Thoughts on fixing non-flush switch boxes?
Frank Marsh
last year
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HALLETT & Co.
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outlets/switches not flush w/ drywall ...
Comments (5)although this is not to code since the "spacers" I use are not UL listed for the purpose but I prefer it to the plastic shims. I take some romex. Strip is all out (to bare copper). find a long scewdriver. It needs to be phillips and about 1/4 inch diameter.hold the end of the wire near the handle and wrap the wire around the screwdriver. You now have a collapsed spring made with copper wire. Now you can cut the spring the the length you need and install on the device screws and install the device. My favorite is a small pnuematic hose that HVAC guys use in some commercial installations. I cut it long and let it compress as I am installing. Don't need to be as accurate with the length as you do with the copper coil spacer. as wianno posted, if you do not support the recep, it will wobble. As well as you plug something into it, it is very possible you can break fhe plate. You can get away without shims on a switch generally. The plate will hold it in place....See MoreDual switch, useless switch help?
Comments (26)"The fixture itself is a fan/light combo where both light and fan turned on at the same time. Is it possible someone rewired the same fixture intentionally (I don't know why though) and turned it from a light-OR-fan to a light-AND-fan? I dunno, maybe they figured they never used one without the other and got tired of turning on both? Would that make more sense?" Ah hah! Yes, I'd say it is all but certain now. The light/fan functions were once separately switched and then someone decided to tie them together on one switch. That means "Plan A" because "Plan B" was based on the (now debunked) assumption that there's only one remaining function in that fan! [Not to complicate things just when we're drawing down to some final conclusions, but it also means you have available a "Plan C", which would be to use a new dual switch and return to the original design, with fan and light controlled by their own switches. Arguably, that might save some energy if the fan is sometimes left running when the light isn't needed or vice-versa. But I'm not pushing that one way or the other; it's altogether your choice!] "I will try as you suggest (requires a hardware store run) but I'd like to understand it better first. What are the fat white wires? Am I right in guessing the dark rubber conduit probably goes to the fixture and the silvery ones are household supply? Ya know, when I looked at the pic with the white wires, I didn't quite understand it either. It looks to me like they are neutrals, but I assumed you'd just chosen to omit some of details, like how the neutrals are wirenutted to each other in the box. One of the missing details about the fan/light is that we never did figure out the source of the neutral for that fixture. With 120V wiring, any light, fan or other outlet needs a hot feed and a neutral to work. These days, most electricians would wire that fan/light combo by running a three-wire cable from the switch to the fan (e.g., black for the switched hot light feed, red for the switched hot fan feed and white for the neutral). My guess is that whoever wired your light/fan didn't have 3-wire cable (or didn't understand how to use it) and so s/he put the two switch legs in one cable and ran the neutral in the other. The fact that both of those cables have rubber sheathing tends to confirm that those were part of the same "project". Why, exactly, there appear to be two white neutrals heading "north" is anyone's guess. It's rather bizzare, actually. Not that it matters much, but I think what you have there are cables (not conduit); conduit is like a pipe with individual wires running through it. If, as I suspect, it's cable, not conduit, the rubber sheathing could indicate that it is submersible pump cable or motor wire or something like that. Very possibly, it was just some scrap wire that someone happened to have laying around. Another possibility is, gulp!, that's a cut-up heavy duty extension cord! I dunno, but it isn't anything "standard" I'd expect to see in a bathroom wired in the 60s (or now either, for that matter!). [Not that I doubt you, but I just gotta ask it again: Are there really two white wires in the same two-wire cable???] The "silvery woven" cables appear to be early 60s vintage "Romex" (a brand name, actually, but often used generically). 1967 was right about the point in time when the woven sheathing was phased out in favor of the plastic-sheathed NM-B that we see today in new wiring. Whatever the ancestry or breed of that rubber-covered wire is, the way I would expect it to have been wired is this: three white (or maybe grey by now) neutrals tied together--one from the feed in the lower left, one to the circuit continuation in the lower right and one to the rubber cable in the upper right. Because a cable with two white wires is quite strange, I'd expect to find, on close examination, a black wire in that cable that's been clipped off and not used. As you've presented it in your drawing though, it's a head scratcher alright. It could be that the neutral runs on one wire to the fan and then back to the circuit continuation but, again, that'd be beyond strange, IMHO. This particular box was apparently ungrounded. The ground wires were twisted together but left loose in the box. All the other boxes I've opened up so far have had the grounding wires twisted together and looped into a tab-like projection on the box (metal), and not on the switches or receptacles. Was this acceptable practice in the past and not now? I was expecting this project to be a simple, straightforward direct replacement project. Geesh. Geesh is right! Nothing short of cucumbers grows faster than a home wiring project. Yes, times have really changed when it comes to grounding. Cables with ground wires included began to appear during the 50s and, frankly, I think a lot of electricians had no idea what to do with them! So they twisted them together and sometimes attached them to boxes, etc. :-) Keep in mind that most receptacles then accommodated only two-prong plugs and switches had no grounding terminals. A lot changed during the 60s, as three-prong outlets became standard by the end of the decade and more and more equipment had separate grounding connections. And the good news is this: Few changes in wiring requirements reduced the number of serious house fires more than the advent of comprehensive grounding systems. And the other good news is: Your house wiring includes equipment ground wires. Whenever you have the opportunity to improve something, put them to use! And, especially, whenever you're putting in a device that has a green grounding terminal, take the time to connect it to ground. (Also, check the connections on the old ground wires to make sure they're sound. Once upon a time, just twisting them together was a normal practice. Modern code requires a mechanical connector such as a wire nut or a crimped sleeve. "I really need to pick up a wiring book. Can you recommend one? I heard that one which was previously highly recommended (and I was going to pick up) is on recall now though. Yeah, that recall caused quite a flap. I'm sorry I don't have a good recommendation on the title of a basic book on the top of my head. Hopefully, someone else will pop in with one....See MoreHas anybody installed electrical box for switches inside cabinet?
Comments (11)Creative Design Cabinetry, the doors are made so that they can be hinged on either side because the stile across the front isn't centered on the door., but thank you for the melamine idea And thank you, Sammy! We bought Bjorket doors when they were being discontinued. They were deeply discounted and it was during a sale so we bought them with the intention of having them painted and that's what we did. I like the stiles on these doors better than the Grimslov. Also, I have an identical cabinet to the left that will be my actual pantry. The side with the box is for the broom and dust bin....See Morebathroom light switch issue - need thoughts/ideas
Comments (27)I could be wrong but it’s possible that the outlet in the middle of the wall is serving both sinks? Ideally each sink should have a separate outlet on each side - sometimes there’s also one in the middle for a hair dryer or extra plugs. I don’t see any outlets on either side, so I believe this is it. With that being said, the outlet and light switch are not on the same level with each other (that would drive me crazy, but maybe OP is ok with that). Given that this is a guest suite bath with 2 sinks (possibly also a hall bath) it may not be a huge issue as to whether there are enough outlets/switches and their location as well as elbow room. As far as the mirror dilemma, the simplest and the most cost effective (free) solution is to hang one mirror and center it on the wall right next to the switch and above the outlet in the center. Possibly not a deal breaker for a guest bath....See MoreFrank Marsh
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