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jordyn_spann

Kitchen Layout Advice

Jordyn Spann
2 months ago

Our friend is at the framing stage on this build and needing to order her appliances ASAP (price increases). She is doing a 48" range and wants to do two 36" column fridge/freezers in the kitchen.... She originally thought she would put them on the wall with the range, but with the measurements, it would make next to 0 counterspace on either side of the range.

Would you put them on either side of the dining room doorway, or I suggested maybe moving the dining room doorway to put them together on that wall. Any better suggestions?


The kitchen layout is still fluid/trying to be decided.... I knew how many great minds are here so I thought someone might enjoy giving it a go for her!


Thanks in advance...!





Comments (42)

  • Angela Carlson
    2 months ago

    I don't think I'd want my refrigerator that far away from the sink, personally. I'd be more inclined to move my oven far away...I use it far less than my frig or cooktop!

  • Angela Carlson
    2 months ago

    Tbh, I would consider making at least the "top" wall to the family room (where there's currently a frig marked) longer so it can accommodate the full 6' of frig. The space is huge and closing that wall up a bit should not hurt the open feeling, imho.

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  • Jordyn Spann
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Oh yes, P. S. she is putting a prep sink on the dining room end of the island..

  • Angela Carlson
    2 months ago

    ... I'll also add that I would be REALLY annoyed to have to weave my way through the kitchen to get from my bedroom to the living space. The only walkway is literally past the sink, which is super inconvenient if there's activity in the kitchen. 


    I would rethink the entirety of this design to eliminate that as well, even at the expense of a smaller kitchen (because let's be honest, a staff of 5 could work just fine in that space).


    Sorry for the multiple comments, this app sucks for looking at photos while commenting.

  • mcarroll16
    2 months ago

    I would redo this design from scratch. But for a quick fix, I would put the fridge on the right (east) side of the dining room doorway, with a microwave next to it, and a prep sink in the island closest to the dining room. Freezer maybe up by the cleanup sink, where the fridge is currently shown, and a beverage center (ice maker, coffee, etc) on the L-countertop on the left (west) side of the dining room doorway.

    Jordyn Spann thanked mcarroll16
  • 3onthetree
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Even at framing stage, without cabinets ordered yet, there may be some things that can be done to open up other opportunities that may solve some issues.

    For one, the opening from Kitchen to Family is centered, as well as the range upon that opening; however the seating nor circulation in the Family Room is not. So one or the other or both walls flanking the opening can get longer.

    On the Dining Room side, there is plenty of room for a Butler's Pantry. I assume the doorway is desired to be centered on the island though, which would be blocked visually by whoever is sitting at the end chair anyway.

    Both those ideas would shorten (either visually or physically) the Kitchen and having split islands, which I imagine your friend does not want to mess with. I would ask, has thought been put in to having an open view from sitting at the couch, right between the islands into the range?

    Jordyn Spann thanked 3onthetree
  • PRO
    PPF.
    2 months ago

    It's always best to have the friend responding -- it's their home.

    There are so many problems in the plan besides the kitchen. It looks more like a DIY design than one from a good professional. Lots of money being spent ...

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    2 months ago

    I will have my friend respond.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    My friend says the layout is not good, but he used MUCH coarser language, sounds, and hand gestures to get the point across. He said something about stopping construction and had a few choice word for whoever designed it and their relatives.

  • HU-457756048
    2 months ago

    Not a kitchen designer here, but a kitchen- user, and this one looks just plain weird. Line things placed randomly. So I would not know where to start if some aspects are not movable ( walls or plumbing) except to simply start over. Because it’s seems like would be domino effect.

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    2 months ago

    I feel bad for your friend. Kitchen layouts should be almost complete by the time framing is started that way you can make changes. Has the kitchen designer laid anything out in a computer? Has your friend seen any 3 d renderings? If your friend loves to cook, this plan is bad. This seems like it is going to be a "fancy " house - why is there no butlers pantry going into the dining room? Why 2 islands? Why only 40" walking space in front of wall ovens?!! Where is the prep sink ( which should be at least a 21" wide bowl ). How big is the family - where are they sitting for breakfast in the morning? Why does the master bath not seem to have any windows? Why do you dramatically open double doors to the bath and have a tub about 4 ft in front of you? I don't mind the master being through the kitchen - that is a last stop for a lot of people before going to bed and first thing in the morning, but coming down that hallway and snaking that turn into the room and in front of the office - how easy will it be to get large furniture in there? Are they in a quiet area since the bedroom is in the front of the house?

