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Kitchen Entryway Design Challenge

Grady Owens
last year
last modified: last year

Alright Internet Hivemind, I've got a challenge for you.

My current house, recently purchased, has a LOT wrong with it, but principal is the layout of the front half. This house was built in the late 1950s by estimates (no build date is on-record, but this is based on estimates from people who helped build it, and the first family to live in it), and has been added onto over the years since, about once a decade until the '90s.

The front half of the house is the ORIGINAL house, mostly. The dining room and current entryway were added in the '60s, converted from a carport and front porch respectively, but otherwise. Additions were generally made to the back, and so the layout is now something of a maze. (It's not HORRIBLE, but. Absolutely no flow.)

And so, here's the immediate front-of-house: As you enter...

Looking left to the dining room...

Through the doorway on the right...

And looking into the kitchen, which can also be seen through the pass-through in the first and second images, and the doorway on the left in the third shot. (All of these pictures were taken during the building inspection, and so the current appearance is slightly different, but the layout's the same. Also, yes, the previous owners renovated the place to rent, so there's a lot of low-grade garbage.)

These entry halls are superfluous, unnecessary and problematic.

Immediately behind the kitchen is this, a weird bar / laundry area for which I already have preliminary plans. There is a laundry "closet" immediately against the wall to the kitchen, visible to the left (where the light switches are in the first image), and a closet for the water heater (on the right in the first image, open, and to the right of the "bar" in the second), both of which will be relocated to better-suited spots in the home.



As you can (hopefully) see, this is where the flow gets choked.

My concept is thus: Tear down the walls separating the kitchen and entry hallways, as well as that separating the kitchen from the bar area behind it. Cabinets would be moved around to keep a division of space between kitchen and bar, between social spaces and non. So, there would be floating uppers above perhaps a peninsular lower section, with an access / doorway opening more centralized between the bar area and the front door, so there aren't nearly as many choke points. Sink located on an island, and the wall between the dining room and kitchen remains.

CHALLENGES:

1. This would mean the front door opens directly into the kitchen. I need some way to meld the spaces so this doesn't feel too strange.

2. The step-up into the dining room area (by my estimates unfortunately necessary, likely added on top of extant slab in order to beef it up for the ensuing structure) is significantly further "out" on the entry hall side, compared to the kitchen side.

3. STRUCTURAL. One of the walls I'd want to remove is, I suspect, a load-bearing wall. Also, the current (hipped) roof on this house is another add-on; the original structure, with a more typical southwestern flat roof, was NOT designed to support it, as evidenced by cracking in the extant kitchen walls, above each (pocket) doorway. This is an issue I'd need to address anyway, since elements are definitely upset.

4. Flow. The kitchen sink, for example, is immediately behind that pass-through presently; we can turn it, but I want to keep the plumbing roughly where it is because this is a concrete slab foundation. Also, the current coat closet is off to the right of the entry hall, currently immediately right of that visible doorway. If people come in, hang their coats up, then have to navigate a poorly-planned kitchen to get to social spaces... that's bad!

Additional challenge mode: I'm trying to do this whole house MCM (with a southwestern flair and overall eclectic styling). This necessarily dictates certain elements of style which present additional challenges!

So... Any thoughts? Ideas? I'm all ears at this point. This is... such a frustrating challenge for me at this point. The structural issues are relatively easy to deal with; I know what I'm doing there. The FLOW is the biggest challenge, especially since this would also create an entryway-kitchen combined space.

Since I discussed plans for the bar area, here are some modeled concepts for that, and a few for the living room as well, to give an idea of the sort of style I'm trying to go for.






Comments (47)

  • Lorraine Leroux
    last year

    The people here will need a scaled floor plan to offer any help. Maybe a before plan and an intended plan as well as an exterior shot or two.

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  • PRO
    Floored You: TileDesigners
    last year

    You are describing a really big budget project. I don't think you realize HOW big a budget it will take to correct all of that! The home has a lot of quirky charming details, like the terra cotta and quarry tile floors. Those are things that can be worked with. Ultimately, it is far cheaper to work with the home, than against it. Unless you want to think about a teardown. A teardown fixes all of the issues at once, for less money than a lot of small projects over time.

