Hi, Charmaine,

You indicated that the original portion of your home is over heated and over cooled so there's a good chance your existing system has the required capacity--and that your problem is limited to an air distribution problem.

Your system should have balancing dampers installed which allow you to adjust the airflows to the various spaces. Even if you need to add them, it's worth a try compared with making a sizable investment in additional equipment. Not every HVAC contractor is qualified or equipped to perform air balancing. Search for one in your area who is certified to do it.

Charmaine: Keep looking and getting options for solutions. Your existing quote are ridiculous, you original budget sounds like more than enough to run new ductwork in an attic and a replacement system.

Thank you both

I hadn’t considered the dampers being installed vs a new system It’s something I’ll look into

Where the newer additions are there is no heat in the winter and not cool in the summer while the original footprint is overheated and cooled.

It would be wonderful if installing dampers solves the problem you described. But I am skeptical it is going to make a noticeable difference on keeping the temperature of the two the additions comfortable in the summer and winter. The fact you are getting very different proposals at very high prices leads me to believe you have a complex heating and cooling problem to solve.

Has anyone proposed adding a mini split to each of the additions and leaving the main HVAC system and duct work as is?

"... leads me to believe you have a complex heating and cooling problem to solve. "

C'mon, Mike. HVAC is not rocket science and a cape is a pretty simple geometry for a home. There are two straightforward issues to address: the first is the heating/cooling capacity needed to condition the home including the two additions versus the capacity of the existing system. Second is an air distribution issue--making sure that the required air flows are provided to each room based on the individual room heating/cooling loads. Assuming the existing system has remaining useful life expectancy, the contractor(s) need to do the manual J, S, D and T calculations--which they'll need to verify whether the existing system can be made to work or a new, higher capacity system and/or different duct work needs to be installed. If the capacity of the existing system is adequate, a combination of adjusting fan speed and balancing dampers will be worth a professional assessment before installing a replacement system that will have higher cost and likely to have issues of its own.

I agree with your over all method of solving the problem. First verify is there enough capacity, then figure out how to distribute it evenly. I am all in favor in coming up with the simplest and least costly solution. The question is why have the four contractors proposed solutions that cost $34K - $50K? Are they incompetent, greedy, or both?

This area is located about an hour from where I live. If it were closer I would recommend the HVAC contractor I use. The first thing he would do is a load calculation and measure the duct work. Have any of these high priced contractors done this as part of their proposals?

Unfortunately, replacement HVAC contractors have done business for years by using rules of thumb, coin tosses, and smoke and mirrors to size and select HVAC equipment to the detriment of homeowners. More demanding regulations and permit requirements and more educated buyers will change the status quo, but it will take time.

What are the ducts constructed of? What will new ducts be constructed of? Who determined it's necessary to replace the ducts? Exactly what is wrong with ducts that wasn't wrong 10-20-30 years ago?

Have your contractor do Manual J load calculation and determine what size unit to need and where you need the right size ducts.

This plan was done for this addition, everything is calculated and there is no "looking up in the sky and pulling out what size unit and whatnot is needed"

So I went up and took some photos where the original set up is located there is spray foam. From what I’ve been learning about the house I think the original builder was an architect or something and was using geo thermal to offset the cooling units. Where the ductwork is covered in aluminum is
Where the addition ductwork came into play i believe. The cooling unit is the largest size for a residential home so I’m pretty sure it’s capable of cooling the house.

We have had someone suggest adding mini splits which are I believe about 27k for the 4 room that they would cover. My issue with that is putting that type of money to solve that problem knowing that at some point the heating and cooling system will have to be dealt with. Right now we have an AC unit upstairs which cools in the summer and it’s comfortable enough in the winter. We have a wood burning fireplace that is not up to code and we considered adding a gas insert to compensate for the heating on that side of the house until we can figure this out. I just want to make the right decision the first time and not have to spend a lot of money with trial and error if that could go towards a more permanent fix. The system is operating fine right now as I’m not in need of repairs, but I’m sure there’s not too much life left on it and will have to be addressed sooner than later

In general, you don't remedy a problem with an existing system by hanging on additional equipment and controls. If the existing system has a remaining life expectancy of more than a couple of years, then focus on fixing the existing system and making it condition the entire home. If not, focus on a complete system replacement that will comfortably condition the entire home.

You are playing a fool's game and there's plenty of fools online more than willing to play it with you.

@klem1,

Do you have any specific, actionable advice to offer the OP or are you intent on validating your prior post by serving as one of the fools?

