To properly take tile to the ceiling will mean a removal of the side cabinet crown. Otherwise? How? See below

I would tile only to bottom of cabinet, out to edge of counter top. Set first shelf atop that.......or do it correctly and take the crown off on that trim side, first. Replace.

How many shelves? Two. Line them up with the bottom two shelves in the adjacent cabinet.

Because you're planning to tile that space up to the ceiling, keep the shelves simple. Braces or corbels will detract from the tile.

If you think your tile is too bland to add sufficient interest above the shelves, I'd stop the tile underneath the higher shelf and hang artwork on the wall.

A lot of opinions have been expressed here, all with valid points. I hope you come back with a picture of how your project turns out :-)

I think more understanding of the full space is needed. You have the glass doored display on the other wall, that in itself may make more shelves too busy. What is the rest of the open area outside of the kitchen like?

Heres the entire kitchen.

wall was taken doen between kirchen and DR. so DR/table is now incorporated as one big room

I'd say it's lovely. Crisply clean and well done.

Seeing the whole of the kitchen, helps to see the best solution for the open area, shelves etc.

I would do one of two things

Best? Go back and add a glass door cabinet. Tile as you planned beneath it. You clearly invested time, money. Go the very last mile, always the hardest mile, but rewarding. Only adds to the good looks in place.

Second Best ? Quartz /no bracket float shelves and only two. Remnant from quartz, ask the fabricator to create them.

(I do Hope that isn't a raised transition strip of flooring( trip hazard ) between island and dining )

can you get a light wood floating shelf...a bit thick.. the floor has that nice tone...bring it into the shelf. Two is enough and i'd extend them a bit more now that i see how much wall cabinetry you have....thicker shelves in wood and a bit longer otherwise / wont be noticed. You dont need the storage now that the volume of cabinetry is noted so this is just for looks I'd say..a little bonus spot. Lucky you.

I agree with Jan’s ideas, and I’ll try not to be sarcastic.

Your kitchen, as-is, is beautiful. Bright and sleek and clean. If you need additional storage, continue the bright-sleek-clean with matching cabinets.

Open shelving tends to be clutter-ish with odds and ends stacked there because it’s easy and soon you have a jumble of stuff. And kitchen shelves are dusty and greasy and dirty.

If you MUST have shelving (it seems you have made up your mind to do it), don’t use corbels like those pictured. Those are way too clunky for your sleek-clean kitchen.

Oh yes, NOW I remember your kitchen! Isn’t this the second time this happened? Haha!

The white paint turned out really great and the quartzite is gorgeous!!!

Yes, now seeing all the kitchen, the cottage-y style shelves are a definite no for your more sleek kitchen. I just wanted to show that style to you since you mentioned the corbels.

I think you definitely should post a dining room photo.

Since it is all one big room, you want to take into consideration that space as well, so it all ties together nicely.

I remember your dining table set and matching hutch is a dark expresso wood. It is a very formal style with a chrome chandelier. And didn’t you have lots of beautiful crystal pieces?

Jan’s matching quartzite shelf idea would be more formal imo, so that would be a great look. Do you have any leftover pieces from the countertop install? Or maybe the fabricator has a remnant from that quartzite?

If that won’t be possible, here are a couple other ideas that might bring some of the expresso colored wood dining room over to the white kitchen side.

I think if the legs on the island stools were in the dark wood as the shelves, it might marry it all together nicely.

Or this metal shelf looks kind of fancy, and ties in the chandelier’s bling. I think you said the door hardware and faucet was going to be satin nickel right?

Of course white shelves the same color as the cabinets would be a safe choice as well.

I am sure whatever you decide, it will look amazing!

Thank uou eberuone for all these hreat siggestions and ideas it is helpful!

ill try to answer everything here for those that asked quesrions .

im mixing metlas chrome/ brushed nickel(SS)

my faucet and pendamt rod finishes will be chrome. inhave a chrome dining room chamdelier, now visible, and inlole the idea of mixong metals. ill have chrome chandelier over Dining table, chrome rod pendamts, chrrome faucet, stainless appliances, and brushed nickel hardware.