  • kandrewspa
    last year

    You need an architect for a project this large. I hope you have a big budget, and I hope half or more of the house is fine the way it is. Otherwise a teardown really might be the way to go. Because you already have a conglomeration of additions there could be a wide range of quality in the parts and once you start taking walls out you could get some expensive surprises.

  • apple_pie_order
    last year

    It's a complicated house. What do you like most about the house? Location, style, roominess, lot and landscape?


    Have you considered moving the front door?


    Are you in a high or low cost of living area? Do you have a budget range in mind?

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    last year

    First a very detailed to scale floor plan is needed here. But I think this is beyond hive help. You need probably at best a really good Interior designer . If moving wall s is p[art of the plan an architect or at least a structural engineer to help with spotting load bearing walls. I think I would need to know what popped up in the home inspection since the carport conversion would be a huge concern to me. There musrt be some permit info at the town so maybe at least get those .If none are available run away or get a bulldozer and start over . I too would love to know what the budget is .

  • Grady Owens
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Wow, genuinely wasn't sure what to expect in terms of responses, so thanks everyone! This is my first time posting to Houzz discussions.

    First, yes, I'm aware this is a MAJOR undertaking; honestly, most things in this house will require major work, not just because of the regular additions, but because many of these additions were not done correctly or well. (For example, perhaps most egregiously, the ceiling in the living room, a tongue-in-groove paneling over vigas, is basically unsupported, save for by those vigas.) At this point, I'm really only looking for ideas, not fully-fledged designs or anything. Honestly, even just inspiration would be helpful; right now I've got just about nothing.

    For those asking for detailed plans, again I'm really more just looking for ideas, but I do understand a need to see the space I'm working with. I hope this is sufficient. It's not complete; the Master Bath is definitely unfinished, the current kitchen cabinets are incomplete, and the laundry "closet", and water heater closet have already been removed in planning that space. But this should give a basic idea.


  • marmiegard_z7b
    last year

    I’ve got no design skills but the idea of spending tons of money to end up entering the house into the kitchen give me the heebie- jeebies. Plus won’t it be a windowless room? I can’t really tell where all the plumbing and electrical options are, in existing kitchen or behind a wall, but I would want to flip the kitchen to the back or side somehow.
    I don’t really like entering into a great room with kitchen in direct view of front door, but if at least there is some distance, and a family room/ keeping room or other sitting area is a buffer, that seems better.
    It’s different , I think, in a small cottage or cabin or vacation home but then that design would have been planned from the get- go with the resulting construction economies of a small compact home and a ( hopefully) clever layout.

  • felizlady
    last year

    The toughest issue is all the different floor heights as they relate to all the other spaces, and then all the different flooring materials. If the floors are all at the same height and most of the same material on the main level, the house may be more comfortable: carpet or rugs on hardwood for the public areas, tile or linoleum in the kitchen and bathrooms.

  • Lorraine Leroux
    last year

    Eliminate the step into the dining room from the entrance by putting up a wall and make it into a closet.

    Remove all the kitchen walls except the front entrance one so you are not looking directly into the kitchen as you enter the home.

    Can the floors be raised to match the dining room or is that the only room that is raised?

    If that is the only room I would consider making that into a room that is less used.



  • rebunky
    last year

    This was the first thing that Popped in my head.

    You really need to lose the idea of keeping the kitchen sink plumbing where it is. It ruins any chance of having a decent layout.

    I am not sure if the dining table is to scale, but just to give you the idea.


  • Mrs. S
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I totally agree with @felizlady and @Lorraine Leroux about the floor heights. I could live with opening a front door into a kitchen (but I wouldn't like it), and wasted space in hallways.... but the uneven floors just look like huge dental and medical bills waiting to happen.

    What is a MCM house with Southwestern flair, and with eclectic on top of that? Is that your style and you want the house to reflect you?

    I don't know where you are, but around where I live, a remodel of that magnitude, even on a small house, would be hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more. You need an architect, structural engineer and designer, and that's just to start.