I have no advice I feel op should spend money on and believe we should be honest with op. Now will you please validate problems you have solved in past 6 months for people here. Put thread headings in your list so everyone can go to thread conclusion where folks thank you for assisting them to successfully fix their problem.

Whether or not a particular thread or houzz.com as a whole is helpful for posters is up to individual posters to decide. Your criticism of houzz.com as a forum for helping folks suggests you should invest your time elsewhere.

I have no advice I feel op should spend money on and believe we should be honest with op. Now will you please validate problems you have solved in past 6 months for people here.

Charmaine, This post isn't about replying to Klem, it's more about highlighting his request for more info.

Because of where you live I didn't respond right away because?

• You don't live in my market
• The house is older with additions (complicates everything)
• You're trying to cut costs (more complications)
• Threatening to move if you don't find what you want (a good way for promises made and lost from anyone you hire -- they will sell you and then run.)
• The cost of everything is sky high (if you can even find what you need)

How this forum board goes "most of the time"

If you don't post specific things to help you're not helping -- post gimmicks or cost references to things you don't know because you don't know them because you're a home owner or a builder who would hire a sub contractor to do what you're talking about on a forum board. (There are many who like to flash higher credentials of a gold collar job, to fight over a blue collar job they don't do. This is considered 'helping'.)

This is essentially another highlight to what Klem said about playing a fools game and those willing to enlighten you.

To the meat of the issue because you posted pictures to show more clearly but even with what you posted in picture form only gives a small remote idea of this particular job. I can now see better why the additions have the problems they do. The duct system I assume is the original duct system to the home?

The builder says this again to highlight the con game if you will:

In general, you don't remedy a problem with an existing system by hanging on additional equipment and controls. If the existing system has a remaining life expectancy of more than a couple of years, then focus on fixing the existing system and making it condition the entire home.

I will add this to it: You don't add additions to a home without first determining the needs for heating and cooling. (making it work is different from designing it to work) I assume they put a roof on the additions, not to be snarky but this situation is what it is and the costs to do as you suggest -- it's not the run of the mill job. It's complicated because of what was done / hasn't been done to this house that should have been done.

When you don't care if it will work or not? That's what you have now. Not to be snide, but at some point you have to be honest about this situation or you'll get taken for a ride no where pleasant.

The duct system should be scrapped if you plan to include using it for the additions, because the house. If the system has issues then replace the HVAC equipment as well.

While moving and selling this place is an option you have no guarantee that where you move to next won't have worse problems. Oh well I'll buy new then... just recently 3 out of 4 home owners surveyed have regret with home purchases over the last few years. Then closing costs, higher interest rates is yet another problem with this plan.

If you hate the home? Well then sell it and move, the next box is likely to have problems regardless. Cutting losses is always an option as I don't know how much of this story we don't know yet.

System design typically starts with a fresh slate. If your house had nothing but flex duct, this would make it easier in one way and harder in another because it's extremely difficult to find flex duct in any size other than 4 or 5 inch.

What I say doesn't help? If you're getting fairly similar bids over and over there's usually a good reason for it. A complicated job gone wrong isn't fun either.

"The duct system should be scrapped if you plan to include using it for the additions, because the house."

What? Were you even awake when you wrote that, Ray? We don't know enough about the duct system nor the size and heating/cooling requirements of the additions to prescribe scrapping the ductwork. Just like in the health care world, diagnosis comes before prescription.

because we don't know the full story Charles.

Let the builder whack-a-mole begin...

Charles Ross Homes pathetically stated, " Whether or not a particular thread or houzz.com as a whole is helpful for posters is up to individual posters to decide. Your criticism of houzz.com as a forum for helping folks suggests you should invest your time elsewhere."

It's no surprise you didn't name threads where you helped someone solve something because you have never touched a wrench and therefore incapable. From the day you darkened the door you've done nothing but post links and toss spitballs. Understandably people that could help left rather than suffer your daily tantrums and impotent carrying on. You foolishly put a burr under your own blanket by speaking when not spoken to then inviting me to leave. I'll invest time where I can do the most good and right now that is insisting you name past threads where you solved hvac problems.

Charles Ross Homes pathetically stated, " Whether or not a particular thread or houzz.com as a whole is helpful for posters is up to individual posters to decide. Your criticism of houzz.com as a forum for helping folks suggests you should invest your time elsewhere."

If you want to offer genuine help, than please do so.

Always willing to help you Charles... you said it so it must be true.

Click to enlarge.

I'm not a mechanical contractor and I can't pull a mechanical permit in Virginia. My contractor's license doesn't allow me to design HVAC systems. But my PE license does.

