SHOP BY DEPARTMENT
Houzz Logo Print
historian79

Layout Suggestions?

Danielle Gottwig
2 months ago
last modified: 2 months ago

It has been suggested in another thread that I post the layout of my U-shaped with Peninsula kitchen for comment. Below is a kitchen photo and the full dimensions of the current kitchen, with the current base cabinet sizes mapped onto it. My current plan is to replicate these base cabinet sizes:


The upper cabinet plan is more up in the air. I could replace my current upper cabinets; but rather than do that, I have been strongly considering putting upper cabinet storage primarily on the range wall (Maybe: 3" Filler/36"Upper Cab/36"Vent Hood/36"Upper Cab) and then removing some of the upper cabinetry from around the window. I plan to remove the OTR microwave and put in better ventilation.

A few parameters: I like the basic workflow the current kitchen. I do not want to get into the complication or expense of moving major elements like the plumbing or the range. I do not want to redo the floors or take out walls between rooms. That being the case, anything I do is going to involve small trades in space only.

There's an access panel in the wall left of the current refrigerator that requires some more investigation; for the moment it is safest to assume that some kind of occasional access to it is needed. I'm not worried about a refrigerator blocking it in, as a refrigerator can always be slid in/out.

I'm a little nervous about moving the sink off-center from the window. However, that 15" base cabinet next to the refrigerator is not an element to which I feel tied. I'm also not tied to the upper cabinet between the refrigerator and the window remaining in place or being any particular size.

For better or worse, there's not a whole lot of choice here, but I'm happy to share and see what other see. I've been messing with this for a long time and maybe there's some factor I've become blind toward over time.

Comments (58)

  • Rachel Lee
    2 months ago

    I did the same remodel in my kitchen, and in hindsight should have moved appliances around🙄. However, the space is still far better than it was. Word of caution- make sure the new base cabinets are the same depth AT THE BOTTOM as the old ones. Mine turned out to be narrower, and required some quick problem solving, which resulted in a band of different flooring around the perimeter. Shortening the peninsula would be ideal, but I bet the floor doesn’t go under the existing, so…. Leave the base size alone, trading doors for drawers. Eliminate the lazy Susan in the peninsula and fill the space from the dining side with a drawer cabinet. Eliminate the sink wall uppers and put up shelves ( glassware can go on those). I might add some narrow lowers where you have the shelves just to clean that you a little, you found store small appliances out of sight. Good luck!

    Danielle Gottwig thanked Rachel Lee
  • herbflavor
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    what is the actual goal to justify all new if basically its all going to be the same? seems you might be able to work with what you have given your disinterest in changing very much. that would amount to aesthetic refresh /editing and you can do a bit with that without gutting and replacing w basically the same.....reworking the space could provide a different outcome but as per your comments you dont care to.....

    Remodels · More Info


    . not sure about your exterior siding material but for the scale of your room the one window is proportionately small.... Long term improvement would be more; either increase that opening or another window . Enhance View / light/ A nicer feel is always created with better windows.....more window sq feet when that upgrade has never been tackled. This is the opportunity to do that.

    Danielle Gottwig thanked herbflavor
  • Related Discussions

    furniture layout suggestions

    Q

    Comments (2)
    Hello, saw your Tesoro floor post, I am researching as well ...which floor did u go with ? How is it ? Thanks
    ...See More

    Redecorating our sitting room - furniture layout suggestions

    Q

    Comments (3)
    Do you need a TV in the space ? Forget the loveseat they are really just a big chair get 2 more chairs then you will have 6 people always comfy . Realize the chairs will be bigger than 24"
    ...See More

    kitchen pantry layout suggestions.