  • Grady Owens
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @Verbo I understand where you're coming from, and honestly don't entirely disagree. But, I do intend to fix these issues; I believe they're repairable. I do understand this will incur large costs for invisible elements.

    @felizlady @Lorraine Leroux @Mrs. S, I am 100% in agreement about the varying heights of the floors (and very much for the reasons mentioned, particularly accidents waiting to happen). Unfortunately, the dining room is not the only place, and elsewhere in the house the height is inconsistent due to the way it was always added onto. I very much wanted to level it all out when I first bought the place, but at this point I suspect doing so would likely just wind up in bulldoze town.

    @Mrs. S I'm referring to mid-century modern being the primary focus, with elements of southwestern playing off it (because a southwestern style by itself becomes extremely kitsch extremely quickly, but elements of the style play into MCM extremely well); the addition of eclectic is simply because, elements of my own style are themselves radically different, and I enjoy having that curated feel. Because the house was built in the '50s, I'm wanting to lean into the MCM aspect, but also I thoroughly enjoy the whole "super-science" aesthetic in shows like Jonny Quest and The Venture Brothers. The southwestern element is because this is in central New Mexico. :V (That also means such a remodel isn't going to be nearly as expensive, though it will absolutely add up; this entire state is well below the national poverty line, so the general cost of living is lower.)

    @rebunky I also 100% agree that keeping the kitchen sink where it is is quickly becoming problematic. I actually have a MILD concept I'm playing around with (which is kinda similar to yours, though I do still want to keep the kitchen WHERE it is; I feel like having a separated dining room makes that space feel more formal. Also, that would then put the kitchen itself at an elevation, which I feel like that'd be a different kind of awkward), and even in that scenario the kitchen sink being where it is really blows it out of the water. I'll probably have to move it at least slightly, make it part of an island.

    @HU-614470701 The kitchen is PRESENTLY a windowless room; in fact, opening it up into that entry foyer would give it a window. But yes, that's one aspect of its current frustration. I'd actually considered relocating the kitchen to the back where a little library / "bedroom" space is now, but that then destroys a potential bedroom on top of needing to relocate plumbing, which given the distance would become an astronomical cost extremely quickly. Hence why I'm thinking about just leaving it where it is, but shifting it around / bumping it out quite a bit.

  • drblount10
    last year

    Welcome to Houzz! Thanks for the floor plan! It is interesting to figure out the story of a living space and how it was supposed to work. 

    Ditto rebunky and Ms. Leroux. Re rebunky: your plan is an open concept with a kitchen box stuck in the middle of it. It depends on your budget (see prev comments) whether you do a bulldozer/demo and rework, or if you work with the house.

    If you are leaving the plumbing as is, then you could open the back kitchen wall totally or partially to overlook the "bar." (Apologies if this is what you meant before.) Get-togethers would happen in the bar space. You could put a counter with 2 counter height chairs on the open kitchen wall. People would hang coats and go straight back there. If it opens to the backyard, even better. If you like, a freestanding mod pantry can go on the dining room side so people can walk through freely to the bar.

    The dining room is separated, so make it an away room, a sitting room, office, craft room, art, kid homework area, depending on what you need.

    If you like this idea, you could either close in the current pass thru, or extend it to feel more open there too. Or you could put up some small mid mod curtains like they did back then. ☺ Mid mod credenza/console and a bench can go in the entry space, or even shoe storage.

    Not a pro, but I would start there, before thinking about tile and cabinets. What do you think? It will be fun to see this unfold!

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    last year

    I love MCM but what you have has been taken so far from that that IMO not worth the money to get back to what once might have been a nice home. You first need to remove all the parts that have been added and probably none to code. Then you get to work making sure all th electrical, plumbing heating are up to code then you start making it better . Like I mentioned get a copy of the permits pulled for all those additions . If not permit rip it out.

  • drblount10
    last year

    So: looks like--price removing current  kitchen back wall, price moving kitchen to front room, and price reducing height of front room, then other rooms. Once you get these prices, hopefully decision making will be easier. Wait until you decide about the kitchen before you do anything else.