the floor was parched; thet rooms were different heights, and a reducer has ro be added, not installed yet, , but will be when the floors are refinished last

my electrician came over today as he had a suggestion . he said an option that may look is instead of taking the tile all the waynio entire wall space, he said tile the backsplash as usual, then take the tile up to the ceiling, but not to the edge of the cabient and to the side of the ceiling beam. he sighesterd leaving a few inches on each side and have the tile framing just the sheves. paint aroind the tole the color of thendining room, that way the color flows into the kitchen; as the only area of wall i have now in the kirchen is the small framing around the doorway to enter it . he said to then and add a wall sconce above shelves to match the pendants. he said he just worked a job where this was done, but it was a stove hood. thoughts on his siggesrion? i didnt think it was bad, as it would give me the abilitly to bring in DR paint color, i and wouldnt have ro worry about any potential crown molding issueof fetting the tile to look clean/ near neat- not sloppy cuts trying to fit it around it

i have plenty of cabinetry, so hes, the shelves would be a little bonus space; can be purely decorative, not a major storage area. i tried to draw what he was explaing. the blue is the tile, the purple dot would be the sconce .

pocs of pendants im considering— they happen to make marching sconces too .

im not sure what backspash im doing , but inhave a few im considering .

Heres DR pic again rebunky that is all staying as is.

This? I'd say no.

Sometimes we get stuck on something that is just akin to sticking a square peg in a round hole. A bit of design overthink which can result in something looking forced versus well designed.

Light up a continuing glass door cabinet, put art and a picture light, sleek, above. But not that.

I'd get all the hardware on, lights up, and live with the result a bit. Delay any decision. The space will still be there along with the sparkle you're adding . This isn't really about " not needing storage". It's about the whole of the space.

If you must have a something there? For less than 200 in chrome? Here you go. Perhaps a wise investment before a more permanent solution

https://www.potterybarn.com/products/mercer-triple-glass-shelf/?catalogId=84&sku=1042130&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Bath%20%3E%20Bath%20Hardware&region_id=669950&cm_ite=1042130_12950060138&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsoycBhC6ARIsAPPbeLu1GGK5pGX8Eyu1vVAZ6C4-xJuv5-FN8yb23_2Tzmh-g0Fr2FKTxxIaAvtdEALw_wcB

Im not stuck on this; im trying to consider all options and gather siggestions so it is nicely drsigned.

thank you, but i really dont like the idea of a bathroim shelf in my kitchen . ill pass on that one and keep the other suggestions that were mentined in consideraton .

Walking into this space now And assuming no cabinet could be added I would see it as a timeless traditional kitchen. The first thing I would do is to check and see if I could carry the quartz up as a back splash and I would do a quartz shelf . Only one. Then I would dress the top in a traditional manner. The cabinet opposite this I would wallpaper the interior of the glass doors in blue and then carry that color over to dress the open shelf. Ginger Jars, books and art hanging above. Then I would dress the window with a classic Roman shade done in a blue fabric as well.

Walking into this space now And assuming no cabinet could be added I would see it as a timeless traditional kitchen. The first thing I would do is to check and see if I could carry the quartz up as a back splash and I would do a quartz shelf . Only one. Then I would dress the top in a traditional manner. The cabinet opposite this I would wallpaper the interior of the glass doors in blue and then carry that color over to dress the open shelf. Ginger Jars, books and art hanging above. Then I would dress the window with a classic Roman shade done in a blue fabric as well. Here is a mock up of the idea

Apologies this site is giving me total angst when posting. To continue if you are unable to do the quartz at this point some things to consider when taking the tile backsplash up to the ceiling. The crown and end panel on the cabinet will likely need to be removed. There are some tilers out there who could skillfully make the cuts needed to successfully navigate those lines but they are very few and very far between. You don't want the tile work to be sloppy there because it is in an area that is going to be noticable. It is also hard to tell by the photo but it looks like due to the beam in able to get a clean line and good visual you will want to carry the tile straight down from the inside (kitchen side) of that beam which would place your tile edge a few inches from the edge of the counter. This could be a potential deal breaker because it will look off. Again this is how the photo makes it appear so it may be a non issue but worth mentioning. I would still dress the area the same if a wooden shelf is going to be done. I would opt for it to be white but I would dress it up. Some possible ideas which would all be done in the metal that coordinates with your kitchen, I think you said nickel?

Add a shelf rail

Add a band around perimeter of shelf

I know this is on a hood but the same idea would be applied around a shelf

add fluting to the shelf front

Add a pole detail on the front or under

IDK whats going on. All should have photos under the ideas. On my lap top no photos show but on the app on my phone photos show. I give up!

