Show us not only the kitchen in 2d as it is now but also how it relates to the rest of the house.

The first idea is pretty bad. Not enough space on each side of the sink for effective dishwashing and drying, let alone for food prep. A variation on the second idea could work, if you are willing to move windows. Left to right on lower wall: 18" drawer base for silverware, sink, 36" to 42" countertop, range, 18" minimum countertop. Cabinet above the DW for glassware, plates and bowls in a drawer unit at your bar. Apologies, I have to run and pick up kdis from school so I can't check the math on whether this fits. But someone else will probably come along soon with a better idea, anyway.

Hopefully there will be an option # 3.

If yo bring groceries in through garage, you’ll have to carry them over to set down then back to pantry.
Somehow when there was a peninsula it was more connected workspace, though I can also see more cramped. But probably you have thought through your must- haves & how you use kitchen.
Also for real planning thought it does matter as to the other rooms & functions.
I’m not trying to be a downer, just wondering what are other options , since I’m not as well- versed as to where certain stuff has to stay due to plumbing and such.

Layout 2 but swap sink and fridge would give you a nice work triangle.

layout one is out because you have no prep space next to sink. your current layout is fabulous compared to this one. layout 2 also not enough prep space (between sink and stove) and dw should not be in prep space.

agree a whole house layout (even if not exactly to scale) would be helpful. i’m skeptical that a small island with 2 support posts will look nice or be very useful because there is a 6 ft aisle.

It seems like the pantry and / or coat closet are driving the locations of the kitchen work triangle to be more dysfunctional. I’m not saying to ditch those, but is there some way to re- imagine that storage?
Or is losing opening up the wall the culprit?
Somehow your getting a bigger box but sides of the box aren’t arranged as well.
Some of it will also depend on what cabinetry you’re putting where. I’m not saying that great cabinets can overcome poor layout, but that the bending, reaching, what’s close to where , the very individual aspects of what one person wants right next to stove vs willing to walk to get it— is part of how it feels to use a kitchen and so can be part of the wishlist vs tolerable tradeoffs.
So that’s something that for me would be integral to the design.

Honestly? None of the three are very good -- original + 2 options.

Please post a sketch of the entire floor the Kitchen is on. The sketch lets us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the home. It doesn't have to be to-scale, but it should accurately show how the rooms relate to each other and should include all interior & exterior doors. In addition, it will help us see how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen. Label the front entry and family entry. The family entry is usually a garage or side entry, but it might not be. It's helpful to know which door you use to bring in groceries.

Questions:

• Are you planning to use the Dining Room as a Dining Room (i.e., a table space)?
• Tell us about you and your family and how you plan to use your Kitchen. All-adults? Empty Nesters? Children (now or in the future)?
• What appliances (& their sizes) do you plan to have? I think I see a 30" range, 36" counter-depth refrigerator, 24" DW. Anything else?
• Where are you flexible? Can walls/windows/doors/doorways change (move, change size, add, delete)?
• Do you have a basement under the Kitchen or are you on a slab?

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5972404/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-2020-interim

If the Powder Room can be changed, we need a full set of measurements for that space on the right as well.

Based on what you've posted so far:

As others have noted, you do not have room for a functional / useful island. Peninsula -- maybe, island -- no But, not the peninsula in the original Kitchen.

The posts will make the island even less useful and, b/c it's so small, will look "off".

How large is the Foyer? Can the wall move to the left to make the Kitchen a bit wider in that direction?

Are you willing to close off the Foyer doorway completely?

Where does the Living Room wall intersect with the Kitchen wall?

(Brainstorming right now!)

To those who know structural engineering: If the top Kitchen wall is taken down part way, what's the maximum safe distance b/w posts or wall segments?

Isn't that just a function of what kind of beam OP can afford to replace the wall section with? For the right price, the whole wall could come down.

@Ray Pearl, it would be really helpful to see a sketch of the kitchen, foyer, and dining room all together, along with some idea of how you would like to lay these rooms out. Ideas that might make it easier to format your kitchen include swapping living and dining spaces, and/or walling off the kitchen/garage doorway, and having the garage enter into that back corner of the living room.

In the meantime, in the absence of information, here's an idea that leaves most current walls, doorways, and windows as is. I've made the countertops at the window wall countertops 6" deeper, to shrink distance between sink and range a bit. And I've added a doorway that connects to the dining room, so a bit of engineering work necessary there.

It probably is, but I suspect there's a max span b/w posts without getting prohibitively expensive...but maybe not.

Here's one idea.

It keeps the range out of the busy path through the Kitchen from the Garage to the rest of the home as well as b/w the Powder Room and the rest of the home. Having to cross not only a wide aisle but also through a busy traffic path b/w the range and sink is far from ideal. The range & Cooking Zone should be in the most protected area, not the busiest!

It does close up the Living Room door - it's replaced with a Pantry in that space. Since it's already framed out for the doorway, it wouldn't have to be as narrow as the between the studs coat closets.