    Sorry for the long post, but once I started looking, things just kept popping up!

    Please! If your friend is working with a designer have them get this into a computer asap!

    As far as appliances go, do all the ones they want but I would do a 48" ref and put a smaller unit in the huge pantry.

    Also pass along that once framing is complete and they start to run the mechanicals, the builder is going to want a FINISHED kitchen plan ( appliance sizes, locations of everything electrical and plumbing ) so tell them to focus on layout and function not color and pretty stuff yet. The builder doesn't care where you have pots and pan drawers but he does want to know where your stove goes!

    Good luck to them


    Jordyn Spann thanked Debbi Washburn
  • darbuka
    2 months ago

    There’s so much wrong with the design of the entire floor plan shown, its hard to know where to start.

    Does ”your friend” really want to walk from her bedroom…uh, owners retreat 🙄…through the large bathroom, in order to get to the walk-in closet? The master bathroom has two separated sinks in vanities with no counter space, and little storage. For a new build, in what looks to be a very spacious home, that’s just poor design.

    As has been pointed out, having to wind one’s way from the master bedroom, through the kitchen (past the sink), in order to get to the massive family room, is so daft it’s hard to believe this was designed by a certified architect.

    Don’t even get me started on the kitchen…with double islands, the inefficient fridge locations, the main sink sooo far away from the range AND dining room.

    So, let’s say you’re serving dinner in the dining room…after each course, you’re going to have to carry any number of dishes and silverware through the long kitchen to get to the main sink and dishwasher…all the way at the other end of the room. Again, for a spacious new build, this is atrocious designing.

    If, in fact, a certified architect generated this house plan, he/she needs to be fired. Any further work on this structure should be halted.



  • emilyam819
    2 months ago

    Here’s a rough ideas. That’s R= refrigerator, F= freezer, large prep sink on the one island, beverage bar by dining room, extra walkway to the hall, door on bedroom instead of randomly in the hall in the way.

    Jordyn Spann thanked emilyam819
  • emilyam819
    2 months ago

    Or this. But the island sink would be the biggest because it would probably be for both prep and cleanup, since the window sink is so far away. But that might make it the better location for the beverage/snack bar.
    P= pantry, O= ovens

    Jordyn Spann thanked emilyam819
  • lharpie
    2 months ago

    Thanks emilyam! i was staring at this thinking it was screaming for 1 island with 48” aisles and an entry from bedroom in lower kitchen. my kid would love running the crooked hallways in this house but it would drive me batty. I’m also sort of confiunded by kitchen sized to cook for giant crowds but modest diningroom. The jack n jill baths to a hallway? all sorts of fascinating things here! but the kitchen changes and adding a doorway there should be doable at this stage!

    Jordyn Spann thanked lharpie
  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    2 months ago

    "All sorts of fascinating things here!"

    My friend said about the same thing in not as polite a way.

    See if your friend is willing to join Houzz and start a discussion asking for input on the entire house design. I think some of the comments above touch on other parts of the house that could use some improvements. I will try to keep my friend from joining to save your friend from getting an ear full.

  • PRO
    Bare Root Design Studio
    2 months ago

    I agree with consolidating into one island but also agree the adjacent spaces need to be taken into account (or re-considered )as well. This kitchen is still in schematic form. I see good options but it would take some time to noodle the pros and cons of each one. It's large and I'm sure going to be an investment. Pause and re-group.

    Jordyn Spann thanked Bare Root Design Studio
  • rebunky
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    One island please.

    I try to avoid putting my butt on display, let alone having it as the main focus of the entire kitchen from the living room.

    ”OMG Becky, look at her butt!”


  • Buehl
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Does your friend have a garage? If so, where is the garage entry? Does your friend bring groceries in from the garage or front entry?

    Does your friend have a sketch of the entire floor showing all doors/doorways - both interior & exterior? That would be helpful. From the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread:

    The sketch of the entire floor lets us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the home. It doesn't have to be to-scale, but it should accurately show how the rooms relate to each other and should include all interior & exterior doors. In addition, it will help us see how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen. Label the front entry and family entry. The family entry is usually a garage or side entry, but it might not be. It's helpful to know which door you use to bring in groceries.