At first glance, It is very transitional. The choice of chrome hardware, lighting as the pendants and even the dining area beyond? Less so!

I think the op is going for the formality within the transitional. A wee nod to the glam - perhaps

Fabricated quartz floating shelves are very suited, the addition of cabinet is.

And as noted earlier? The best decision may come, when all the remaining effects are present in the space.

If still not wanting to mess with crown still not wanting cabinet? Fine!

At that point the quartz float may start to have major appeal. Time can be a real and true ally.

.

Thank you design interior south. i agree about the blue decor. thsr is exactlly what i was olanning on doing with the blue/ windows etc

you have an excellent eye. the things you pointed out about the crown molding and beam are spot on! you sre correct !

i had a thought this morning . to avoid sloppy cuts around exisring crown moldong, what about extening the crwon molong across the blank wall.? i honestly think regardless of what i do woth this blank wall, the crown molding shoukd be extended onto the blank wall and across the beam. i feel like the room needs it to tie together as a finished look.

if i brought ille up to the ceiling , there would then be a straight flat edge to tile against, as opposed to the ridges of the side that are there now. The only cut or transirion would be around the beam, which is minimal and straight

as you noted, the countertop extends a few inches under the beam. the backspalsh has ro come to the end of the coutnertop no matter what, so i thought about if tile was brought up to ceiling, adding a trim edge to it, to frame it off the trim edge could be ceramic like the tile. ( pencii edge) . orher idea was the wainscosring on the DR wall had to be patched. i thoight about using the white wood trim along the edge, like a plain thin wood molding of the tile of the tile as an edge. i taped it out and mocked it up.

I saw nothing wrong with Jan's comments to you. She was reflecting on what would work best in your space and was never insulting. You might consider her well meaning advice with her years of experience. Personally if I were doing my house, she would be at the top of my list to listen to. It doesn't mean you have to do exactly what she says, but hopefully her ideas give you a jumping off point to consider better ideas versus the group hive ideas.

If it were me, I'd tile just up to the bottom of the cabinets and instead too trendy shelving, hang a fabulous piece of art or sculpture.

and definitely NOT what your electrician suggested. Sorry but that's just poor design.

Or do the shelf with the artwork above like Design Interior suggested. The first photo.

Thanks cpartist

i agree and am im leaning towards tile all the way up or stopping under the cabinet.

he was just making a suggestion and offering ideas. it didnt hurt to ask about it . i appreciate him doing so, but we can move on from the idea.

I think the combo of the beam, the counter extension, the moulding is going to make the possibility of tile all the way up look "off" . wrapping a wee bit of tile under that beam to bring it down to the counter will look wrong. On the cabinet end panel is the tile going to go flush against it or is there a small gap on the back of that panel the tile is going to slide behind? Sorry if all these points have been covered already , I have not read the comments. As far as finishing off the area with crown around it, yes it will look fine and more finished but it has no bearing on the tile to the ceiling where the cabinet end paneling and that beam are involved. Please no wood trim with the tile. A traditional pencil tile ir deoenbding on your tile type taking a piece of it vertically. Which leads me to the next question......has the backsplash been chosen?

Because there are so many considerations, like the crown and beam, I think this is not a good place to tile or put shelves. If it were my house, I would keep it simple and follow Cpartist’s suggestion to put art there .

No worries design interior south.

there is a very small gap, which i suppose has always been there , as we did not remove the cabinets, jist refinished them

the gap isnt big enough for a tile to fully slide behind, but thengap would get covered if tile is placed there.

indidnt finalize my backspalsh choice. i jist have samples here i am considering and still looking for ideas . here is s pic of a sample tile i have here to show you how it sits addjacent to the cabinet.

thans for answer about trim. ill stick with tile pencil trim if i go the route of needing

Similar to what Design Interior and cpartist suggested. Ignore the paneling as I don't know how to take it out - leave it as drywall

Thank you RTHawk. lol lol- ignored the paneling. i understand what you were trying to show me. thank you.

