"Our "general contractor" will only be partially involved and won't oversee each part of the project."

If you want to serve as your own general contractor then do so.

@verbo Good advice. 50% reserve sounds scary! If we didn't have such an amazing lot we wouldn't even build - we would buy an existing (already built) home because it might be cheaper. The homes in the area we own the property are being built for $700 - $900 per sq. ft. or more, so we're trying to get around that high price tag. Our goal is to do some of the work ourselves, manage the project ourselves and keep tighter control over materials used. I know it's a custom process but I'm thinking there are general lists or references that start with preparing the ground, excavating, pouring foundation, framing, etc. and all the many steps needed to construct a typical home?

@Charles Ross Homes I guess we will serve as our own general contractor, there it's stated, smile. However, we don't know any subcontractors in the area and using a GC that's "partially" involved will give us access to at least a few subs. Otherwise, how would we find the subcontractors to do the work? It's an isolated mountain ski town and we'll be lucky to find quotes from 2 electricians let alone 4 electricians, for example.

Your general contractor isn't adding much value if their role is simply to introduce you to trade contractors. You can drive around to homes under construction and introduce yourself to trade contractors.

@Charles Ross Homes... Excellent idea, thanks.

Verbo - go troll somewhere else. There's no faking or deception here; we're simply trying to build a house for a reasonable amount and asking for "useful" advice.

Have you asked your gc if he has a spreadsheet he uses to organize his jobs? Maybe he will give you a copy?

This was a forum favorite 15 years ago, for selections. A ton has changed since then. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1FkO1FTMuqu4dQIbeyiZ4WT0pz9rwUIMCRUHYSoyEQGM/htmlview?hl=en

Tasks are not part of a universally linear timeline. Each trade has their own order of operations. That clashes with other trades order of operations. And sometimes coincides with the owners desired deadlines. The GC uses their experience to sort through the conflicts, and delays, to keep things moving forward.

Have a couple friends who have done big remodels(to the studs) in HCOLA areas recently. Both with GCs. There were mountains of trouble with work not being done, subs blaming each other for damage, jobsite theft (what do you plan to do there? Do you have insurance for that? Do you know order times for appliances are months if not a year in advance.... and if yours come early, where are you storing them and do you have insurance for that?)--and that was with highly recommended GCs with known work in their HCOLA area. One of them went bankrupt right after my friend's contentious build.

And, similar to your situation, my family is about to embark on building in a very HCOLA area. Prices will be what you are quoting psf. GCs give the best subs repeat business if not virtually continuous employment. Those are going to be top quality subs. What kind of subs are you going to get? Not that "cream of the crop"-type of subs. When you're spending that kind of money, you need to ensure that the subs do their jobs in a timely way, especially if you expect weather issues. You're not going to have the same type of influence that a prominent GC would, in your area.

From my perspective, this current market has got to make things worse than normal for your plan to diy things.

Jeff:

To subs, you're what's called a "onesie". You're only going to build one house. The best subs work for GCs that provide them with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work every year. That volume gives them leverage over those subs; you'll have little.

You're a sub. You get a call from a onesie asking for a bid. You know he's shopping for at least 2 more. You're already short handed and you've got a backlog of moneymaking work from guys you like working with and who pay on time. Are you going to return the onesies call? Unlikely.

Your GC may not "oversee each part of the process", but someone has to and that must be you. You not only need to know what steps to take in what order, but you need to know how to coordinate the trades. And don't think for a minute that the subs you do hire won't know that you don't know what you're doing. I could tell by the look in your eyes.

When a GC miscoordinates, he calls in a favor to the sub. Depending upon the severity, the sub usually eats it. When you miscoordinate, expect a pay-it-up-front change order every time. No leverage.

I read about cops that screw up. The rookies rarely do because they know that they don't know. The veterans don't because they know better. It's the cops with about 10 years on the job that take the most risks. No more rookie fear and not enough veteran experience. That's sounds like you if I may be so bold.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC often discusses the "onesie" thing and it has never been my experience. I have never struggled to find contractors willing to work for a homeowner. Nor does that correspond with anything we understand about labor economics. It does seem reasonable, but it just isn't true.

My father owned a rather large plumbing company and most of his profitable contracts were "onesies." We would regularly take jobs hundreds of miles away, from contractors we had never worked with and were unlikely to work with again. We also regularly took jobs that we knew were going to lose money and those were always from repeat contractors.

It is always easier to get people to work overtime than it is regular time. Call 100 employees who have worked 30 hours in a week for an extra 10 hour shift. Then call 100 employees who have worked 40 hours in a week for an extra 10 hour overtime shift. The acceptance rate for the overtime shift will be many times higher. Likewise, your job will be just as appealing to a contractor if they can see a little more profit in it. If you are not smart enough to convey you are willing to pay a bit extra then you shouldn't be building a house. I mean just say, "I want you to bid on my project because I want quality work and I don't mind paying a bit extra for it." You will not have any trouble getting bids.