    Re rebunky: something tells me that front room used to be an eat in kitchen. 

    BTW: floor plan question--1 photo shows when you walk through from the entry you meet a water heater. Is the bar space back there? Are there aspects of the floor plan I am missing?

  • mojavemaria
    last year

    What about keeping kitchen where it is but closing off that strange pass through and making the front bedroom into your great room and the bar room into a bedroom? This would make the house more ”normal” IMO.

  • rebunky
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Re rebunky: your plan is an open concept with a kitchen box stuck in the middle of it.

    I am not clear on what you mean by “kitchen box“. I moved the kitchen to the dining room. Are you talking about the front entry? I was trying to make some sort of an entry area as you walk in. Although I think that the wall across the front door may need to be pushed back further as it is looks very tight in the photos.

    My main concern was moving the kitchen to a room with a window.

    If you look at Grady’s virtual design of the ”Bar” room (with the fan on the wall), he likes dark colors. Nothing wrong with that. However, that room is basically the same room as the kitchen.

    So everything is decorated in dark colors, and there is not one window anywhere, except the one tiny side light next to the front door. You won’t get any light from the dining room because Grady doesn’t want to remove the dining room wall. so it will be a cozy formal dining room. It is going need a lot of recessed lights on the ceiling or you will be walking into a cave.

    I also cannot even imagine how totally weird it will look to open the front door and you literally walk straight into either the back the kitchen sink cabinet, or the side of the kitchen sink cabinet.

    Grady, I am sorry if I am sounding harsh. I just really think that is a bad idea.

  • drblount10
    last year

    Hi, just saw the new posts. Rebunky, very sorry about before, I wasn't clear. The "kitchen box" is referring to the OP's floor plan he provided. I was trying to agree with your idea about opening it all up and moving kitchen to the front dining space. I agree about a kitchen having a window too.

    Grady, your house is definitely inspiring us and generating a lot of great ideas!

  • Grady Owens
    Original Author
    last year

    @drblount10 Yes, the idea I'd had was to remove the wall but keep at least some of the cabinets, to keep the spaces separate but still open. The wall cabinets presently in the kitchen are legitimately 47" tall, so there's a super-tiny backsplash gap which I'd like to heighten if I were to go that route. I do like your idea of the bar-height countertop on the bar side, though! Gives additional separation to the space, but also provides a possibility for more social interaction between the spaces, while also providing an even less formal space than the living room. I'll have to see what I can come up with... As for your question about the floor plan: Yes, the water heater closet is presently at the end of the "bar", where the radiused end is shown in my mock-up. The place I'm planning to move it already has gas piped to it from another fixture that will be removed, and has water hookups literally on the other side of the wall so plumbing shouldn't be much of an issue.

    @mojavemaria Unfortunately, the bar space is pretty central to the house; one has to pass through it to get to the master bedroom, as well as the entire back of the house. It really wouldn't make a good bedroom space.

    @rebunky The kitchen space would definitely be decorated in much lighter colors; the cabinets, for example, would likely be a warm honey oak (which is what they are under the in my opinion ugly-as-sin white crackle paint the previous owners put on them), and honestly I don't hate the idea of extending the quarry tile throughout the space. Elements would be the same to help create a cohesion to the space, for example I'm thinking the countertops would be consistent throughout. Also, it's hard to tell in these shots, but there are skylights in the spaces, too! It's not as nice as full-size picture windows like one would expect in keeping with MCM, but they do let in sunlight. And you're not sounding harsh at all! I completely get it; I myself was quite opposed to the idea initially. But, things being what they are, I feel I need to make do.

    So I actually have something of an idea half-formed, thanks largely to suggestions from here, so thanks everyone! I'll see about fleshing things out this week in software, see if I can properly illustrate my vision.

  • dan1888
    last year

    My screen shows only half of what appears to be a complete floorplan. I'd like to see the rest.

  • RedRyder
    last year

    I’m with @dan1888. I cannot see what the back of the house looks like. Can you repost the floor plan? Also, is there a basement or a crawl space?