i was looking at a site design interior south recommended and i came across this pic. seems a similar wall set up issue as mine- has a ceiling beam, crown molding. im not doing a full slab backsplash, , im doing a tile backsplash, and i have an adjacent cabinet, this does not, but i noticed how they took it 3/4 of the way up., and left drywall at top. perhaps for the same issues i have with the beam, or maybe just sryle preferance, but nonetheless, similar wall set up. to what im trying to accomplish

verbo, the counters were extended and it is not a second dishwasher. what is so weird about extendiing countertops and base cabinets? there is nothing wrong worh doing ao snd it was much needed space that we needed and are happy with now, as opposed to dead useless space with nothing there but our dogs food bin. that was more dysfunctional in our opinion and total waste of space

verbo- You”re in depth explanation of a DW isnt needed. if you read my post i told you , that is NOT a DW. I have a DW properly installed and functioning by my sink for the past 20 years. The newest one has been there for 3 hears all functioning and good. nonhazards, no legal codes broken

that new appliance is a beverage/ wine fridge.

i was looking at a site design interior south recommended and i came across this pic. seems a similar wall set up issue as mine- has a ceiling beam, crown molding. im not doing a full slab backsplash, , im doing a tile backsplash, and i have an adjacent cabinet, this does not, but i noticed how they took it 3/4 of the way up.,

Sorry but the main difference is as you noted, you have a cabinet next to where you want to put shelves. When done right, shelves in a kitchen look great. I'm not sure that they'll look great in your kitchen.

And honestly, that version you show where the stone goes higher than the second shelf looks off to me.

the gap isnt big enough for a tile to fully slide behind, but thengap would get covered if tile is placed there.

And there's your other problem It will cover part of your cabinet so your two sides will not be even anymore. It will look off with the tile butting up against the cabinet.

Thanks cpartist . good points

nit following what you mean though about tiwo sides not being even. not follwing.

gtdj519-

I don't know how long you have been on Houzz.

You don't need to tell me either.

I don't understand the phenomenon of asking people for advice, then "dissing" them when you perceive an insult or sarcasm.

Please note I say "you perceive."

Do you really think people spend time and energy posting helpful advice on Houzz because they intend to be sarcastic or rude?

What about your remark to a Houzzer that she is routinely demeaning?

What is that, chopped liver?

Surely you have heard that absolutes such a "You always " or "You never" (and "constantly" and "consistently" are just other ways of saying that) are rarely true, they are hyperbolic and incendiary and can escalate a conflict.

Jan Moyer is not only extremely talented and helpful, she is generous and gracious enough to spend time on your Design Dilemna but continue to do so despite your outright insults to her.

You are darned fortunate she is contributing to your thread.

Ditto for Verbo.

You had not said in your original post that this was a wine fridge and not a dishwasher.

as most wine fridges and beverage fridges have glass fronts, anyone would assume it was not a wine/beverage fridge.

You had not said in your original post that this was a wine fridge and not a dishwasher.

as most wine fridges and beverage fridges have glass fronts, anyone would assume it was not a wine/beverage fridge.

The OP didn't ask a question about the wine fridge. Why in the world would the OP need to present information that is completely irrelevant to the question asked? Verbo, who was looking for something to castigate the OP for (which is Verbo's S.O.P.), made an assumption that was incorrect and got called on it.

Loobab..

i am not new to houzz. ive been s home owner for 20 years, and have been on here for at least 10. i’ve communicated with many people over the years. within that time, i dont just ” diss” people because I feel what they have responded is insulting, ; but I will male menrion of rude or sarcasric remarks , because its simply inappropriate and uncaled for. there are a few members on here, that jump st the chance to be demeaning, sarcasric and yes rude. I myself have had rude responses and i have read MANY responses ro others that make me jusr shake my head . and its most often repeat offenders. I often wonder what the heck happened to them in their life to make them so harsh. As you stated, people take the time to respond, and since they do, is just to be critical and down putting? If someone in any professional adressed me or spoke to me in person , the way some posters write their responses, I simply would stop doing business with them. Ive had plenty of members , both pro and un- pro give advice and opinions to me that wasnt in line with whatever project or idea I had. Not a single one of them just told me what they thought I wanted to hear; they gave me their honest opinion along with a kind and respectful way of doing so.

I didn't see anything rude, sarcastic or demeaning in either Jan Moyer's comment or Verbo's either.

@bry911-

Yes, I know the OP didn't ask a question about a wine fridge.

For the second time, gtdj519 did not mention in her original post that the appliance was a wine/beverage refrigerator.

The OP asked about shelves over an appliance that looked like a dish washer that appeared to be far from a sink so Verbo explained that a dishwasher needed to be close to a sink and why, an explanation I found to be interesting and edifying.

That appliance looked to me like a dishwasher as well.