    Q

    Comments (1)
    IMO instaed of this get some true oullout pantries to fill that space . A 3' deep pantry is useless everything gets lost in the back You could do 2 30" wide 24" deep pullots there and have more and better storage if that is not possible then just make that cabinet 24" deep like the rest of the counter it will aslo look better . The sketch is not helpful since it does not show the whole kitchen
    ...See More

    after 12 years... need furniture and layout suggestions

    Q

    Comments (15)
    That room seems dated now but the princples are the same. If you swapped out the green and rust accent fabrics with your colors it would be modern. Did you notice the spacing on the furniture? He packed a lot in that room and it's not crowded. After rewatching the videos, maybe the left chaise would be fine with the big ottoman... would it work for the feet...a little too close to sit next to the piano? I don't know I"m not in the room...but what a focal point...try it with the zebra print. Not round to match the curves of the piano, but hey, it could be nice. I'm not a pro so I'm in a little over my head now lol. I'm surprised I"m the only one here, usually there are lots of commenters. I think if you change a word in your original post and repost, the Houzz algorythm moves you up the search pages. Go to greatbigcanvas.com for canvas prints, a fun site and very reasonable...something big for behind the sofa the whole family loves. We have several from them.
    ...See More
  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Of course I could just keep the current kitchen. It's a viable option. I could change the appliances, the lighting and maybe the ventilation without taking everything apart. I'll probably do 2 of the 3 this year, maybe even 3/3 if I decide not to pull the trigger on a cabinet replacement.

    My goal is pretty modest: If can get better storage, that'd be helpful to me on a day to day basis. If I can update the look, that'd be a nice-to-have. Also the finish is really wearing down on some cabinets so it might be nice to do something about that.

    I'm not 100 percent against the kind of remodel where I'm replacing all the flooring on the first floor or messing with walls, etc., etc,: but realistically that is a project of another order of magnitude in terms of logistics and cost. So I'm ... careful about going too far past what I can handle.

  • herbflavor
    2 months ago

    the mass of items on black shelves isnt actually that great. A more compact efficient solution would be tall pantry cabinet or two right there. shallow depth would be fixed shelves..no rollouts..... and greater depth allows rollouts . Width to be determined after you assess what youd really need ..... since you list storage as one of the issues. what is the number of inches between that wall and end of peninsula . is the full peninsula dimension important or can those inches go back..maybe 3 stools?

    Danielle Gottwig thanked herbflavor
  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    The current peninsula countertop is about 97" long. The base cabinets beneath are about 95". The distance from the countertop edge to the wall is 46".

    Those are sloppy, rounded measurements so the exact dimensions are +/- a teeny bit. The exact width of the room is 143.25.

  • herbflavor
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    thats narrow but 12 in deep tall storage using some width can provide quite a bit. You just have to make decisions about cost and specefic game plan apparently. The black shelf change to cabinetry with doors would be on my list if the leaning were more to save money and keep the U shape and refresh that area. When you say "not a lot of choice" ..I dont see that.....your space is pretty generous. Limitations are mostly costs/ your actual situation/ tolerance for the work/ incovenience etc. We cant know that but any kitchen activity will have critical junctions w decisions and the necessary work to then execute. You have sort of a "middle of the road situation" ..not a bad kitchen but not great either.... I can see how its hard to pull the trigger and finalize something. I'd start figuring out something like these for 12 in deep storage [each a little different] instead of black shelves.....usually starting with something that I'd fee motivated about propels the situation forward .

    Canton Kitchen Remodel · More Info



    Chelmsford MA Cozy Kitchen · More Info



    Built-Ins · More Info



    Butler's Pantry · More Info


    The perk of setting this up would be the removal of cabinets flanking window as you wont need them and the light /window scape will be improved. then I might pause and in a couple years redo the actual U shape area, whether improve existing surfaces or alter / replace . A phased approach in this sense can assist you. If you think this out but it does not appeal then you will be telling yourself go ahead and edge closer to a full replacement project.


    gotta love these 2 recessed style [if you could and nice work for a local carpenter] ...then later when U side and peninsula gets scrutiny you may still have that full peninsula length if you desire...or clearance for an island ....so those decisions made only when you need to.

    North Andover, Massachusetts kitchen, Haymeadow · More Info



    Music and Mud · More Info


    Danielle Gottwig thanked herbflavor
  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Your point (and the previous comment upthread) about shifting to narrow builtins does make sense. Its worth thinking about.

    The only practical difficulty I can see with converting that narrow shelf unit to narrow built-ins (without also shortening the peninsula a bit) is that I don't have the recommended clearance there.

