Question on coco chips

last year

I am thinking of changing my substrate over to coco chips. Don't ask why, but I'll tell you anyway - I'm bored. I'm thinking it might be some good therapy to repot some of my hoyas, and a few orchids as well, over to coco chips. Amazon has coco chips, charcoal and large pearlite (a threefer package) for $54. I think I may get it then slowly over the winter do some repotting.

Right now my plants reside in orchid bark with some cactus soil and the fine pearlite sold in the big box stores. The selection on amazon looks to be a lot better.

The question is - have any of you gone with coco chips? If so, which do you recommend, if any. What has your results been?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks....

Featured Answer

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

last year

Coco chips (CHCs) and coir are physically and chemically different enough from peat and pine bark that they shouldn't be considered to be interchangeable without addressing their differences. This is something I wrote more than 10 years ago after trying coir and CHCs as significant fractions of container media:

Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of its tendency to compact severely, coir is primarily used by the greenhouse industry in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue.

Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which effectively eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields.

I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide Mg (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum [CaSO4] in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil.

The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's were chlorotic and exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. The same occurred when substituting coir for peat in the 5:1:1 mix.

I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales.

That's the view from here. YMMV

Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies

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Comments (21)

iochroma
last year
last modified: last year
First, I don't think repotting in winter is a good idea.

Then, are you having a problem with your media? Does it break down too quickly? Are you in a hot humid climate where a porous media is necessary? A greenhouse?

If you want to experiment, why not start with some cuttings in the coir? Why risk mother plants?

Also, beware of salt in coir and give it a good rinse with pure water before using.

P.S. you want coarse perlite. Fine is garbage.
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
iochroma - yep, I hear you on the coarse pearlite. No problems there. As for the repotting, I also agree with you, and that is exactly what I would do, start with some of the cuttings I've been rooting and do them first. I am pretty much a house hermit, so I tend to helicopter my plants (my dog helicopters me!). They give me something to do and putter over, which is why I would start slowly. Some of the hoyas, while not overly large, are in some large pots and those I would do in the spring.

I use coarse orchid medium with a little cactus soil thrown in for pretty much all the hoyas. They seem to like it, but I'm always up for experimenting. As far as the salts go, I had no idea there was salt in the coco chips. If I do decide to go this route, absolutely I would drench them in rainwater to remove any foreign material or any salts which don't belong.

I was curious if others used the coco chips, because I'm reading a lot about them on the web lately. I know Mike on here is now using tree fern fibers, and he says his orchids love it. I don't know if he uses it on any hoyas, but maybe he can chime in if he reads this.

Stay well IO, keep participating. We look forward to your input and contributions.

Later....
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popmama (Colorado, USDA z5)
last year
last modified: last year
I know that April of UnsolicitedPlantTalks grows completely in coco chips now. She does sell her own blocks of it that she carefully sourced. They are triple-washed or some such thing. All of the hoyas I have purchased from her in the past two years are in only coco chip. I have moved one other hoya to her coco chips. They are doing fine and I'm not planning to mess with them. She does also use slow-release fertilizer and I think she also uses some water-soluable fertilizer. If you are interested, she does have a video about her choice.

https://youtu.be/iUIJMS9ssOo

By the way, I also love experimentation. So I'm all for that.

I can send you a couple of ziplock baggies of UPT coco chips if you want to try a small batch first.
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
Wow Taplia! There's a lot to digest here. I read it once, went back and re-read certain areas, and now tonight I'll re-re-read it again, this time taking notes. Great input. Thank you.
popmama (Colorado, USDA z5)
last year
I'm not a huge fan of coir because I feel like it retains too much moisture. But the chips really don't. If that makes any difference to you, Bill.
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
last year
@Bill M. - I help a dear friend of mine from Fremont, CA with her citrus and hardy fig trees. She tried coir and CHC's and had poor results compared to her results from plants in other media, most of which she had been transitioning ti the 5:1:1 mix, She arranged for some of each (coir + CHCs) to be drop-shipped to me to see if I could do better. She's a physician, so has a good working knowledge of organic chemistry and did a fair amount of inquiry beforehand. I couldn't and eventually spread the coconut products over the lawn.

Most of the information related to the chemical and physical properties I posted above was gleaned from 3 texts, Water, Media, and Nutrition for Greenhouse Crops by Ball, Growing Media for Ornamental Plants and Turf, by Handreck and Black,

and Plant Production in Containers II by Carl Whitcomb.

