Yes I am in Spokane. I am looking forward to getting the animals, went and looked at chicks yesterday but they were sold out of the breed I wanted and I had never heard of the ones they still had in stock so I didn't get any. Came home and read some more about them and will pick up a few next week. The guy said everyone seems to be wanting to raise their own this year and he can't keep them in stock. I don't have a barn or any other out buildings is the reason that overwintering animals is not an option right now. A barn is not in my budget but we are going to put up a coop and something for the pigs. Once the coop is up I will get some grown chickens too, but the little ones are so cute I wanted to raise a few babies and see if I can get attached to them enough to want to take care of them over the winter. Sleddogger thanks for the laugh, I can just imagine the pig getting into the neighbors garden! They don't know I am getting them yet. They are already unhappy about me putting up the fence. I actually an looking forward to them, have heard many good things about raising pigs and think I have enough room that they won't smell.

Despite the original posters overly extensive post, with certain questionable content, the central point is still quite vaild. We as a nation spend more money on grass than on any other crop. That by itself should be reason enough. Read up on the history of lawns and you'll find that they were orginally created as a means of demonstrating wealth (aka, I have this big area and I can afford to do nothing with it except grow grass I can't eat) Regarding the comments of junegem13 and zachslc, you might want to read up on the legal history of this movement. As it turns out, most weed laws (ones based on hight, not on noxious weeds) are unconstitutional. Nonetheless, if you are in a city or subdivision and decide to do a wildflower meadow where there is not an reasonable ordinance, then you should notify your neighbors and the city about why you are doing and the legal preceedants. The EPA has all this information. Regarding property values, that was the original complaint neighbors made against one landowner when she converted her lawn into meadow. When they were unable to demonstrate an actual decrease in property values, the city ordinance was ruled unconstitutional. Afterwards, the neighbors decided if they couldn't beat her that they'd join her and replace their own yards with meadows. Property values in that one neighborhood are now some of the highest in the city (Specific names and places, are available if you want them). Time and time again, lawn alternatives done correctly have shown to raise values, not lower them. In Charlottesville, VA local government is working on an ammendment to exclude native meadows from our weed ordinance. Other cities are doing the same very quicky, especially since the weed ordinance as written by many localites constitutes a legal liability to local governments.

FYI.... seems to very much depend on the % of HCN... I dont know much about it, but some interesting reading... --------------------- ----------------------- EFFECT ON PLANT LIFE Seeds HCN applied in dosages effective ageinst insects does not affect the viability of seeds that are normally dry, with moisture contents suitable for storage. In a comprehensive study, the results of which were published between 1959 and 1961, Strong and Lindgren studied the effect of HCN in insecticidal concentrations on the germination of a wide range of seeds, including grain seeds, flax and small legumes. The variable factors considered were moisture content (8 to 14 percent), repeat fumigations and postfumigation storage. It wes concluded that germination of wheat, barley, oats, rice and flax seeds wes not impaired by one or two famigations with HCN. With the small legumes with a range of 5.8 to 12.2 percent moisture content (Ranger alfalfa, alsike clover, Ladino clover, Kenland red clever and Viking birdsfoot trefoil), all were tolerant to HCN in one or two fumigations, except aisike clover for which there was positive indication of impairment of germination. Among 80 varieties of grain, vegetable and flower seeds tested by Lindgren et al (1955), six showed evidence of reduced germination. These were pole beans, burnet, California black mustard, smilo, marigold and snapdragon. It may be concluded that HCN is a safe fumigant to use for seed treatment, especially for cereal grains under normal conditions, but with flower and vegetable seeds preliminary trials with local varieties are advisable. Growing Plants and Trees A considerable amount of injury, either temporary or permanent, may be sustained by actively growing plants fumigated with HCN. Because this gas is very soluble in water, special precautions have to be taken to reduce the amount of moisture on leaves and stems and in pots or soil balls of actively growing plants. Therefore, the plants should not be watered for one or more days before treatment. After treatment with HCN, it is necessary to wash the plants with water to remove any residual acid. HCN interferes with photosynthesis and other physiological processes (Moore and Willaman, 1917); for that reason, plants may be more susceptible to injury in daylight. Usually, treatments have to be carried out at night or in the dark. Also, following exposure, plants should be kept away from sunlight for several hours. In the past HCN was widely used for fumigating ornamental and glasshouse plants, but it has been replaced by other fumigants that are less phytotoxic. The use of HCN generated from calcium cyanide to control glasshouse pests is discussed in Chapter 12. HCN was extensively used for may years to control scale insects on citrus trees in a tent fumigation procedure (Quayle, 1938). In this treatment, HCN gas (5 g/m ) from liquid HCN, or evolved from a salt such as calcium cyanide, was liberated into a relatively gas-tight tent installed over the tree and maintained for usually around 45 mintues. A number of factors, including temperature, humidity, physiological conditions of the tree (such as dormancy, disease, cultural conditions, stage of development and others), have considerable influence on the tolerance of the trees to the fumigant (Woglum, 1923). Since different species or varieties of citrus trees show wide variation in response and the insects in different areas may vary in tolerance, the actual conditions of treatment usually have to be developed to suit local circumstances. In scale insect eradication work, where complete kill of all insects is essential, the tent fumigation treatment with HCN has been found to be a valuable technique (Fosen et al, 1953). HCN was used by Del Rivero et al, (1974) to control larvae and eggs of the woolly white fly on orange trees. While the concentrations of HCN required to kill insects may cause severe injury to growing plants, lower concentrations of HCN may stimulate growth and be useful in "forcing" growth in some species (Gassner, 1925). Dormant Nursery Stock HCN is still used in many parts of the world for the fumigation of the dormant nursery stock of deciduous trees, especially in quarantine treatments against the spread of scale insects (Ceder and Mathys, 1949; van de Pol and Rauws, 1957; Agarwala, 1956; Jen and Lai, 1959). As in growing plants, a marked stimulation has been noticed in some nursery stock fumigated with HCN (Cassner, 1925). Immediately following fumigation it is sometimes necessary to wash plants with water to avoid the burning of buds and new foliage. ---------- Cyanide production by rhizobacteria and potential for suppression of weed seedling growth. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11400067 Here is a link that might be useful: Cyanide production by rhizobacteria and potential for suppression of weed seedling growth.

I'm quite sure after reading this thread that i have an answer for my early girls, which are all doing this thick leaf stem growing upwards and twisting (more like a sucker would do), with large, thick leaves that are also turning upwards and rolling/twisting. There is zero discoloration or otherwise poor health indications, i grow in the middle of 50 acres, totally organically, my own compost used, mulched with wood chips a year old from within the property. I've used zero pesticides, herbicides or fertilizers. Just compost, coco coir, water and my seedlings. They aren't stunted, are growing quite fast actually but, here in Northern California in the Sierra Nevada mountains we've seen record breaking temps between 90-105 for a few weeks straight now and I'm pretty certain my plants are just tired of baking. I'm hanging shade cloth tomorrow and will post pictures as well because it's quite bizarre how hearty they are but growing like an upside down tipi (and it's only my early girls doing this, the other varieties are all fine.)