    I've lived in the house long enough to know for certain that my current breathing space between the edge of the peninsula counter and my shelf unit never, ever bothers me. It works for us and is therefore a victimless crime. But if we ever need make space to move some large object pass that corner ... or if a future home owner thinks that passby space is too narrow ... then moving a freestanding furniture over or removing it entirely is easy-peasy. I can always apologize for my rule violations & fix them. By contrast, a built in is a commitment that makes me respect the recommended clearances a little more than I otherwise would.

    Your point about phasing makes a lot of sense. It's entirely possible to fix the lights, or upgrade an appliance, or improve the ventilation, or replace the shelf separate from the main project. I can do any/all of these, pivot back to the cabinets, or do the cabinets, then the shelf wall, or what-have-you.

    Food for thought!

  • Buehl
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    So, the panel is at the floor level? I'm asking b/c based on your drawing it "sits on the floor". Is that correct? (You didn't provide any measurement for floor-to-panel, so I assume it's flush with the floor.)

    If that's the case, then the layout I've been working on may have to be re-thought. (I assumed it was around counter-height or higher.)

  • theresa21
    2 months ago

    If you change the 15" drawer base to a 9" tray cabinet, you can fit a 36" fridge with lots of room to spare for the left side of your fridge's door swing. You can use a half-depth floor to ceiling panel on the left side of the fridge to support the cabinet above the fridge.



  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Hi Buehl: Yes, it starts at the floor...

    Here's a picture:


  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Theresa, good idea about the half depth side panel.

    Won't the door swing still be a problem? I've got 34.5" now. If I cut the 15" base cabinet to 9" I pick up 6". Now I've got 40.5"

    If I put in fridge even smaller than 36"--let's say one of Fisher Paykel's 31.1" french door refrigerators--then I need about 32" min for the refrigerator and side panel. That leaves me 8.5 to wall. The door will open to 90 degrees for sure, but the full door swing requires 12 3/8" according to the manual. My LG 30" french door seems to be similar in its space needs. So I won't be out of the woods even with a big gap or filler there, right?

    I can get there if I trim the 15" cabinet still further, but it does leave the question of whether I'm OK with losing that much space just to avoid buying a single door fridge with a right hand hinge.

    (Someone let me know if I'm confused about the door swing requirements of these french door refrigerators....)

  • 3onthetree
    2 months ago

    Danielle, open the darned panel cover. There are no monsters in there.

  • theresa21
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Won't the door swing still be a problem? I've got 34.5" now. If I cut the 15" base cabinet to 9" I pick up 6". Now I've got 40.5"

    I haven't done the math, but I guess it depends on the model and if the door swings into the room next door.



  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    3ontree:

    OK, I peaked. There's a couple of copper-colored lines that enter the house, turn, and run vertical right there. One feels warm to the touch and the other cold. There's also a round meal piece buried in that spray foam:



    I really don't know what I'm looking at, but our heat pump outside is aligned with this corner. So I'm thinking the warm/cold copper pipes belong to the hvac system. The third item might be water service to the sink side of the kitchen? Plumbing enters the kitchen right at this corner and runs behind the cabinets.

    If that's correct, I guess the question is whether theres a panel that screws off here because future access will be needed, or if someone just didn't want to fix their drywall..

  • 3onthetree
    2 months ago

    Great! Now you can move on with the Kitchen layout. There's no reason to have an access panel just for pipe joints. It is just like anywhere else in the house with joints. If there were shutoff valves, different story. That work was from a previous remodel, and the foam is probably because of holes to the exterior wall.

    As far as layout, I would be on team rethink and redo completely. No reason to spend a fortune on new cabinets and counters, only to have the exact same layout. You might as well just reface at that point. Not even mentioning more/better electrical, lighting, and removing the soffits. And if I read it right, I think some of your stated plans were actually to reduce the amount of cabinetry space - which seems to go against what you need evidenced by the open shelving unit.

    If you do decide to save up for a full remodel, consider that your Dining Room actually is and still functions as a Family Room because of it's larger size and fireplace on this floor. In most projects I have been aware of, typically with these needs the formal (smaller) Living Room is dedicated to a Music/Library, and the Family Room becomes the only space for sitting Guests. That might possibly create, or want, a different layout for the Kitchen.

