Hi Elemire, I've noticed the shrubby element to most of the Noisettes. In most ways in most places, that's good. Here, given that I've decided that I need a few extra canes to pull down to the ground, I think it will work out fine. But if I wanted only a few leggy canes to climb that narrow area between the windows, then shrubby might be a negative. I looked some more this morning at the narrow spot, and 4.5 feet across is probably stretching it. It's probably just about exactly 4 feet wide... meaning that in order to get the canes traveling upwards at 45 degree angles in such a narrow opening, I'll be really, really glad that Crepuscle is _flexible_. >Crepuscule. I think I might be pairing her with Ghislaine de Feligonde on the arbor, the orange gradient might be nice. That sounds like a wonderful pairing to me, Elemire. Crepscule will like every one of the shades of Ghislaine's coloring that she runs into, and both plants will look even better next to the other than they would alone. I don't know about mildew problems with oak trees, Elemire. If ours have it, then they manage to grow just fine in spite of it. Much of the yard here is covered in all sorts of deciduous trees, and they all do okay without any care at all, except for the dogwoods. Dogwoods are prone to succumb to really bad droughts, so during a drought we water the few dogwoods that are within the reach of our hoses. Other than that, we don't pay attention to the trees. Once in awhile, a large tree dies, and at that point we always speculate that it had had enough of all the droughts here in recent years. I'd read that Mac likes a lot of water, and have thought some about the competition of tree roots. I've actually thought some about trying out putting a huge pot with some drainage holes into the ground there, and may end up going that way with it. Not this year, though we might get a small MAC started here as soon as this fall if I ever get the total scheme straight in mind for this section of the yard. We just redid a raised planter (near the potential MAC spot but slightly downhill), and I want to see how those planter roses are doing in terms of the pergola that sits between the two (potentially two) rose sites. Assuming the Renae I cut one cane of RRD out of starts the spring growth with no signs of RRD, then it's going into the planter along with Madame Plantier to climb up the pergola. There's also a Eutin there to wander around the planter floor with some hellebores and spice up the closeup view of the planter from the pergola. If the climbers do reasonably well in their too-shady spot, then we won't need MAC to try to climb up from the other end, and she could then scoot into the nearby oak tree. We cut off the lowest limbs of that oak tree to give some sun to the top of the pergola, and I just hope the amount of direct sunlight there will be sufficient. If not, then I suppose we can put camellias into the planter. (I adore camellias too! It's just that I couldn't quickly get a camellia to do the scented pergola-covering tricks a rose can easily do within a few years.) Well, I'm off to more rose planning/imagining... Thanks again for your comments! Best wishes, Mary

Sherry, The clematis is about 4' from the base of the rose. The space between the shed and trellis is only about 2' to 2.5. The clematis is about halfway between the shed and trellis. Although, the plot is part of a larger bed, the area I'm referring to is about 10'x2' smaller than what looks like in your photo. I wouldn't worry about the shade. I'm far from an expert on clematis, i've killed a few PS is my only true success, but convential wisdom is the roots like to be in shade; the vine likes the sun, but eventually the vine will find sun. One of my vines gets very little sun at it's base. Polish Spirit is a heavy bloomer but is not for a normal shrub because it get's very large. I made that mistake and the reason I have 2 is that it split when I moved it. I wouldn't plant PS any closer than 3' from the base of the rose. I'd be inclined to try one at one end of your arbor like near where the liriope is now. PS is dark purple, it may look nice with the pink. If it doesn't work you can always remove like it did. Moving it for me was a little difficult because it was only about 1' foot from the original rose, but the vine itself reestablished without much ado. I think the risk is rather small. Other rose plantings I've successfully tried: I have two ferns (a japanese painted and an autumn fern) a couple feet near another large rose (Traviata) in filtered sun. Both seem to be happy, happier than alot of others under more conventional conditions. In another bed I have hardy plumbago growing around 2 azaleas, The Dark Lady, and Queen Elizabeth. The shrubs are all healthy and seem unaffected by the plumbago. Plumbago has a pretty loose root structure and I don't think either of the ferns I mentioned are particularly aggressive.

Hey, Anita, those are pressure treated 2x4s (probably should been 4x4s) 2' in the ground (not in concrete but our compacted sand is as close to concrete as you can get.) You may be right about stiffening them up. I'll have to consult DH. He thought I was making the trellis too big. Ha! I TOLD him it was going to be a BIG rose. Sherry

I love Viru's roses. Jeri, your photos show why. I know that I teeter on the brink of not being able to grow them at all, but I feel like I have to try. I have had his Faith Whittlesey for maybe 4 yrs. It's the most beautiful white rose I've ever grown. Although it has some gigantea ancestry, it also has hybrid multiflora and noisette which do very well for me. First year it died to the ground after an average winter/spring. It's vigorous and healthy (never blackspots) enough to come back and bloom, no problem. Each year after, it's done a little better till this year when it had no dieback. Granted, it was a mild winter but we did have a late frost. Unfortunately, the voles got it. I have it potted up and fingers crossed. I'll replace it if I lose it. John, if you like white teas, this one might be worth a try in the right spot.