Charles Ross Homes " I'm not a mechanical contractor and I can't pull a mechanical permit in Virginia. My contractor's license doesn't allow me to design HVAC systems. But my PE license does."

Which makes you equivalent to a fortune teller claiming to better handle IRAs than financial advisers.

Not a particularly good simile, klem. Financial advisors are regulated in the U.S. according to what services they provide. Engineers are regulated at the state level. Fortune tellers aren't regulated here in Virginia except for the need to obtain a local business license--which, of course, they'd already know....

Engineering is considerd a gold collar job.

HVAC is a blue collar job.

When you always have to bend over to pick the fruit of your efforts?

Is there a licensed fortune teller who can tell us what happens in this situation?

We'll leave no stone unturned here. ha, ha.

Ray,

You've repeatedly called me on my assertion that builders don't design mechanical systems. I stand by that statement. Many of the problems with HVAC systems reported on houzz.com are rooted in improper design, improper installation or a combination of both. There are professionals who do design work, professionals who do installation work and some who do both. An HVAC design professional doesn't need to breathe Freon to do his or her job any more than an architect needs to swing a hammer. Get over it.

Charles Ross Homes

Ray,You've repeatedly called me on my assertion that builders don't design mechanical systems. I stand by that statement. Many of the problems with HVAC systems reported on houzz.com are rooted in improper design, improper installation or a combination of both. There are professionals who do design work, professionals who do installation work and some who do both. An HVAC design professional doesn't need to breathe Freon to do his or her job any more than an architect needs to swing a hammer. Get over it.

Charles what you are whining about can be be explained in various ways and mine is that it's a Texas thing. Nolen Ryan summed it up "It ain't bragging if you can do it".

I totally agree the crowd you've run with all your life only understands what happens on their desk, out of their tool bag or whatever their little corner is but that isn't true for everyone in construction. Here's one that will not hire you or one of your comrades that only understand a small part of innerworkings of the operation. You will never see a billboard with their name,never get a spam email asking for business or other type solicitation. Mention the company name in the NE quadrant of Texas (an area larger than entire state of Illinois) and a person might say "where do I know them from"? The answer isn't likely because they built something for them but most likely because they made a contribution to their charitable cause. Their jobs range from 1500 sq ft Barndominiums to small school district campus buildings with mm homes as their specialty. Plans are drawn in house and the architect could fetch a speed square,7018 electrodes or plumb bob for a laborer is asked. The owner has experience to start the engine drive and run beads on I-beam or jump on the Bobcat and move material if called on. There are some other companies of equal stature and I've know some like you describe Charles. They didn't know how to do jobs in the trench but they wore big cowboy hats,drove new cars,smoked $10 cigars and slapped backs with folks in high places. When I say high places,I mean high place like President Of The USA. Billy Sol Estes was a Texas millionaire that rubbed shoulders with LBJ. Rex Cauble was a man's man when it comes to big hats,shiny boots and lavish parties. No conversation about big shots in the construction business is complete unless we mention Danny Faulkner,Mayor James Tolar and banker Spencer Blain. Their wealth was at one time estimated in the billions and the Faulkner the head man not only didn't know beans about working in the trench,he didn't even have above 5th grade education. So yes Charles,a man in business can roll in money without getting dirt under his nails but in my book that doesn't mean he is intelligent or successful. The reason all those people are from North Texas is because I had multiple opportunities to work for all them but only took one up on the offer and even though I long ago stepped down to hand over the reins,I'm proud to say the name I was doing business under 50 years ago can still be seen on truck doors at sites of the only company above still in business. So don't try telling me it's best to ride shoulders of men doing work I don't know how to do myself in order to reach success. It's a Texas thing Charles,I don't expect you to understand and that doesn't make you a bad boy.

An HVAC design professional doesn't need to breathe Freon to do his or her job any more than an architect needs to swing a hammer. Get over it.

It was a joke to illustrate a point Charles. You're doing a job that produces low hanging fruit. For every question there is an answer regardless whether you want to own it or not. It's all too easy for an engineer to look down their nose at something -- there's usually a good reason why they are in that position to begin with.

HVAC is a job anyone can do, but that doesn't mean they should. Even you yourself Charles, say you take a short cut -- make concessions to say I don't have to be a licensed Mechanical contractor to pull a permit. If you take one short cut, you'll not stop there.

To me this doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, it at some point it generates work for me. If I've seen one builder tricks, rug pulls -- I've seen them all. A permit is just a legality to make the install legit, not all areas require permits for HVAC, nor does a permit rectify a problematic installation. I've seen pretty HVAC installs not work worth the lumber it was installed upon. Just because it turns on and off only means so much. There is no amount of freon breathing gonna fix things like that.