    Danielle Gottwig thanked 3onthetree
  • Buehl
    2 months ago

    OK -- I'll go back to working on my layouts with the assumption that you probably don't need it OR, if it turns out we're wrong and you do need am access, consider moving it to the other side of the wall (i.e., on the wall on the Music Room side).

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Hmmm....! Really? If so, that's great. Let's say there doesn't need to be an access panel on that wall.

    If that's the case, then I could change the base/tall cabinet layout to something more like this:


    By changing the order of elements and trading the 15" base cabinet for a narrow tall pantry+filler, the refrigerator moves off the wall far enough to prevent collisions between the refrigerator doors and objects. At least for 30-31" french door models.

  • 3onthetree
    2 months ago

    The reason I bring up about the Living usually is the room dedicated to a Music Room, is that it is located farther away from the main family congregation areas (Kitchen/Family). So less other noises, separation of incompatible activities, and more formal furniture (instruments). The Living is always smaller and more formal than a Family Room. The Family Room/informal Dining/Kitchen is usually closer to outdoor living.

    I am not suggesting you eliminate music from your life or not have furniture within a music area. I am not suggesting your Dining not be connected to the Kitchen. You simply have the table in the largest room with the fireplace, and your slider to the backyard is through the Music room. Lots of people do unique things compatible for certain phases and situations in life. Just bringing it up to allow you to think long term, where if you make expensive permanent changes (e.g. kitchen remodel), that those changes will work throughout the timeline of a home.

    You are free to arrange your spaces of your house how you live. I would suggest just refacing your cabinets as they sit to match your Living/Music decor.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    2onthetree, I tried to edit the post you were responding to -- and I accidentally deleted it.

    Anyway, what you say makes sense. Thanks for the observations. (BTW-If my deleted post sounded anxious, I didn't mean it to be. I'm just mulling everything over while reading through the feedback.)

    On refacing vs. a smaller remodel plan: You might have a point on the refacing. I think a lot depends on whether it makes sense to play around with the layout a little bit, or whether I really would be 1:1 replacing cabinets--and also what refacing will/will not do for me. And of course I need to price out some options.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Wow, Buehl. THANK YOU for all your work on this. I'm gobsmacked!

    Each of these are really interesting ideas. I'm going to have a lot of fun drinking coffee while getting my mind to absorb these alternatives.

    I'm going to make my most recent attempt (pantry/fridge/dw/sink/corner/range/corner/30/30) Plan 5 and spend some time really thinking about the work spaces and storage that each of these layouts offers. There's several things I need to process, like how I feel about having less work area at the peninsula, while gaining all that counterspace left of the sink.... and so on, and so on. What is really interesting at first blush is how many more options I have for configuration than occurred to me before. And without having to upend any of the adjoining rooms, but making the current U + adjoining wall relate in different ways.

  • Mrs Pete
    2 months ago

    Buhel, that's some solid work!

  • Buehl
    2 months ago

    Thank you @Mrs Pete!

  • njmomma
    2 months ago

    Wow! @Buehl

  • 3onthetree
    2 months ago

    Now that you are "access panel experienced," figure out the existing soffit too. Upstairs, see whether you have a toilet or an HVAC register at the wall right above the refrigerator. That will tell you what is in it if you don't want to poke a hole. It would be less conspicuous if it could align with cabinets below it.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    The tub/shower faucet, toilet, and sink faucet in a bathroom upstairs align closely with the bulkhead that runs perpendicular to the kitchen soffits and meets up with them in my current "refrigerator corner."

    There's a HVAC register too on the opposite wall of that bathroom (which is 5' from the plumbing, or thereabouts). However, there's HVAC in every room, so I'm not sure how telling any particular register is.

