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ingrid_vc

Please Show Us Your Rarest Roses

We don't necessarily discuss them that often since they may not be the most spectacular or floriferous roses in our garden, but I for one would love to see what many of you may have hiding out in your gardens. They may be roses that haven't been offered for years in nurseries or a rose that's been passed on to you be another rose lover. I have a few relatively obscure roses but I'd like to see yours first, please!

Comments (77)

  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 months ago

    I think I have already shared these pictures here but I love this rose so much. Anyone who has room for a house eater should have this one. It did so amazing even after the deer ate it!

  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 months ago

    Oops, forgot pics





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  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 months ago

    And name…..sheesh im a mess today!

    Arcata Pink Globe

  • jacqueline9CA
    2 months ago

    In the comment below (I hope) are pics of what is thought to be the REAL 'Bloomfield Abundance'. (as most of you know, Spray Cecile Brunner has been in commerce for decades - and still is in some places, as BA, but was ID's by DNA).


    Jackie

  • jacqueline9CA
    2 months ago

    Pics for above:









  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 months ago

    Since I love Grandmother’s Hat and Tina Marie is my name that is one I covet. I also wouldn’t shake a stick at Larry!

  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago

    Part 1: Having lived within visiting distance of Vintage Roses during its heyday (and it was near my mother's house!), I still have a number of varieties that disappeared from commerce when they closed, along with some others picked up elsewhere, here and there:

    'Apricot Glow' no longer for sale in the U.S., excellent, easy once-bloomer (over a month) that is scented of apples; wonderful orange hips in winter, except that the %#$% squirrels have figured out they are good to eat and are out there even now destroying them)



    'Kathrinerl' Never made it into commerce, perhaps due to susceptibility to blackspot, but that's not an issue here and I love it, love it, love it ('Gruss an Teplitz' x 'Bonica'). The folding of the blooms reminds me of origami.




    Like @erasmus_gw and @oursteelers 8B PNW, I have "Hoag House Cream", which was found in the yard of the oldest house in Santa Rosa, CA, where I grew up. It doesn't go "flat" here -- pretty much always perfect form-- and withstands 100F+ days like nothing happened; talk about "substance". The shrub is nothing to write home about (leggy, thorny), but those flowers!



    'Sappho', an Alba no longer in commerce in the U.S.. Again, exquisite, sculpted petals:



    "Keith's Bourbon-Noisette" (not on HMF yet), a found rose from Santa Cruz, CA that is also at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. Still a young plant here, color changeable with weather.

    April:

    October:




  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 months ago

    Oh. My.

    That Apricot Glow is everything you could want a climber!

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I can't express how wonderful it is to see these rare beauties. Here is yet one more, Duchess of Albany, a sport of La France.



  • berrypiez6b
    2 months ago

    This is like the old days of Rose Forum on gardenweb.

    ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked berrypiez6b
  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago

    Part 2. Next, "Merete Stenboch", an Italian found tea, not for sale in the U.S. I think Vintage brought it over when they imported that batch of European roses around 2012 and I picked it up off a Friends of Vintage sales table at the Celebration of Old Roses. It has all the good attributes of tea roses. Having no space, I am growing it as a "climber" against a fence, whiich it is doing rather well.



    'Rose du Roi' (of commerce) -- Vintage's version. Heaven only knows what this "really" is, but it is delightful and now that Vintage is closed.... blooms are generally 3 - 4" diameter.



    "St. Helena Cemetery Very Double HT" Another locally found rose and not in commerce. Mine iis still young (from a Friends of Vintage sale last year), but it's grown well its first year in the ground and the blooms are becoming more developed and larger, compared to this photo when it was in a pot:



    'Aimee Vibert' itself (the 20' version) isn't rare, but this compact sport from Vintage now is. It has remained at approximately 4' x 4' for something like 15 years now and nearly always in bloom, like a lot of noisettes are (just took this photo):




  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    2 months ago


    At this point, I have no feel for what of my roses are rare. There are times when I think all the once-bloomers, and one or two of the repeaters are.