    Jordyn Spann thanked Buehl
  • Buehl
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    A better set of measurements would also be useful, similar to this:

    ETA:

    Note: Measurements should be space measurements, not appliance/cabinet and similar. Think of a "blank slate" - those are the measurements that are the most important.

    Space measurements are the labeled widths of each wall/window/door/doorway and the distances between each wall/window/door/doorway in the space under consideration. If the windows or doors/doorways can go anywhere (i.e., moved, removed, new ones added, etc.) state that as well.


    Where is your friend flexible? Can walls/windows/doors/doorways that are shown in the layout change (move, change size, add, delete)?

    See the Read Me thread for more info.

    Jordyn Spann thanked Buehl
  • emilyam819
    2 months ago

    @rebunky - Comment of the year! So funny.

  • PRO
    PPF.
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Some ideas.

    Beams change creating a series of almost squares.

    Bathroom changes and short hall gets a door so that part of the house may be separated.





  • darbuka
    2 months ago

    @ABC, which is why, 13 hours ago, I put “your friend” in quotations…as you did just now. I was skeptical as soon as I read the post, yesterday.

  • Jordyn Spann
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I'll admit it has been a hot minute since I've spent time in this forum, but still remember the brutality that can play out... and yet, I'm still always a little shocked at what running commentary you can get. LOL


    Yes, dear friends, this is actually a FRIEND (/acquaintance). I built my own, personal home 2.5 years ago. And although the responses CAN be brutal, I do know there are many helpful, talented, and generous people in here who I am grateful for.


    The friend worked with a draftsman and created the floor plan as she wished... not everyone's cup of tea, but it is hers and she loves it. It is on 5 acres on a quiet, country road. She is single and loves to entertain... I'm sure that will make more people aghast at the size/scale of things, but once again, her prerogative. Furthermore, said draftsman is NOT a designer to any degree, so things such as ceiling design and kitchen layout are loose at best, the builder works those things out in real time in the space... sometimes with a designer, oftentimes not (welcome to rural Tennessee). The builder recommended she work with a kitchen designer, but she did not, so here I am just trying to help her out a tiny bit for a better outcome.


    At the framing stage, there is still quite a bit of flexibility, hence why trying to quickly make some (at least good) decisions.


    Despite some mean spirited and unhelpful comments (burn the whole thing down and start over! ok, sure. lol), thank you for the helpful comments that were given... and the entertainment!


    Maybe if I'm feeling generous I'll post the entire floorplan so you can go wild :)



  • just_janni
    2 months ago

    I do hope OP comes back and works with the kitchen wizards like buehl and others. This kitchen looks "interesting" in 2D, but feels too pinterest-y / Kardashian-ish for real people who love to cook and entertain.


    Friend can have a beautifal AND functional kitchen if they want - but don't think this is the latter at all.

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    2 months ago

    IMO she should get an actual independant KD and I never deign a kitchen until the appliances are on hand. Too may variables . I do to think anyone needs a 48" range unless they cook for 20 3 x a day. I run a catering biz from my home and a 36" 6 burner stove is all I need. The venting for a 48" range is not only expensive but noisy . This whole house has issues . If you don't want criticism then this is the wrong place to ask questions. A true frien will speak up to a friend so thta they do not make huge expensive mistakes which this house is full of.

  • anj_p
    2 months ago

    With a 48" range make sure she has a good HVAC contractor on board, and it needs to be done now, otherwise she'll be stuck with an expensive range and hood that don't meet code and no good way to retrofit it back in. 12" duct min (needs to fit into the framing).

    If she cooks a lot she needs much bigger aisles. At least 48". In front of a 36" column? I'd want at least 60".

    And absolutely this kitchen needs a prep sink. It's bigger than the restaurant kitchen I worked in.

    Fridge should go by the dining room. Freezer can go anywhere but personally I prefer them together.