    You may be ripping up a lot more of the flooring than you realize. Trying to use some of the tile floor when the rooms aren’t level is unrealistic. Based on your description of the house, you may be taking down a lot of walls and taking up several floors to get a level base. You haven’t said much about the electric and HVAC systems. How are the windows? The roof? Those need to be addressed first so you live in a comfortable house.

  • rebunky
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I am glad I didn’t offend. I understand having to make do. Sometimes we have no choice but to make compromises based on costs or for structural reasons that cannot change. But, you never know what creative suggestions the wonderful people here will come up with to help you make your home flow better.

    Yes, do come back with an updated floor plan to illustrate your vision. Maybe start a new post with that and any updated info.

    Please included the rest of the house plan, including the living room, master bedroom, and anything else. Maybe we can help fine tune from there.

    One other thing I would love for you to change is the entrance to the master bathroom/bedroom being right off the kitchen/bar area. That is not ideal. It seems like wasted space with that angled doorway and it seems out of proportions size wise. I mean it is bigger then the dining room and the kitchen!

    Great news on the skylights. I almost asked earlier about whether you could add skylights. Yes, they help bring in so much light. We have one in our entry, kitchen, and both bathrooms. Love them!

  • Grady Owens
    Original Author
    last year

    Yeah, I didn't include the back half of the house because I didn't really consider it relevant? I don't mind sharing it, though. There's not much in the way of surprises, I don't feel like. I *have* modified this layout with my own plans; in the current living room space in particular, there's presently a large, bulky fireplace that bifurcates the space (roughly above where "LIVING" is labeled), dividing it into two spaces so small they're not terribly usable. The two "utility" spaces, the smaller is where I plan to relocate the water heater--it's currently occupied by the furnace for the rear half of the home, which I'd like to remove and tie in the front-of-home furnace to that HVAC system because it's more than powerful enough to heat the whole space. The larger is where I plan to move the laundry.


    @rebunky Oh man, you have to see the master bathroom for it to be believed. At face value, everything looks great--a friend of mine even dubbed it "The Sex Bathroom"--but beneath that facade, problematic elements begin to appear. The space is largely occupied by a gigantic drop-in tub and a separate walk-in shower. Most everything is builder-grade--the previous owners were (professional somehow, mind you) contractors, and so put a lot of stuff in this house that LOOKS okay, but was actually bottom-of-the-barrel stuff. And yes, that's a breaker box immediately outside the walk-in shower.


    @RedRyder This is a pure concrete slab foundation on-grade; this is extremely common in the southwest. The reason for the different elevations in the floor level is because additions were built onto extant concrete pads--the porch, the carport, etc.--and so they thickened the pad to support structure rather than tear out the old pad and make the whole thing level. At this point, leveling the floors would involve tearing down the house and starting fresh. There is no basement or crawl space. Electrical definitely needs to be updated and fixed; there are all kinds of issues, since everything was just sorta conglomerated together. Thankfully, it runs through the attic almost entirely rather than exclusively through the walls, so it's relatively easy to access. But, these are known knowns; I know the issues with the electrical system, the HVAC, and whatnot. Issues that WILL be addressed first, prior to any actual work on changing up the design / layout.

  • RedRyder
    last year

    Good info. How crazy would it be to move the kitchen to the back of the house? That opens up the middle to be part of your “community”entertaining space. The curved window looks like it offers the most light, which is an optimal feature (to me)for a kitchen.

    If HVAC and electrical can be altered via the attic, that should work. You have a huge master bedroom and other bedrooms but not a great living-entertaining space nor kitchen. Does the back of the house have good light and privacy?

  • drblount10
    last year

    Thanks for the plan at the back of the house. I wouldn't mind seeing more of this bar room as is. Could it be a new dining area? I like the big rec space back there, and it opens to the back yard. 

    Flow? There is a show on Hulu called Renovate, Don't Relocate, that I like, and they address a lot of similar issues, esp odd additions and layouts. In your space, now that I see the new pics, it seems you need a way to get people from that entry to the back of the house, away from the front room. 