Of course, you could switch them and have the coats in the old Living Room doorway and the Pantry b/w the studs, that would be up to you. However, I would prefer to have the Pantry in the Kitchen and keep the coats out of the Kitchen (as much as possible).

If you don't want or need a Pantry, then you could leave it open.

It also closes up the door b/w the Foyer and Kitchen. Whether you're OK with that, I don't know,.

I left the window wall completely free of upper cabinets. If you prefer more upper cabinet space, you could put them b/w the windows and put in a 30" x 24" Easy Reach in the upper corner.

No, it doesn't have an island. Without removing the wall b/w the Living Room and Kitchen altogether, you just cannot fit a reasonable island in this Kitchen.

If an island is that important to you, consider pricing out blowing out the wall and installing a header & posts. I'll work up that idea tomorrow if I hear from you about it.

Wow - I am blown away by all the responses already. I have updated the post to show the whole floor (the house is a tri-level) which I hope will help.

We are waiting to figure out living room configuration depending on what we do with the kitchen.

We would really like some sight lines to the living/dining, and a couple (2) bar stools/seats in the kitchen for homework if possible, but aren't set on the island. Would a half-wall part of the length between the kitchen/living room help?

Truly appreciative of all of your help so far.

Yes, a half-wall would help!

Let me think some more.

Definitely helps, but you should price out the difference between a half wall and a beam all the way across that gives you a full island. It may not be substantially different. We just finished a remodel where we replaced a 12.5' beam that had a support post with a PSL beam that spanned the distance with no support. Total cost was somewhere around $4k with engineering (we didn't get exact breakdowns, so I'm guessing a bit). Not a big percentage of the overall project. Once you pay for that, the additional cost of a full beam may not be much more. Especially if you are ok with a LVL or PSL beam that protrudes below the ceiling.

I like Buehl's plan. I would skip the pantry and put a door there instead. That way people can head in and out of the garage without crossing the kitchen. You could put a short shallow pantry against part of the half-bath wall. Personally, I would also go with a half wall that frames a window above the island. But that's because Covid quarantine with teens made me really appreciate the ability to screen off other people's TV and music noise. When kids are young, you want them in sight all the time. Eventually, you really don't. A half wall would make it easier to wall in, or even just add shutters or a pull-down screen when you want more kitchen privacy.

My other question would be have you lived in this house yet? What don't you like about the *function* of the kitchen? If you haven't lived there I would strongly recommend living there for 6-12 months before starting a major reno to decide how you actually use the house. I'm very glad we did that as what we would have done initially was not necessarily what we ended up doing. Sightlines are great with toddlers, but by 4-5 I'm happy to be able to cook in the kitchen in peace while my kid does something in the living room on her own. I like having separate spaces and separate messess lol. If you aren't big time cooks I might make a small efficient kitchen and keep a kitchen table for the kids to hang out in while you cook.

I have a couple of thoughts - bear with me, I'm brainstorming!

Have you considered switching the Living Room & Kitchen? That would put the Kitchen in the back of the house so it's not the first thing seen when coming in the front door, put it closer to the deck (admittedly, not by much), and it's not what people see when they look into your home from the front. I don't know if you have a porch or a sidewalk or other close to the front of your home, but if you do, I think I'd prefer to move the Kitchen out of the "front lines" where everyone can see.

Or, move the Kitchen to the current Living Room, move the Dining Room to the current Kitchen and move the Living Room to the other side of the space.

Sorry for the lack of responses today - one of our kids is sick so I did not have a chance to go through all of it earlier.

@Buehl - your ideas are fantastic. I need to think through some of the ideas and walk through the space.

1) Closing off the doorway to the front door/stair case doesn't bother me too much. I doubt we will use that door often and there will still be easy access to the stairs and it does give us a lot more room for the kitchen.

2) I do like having a couple of entry points from the kitchen to the living room just to help the flow . I have an idea on this without taking away from the kitchen but will have to sketch that out tomorrow!

3) I had not considered switching the kitchen and living areas. I am not immediately against it just a little hesitant about all the extra work, but this will be a big project either way. We do not live close to a road/sidewalk so views from passerby's are not a concern.

4) From your helpful feedback among others I think steering away from an island is the best idea and opting for a penninsula or half wall is the way to go.