  • 3onthetree
    2 months ago
    last modified: last month

    What that can tell you is the way your joists run. GREEN for floor joists, with the BLUE duct supplying the Kitchen register in between the floor joists. The RED plumbing had to run under the joists, as a 3"-4" toilet pipe size is too big to run through holes in the joists. If there is a register upstairs in the bathroom against the window wall, that may be run either between the last joist space or in the soffit over the sink depending on how much plumbing piping had to transverse between the joists. It would also tell you that the wall next to the refrigerator is probably load bearing. You can verify joists by removing the ceiling register and peeking beside the duct.



  • Buehl
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    The following Kitchens FAQs may help you mull over your new design work:


    (Formatting may be all over the place in the above threads -- when Houzz bought out GardenWeb and "converted" the threads, they mangled the formatting of many threads. In some cases, they also truncated them so only parts of the threads are there. I think they eventually fixed the truncation issues, but not the formatting. It doesn't help that the formatting available on Houzz is very limited compared to what GardenWeb had.)

  • tracefloyd
    last month

    I'm a little nervous about moving the sink off-center from the window.


    Your gut is telling you you're correct to be nervous. The sink will forever look "off" and like a weird mistake. Like "I wonder why they have the sink like that. It's off center. Didn't they realize that when they put it in? Couldn't they have fixed it?"

    Fix it now before it's too late. I have seen a lot of houses and seen a lot of odd design choices and this is a biggie. It will be the only thing people notice about the kitchen, including yourself....please, just don't do it.


  • tracefloyd
    last month

    Oh I see the problem, the faucet is not centered on the sink either the faucet is not in the middle of the window, or the sink is not in the middle of the window. You are making this very hard on yourself. Why? Get a normal symmetrical sink/faucet and center it under the window.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Tracefloyd, I'm not sure if you are looking primarily at my current kitchen photo or the layout suggestions. If the original layout: the builder back in 1980 used a 36" corner and a little filler to get a 33" sink cabinet centered on the 45" window. The cabinet and sink are centered; the faucet only is off-center. It's really hard to tell this in the photo, which perhaps validates your point about it looking like something bad happened at first glance.

    That said, when you are standing in the kitchen in person (and are not so far away), the sink looks OK to me: the cabinet and sink are clearly centered on the window, and the sink type (a kidney shaped 3/4 bowl) makes you expect to see a faucet to one side. So nothing registers as wrong.

    I tend to want to center objects - I swear, it's a form of madness - but I've seen a lot of situations on Houzz where people have not done this for various reasons.

    At the moment, I'm spending a lot of time with sheloveslayout and Buehl's suggestions to consider moving the fridge off that long sink wall. If I do go that direction, I can make more of the "what-I-like-is" choices like placing the sink on-center to the window or wishing for a little more or less of some kind of storage, simply because I'm not so bullied by the refrigerator's requirements.

  • tracefloyd
    last month

    Okay then sounds good. You and I are on the same page as far as centering things and symmetry. An inch off and I notice it lol.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I've been looking closely at all of Buehl's layouts. And playing around with some of my own that incorporates various suggestions Buehl and others have made.

    In particular I've been thinking about how my options open up if I shorten the peninsula in order to allow that wall where my open shelves are today to be used maximally.

    Here's one idea among several I sketched out. My assumptions / objectives for this one were: Keep the sink centered on the window. Keep the range centered on its run. Maximize use of the currently underused wall. Prioriitze keeping activity zones separate.

    I'm wondering if you all think - particularly with the tall cabinets. Does it function / look OK have a refrigerator, pantries, and a built in microwave in a run like this? Is the arrangement the tall cabs OK? Would you do pantries with individual slideouts, or pull out pantries?



    Some notes on activity zones:

    I was thinking that pots, pans, knives, cutting boards, and all things related to non-bakery food prep could go in the cabinets around the range. That way all that stuff is next to the primary prep area (between the sink and the range) and secondary prep area (the peninsula counter) as well as handy to the range. A cook can do most everything he/she wants without having to leave the zone.

    I was thinking drinkware and baking things (stand mixer attachments, rolling pins, etc) could go into the cabinets left of the sink. The extra counter space over there could be a third space where the stand mixer could go, bread could be left to rise, cookies cooled, etc. The drinkware would be close to the sink, and out of the way of someone cooking at the range.