    If the kitchen was moved to the back, it would open everything up, give you windows, make outdoor entertaining easier. If the kitchen had to stay, that's why I'm wondering about the bar as an eating area. Then people could easily move from dining to the rec space.

    Let me know your thoughts here.

  • sheloveslayouts
    last year
    last modified: last year

    It's a shame what's been done to this once little house, but what an exciting opportunity to redeem it!

    I have many ideas, but first questions...

    Which direction is north?

    In your location, are north-facing spaces most desirable with west-facing windows a terrible idea?

    Is there a garage elsewhere?

    Which side of the house will you park?



  • sheloveslayouts
    last year



  • skynina
    last year

    Cool project. Lots of information to absorb, but I’m very intrigued…a red kitchen sink! How many square feet do you have? This reminds me of a dilemma I remember following where a guy discovered a hidden part to his house that he turned into a cool lounge and bathroom. I’ll see if I can find a link

  • rebunky
    last year

    Grady, Can we just start calling your project, ‘The groovy love shack’? 😂

    @sheloveslayouts, Did you used to have a different username on gardenweb by chance? Your mountain photo looks familiar and then the fact that you love layouts reminded me of someone named Benjisbride from years ago. She was awesome at layouts too!

  • sheloveslayouts
    last year

    Hi!!! I am benjesbride! I'm still Benje's Bride in real life too, but when reactivating my account I needed to update my user name and thought I'd try something new. I was wondering if anyone would notice. You win, Sweet Rebunky <3

  • rebunky
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Hey BB! It is so great to “see“ you again! I was shocked my brain actually worked for once and your name popped in my head.

    Grady’s house is quite the challenge, and I look forward to seeing what you can come up with.

    I started playing a little bit too, while waiting to see Grady’s tentative ideas.

    Mostly I had just put the two layout halves together like you did, and started deleting walls, adding walls and trying to move the kitchen out of the front entry even though Grady really wants it to stay there.

    I was trying to add the kitchen in the top right corner where the Library is and the dining table in the large bay at the top of the plan.

    You know, I am sure Grady has a $ tree growing in the yard and knocking down walls won’t make the roof cave in or anything! 🤪

  • Grady Owens
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @drblount10 I don't have many pictures of it because the space is just so awkward at the moment, but I'll share the few I haven't already shared.




    This last one is inside the little laundry "closet", since it's technically also part of the same space.

    My original thought was to relocate the kitchen to the area currently labeled as "Library"; this space is a bedroom in the strictly legal sense (as in, you can rent it legally as a bedroom in this state), but it was clearly originally intended to be a library by the folks who built it. (It was, in fact, billed as a bedroom when I bought it.) This allows direct access to the backyard, and does bring with it the opportunity for more windows. Aside from running plumbing under the foundation, which in and of itself would be an astronomical cost and could compromise the whole structure the way the foundation's been added onto, this still has a challenge of placement and flow; for example, I do love the idea of having a library space, and the current location of the dining room--the most logical place to re-locate it--is on the south side of the house, meaning sunlight would become a serious issue. (New Mexico, in addition to being desert, is high in elevation, meaning UV radiation and subsequent damage is a serious concern here.)

    @sheloveslayouts North is to the right in that plan. Parking is on the east side, which is the front of the house. There is no garage. North-facing rooms are actually preferred in this climate, certainly during the summer; west isn't a HUGE problem, as there's a large mountain to the west. There is no garage, and the lot is only about an eighth of an acre, so the sides of the property are about five feet from the house on both sides. This house was part of a subdivision built in the late '50s and early '60s, and many of the houses have been built onto in this manner.

    @skynina Yep, a bright-red kitchen sink! I genuinely love it, and fully intend to work it into whatever plans the kitchen will have. :P The total square footage is on the order of 2200 square feet.

    @rebunky Funkadelia is certainly playing a large role in my future plans for the space, so, you're more than welcome to call it that. XD

    And, having updated my planning software, I've discovered the magic of RAY TRACING. So, here, have my current thoughts on the front space:







    Approaching the front portico, the door / window arrangement has been shifted slightly; in place of the current sliding window will be a picture window, the frame of which, coupled with the front door itself, will center within the portico, rather than the current lopsided situation.