  • HU-457756048
    2 months ago

    I think it is just that if it is only a draft design that your friend “ loves “ , but that to me look so dysfunctional for real cooking and entertaining, it makes me wonder if she is just not good at translating the drawing to real life - a trait I can certainly share, hence always interested in how more experienced folks view various layouts & generate new ideas. I mean, what does she love about it? The layout, that is. That seems much different to me than loving a type of stone, wood finish, ceiling height , massive stone fireplaces, views to other rooms, island seating and so on, that an individual finds important to incorporate, or loving a layout with a particular flow, number of steps , zones.
    So far I’m not grasping how any such things are articulated, and that’s why it seems hard to offer specific small changes, because not understanding what are the underlying goals/ driving force.

  • sheepla
    2 months ago

    @Jordyn Spann You are such a good sport. Like you said, if you are willing to dig through the overkill, there is good advice to be found!

  • shead
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    I'm sorry for the entire layout is incredibly dysfunctional from having a corner fireplace, a door opening to a hallway in the center of the room which makes traffic flow HORRIBLE and usable room space very limited, the kitchen, master layout, etc. Having more space in a room does not always make the room more functional and in this case, it surely DOES NOT.

  • mcarroll16
    2 months ago

    The kitchen is not set up to serve the dining room well, and would need a major redesign to do so. Maybe your friend primarily entertains in the family room? If the dining room is for formal meals 3x a year, carry on (with some tweaks). If she wants to use it weekly, the dish cleaning and storage area needs to move much closer.


    I've always been happiest in kitchens that have countertop immediately across an aisle from the cooktop. It's great to just pivot to grab prep ingredients, or set down a hot pot. Having double islands that split right there just destroys the major utility of an island. One island the length of the range countertop would be much more useful.


    The hallway to the master bedroom is not just inconvenient, it's a huge waste of space. If your friend was willing to put in a door from the lower side of the kitchen, where emilyam suggested, that entire hallway could be used for more pantry, or a wider bathroom. We had a "pantry" in one house that was a 4' x 9' closet. We lined one wall with 12" deep shelves and stored the small appliances, canned goods, vacuum and brooms. Super useful.

  • PRO
    Bare Root Design Studio
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Jordyn...If she wants to contact me directly, I'd be more than willing to do a complimentary Zoom session with her to re-group.

  • Buehl
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    No trolling for business on this site! Even "complimentary".

  • PRO
    Bare Root Design Studio
    2 months ago

    thank you for that Buehl..I've been a Pro on Houzz since 2011 and didn't know that helping when "complimentary" was a "No No." I sincerely apologize.

  • Chris
    2 months ago

    Hi. Maybe your friend could go to a store like Lowes or Home depo where their cabinet people could do some cabinet renderings if she’s not into hiring a professional kitchen designer. At least to get some sort of visualization of how it will look.

  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    2 months ago

    I doubt that HD or Lowes will do renderings for anyone unless they are going to purchase the cabinets from them. And actually many of their designers are professional kitchen designers--I know a very talented designer who works for them.

  • Chris
    2 months ago

    They did it for us🤷‍♀️

  • Chris
    2 months ago

    …And someone’s gotta make these cabinets… would it be unusual that even a custom cabinet maker wouldn’t make some renderings. It’s so hard to visualize any space from blueprints. Kitchen function is so important. I imagine your friend doesn’t want to pay more $$ for a designer. Lowes or Home Depot will do it complimentary as part of purchasing. We used them for past bathrooms. It’s a very helpful endeavor. We had help with the kitchen, but the builder talk us out of using them because of some our space issues ( plus he had a cabinet guy he liked to use).

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    2 months ago

    Paraphrasing a comment, that applies here, about a kitchen design from a few years ago:

    "Whoever designed your kitchen has sentenced you to a lifetime of hard labor."

  • Buehl
    2 months ago

    @Bare Root Design Studio -- it's really just the "Home" forums that came from GardenWeb. The forums original to Houzz may allow it, but the Home forums have always had a standing rule that no one should be looking for business or promoting their business. Offering a "complimentary" consultation is skirting the rules, but most do so in the hopes of getting business. If you didn't mean that, then I apologize.

    If you notice other Pros who regularly post here offer their advice but do not offer their services - complimentary or not.

  • PRO
    Dhi4u
    last month

    Not much into the kitchen design thing. But from what others are saying, the design appears to be significantly flawed and needs a major changeover. However, one thing that I got on my mind is that the drawing room opening can be moved near the family room wall for a bit easier movement and fridge/refrigerator placement.