    I was thinking that all the food / supplies could go into the refrigerator and pantry cabinets, near to the landing space on the peninsula and main prep areas.

    Finally, I was thinking that if I put the microwave's tall cabinet further away from the prep areas, that might be good for a few reasons: (1) It gets the microwave away from the range, and off the counters; (2) I don't lose any lower drawer storage to the microwave; (3) our family's use of the microwave is usually for reheating coffee, making tea water, or reheating food, so it works pretty well to have it near the refrigerator and the dining area and out the main prep zones. Under the microwave I could have 2-3 drawers for dishes and silverware--and those would be right next to the table.

    WDYT? Good? Bad?

  • sheloveslayouts
    last month

    I agree shortening the peninsula will make for a better layout.

    There's no advantage to having narrow pantries flanking the fridge. Move the fridge as close to the music room doorway as possible to avoid the hip-clip situation between fridge and range.

    Aim to have a maximum 48" between microwave and countertop landing space - it looks too far from the pensinsula. Maybe put the mw high cabinet + base drawers to the far left of the sink.



    Danielle Gottwig thanked sheloveslayouts
  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    That's interesting. I'm going to let that idea sink in.

    What do you think of doing: refrigerator; one wider pantry; tall MW cabinet on that one wall? Depending on whether I can put enough pantry storage in one wider cabinet, without bumping the MW too far away from the counters?

  • sheloveslayouts
    last month

    PS I recognized your picture and I totally remember your gray kitchen! (I had to change my name - i'm benjesbride)

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Ohhh! Benjesbride! Hi! Yes, the gray Baltimore kitchen was mine. I loved that kitchen. I still love it, but I don't own it anymore! LOL.

    We moved 45 mins south for work. :)

  • sheloveslayouts
    last month

    Left to right you might do Pantry - MW - Fridge just to try to get the MW closer to safe landing zone. However, I don't have a pantry cabinet, so no point of reference of the benefits of having it closer to the kitchen proper than the MW.

  • herbflavor
    last month

    when you pull stuff out of fridge with its location on third wall.....anticipate where you will go with items......there will be no counter adjacent it appears.....so are you trotting across passage to music room to the long wall..... ...get more counter on that long wall .39 inches shared with dishwasher loading/ mwave landing / and near sink is a little tight. the end of peninsula is okay but do you think that spot is high demand? just be sure the drawers are set up for more than one person being there and getting utensils etc.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    One thing I couldn't figure out is if the MW cabinet and refrigerator can be next to each other, or if I need filler or a pantry between them.

    I see photos with MWs/ovens and refrigerators next to one another all the time online, but I keep thinking there might be conflict between the two appliance doors. Specifically, if the refrigerator door might hit the MW's handles.


    Can I think of the dining room table as a "safe landing area" as well as the counters? Something heated up in the microwave is usually headed for the table, not the kitchen proper.


    Herbflavor, I was thinking that the landing space for the refrigerator would be the peninsula counter. Do you think I need counters next to it?


  • herbflavor
    last month

    the peninsula is fine but address two people standing there and getting into a drawer..if one person shifts one step over can the drawers size you want open to retrieve for the 2nd person standing there. I prefer landing next to fridge personally but I think you'll be okay...I cant recall how many persons in your household..what kind of traffic flow thru here etc . The fridge doors are opening in a traffic lane so you have to weigh that.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    last month

    OK, I think I see your point. My thought on the corner cabinet and drawers on the peninsula is that I would fill them up with my pots, pans, spatulas, wood spoons, etc. The person needing to access them would generally be whoever is working the range.


    If someone is after glassware, dishes, or water, is preparing bread / cookies, all that stuff is all somewhere else.

  • herbflavor
    last month

    figure out the "somewhere else" . I grab the mayo / cheese slices and lettuce ....wanting a sandwich...or milk to pour cereal....where do I land and are the plates/butter knives etc handy and am I crisscrossing between sink/ stove/ prep persons and activities all the time? This is the homework that is key....where do things go and what is the ease or difficulty of the day to day functioning for the mutiple persons in your household. The nice thing is that the cabinetry has efficient storage features now so each spot can be optimized but figure out what you want from each spot and if the traffic flow works.