    Entering the house, yes, you're greeted with a kitchen, but without the walls in place, the space feels inviting. The tile presently on the counters in the current kitchen will be used to form backsplashes, with the counters themselves replaced with a quartz material. (I'm not sure I'll use the same color as the bar's counter throughout the space; I might delegate that to the bar and its separate bar-height counter, which you can see behind the stove, and have the counters in the kitchen a lighter color, perhaps more blue or teal. I feel with all the wood tones and the red in the floor, we need to bring in a bunch of cooler colors, balance it out a bit.)

    The step-up into the dining room is more sharply defined separately from the entrance by a MCM-style divider, so the approach is more kitchen-oriented. This also helps direct traffic flow to the right, toward the coat closet (the right-most of the two doors on that wall) and around the island. This divider is just a stand-in; I've not decided on what I really want to do with that, but this presents the idea. The step-up space is then itself lit with a small paper lantern, I'm thinking like a saucer lamp kind of thing.

    Then, within the dining room, a wall of floor-to-ceiling picture windows opens up onto a bed of black hollyhocks, letting in a heaping helping of morning sun (this is on the east side) for help waking up, as well as helping brighten the kitchen through the large doorway in front; however, these can also be closed with a series of zebra-style roller blinds, both for privacy and light concerns. A set of tulip chairs flanks a tulip table, with a Sputnik-style chandelier illuminating the space.

    One thing about these renders, because the sun is present, the rooms look *extremely* dark, but they genuinely aren't; this is just the software light-balancing the specific views. The quarry tile has been extended throughout the kitchen area, and the arabesque saltillo tile in the dining room will be remaining, as will the rich wood tongue-in-groove on the walls, a detail extended into the little step-up space to tie it into the kitchen too.

  • drblount10
    last year

    Thanks for sharing, Grady! I was wondering about an L shaped eat in kitchen where sink side cabinets would stay, and the other side would come down, with cabinets on the left side. This is in 1 of your mock ups.  Another option would be to make the entire bar space a U shaped kitchen, with cabinets around, and dining in the rec room by its entrance. This is if you leave the sink wall of cabinets in place. Houzzers: what is involved in moving electrical outlets like the stove? Is this stove electric or gas?

    I think you are right about these challenging additions. Looks like people could not afford removing load bearing walls or widening doorways. Do a bunch of walk throughs between the front of the house and straight to the back. Are doorways too narrow? Is there anything that redirects you away from the back of the house?

  • sheloveslayouts
    last year

    Has a structural engineer evaluated this property?


    We went through a similar situation with our current home. From the 1850s through the 1950s our house had at least three very janky additions. Most people considered it a tear down. We did a lot of dreaming and demoing, but the project didn't solidly start to fall into place until the structural engineer gave us a detailed report and our project constraints were clearly established.


    If you haven't consulted with a certified structural engineer, you need to stop everything and get one on site ASAP. It is truly the best money we spent on our project.

  • skynina
    last year

    I found that thread about the secret room that went through an amazing transformation. I feel like you have a grand vision like this guy did.

    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3910940/secret-60x5-ft-room-discovered-what-to-do#n=307

    Before:

    After:

    Before:

    After:

    Before:

    After, but not quite finished seating nook:


  • Grady Owens
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Okay so I've been doing some thinking, and just, hear me out.






  • sheloveslayouts
    last year

    Ive seriously been where you are. 2013. My husband is a software engineer so so we went on a sketch up tangent. In retrospect it was neato and fun, but a total waste of time. step away from software renderings for a bit. they dont show important stuff like how traffic flows, how rooms relate to each other, if structural standards are met, etc. if you want help here yiu need to post the as-built 2-d with your plans in 2-d.

  • sheloveslayouts
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Okay, Grady. I've been thinking about what you could do to make more sense of this crazy house without totally breaking the bank. Here are some ideas.