@lharpie & @mcarroll16 - Thank you both as well. I see your point as not always wanting sight lines. We both work during the day so really cherish our time at night with the kids now but realize as they get older they might not have those feelings too! And I do use the kitchen to sneak a bite of cookie/candy without them seeing me now! I am really starting to lean toward the idea of a half wall that could be closed later but still opens up the space and adds some sightlines if needed.

split level has pros and cons..as a kid the lower family room was perfect for private tv watching/ hanging out / etc while adults could be on the main floor or vice versa. Then there was a lower sub level yet where dad had work space/ laundry/ storage etc. These floor plans are not as much in favour now. I would seriously live in the home before any wall removal / big renovation undertaking. The split levels I see now with wall removal on this floor where kitchen is located have a nice nod to the the open concept . It may or may not be correct in various instances. I might encourage thought about that lower level family room .....a project involving a wet bar/ entertainment section added in there might provide greater value. Then you can come back to a much bigger kitchen project in the future. Wall removal here with that family room down a few steps as a secondary area can yield great results. Leaving the wall and keeping in the footprint is harder in a way to make this something special and worth the cost trouble of any big kitchen renovation. Your kitchen is perfectly usable ..when you say it is "the one thing " try to figure out .....is it the flow ? and walled off nature with the original dinette ? or is it the cabinet style/details within the space ???. Something strikes you as needing a change but figure out what that is.....these are transformed spaces with wall removal......again the split level has that extra level with the family room so this kind of change has its merits. I dont think you can know quite yet. Be careful w a split level. Collect some inspiration pics ..they help ideas coalesce . Is the cabinet designer an interior design person or architect or kitchen designer? A holistic approach to these adjacent spaces is what you want... Congrats and I hope you get a good offer on the listing.

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Alternatively....a banquette built in at the dinette zone offers an upgrade and destination for the seating element. Your wndow height is conducive to a great situation with this concept. Then less might have to be done with the wall "in question" when you get set to redo the working kitchen area. Shown are two different styles.....there is no limit to creativity w banquettes.

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Congrats on the new home! Wise to live in it 6-12 mo to see what works and what doesn’t about the main floor plan and the kitchen functionality for your family - especially if you have not lived in a tri-level before.

Hey everyone - sorry for the delay, life got a bit hectic for a few days.

We have been living in the house for about 6 weeks but I do understand what everyone is saying about waiting to actually start tearing down walls, etc. I think if we have a couple plans/ideas in place we can envision it as we live there for a few more months and think through if it would work well for us.

As I mentioned, based off everyone's helpful feedback and seeing alternatives - an island just doesn't make any sense. We are not completely against closing the door off to the foyer/stair area but I do see a benefit in leaving it open if we can find a kitchen layout we like with it open.

Any thoughts on the layout below? The hatched area would be a half wall/ pass through.

For the bar stool area, I was thinking something below - where the stools are on the kitchen side and have half depth base cabinets (with items that are not used frequently).

Thank you to everyone again for all the responses & helpfulness.

I dunno about that. The over hang ( would it be 12” ?) is quite shallow for legroom and the fact that the stools are in a pathway. It’s not quite the same as perching maybe at an angle with a 12” overhang outside a traffic zone. It depends on what’s to be accomplished there.

That seems like a really non-functional kitchen. Worse than what you currently have. Your prep and cleanup zones are squished in one corner, and most of your countertop in locations that are inefficient for good use.

It feels to me like the front windows are driving your layouts, and that you have many more possibilities if you are willing to change those windows. Here's one idea. It closes off the door to the foyer, but gives you a better doorway for access to the dining room that doesn't run into foyer traffic. The gray boxes are assumed support posts, with headers over the peninsula seating and the new doorway. Your current windows are in this drawing, but I'm assuming you would modify their size and placement.

keep the passage from foyer to kitchen but shift it down . use the corner where you want these 2 stools at a counter and buy an actual bistro table and a couple small chairs with backs. You have space to make a small but comfortable eating /lite meal area and you seem to be edging toward that but the two stools at a counter is just not worth the trouble. Question re sink under the window.......why dont you turn the corner onto bathroom wall and place pantry or cabs/counter storage there..or fridge there......moving fridge there allows more options for a table where you have stools going in.. Here; smaller scale for your corner which is nicely adequate to do something . dont spend on an entire renovation of this whole space and end up with a counter and two stools facing a wall with a pass through .....you have really ample space .

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Hello everyone! It has been a while and we have since hired a kitchen designer and structural engineer to come up with a floorplan that is functional and affordable.

I have always loved navy blue lower cabinets and had planned on navy lowers with white uppers. Now that it is getting closer to renovation and ordering cabinets I am getting cold feet about them. As you can see in the renderings, we have added a wood slat fireplace wall with black accents in the adjacent living room. I am worried this feature wall may clash with navy blue cabinets.

She has done a rendering below to show what it would look like with the wood/black fireplace wall near the navy blue cabinets and would appreciate insight on whether you think this space clashes.

Thank you!

@herbflavor, @mcarroll16, @marmiegard_z7b, @marylut, @Buehl, @lharpie, @cpartist

Thank you all! The (almost) final pictures are here and we love it! https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6384338/navy-kitchen-reveal

Wow! Just checked out the pictures on your link, and it's terrific. You found a talented designer. Terrific, super-functional layout, and you managed to get the in-kitchen bar seating that you wanted. Especially love that amazing prep space between sink and range that has its own window. Congratulations on a wonderful remodel!