Verbo was not looking for something about which to castigate the OP.

There is not one word of insult in Verbo's comment.

Verbo is the person I'd ask first for advice here.

Are you looking for something about which to castigate Verbo?

Especially as you wrote, "Verbo, who was looking for something to castigate the OP for (which is Verbo's S.O.P.)

This a gratuitous "you always" insult analogous to gtdj519's about Jan Moyer.

Folks, If your holiday shopping is making you tense, stay home and shop online.

And give a few thoughts to motes and planks.

Below, op's mock up for a concept:

Text with the mock up:

"to avoid sloppy cuts around existing crown molding, what about extending the crown molding across the blank wall.? I honestly think regardless of what I do with this blank wall, the crown molding should be extended onto the blank wall and across the beam." ( typo's adjusted for clarity)

Re reading the entire thread, the reasoning behind the shelf concept to begin, was to avoid disturbing crown on the existing cabinetry. As here:

"we chose to refinish the cabinets instead of replace as we didn't want to disrupt the existing crown molding".

But.

To do as the OP's concept? Means to completely disturb that molding on the cabinet. To take it across the beam? The beam is also shallower than molding depth. That's another issue.

Bottom line is just one. Virtually all design decisions have a consequence. Get something, give something else up.

The point to over 60 comments is to find the way that best suits that original "don't disturb molding" issue, for the OP.

This has been done, via number of shelves ( largely personal preference), material of those, and accompanying visuals, sketches, with different materials and numbers. Adding the cabinet has come up several times.

Midway through, the op added requested photos, allowing all a fuller understanding of the entire open space, kitchen and dining.

Do I have a point? It is this:

Experienced renovators, pro's certainly, will dig past the obvious question asked. To annoy? No. This is because nothing in design lives outside a fuller context. Almost no image, no matter how pretty, is exactly the situation any op has to deal with.

Beyond that, it's the internet. Some suggestions will work. Some less so, or not at all. Some will appeal, some not. Some will work very well with the whole of the space, some not as well. Much is purely opinion, as this site is rarely the land of definitive yes/no, this/that answers just as design is not that. Veer..........

Last truth? Virtually nobody takes the time to reply, dig for an image, draw a sketch, draw more information from a poster asking anything......to be anything other than helpful.

It may be helpful to remember that.

Last? I've learned more from "mean" teachers, meanie style and demanding task master bosses in past careers, than ever gleaned from someone sweet as honey pie and ( often ) barely doing their own job. More yet from skilled tradespeople with irritating traits and incredible talent. With that? I'm out: )

Last laugh on me: I too thought it was a dishwasher at a glance. Mea Culpa!!!!!

Loobab,

yes. yes indeed i told verbo it was not a DW. i answered him directly after he asked why on earth my countertops extend and how its beyond weird and dysfunctional to have a second DW.

see below:

“verbo, the counters were extended and it is not a second dishwasher. what is so weird about extendiing countertops and base cabinets? “

my answer of it not being a DW was then responded to by him with the explanation about DW.

i responded to him a second time its not a DW, pointing out i already told him prior, its not a DW see below

“verbo- You”re in depth explanation of a DW isnt needed. if you read my post i told you , that is NOT a DW. I have a DW properly installed and functioning by my sink for the past 20 years. The newest one has been there for 3 hears all functioning and good. nonhazards, no legal codes broken

that new appliance is a beverage/ wine fridge.”

Kindly refrain from escalating conflict.. its not appreciated and your facts arent correct . thank you

Thank you Jan. I appreciste your time given

@loobab said,
The OP asked about shelves over an appliance that looked like a dish washer that appeared to be far from a sink so Verbo explained that a dishwasher needed to be close to a sink and why, an explanation I found to be interesting and edifying.

First, see above where the OP noted it was explained to Verbo. Second, and the real problem, Verbo's explanation (the one that you found interesting and edifying) is fabricated. Dishwashers can be directly plumbed, they don't need to be close to a sink even though they often are. He notes that there is not enough thickness in the wall for a standpipe, but a dishwasher standpipe is only 1.5" PVC, there is plenty of room in most walls for a standpipe.

There is also no sanitation reason for a dishwasher next to a sink, moreover, there is no residential health code. He completely fabricated a set of regulations. The distance between the dishwasher and the sink is no more unsanitary than the distance between the cooking area and the eating area. It is just food, food that is left on the plate after dinner is no more unsanitary than it was 10 minutes before when you were carrying it to the table. Not only is this not a requirement in the fabricated residential health code, it is not mentioned in the USDA food code (from which state and local health codes are created).