Since coir and CHCs are allelopathic (toxic to other plants) to a notable % of plants, it's best to research whether or not the plant one might be contemplating growing in coir/ CHCs is susceptible to the product's chemistry. There are also the other issues I listed above that require a different strategy than used when growing in primarily peat and or pine bark.

Best luck, Bill

Al
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
OK - this is a first for me. I checked into something before jumping in and trying it myself. It's a strange feeling. Ususally I try something, screw it up, it doesn't work and blame myself. This time I checked for other opinions. I'm free! Free at last! Whoopee! I'm going to stay with my present mix, the only exception will be I will be purchasing larger chunks of pearlite and charcoal, otherwise it'll be orchid bark, charcoal, pearlite and a sprinkling of cactus soil (maybe with the soil. We'll see). No sense changing what works I guess.

BTW - I have an odorada in bloom. It's been blooming its little heart out for the past week now. Lots of flowers, but absolutely zero smell. If this plant was discovered in the wilds initially, it would have been called Hoya odorless rather than odorata! So, assuming I don't have covid and still have my smeller working, have any of you run across this? Whereby a plant that is supposed to be fragrant - isn't? Just curious.

Thank you all for the through and comprehensive information on the CHC.

Bill M....
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
Update - duh - me being me, I obtained a small bag of coconut husks to try n my orchids. I mixed it with my Hoya mix (bark, pearlite, teeny bit of sphagnum moss, and charcoal) and used it to repot an orchid I just bought and had shipped in the winter (yep - another no no). The orchid arrived fine, although it did tell me it was getting worried but felt relieved when I finally opened the box and introduced myself. It's a maxillaria tenifloria, which was severely pot bound. Now it isn't and now it's in the new mix. Let's see how it works out.
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
last year
Yes - please follow up with a follow-up. That, from the department of redundancy department. I'd be interested in knowing how the plant tolerates the CHCs.

Al
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
Will do tapla. I too am curious.
stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
last year
Bill, for wlhat it's worth, I now have all my Hoyas growing in coco chips and they seem to love it. Just repotted my big fungii x pubicalyx RHP today, and it's root system looked fabulous. Wish I had thought to take a picture. I think UPT has a video about growing in coco chips. I believe one of the things they said was not to let the chips go completely dry before watering plants.
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
Hey Wendy, glad to see you back. I was really worried about you. I'll email later today.
stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
last year
Hi Bill, I don't know why I haven't been on here for so long. Been lurking around Reddit for a while.
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
check your email.
popmama (Colorado, USDA z5)
last year
Hey there SLD! All of the hoyas I purchased from UPT came to me in 100% coco chip. I did buy some of theirs and I sent some to Bill so he could experiment without committing to buying a whole brick.

I repotted my poloystacha in coco chip and it's doing well.

They do dry out in my climate pretty fast. But that's fine. I just make sure to water those ones once a week. I also fertilize with every watering.
stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
last year
One of the reasons I love getting plants from UPT (the other minor reason being that they have great plants in fabulous condition)!

I do have a few in small pots that I water every 5 days or so.
Bill M.
Original Author
last year
I'm thinking from reading these posts that coco chips are the way to go. Once spring sets in, I am going to repot some of my lazy plants in chips and see if that motivates them to take off. Hopefully they'll wake up.
popmama (Colorado, USDA z5)
last year
Bill, keep in mind that UPT also heavily feeds their plants. At one time, she did give me some information on their fertilizing regimine. Here's some notes:

foliar feed every 7-10 days with 16-16-16

use a slow release fertilizer 14-14-14 on top

Cal-Mag every watering
stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
last year
I use osmocote plus on mine. Every once in a blue moon I may use some dilute Dyna-gro.
newhostalady Z6 ON, Canada
last year
I grow my phalaenopsis orchids in pure coconut husk. The smaller ones in a 3 or 4 inch pot are in sphagnum moss. I have had success growing the phals in the coconut husk. I usually buy the coconut husk at orchid shows where they bring in plant and supplies for sale. I was not able to get any coconut husk in the last couple of months, I have just bought coconut husk chips from Amazon. I haven't used it yet. I plan to rinse it with hot water several times. You've rinsed enough when the water is almost clear. From what I understand, orchids can grow in many different kinds of media. It's generally the watering schedule that changes with different types of media.

Question on coco chips

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

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