Howdy DC: Lets see, watermelons first. The crux is, by maintaining proper soil nutrients (for plant uptake) adjusted on a weekly basis allows a much greater production period? Would that extend out to possibly turning an annual plant into a perennial or pseudo-perennial in theory. By example I mean maybe you could plant a watermelon crop in ths spring of 2009, harvest through the entire year and then continue on at least into the summer of 2010. The correlation was between soil nutrient levels and plant nutrient uptake on a weekly basis? I assume nutrient uptake was a measure of certain nutrients found in a particular part of the plant tissue. Peer reviewed science. I'm guessing, but the vast majority of farmers probably don't know what a peer reviewd journal is, that's fine, if I was farming it is unlikely I'd have time to read them let alone keep up with the science in more than one field. Really it is the job of extension services to bring the information obtained from research to the field level. If you asked any grain farmer whose family has been farming for at least 2 generations I think they would say that productivity has increased dramatically over the last 100 years. So long as the research continues, I expect that trend to continue though, others would disagree for a number of reasons. One reason for my optimism comes from examples such as yours about the 4 ranchers. This indicates to me that all of the unknown still exists waiting to be discovered. The research conducted at universities has limited value unless it has passed what is essentially the gold standard in science, peer review. In the horticultural sciences, that means passing peer review by organizations like The American Journal of Horticultural Science. An equivalent in medicine would be The Journal of the American Medical Association. That is not to say farmers can only learn from extension services. Know doubt you know of private consultants. Having been one myself, I know they can have some distinct advantages over universities. They especially learn from a wide spectrum of literature and experiences. If I was farming for money, I'd take it where I could get it, even if it was from the back of a cereal box, BUT NOT WITHOUT SCRUTINY AND EXAMINATION. Speaking of Ag schools, I've been in touch with a friend of mine at one lately. Until the last 5 years or so, the school was an excellent research university, among the best in this country if not the world. He tells me it is going down the toilet, that they have lost their focus and sight of their mission. Very unfortunate. Ag research AND farmers have been a Tour de Force in this country for many decades.

Informative and thoughtful posts, Sue and Blutranes. Thank you. :) If I was the only person eating what I grow, I'd have no hesitation about adding pee to the garden. But, I give away food all summer long and well into the winter. My friends already think I'm a tad strange when I haul home 50lb bags of alfalfa and weekly loads of UCG and pile them up with leaves raked up in the park and yard waste bags scrounged from the street after dark, then cover up the lasagna layers with cardboard, paper, and burlap. They tend to look at me rather askance, when I ramble on about the crucial importance of the microherd and how to encourage diverse bacteria and fungal growth. Part of my own faith as an organic gardener is to spread the word about how it works. I want others to see and understand the process, as well as the product. When I can demonstrate the clear visible difference in soil which has been improved by organic materials -- and show the results, in increased plant growth and productivity -- I like to hope it will encourage others to try to do the same. However, if I told them I was achieving these results by peeing on my compost heaps, I think it would have a more negative impact. And I don't want to lie to my friends about what I'm doing. Or lie about what goes into the food I give to them. Like Blutranes, disclosure is a major issue for me. Perhaps if (when!) people grow more familiar with the many sides of small-scale organic gardening, folks will be more accepting and understanding of composting with pee. For now, for me -- I'd rather not piss them off. :) All the best, -Patrick