    Going from front to back. Red lines represent the closing up of wall openings. Green represents new doorways...

    Close up the dining room/kitchen door and add a door from the entrance to create an office/ 4th bedroom

    Close up the opening that is currently above the kitchen sink. And place something beautiful and welcoming on the wall.

    Install a front door with the hinge on the office side, so it opens toward the direction you want to go - down the hall to the living space.

    Turn the kitchen into your utility room assuming you can use the kitchen sink plumbing for a utility sink and a washing machine. And hoping you can move your water heater, furnace and such there without significant cost.

    Turn the weird laundry/bar room into your kitchen. Assuming the gas for the range can route to the other side of the wall and the kitchen sink can be plumbed in where the utility sink is.

    Close up the door to the master suite and install double doors between the bedroom and the conversation pit.

    Eliminate the spaces labeled "utility room"

    Eliminate the door in the middle of the dining/library wall. add a cased opening at the front door end of the wall.

    If the structure allows, remove as many of the library interior wall as possible.

    I hope this is helpful and sparks more ideas to make your home as functional as possible.



  • decoenthusiaste
    last year

    It seems to me that many homes in Australia keep the living area in the back where there is access to a private garden, and the bedrooms are in the front. I see where the hall and bar serve as the passage to the dining/living area and maybe a garden behind the house. I would not want to lose that flow through or steer people through the kitchen to get to the living area as in some of the renditions posted.

  • decoenthusiaste
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I like your idea of putting the kitchen in the front. I did not include that in my rough attempts to modify other areas. I've shown items to be removed or relocated in black. Doors to be closed up in red and new doors in blue (all in master.) Room usage is in blue and entails adding a powder room in the closet behind the laundry so the plumbing can be accessed and the library/media room or whatever it becomes has a place to go without circumnavigating through the living and dining rooms to get to the toilet. The bar I changed to the dining room because the dining room in the front of the house is also a long roundabout trip for guests from the living room. Removing the wet bar and that short portion of wall will open the view from the hall through to the living space. I suggest some sky lights for the kitchen and dining room to brighten up more interior spaces. The office moves to the front room. Access will have to be through the kitchen. If you meet clients there, devise client access form the exterior side of the house. You might also want to put a door to the master bath in the office if there is open space on the bath wall so you don't have such a long trip to the toilet either.

  • skynina
    last year

    Another option...since the bar area seems larger than the kitchen and you don't want guests entering into the kitchen, maybe move the kitchen to the bar area and orient the peninsula so stools are in the now larger entry area. I expanded the entry closet into the current pantry, added a pantry in the new kitchen and added a buffet type feature in the entry. If you still want a bar, that can go in the huge living room area.


  • skynina
    last year

    The buffet…you could put a chair next to it, so you have a place to sit to put shoes on. You could also create a nice vignette with a chair on each side of the buffet and a mirror above it.

  • skynina
    last year

    Another, if you want the island...you could put the fridge across from the sink, but I prefer an expanse of counter space. I extended the wall by the dining room a tad, but you might decide it's not worth the expense for two feet more of counter. I understand if these plans are not taking into account the flooring challenges.


  • mnmamax3
    last year

    This is all fascinating to watch unfold. I agree with others that you should figure out what you can do, before deciding what you want to do.


    With the utility area adjacent to the library, there should be some plumbing/electrical over in that area of the house and it feels like a real possibility to move the library to the existing dining room, keeping that as a library/bedroom space, and using the library/hall space as a kitchen. Then you could move the eating table to the space before the current fireplace. Perhaps with a wooden decorative divider between it and the main LR space. The existing entry and kitchen would become your entry foyer.

  • skynina
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Another option...the sink and DW banks would be open. The part to the left of the sink when looking at graphic could be floor to ceiling storage or counter with upper & lower cabinets. You could put the fridge there, but would be a pain for someone going in and out of the DR if the fridge door is open. I put your original pantry back and gave you a coffee station (or small bar) next to fridge. Stools might make it tight, but are an option.


  • drblount10
    last year

    Happy New Year? Any decisions or updates?