanation of the technical factors.

https://theconversation.com/how-california-could-save-up-its-rain-to-ease-future-droughts-instead-of-watching-epic-atmospheric-river-rainfall-drain-into-the-pacific-197168

Thank you, Ryan! This is informative. Tucson definitely a different history and a different environment aand a muchmuch smaller. population (only 1 million when you count suburbs). Probably not. fair to compare. It's also giving me some funnyfunmbirdbird (please ignore the Houzz gremlins) tiny bits of hope to learn more about what people are trying to do and the challengechallenges. That story about the COSTCO "forgetting" to comply frustrating and probably too commoncommon.

ReallyReally interesting. article!

A large part of Southern California's problem is that we have too dang many people. Nothing we do now is going to change that.

And as someone who has watched fields and farms paved over for the last 8 decades, I have no problem understanding why we have the environmental problems we have.

Sadly, that is so true. When I compare the small community I live in now to what it was seventeen years ago I could weep. All the charm has been swept away, but we can glory in now having RiteAid, McDonald's and Taco Bell and a series of tacky and cheap-looking housing tracts.

😭😭

@ingrid_vc zone 10 San Diego County When I first moved to the little farming town I live in 5 years ago, I imagined we'd be raising our kids in the situation we moved into. But already in that 5 years I've seen a lot of change here, and I wonder what it will be like here when they're teenagers. The big, romantic sweeps of farmland under the mountains is becoming more and more oil drilling operations, warehouses, and identical suburban housing tracts. We have a very nice array of raptors and migrating birds through here (and occasional foxes) that are a huge source of enjoyment to me, and I hope they don't become scarce one day.

Growing up in the orange groves was wonderful and everything smelled so fresh and sweet. Now they are all gone.

Same thing in southern Oregon pears have been replaced by pot which uses a ton of water.

Farms have been replaced with overpriced unaffordable apartments.

@jacqueline9CA Jackie, I need to get in touch with you, and your messaging seems to be turned off. Give me a shout privately, if you can.

John

I had my power out for 5 days, so it was pretty dark and miserable with my house being 50°,  and I had to throw out my entire refrigerator.

But compared to the multiple people in my neighborhood who got cars squished and trees bashing in the roof, I'm grateful!

Carla in Sac

💛 Oh, Carla. I'm glad you're okay now.

Carla, what you went through is bad enough and I'm so sorry for your neighbors who went through even worse situations. Please take care.

Oh my goodness Carla, I was without power years ago for 4 days and it was miserable. I can totally understand how horrible it is be cold and In the dark with nothing but cold food.

Did you go to bed at 6?

I am so glad that you are ok

Are you drying out at all?

I know that we need the rain but slow and steady would be nice.

So glad to hear from you and know that you are hanging in there.

Blessings!!

The weather is typical for California. Years of drought followed by a deluge one winter. And the year after a deluge, wild fires are really bad. All the rain produces a lot of growth, which dries out after 6 months or so without rain. I expect August and September to have a lot of fires.

Only too true. The only difference is that in the past we didn't have too many years of drought compared to this last mega drought period, which makes it all the worse. One would hope that new homes and renovated ones would have stucco walls and tile roofs, but that's probably asking for more foresight than humans usually have. Put em' up cheap and sell them quick is unfortunately often the practice, even now.

@ingrid_vc zone 10 San Diego County said " Put em' up cheap and sell them quick is unfortunately often the practice, even now." It has actually been the way from the first gold strike. Each time there's been a "boom", we slapped together the cheapest, flimsiest, fastest selling possible. WWII and returning GIs saw the largest and fastest. Most of the post WWII homes built in California had the least (if any) insulation possible and used the cheapest materials available. We did it two centuries, a century, half a century ago and are still doing it today.

Thanks all for thinking of us West Coasters! I gave Diane my update. We came through fine, though there were challenging moments. I've lived here 25 years now, and this was the most rain I've seen in such a short span of time. But all the above posters are correct that this will not replace all the groundwater we've lost...sigh. Still, exciting to see the reservoirs back up, the snow pack doing well, and neighbors looking out for neighbors.

We have a shale driveway and it is a disaster. Multiple downhill slumps We will need to probably build new retaining walls. And of course, our insurance policy seems to have changed as of January first to not cover this. Am hoping the disaster declaration will at least help on a tax rebate for the repairs - fearing thousands. We are on the list with the contractor, as are many others.

Well, gosh Nancylee . . . I sure can't "like" that!

nancylee2 - So sad to hear about that - Here's hoping things work out for you - at least the rain has finally stopped, and for the first time lately none is even in the 7 day forecasts.

I had never heard of a "shale driveway", so I looked it up. Shale was listed as one of the kinds of stone which can be used for gravel driveways. Sounds like yours is on a steep slope. Just curious - is it very long? Could you post any pics of it on here?

Re your insurance, you might want to check with your state's Insurance Commissioner's office to see if the company gave proper notice, etc. about the change in terms (did they change AFTER the torrential rains started where you live?), but I am sure you already know that - just trying to think of something to say that might be helpful.

Take care, and I am sure everyone on here would like to hear more from you abot this as you go along -

Jackie