In case the link is ever broken, cut and paste the PDF file here: Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor, Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University The Myth of Gypsum Magic âAdding gypsum to your yard or garden will improve soil tilth and plant healthâ The Myth Upon continued prodding from one of my university extension colleagues, I recently watched several episodes of a well-known gardening program on television. My kids joined me, alerted by my animated responses to the hostâs non-stop torrent of advice. Among many amazing discoveries I learned that by adding gypsum to my yard or garden I would improve my problem soils by changing the particle size and loosening compaction. Further searching on the web revealed that gypsum would also improve drainage, decrease acidity, and eliminate soil salts. Previously, I had heard of gypsum for use in soil reclamation projects, but not for a typical urban landscape. Since gypsum is simply calcium sulfate, could this chemical truly transform soil structure and serve as a fertilizer for yards and gardens? The Reality This myth falls into the category of agricultural practices misapplied to ornamental landscapes. Gypsum effectively changes the structure and fertility of heavy clay soils, especially those that are heavily weathered or subject to intensive crop production. Gypsum also improves sodic (saline) soils by removing sodium from the soil and replacing it with calcium. Therefore, one can see improvement in clay soil structure and fertility, and desalinization of sodium-rich soils, by using gypsum. What other effects will gypsum have on soil and plant health? There are a number of scientific studies on gypsum usage both in the literature and on websites. Briefly, researchers have found: ⢠Gypsum does not usually change soil acidity, though occasional reports of both increasing and decreasing pH exist; ⢠Gypsum can increase leaching of aluminum, which can detoxify soils but also contaminates nearby watersheds; ⢠Gypsum can increase leaching of iron and manganese, leading to deficiencies of these nutrients; ⢠Gypsum applied to acid soils can induce magnesium deficiency in plants on site; ⢠Gypsum applied to sandy soils can depress phosphorus, copper and zinc transport; ⢠Gypsum can have negative effects on mycorrhizal inoculation of roots, which may account for several reports of negative effects of gypsum on tree seedling establishment and survival; ⢠Gypsum is variable in its effects on mature trees; ⢠Gypsum will not improve fertility of acid or sandy soils; ⢠Gypsum will not improve water holding capacity of sandy soils; and ⢠Gypsumâs effects are short-lived (often a matter of months) With the exception of arid and coastal regions (where soil salts are high) and the southeastern United States (where heavy clay soils are common), gypsum amendment is just not necessary in non-agricultural areas. Urban soils are generally amalgamations of subsoils, native and non-native topsoils, and - in home landscapes - high levels of organic and non-organic chemical additives. They are also heavily compacted and layered (and gypsum does not work well on layered soils). In such landscapes, it is pointless to add yet more chemicals in the form of gypsum unless you need to increase soil calcium levels. This nutrient deficiency can be quickly identified by any soil testing laboratory for less than a bag of gypsum costs. (If you need to improve sulfur nutrition, itâs wiser to use ammonium sulfate). To reduce compaction and improve aeration in nearly any landscape, application of an organic mulch is more economically and environmentally sustainable. The Bottom Line ⢠Gypsum can improve heavy clay soil structure and remove sodium from saline soils ⢠Gypsum has no effect on soil fertility, structure, or pH of any other soil type ⢠Most urban soils are not improved by additional gypsum ⢠Before adding gypsum or any chemical to a landscape, have soil analysis performed to identify mineral deficiencies, toxicities, and soil character ⢠Adding gypsum to sandy or non-sodic soils is a waste of money, natural resources, and can have negative impacts on plant, soil, and ecosystem health For more information, please visit Dr. Chalker-Scottâs web page at http://www.theinformedgardener.com.

Garry and M.M.; rainfall will not make a soil profile compacted. It will certainly result in a compacted crust in heavy soils, but that would be only the top half centimeter or so. If you have heavy soils and you are irrigating with water that has significant amounts of sodium then you certainly will get a sodic/dispersive soil structure. When dry, a dispersive soil tends to be too hard for roots and seedlings to penetrate. It would be a far better idea to solve the sodium problem before the water enters the soil profile. In sodic soils, clay particles disperse rapidly when the soil becomes wet and it then sets hard when it dries. This is possibly what you see as being compaction. Compaction only occurs as a result of heavy traffic from animals or machines. Solve your sodium problem in your irrigation water and you will save a lot of expense. Soils with high sodium levels, or sodicity, can certainly benefit from applications of gypsum, which displace the sodium ions to improve soil porosity and water infiltration. Applying Gypsum of just about any sort will improve soil structure thereby improving water infiltration and aeration. Micronised Gypsum is quite common; all it means is that it has been ground very finely. However your stuff, Gyp-Life, is in a liquid form like "Clay-Breaker" so that using the word micronised is strange (but I guess it sounds good). I am not saying it is snake-oil but there are other products out there that are just as good and possibly cheaper. Humic acid is the product of the microbial decomposition of plant and animal matter. You will find it in all composts etc. When ever we mix organic matter in with our soil we add Humic acid. When we mulch our soils, Humic acid washes into the soil when we water it or it receives rain. It is simple soil chemistry. M.M., by all means try the stuff but be aware of what is going on in the soil itself like drainage, soil structure pH, etc. before you do anything. Even get a soil test if you can afford it. I never cease to be suspicious of new products that preach magical cures but do not explain why they are better than what we already have, be it toothpaste, anti-aging creams or even fertilisers. Garry go ahead and use the stuff by all means but that is not to say there is another easier and less costly way.