Furthermore, the schedule always rules. This is why we often took jobs that lost money (this is formally called relevant costing, marginal costing or short-term profit management). Keeping people working even for a small loss is better than them sitting idle. A crew consisted of a plumber, 1 or 2 helpers, a truck, and significant equipment. Payroll and overhead easily ran $2,500 per week twenty years ago. So as long as we were losing less than $2,500 per week on a job we were making more profit than we would with that crew inactive (in reality inactive meant helping a different crew but that just created an additional hole to fill). To take advantage of that you need to build in some flexibility.

The problem with these things are not that you can't find the crew, it is that much of the savings disappears when you pay more for subs and your subs have more flexibility so your project takes longer.

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I would consider a construction manager or consultant (which sounds like what you had anyway). That is someone who represents repeat business for subs and avoids the above problem altogether, but is only responsible for assisting your management of the build rather than managing the build themselves. The assistance could be handy anyway and the experience that a construction manager brings often pays for itself.

The problem with these things are not that you can't find the crew, it is that much of the savings disappears when you pay more for subs and your subs have more flexibility so your project takes longer.

Bingo! Please reread this paragraph time and again. And realize that you'll be losing money the longer it takes for you to build.

bry911:

Thanks for backing up your argument with examples from 20 years ago. I suggest you peruse this forum for very recent posters who can't even get three bids for entire kitchen remodels. You won't have much trouble finding them.

Even more prolific are posts from homeowners who have started projects and can't get the contractor(s) they've hired to show up and finish. This is because the contractor(s) they've hired have been called to work at more profitable jobs for guys who hire them more regularly and for whom a poor review is a fair tradeoff for pleasing a regular GC customer.

"Furthermore, the schedule always rules."

No, the paycheck always rules. The safety and security of that paycheck always rules. A sub will trash a onesie schedule and sleep like a baby that night as the recent timely examples here demonstrate.

I don't think a plumbing sub is a good example. Homeowners probably would need plumbing services at one point or another. Therefore, plumbers are used to dealing with regular homeowners who may or may not return back.

Joseph Corlette raises a fair point. Market conditions can vary from one location to another as will trade contractor prices and availability. I don't think anyone in my market is competitive bidding any projects. Most remodelers are booked six months in advance. Custom home builders are booked a year in advance. Trade contractors are in high demand.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - My example is not from 20 years ago only the prices were. That is just when we converted to an ERP system.

I usually do one property a year, sometimes build, sometimes heavily remodel. I have no problems getting subs for one property per year and they are typically inner city redevelopment, sometimes we tear down and rebuild, other times we do gut remodels. A single moderate semi-custom build will be many times more profitable for a sub than my build and I have never had a problem getting subs.

No, the paycheck always rules. The safety and security of that paycheck always rules.

You are misunderstanding. I assume you are missing my point rather than how profit works, but who knows. Relevant costing, marginal costing or short-term profit are the decisions a business makes to increase their paycheck. This has been expressed a million different ways, e.g. anything that doesn't make you money, costs you money... idle workers cost money... downtime dollars... etc.

You are big on noting fallacies. You have several fallacies in your comment. For example, "A sub will trash a onesie schedule and sleep like a baby that night." This is a false dichotomy, it is also an argument from incredulity, with a Nirvana fallacy. You create a situation where the sub must choose between doing your job and a contractors. That is unrealistic, in reality the sub is going to try to get your windfall profit and the contractor who represents a steady paycheck. This means that a "onesie" does have to build in some padding to their schedule and so they shouldn't pretend their build is going to have the precision of a Swiss watch, but it is false to pretend that any time a contractor comes around the sub is just going to drop your job and run off. Because... the paycheck rules.

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I am not a big fan of GCing your own job unless you know what you are doing because builders/G.C.'s do create value... but it can be done and pretending that your project is going to fail if you G.C. it is patently false because plenty of people do. There are hundreds of resources dedicated to owner-builders and thousands of people do it every year. It can be, and is, done rather commonly.

@Charles Ross Homes said, "Joseph Corlette raises a fair point. Market conditions can vary from one location to another as will trade contractor prices and availability."

With respect, that was not the point he made. If he had said, make sure that this course of action is viable in your market, then I wouldn't have made any comment. I know it is a viable strategy where I am at, because I do it and since he made a blanket statement, I know it is incorrect.

ETA: The contractor demand in my area is starting to wane. Nationally, housing starts were down 22% in October and are expected to drop another 30% as the pipeline empties. We also have an inverted yield curve. It seems like a pretty good time to start getting your build ready.