  • dan1888
    last month

    I'll throw in a possible option. The area under the stairs. If not in use from a hall or the music room could give you a lot of depth to recess the frig. If it is in use think about using it for the higher purpose of the frig. Recess it in so it sticks out 12" and put a shallow pantry on the kitchen side.

    Not comes the big change. Delete the peninsula. use the space to the window or as much as looks good for a wide drawer base cabinet. It's much more comfortable to sit at table height with your feet on the ground as an adult. Counter height doesn't give you the same effect. If you're thinking about a new range, consider induction.

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Took a closer look at how close I can/can't get the MW and Frig to the peninsula landing space. If I were to start the tall cabinet close to the entrance to the kitchen from the dining room -- about 10" away from the entrance, with the light switch that is there on the open space -- then the following sequences place the midpoint of both the MW and Frig within 48" of the peninsula counter edge:

    Left to Right:

    Pantry - MW Tall Cabinet - Refrigerator

    Pantry - Refrigerator - MW Tall Cabinet

    The centerpoint of item in the middle is right around 48" or a hair less off the peninsula (measuring roughly the diagonal path one would take toward the counter). The item furtherest right is more directly aligned.

    Another option: One of the cabinet companies I'm looking at (Schuler) has a MW tall cabinet with a pull-out landing space. Perhaps with an option like this --


    Alluring Appeal · More Info


    the MW tall cabinet could go anywhere on the run, since the cabinet itself would have a landing space for setting down a casserole or a hot coffee momentarily while transferring it from the MW to the dining table. If it goes near the dining table and further off from the peninsula, then the pantry storage moves closer to the workzones.

    The third option is to delete the microwave and drawer storage from the run, and move the MW and to the cabinets or counter left of the dishwasher, with the glassware.

    Herbflavor, you raise a good point that didn't fully dawn on me about the shortened peninsula maybe being higher demand than I'm imaging. I'll have to think through how much of a problem at is - and if the 69/70" of counter left of the sink provides a good place for a second person to make a sandwich, etc., or if that space is too far from the tall cabinets.

    Dan1888 - unfortunately there's not a lot of space to recess things into the wall. Where the refrigerator would go, there's the living room area on the other side and the wall isn't that deep. So I can't get 12" but I might get 1-3" out of it? Which means if the wall cooperates, I might be able to get a 29/30" deep refrigerator back a bit further out of the aisle. Which would be good.

    Deleting the peninsula and running the cabinets toward the fireplace is possible -- if the window over there is made less tall to allow it. I'd have to think more about that. The peninsula is kinda handy for visually dividing the space and for kids to use - ours use it intensely. And our neighborhood is generally occupied by families do to having the 3-4 bedrooms per house and being a fast walk to elementary and high schools.

  • herbflavor
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I cant recall so the question arises..have you spec'd out lengthening the peninsula by some inches ..leave a 39-42 inch walkway and place sink on peninsula. Keep fridge on the window longer wall but skooch away from door to music space.....

    Transitional White Kitchen Design Blue Bell, PA · More Info


    Place a drawer microwave once sink is removed from that wall. You can make a nice deep 18 in overhang and with a bit more to it [ extra 8- 10 inches or so] use the end for laying out food for dining.....you'd have nothing on 3rd wall. Getting all the working parts of the kitchen into the U shape would be a plus......If you need a cabinet for extra storage wont there be a spot in the room w fireplace? a corner cabinet? for storing lesser used items?? seems that is done quite often. I'm sure you know about narrow pullouts by now..... pantry storage between fridge and music room wall or split the piece 1/3.... 2/3 ...

    Pine Street · More Info


  • sheloveslayouts
    last month

    @Danielle Gottwig If you decide to get new cabs will you do ikea again?

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    24 days ago
    last modified: 22 days ago

    Herbflavor, that's an interesting idea that I'll keep in mind. It might be difficult for me to do some aspects of it. The peninsula counter can't get some inches deeper than 36" without running across and to the midpoint of a tall window that sits between the kitchen and peninsula on the fireplace/range wall. The other barrier is that plumbing currently runs along the sink wall only and it might be a project to get it into the middle of the room - my house is on a slab foundation.