As for the rest, I didn't insult anyone, that is not what castigate means, I simply noted a problem in your defense of someone who often flames people. As to my opinion on that poster, it is well known and I will support that opinion by saying, on most sites people using multiple identities to instigate is a ban.

@loobab wow, that is some serious love for a "pro" hiding behind a fake name whose previous account mysteriously disappeared, but recently returned and updated their fake profile picture, fake phone number, and fake professional specialty category...twice.

nit following what you mean though about tiwo sides not being even. not follwing.

Your side panel has a shaker style edge around it which I'm guessing is 2" wide? By butting the tile up against it, it will mean on the wall side the 2" edge will now be approximately 1/4" less. If the side panel were flat, it wouldn't be noticeable, but with the shaker detailing it will be.

Cpartist- thank you gorcha. i understnad what you mean now. yes, it would be 1/4 or maybe even less; whatever the thickness less covered along the edge of the shaker trim. It wasnt somerhing thar stuck lit to me as being an issue, as there is rhar tiny gap that needs to be adressed anyway. but, if the tile isnt a good idea, then im sure chailk would be an easy fix as a filler for the gap.

The original post didn't mention anything about the wine fridge.

Our comments here on Houzz don't have time stamps on them, only the hour.

It might be possible that Verbo's comment detailing the reasoning why one should put a DW close to the sink was cross-posted with gtdj519's comment that it was not a DW.

That sort of thing happens to me a lot here, especially because I type as slow as molasses.

I want to respond to a comment, and by the time I am finished typing, three other people have posted in the interim, and then it seems like my comment is directed to the wrong person, or no one at all, or I have missed further clarification, and my comment is now irrelevant or worse.

Maybe Verbo was typing away while gtdj519 put up her/his comment and Verbo didn't see it.

Really, we do write to each other here, it had to be an honest mistake.

Murphy's law really does operate, and it is usually the explanation, rather than that someone or the universe is malevolent.

As to the name business, aren't most of us anonymous anyway?

Does it really matter if someone is a make-believe Tom, Dick or Harriette?

Now, if someone was changing their name or avatar here for the purposes of phishing or catfishing or kayfabe, well, that is just not right, but I highly doubt any of that type of chicanery goes on here.

@loobab - Why defend the timing of a post that was intentionally misleading? Even if this actually was a dishwasher, his post would have still been intentionally deceptive. The plumbing code allows for dishwashers drainage into a standpipe and there is plenty of room for a standpipe in almost any wall (it is only 1.5" PVC).

---

It does matter if someone pretends to be three different people. I would think the reason is fairly obvious... One person making an observation is different than three people making the same observation. It also removes the ability for posters to properly assess a poster's knowledge and skill as demonstrated in previous posts.

Loobab… please stop responding to this thread.

what you have started is ridiculous and your points have been debated ad nausem. This is not what the platform is for. Please move on .

@bry911- I don't know anything about plumbing codes.

I didn't know you were a Pro with familiarity with the codes.

I'll have to remember that.

I misunderstood you, I thought you were saying someone changed their posting name, not that they had three different names simultaneously. I didn't know Houzz allowed that.

@loobab - I didn't know you were a Pro with familiarity with the codes.

I'll have to remember that.

I am not sure this was sincere, nor do I understand why you believed Verbo was a "pro with familiarity with the codes."

However, allow me to set the record straight. My father was a plumber and I spent summers, weekends, and practically any break working in plumbing. A plumbing license was not optional in my family. So I was a licensed plumber... that license expired quite some time ago. I am not in the plumbing profession, although I have some familiarity with plumbing and plumbing codes, that pales in comparison to the experience a practicing plumber will have.

I am particularly deficient at troubleshooting plumbing problems, which is a skill that only comes with experience, and since most plumbing questions on these forums are troubleshooting, I would prefer not to hold myself out as a plumbing professional. I am happy to assist you if I can though.

ETA: If anyone is curious about how to get your kids to pay attention in school. Try taking them to the hotel you are plumbing and handing them the keys to a trailer full of toilets and telling them to set toilets from dawn to dusk.

lol!

Regarding the side panel which has a shaker style containing an edge around it which is about 2.5". How can that be tackled with.