" It seems like a pretty good time to start getting your build ready. "

Except for the interest rates...........

"The homes in the area we own the property are being built for $700 - $900 per sq. ft. or more, so we're trying to get around that high price tag."

That happens in parts of California that are a combination of remote & higher end, remote & mass fire areas, remote & snow season.

Use your part time GC to develop a local practices process list. It will vary significantly in site prep from region to region. Make your selections decisions, price, order. Bid out the trades. Don't be surprised in HCOL areas that trades are traveling 1.5-2+ hours from lower cost of living areas, charging significantly more than their local rates to work in your area due to travel & lodging costs & time on the road. That is typical.

There is more availability from trades who do a lot of tract work, lead times are getting shorter in custom work.

"Use your part time GC to develop a local practices process list. It will vary significantly in site prep from region to region."

My staff architect and I served for a number of year as Parade of Homes judges in markets just outside our own. We were surprised at the variation in local practices and quality standards. Developing the local practices list will be particularly valuable if contractors are commuting from other markets.

You know, I have never had a house built that didn't have an expensive mistake (I guess it depends on your definition) despite experienced GCs.

The question is whether that expensive mistake + higher sub cost + time spent is less than or more than a GC would cost.

I think the answer varies on a lot of things. Certainly, GCs may still be bidding high partly because of the unknown and the recent history of headaches and price increases. I suspect the hgher interest rates will slam down the building to a crawl and it is probably a time where you could save money compared to a GC. But you could get burned too....

The lot is simply amazing and we want to live there, period. So, if we're going to get this house built we'll have to try something different, a few minor mistakes (?) and minor delays notwithstanding. If we make one $200K mistake we'll still be saving a lot, given that we've been quoted by one GC for this build at $500K exactly. I'm not suggesting in any way that GC's or builders are exploitive, just that this is this present market in this place and time. We'll lean heavily on our psuedo GC and we already have connections to excavators, framers, plumbers, electricians and all of these are recent and new contacts. We are moving forward with permitting, damn the torpedoes!

@bry911 You have some great ideas and it's true that housing construction is slowing down. By the time spring comes and the ground thaws perhaps there'll be subcontractors more interested in building than they have been for the last few years? I see that lumber prices (as a commodity) have plunged from a high of 1544 LBS in 2021 to 432 LBS on 11/29/22.

@Charles Ross Homes Absolutely, there will be dozens and dozens of interactions and thousands of details, you are correct. I have no illusions there - however, 5 years ago we had a custom house built (5500 sq ft) and I visited nearly every day and took pictures and asked questions. I have a ton to learn but am not a babe in the woods.

@Mrs. S Might be hard to build now, for sure; it's a strange time. Good point about theft. It's a gated community and one of subs already noted that there's been no theft from his nearby site. But yes, good idea to get insurance. We have a place to store appliances and even building supplies and plan to order many things starting soon such as windows, doors and yes-appliances.

$500k builder quote? Should be a fairly simple build but I don't get what you mean about the $200k mistake comment.

Many misunderstand lumber futures thinking there is a linear relationship from that wholesale unprocessed bulk full rail car spot price cost to onsite lumber costs. Many of the lumber products we use (plywood, OSB, laminated beams, I joists, trusses) are composites that lumber is just a raw material.

My lumber costs on a current build is just under $30 psf living space vs $40 a year back at the peak. This new "low" is likely baked in due to increased stumpage fees set by Canada. Mills only produce when they can sell above cost.

Much of the material in our market is sourced from Canada. It's subject to a 8.6% tariff.

@Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor By $500K I mean that's one of the GC quotes* for the house (3500 sq ft) and yes -it is simple. By $200K mistake I mean if we make a major mistake and it costs $200K and we have zero cost for our GC fee (because it's us) then we're still ahead if the GC would've cost $500K. E.g. if we didn't know that the foundation must be 4 ft deep and dug it 3 ft deep and had to tear out foundation, dig deeper and pour new spread footer, it might cost $200K and that's an example of a $200K mistake.

*Once again, no animus towards GC's or builders or anyone - this is just the current state of the market in this particular region of the USA.

Yes, of course commodity prices don't trickle down immediately to the lumber yards - perhaps not at all? But maybe we'll see a steady slow down or ceasation of price increases, we can hope?

As many of you already know, I’m on my 2nd GC on a new construction build in Tampa, FL. The construction budget for our 3,200 single story home started out at around $800k and now, with overages is close to $1,400k. We are probably getting CO on the project in January, 2023… 36 months after we broke ground in early 2020.

Our 2nd GC, while significantly better than our 1st GC, still has a major flaw. They do a good job of managing the contractual side of the subcontractors but they do not supervise work while it is being done on site. That responsibility has fallen on me an my wife. Our 2nd GC has a weekly management fee on top of the cost plus nature of the contract so its very painful that my wife and I have had to done so much on-site supervision.