    The biggest "hard choice" for me will be deciding if I want to cut back the length of my current peninsula significantly in order to open that extra wall (where my open shelves are now) to appliance(s) -- or if I want to keep all/most of its current length even if that means I can't be so extreme/creative with reconfiguring and even if it means that I'll lose glass storage + counter space left of the sink to the goal of moving the refrigerator out of the kitchen corner.

    Now that I've been shown its possible to use that wall as something other than shelf or pantry storage alone, that idea is really alluring because it allows me to play around with the layout more. But I do love my current, long peninsula (I'm supposed to work at the water source, but I often jump across the peninsula since its such a nice long area; I have to remind myself frequently that 72" is still big, and that if I move refrigerator I potentially could have ~69 of space left of the sink.) And currently the peninsula extends deeper into the room than the dining room table does, which is perhaps visually pleasing. If I keep open shelves or convert my open shelves to shallow closed pantry storage at 15" or less, I can trim the peninsula minimally (about 10-12") and keep it lined up with the dining table. If I need 27-31" depth on the extra wall for a refrigerator (depending on the refrigerator and whether I can gain an inch or two inside the wall for it), then the dining table is going to be about 6" deeper (depending a bit on placement) in the room space than the peninsula will be. (Since I can't visualize this well, I remain uncertain about it and go back and forth on whether its a problem. I think it's OK, but it does feel like a loss of sorts.)

    On auxiliary storage: Yes, if we keep the dining table in front of the fireplace, I have a corner between the fireplace and a window of about 46" square and then another corner between that same window and the hallway of 62 x70. So for items I don't need within reach of the workzones (less used platters, etc), there's significant real estate for a buffet or builtins over there. At the moment I have no clear idea of what will look good - only that I probably want some furniture and art.

    Sheloveslayouts, I started with Ikea as my go-to solution--but I would benefit a lot from being able to order 27" upper cabinets vs just 30" or 20". (My clearance under my soffits is 83" - pretty low.) So at this point I'm out in the wilds learning what normal cabinet companies (Schuler, Kraftmaid, etc) offer for cabinets.

  • Tina
    24 days ago

    Following

  • Danielle Gottwig
    Original Author
    21 days ago
    last modified: 21 days ago

    I'm shamelessly bumping this because I'm curious what you all think about the order of the tall cabinets in my latest layout.

    Let's say (for the sake of my current experiment) that I wanted to keep a microwave tall cabinet in the plan--and keep all the tall cabinets together in block.

    Does it make sense to have the microwave tall cabinet furthest from the kitchen work zones since the way we use a microwave makes it more of an "add on" appliance that is generally for reheating food + making beverages? (The number one function conflict in our current kitchen is when I'm using the range and my husband zips in to heat up tea water or hot cocoa using the OTR microwave--which kind of highlights to me how much those two appliances are in conflict, and usually also performing completely unrelated tasks. In addition, the MW being on the tall cabinet run sorta makes sense in that its related more related functionally to pantries and the refrigerator than it is to any other cabinetry, since that's where milk/tea/hot coca/leftovers all would be.)

    If it does make sense to allow the MW to be somewhat outside the other primary prep/cooking workzone, is it acceptable to view the dining table or a pull out try built into the cabinet as acceptable safe landing spaces for transferring items from the MW to a final destination?

    If it's better to have the microwave tall cabinet closer to the peninsula counter than it would be on the end of the tall cabinet run, then the refrigerator and MW cabinets need be the closest tall cabinets to the entry to the kitchen from the living/music room area. That moves them closest to the kitchen workzones, but that also bumps the pantry to being the furtherest from the workzones. Problem or not really?

    I can always delete the MW tall cabinet or move it -- it would buy me extra pantry space if I did--I'm just toying with options for including it before cutting counter space to move the tall MW cabinet, losing drawer space to an under-counter model MW, or reverting the tried-and-true countertop MW. (One advantage of the countertop variety over a built-in is that its a low commitment choice: I'm not very attached to microwaves, and my casual observation is that they're not especially long-lived appliances.)