You'll have the crowd that believes a brand name will fix everything. A silver bullet that promises to kill all werewolfs and vampires for the price of 1,000's less than what it will take to really fix something. But hey, we only need to worry about the next year or two --- we'll be long gone before they see this gimmick is a gimmick.

It's one thing to have 5 or more people involved in a project that know their roles explicitly and to do them above and beyond what is required of them / then report and address problems as they come... And all of that comes together masterfully? So where is the evidence of that?

The evidence or the likelihood (the odds) of that working to any large extent of professional home building, HVAC as well as all the other trades we wouldn't be at a place and a time such as this:

3 out 4 home owners have regrets with recent home purchases (pandemic purchases)

Is this something new or profound? No. Home building is more or less a boom to bust type part of the economy. Because this expansion period has gone on much further than what is typical people lose track of historical trends and believe a myth that this is something new.

"HVAC is a job anyone can do, but that doesn't mean they should." I don't share the view that anyone can do it. If it's true that anyone can do it, there would be no state licensing requirements for HVAC contractors. HVAC, like other trades, requires requires some minimal competency. Historically, residential HVAC has not been subject to the same level of scrutiny in plan review and not subject to the same level of inspection as other systems in new construction. Those both go to zero for HVAC replacements except in states which require and actually enforce permit requirements for replacements. Houzzers will be well served to check whether permits and inspections of replacement HVAC systems are required in their area and choose a contractor that follows the rules.

I don't share the view that anyone can do it.

Then you are contradicting yourself when you tell me I should post solutions to this board for free then, Charles.

Each state has differing rules in terms of state licensing requirements for HVAC as well as the need or requirement to pull a permit. There has to be an inspector to do this job, it's not done remotely from a forum board. (I say this in jest because certain people here think this job can be done from the comfort of your own keyboard. I also say it to paint a picture in your mind.)

City limits vs county there's more changes / some certain towns within certain areas can have rules / requirements of their own.

How illogical, even for you, Ray. A professional's credentials and day job hourly rates shouldn't preclude them from offering free, helpful advice and potential solutions to problems posted here on houzz.com If you're not willing to do so, what's the point of participating in the forum?

While I haven’t read through this whole thread, the PO says the house was built in the ‘80s and might have had geothermal at one time. If that’s so, ground loops that are about 40-yrs old might still have plenty of life left in them.

Have you tried to determine where these ground loops might be, their capacity and condition?

This could be part of your solution at a manageable cost for the efficiency and life cycle it would provide.

IMPO

SR

How illogical, even for you, Ray.

So you then can turn around and claim HVAC so and so's can't do anything, go to your favorite youtube channels that the titles say sabotage hack jobs on nearly every title? He also complains about DIY but provides the content for them. This also makes complete sense.

Or complain to me that it requires more than freon breathing? Or it's not rocket science -- it's easy and anyone can do it...

But then say ------ I don't share the view that anyone can do it?

This is Charles way of making sense. It's easy flip the coin over it's the same thing on the other side. (It's magic -- there's no room here for second opinions just free ones.)

See when I say something I mean it. Why I am here? I thought that was evident it's a forum board about HVAC and I do HVAC for a living. All of it, not just being used as a permit puller here.

I don't do other things and then come here to pretend. You (the reader) have choices (Charles doesn't have choices he's trapped to the blame game), if you like using pretenders by all means help yourself.

The reason 9 times out of 10 that something is free is because it wasn't worth anything to begin with.

Ray,

I think you're just on the wrong channel, my friend. If you want to be paid for your HVAC expertise and dispensing troubleshooting and repair suggestions on the web, you should speak with the folks at JustAnswer about joining their team.

https://www.justanswer.com/sip/HVAC?r=ppc|ga|1|Rest%20of%20World%20-%20Non%20English|HVAC&JCRN=HVAC%20Technicians&JPKW=hvac%20specialist&JPDC=S&JPST=&JPAD=76041462603&JPMT=p&JPNW=g&JPAF=txt&JPCD=20120207&JPRC=1&JPOP=Darren_Andrew9sec_Trans&cmpid=121416363&agid=16607590323&fiid=&tgtid=kwd-1985975959&ntw=g&dvc=c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj5zCgP_f-wIV08DICh2UawJ_EAAYASAAEgKbofD_BwE

Members of their network have 24/7 access to technicians to assist with problems over the internet for one low monthly fee. You just need to get your piece of that action.

JustAnswer.com. Don't delay. Call today, lad!