Lesson learned at least in Florida is that a high quality job on a custom home requires constant supervision of subcontractors while they are on-site. It is worth paying more to ensure that constant supervision is part of the equation for the build. Further, trust but verify. For example, I made the mistake of not verifying the detailed design of my HVAC design that was designed by an expert HVAC designer. I trusted the supposed “high quality” residential and commercial HVAC subcontractor to properly implement the HVAC design I paid for separately from an HVAC design expert. In hindsight, they’ve undersigned some of the supply and return ducting and now I’m forced to work around some of the inadequacies of the system as a result. The same problems can be pointed out on a number of the other trades.

@Sam Biller Great advice, supervising closely as the house is built. As noted above about 5 years ago we had a house built and observed other houses being constructed nearby. While our residence turned out ok it would've been even better if there was an onsite construction manager present almost daily like some of the other new house builds had. For example, I remember walking into our new kitchen with my wife and admiring the expensive and huge white quartz counters but noting they weren't covered/protected at all. Just then a tradesmen enters the kitchen and drops a metal hammer none too gently on the unprotected counter; this is the kind of thing an onsite manager would have seen to - that the counter was covered in kraft paper at least. It's more expensive to dedicate someone to be present almost constantly but I agree the results are better. I will happily fill such a role and watch for quality on a daily basis.

@Jeff Smith,

Make sure your trades are aware of your quality expectations (incorporating a written quality standard in each contract is important) and the fact that you'll be on site frequently as an observer and quality control manager during the build. Any of those are likely to make the pool of willing trade contractors a smaller one, but should help reduce "friction" during the project.

@Charles Ross Homes Excellent idea to have a quality contract in place. I'll be very clear that I'm one of the project managers and will be around all the time.

@DD I don't work so will consider this another hobby. This is truly a simple build and shouldn't take more than 14 months. Just a basic house, not an ego-boosting mansion. It will have extensive decks, though to take in the mountain & forest views, which will make all the effort worth it!

"I'll be very clear that I'm one of the project managers..." Multiple project managers is a recipe for problems. Pick one. If it's you, that's fine, but you need a single point of command and control.

Here's a few list items you haven't asked for:

STRUCTURAL QC - Had a trade contractor friend who moved to a part of TX where permits aren't required but there are big winds & lots of big entry structures that act like sails. Here's what we discussed:

1. Have a geotechnical (soils) engineer test compaction during cut/fill, inspect footings & steel for any retaining walls as well as foundation.
2. Have plans engineered locally to local wind, soils & seismic loads.
3. Have the structural engineer of record inspect the home at frame, prior to covering (also called "sheet & shear" inspection). Its best to clear this list & get a letter before building inspector comes.
4. Consider having your architect walk through a few times.

Special inspectors look more carefully than most others with a specific level of knowledge compared to both a GC or building inspectors who are both generalists plus a single trade skill. Ask @Sam Biller but this is also typical of our more complex custom projects & even a few national tract builders use special inspectors for quality/liability. Sometimes the building department will require anyway but can make up for your lack of knowledge combined with lack of vetted/trusted trade contractors. Building inspectors are more concerned with fire/life safety and are too busy to do the GCs QC job and are not liable if they miss something.

TRADES/SUPPLIERS

My preference is to buy windows via the trade contractor installing. Same w materials for roofing, stucco lath & plaster, waterproof decks. Most of the critical waterproofing layers in these trades are not accessible to view by inspectors so its important you have skilled & managed labor.

Start visiting job sites, calling suppliers for recommended trade contractors. That's a start. Check licenses, call references, view work as much as possible. Have signed agreements & insurance certs in hand before they're onsite. Acting as your own GC, you may be considered the employer of record responsible for workers comp claims unless you have these. This will help prevent having to enforce a contract after you're not satisfied. "Low bids" should not be your primary qualifier. Regarding suppliers - if you want cheap, go where the flippers go. If you want quality, don't.

FUNDING - set aside $100-200K outside of lender control to pay deposits & keep trade contractors paid timely vs slow lender draws. If you're all cash disregard. Consider having your general liability policies beyond the value of the finished property.

SELECTIONS - make your decisions prior to breaking ground if possible. There will be plenty of other things demanding your time. The supply chain is still a challenge.

Last - a broom is a great way to get to know your project.

@Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor Great advice. We already have a local (to the high mountains) architect and structural engineer. We already had a soils test but that's a good idea to bring geotech. back in during cut/fill. Our last house we had the occasional architect & engineer walk-through and will repeat that step. Will follow through with your other recommendations; this is sound advice. Good point about insurance requirement; we'll also check licenses if that particular trade needs a local license. I do own a broom.