    I'll start with the rose I *know* is truly rare, Pax Apollo. So of course it is in one of the toughest spots in my garden.

    Karl Forster. I got it from Pickering. I have no idea if anyone carries it now.

    Juno. I consider this a prima donna.


  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    And lastly, part 3 (getting carried away here, but it's so nice to give these varieties some "pr", as they really are nice roses, just not popular or widely available).

    "Phil Edinger's Noisette", a found rose similar to 'Alister Stella Gray' but not it (I have them growing literally side-by-side), not in commerce in the U.S. any more.



    Photos from another thread of 2 more found, not-in-commerce varieties:

    "Zalud House Shingled Raspberry"



    "Marlowe Soft Orange"



    'Geranium Red' I only have 3 floribundas and this 1947 Gene Boerner variety is one of them. Not strictly rare, maybe, but not often mentioned. Its huge scent seems to have large amounts of geraniol (appropriately!) and is like catnip to me.



    Another of the 3 floribundas, 'Poulsen's Yellow', one of the earliest ones and, according to the Vintage catalog at least, was one of their most-requested roses. Despite what is says on HMF, not commercially available anymore, it seems.



    No photos for these yet because I just got them last year:

    'Dr. E. M. Mills' (from Friends of Vintage Roses, but Burlington also has), which I am just getting to know. It does repeat here and seems very vigorous; nice leaves.

    "North Bloomfield Raspberry" (from Burlington), another locally found rose, hybrid Setigera, which I first saw at the Old Cemetery in Sacramento.

  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago

    @oursteelers 8B PNW, 'Apricot Glow' is just about everything as a climber, so reliable and bountiful with so little work. Very thorny, but, paradoxically, rather mannerly; doesn't require the epic struggles that other, endlessly rampant climbers ('Mme Alfred Carreiere, I'm looking at you) need to maintain some semblence of control.

  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Lookimg at those photos of 'Dawn Crest', I'm thinking it's going to have to come live with me, too -- do my "part" to make it less rare.

  • susan9santabarbara
    2 months ago

    catspa, Geranium Red is indeed out of commerce, so if you can, make cuttings of it and spread it around. I have found it to be pretty easy to root. I'm not sure about the (perhaps apocryphal?) desription of it smelling like geraniums (it doesn't), but it smells great and blooms like crazy. One of mine is own-root, and one is grafted. The weird thing is that my data base says that one came from Vintage, and one from ARE, both own-root nurseries. But I know one is grafted b/c it constantly throws up canes from the rootstock. Go figure!

  • rosaprimula
    2 months ago

    Yep, Dawn Crest is an absolute sweetheart of a rose. That Aimee Vibert has very different buds to mine, Jackie. Usually one of the most recognisable aspects - tiny round red clusters - always seems incredible that they open into such white petaliforous lushness.

  • erasmus_gw
    2 months ago

    I used to have a Geranium but it was a single and got a lot of blackspot. Your fragrant one looks good. I especially like the Ralph Moore orange and yellow hybrid, Marlow's Soft Orange, Apricot Glow and St. Helena cemetery rose. I have wanted Zalud House Shingled Raspberry for a long time.

    Here's Angel's Camp Tea...it used to be a good plant here but was eventually killed by repeated cold winters :





    Peppermint China...has lots of tiny blooms




    Duke of York...I don't hear much about it here




  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    erasmus, Angel's Camp Tea is so, so lovely, a rose I had for a brief period long ago. Duke of York is another rose that surely deserves to be grown more, assuming it's still available. These older roses have an elusive charm and character that the yet-newest varieties, that look a lot like the ones paraded out the year before and the year before that, somehow lack.


    Mrs. Woods Lavender Pink Noisette



  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago

    @susan9santabarbara, 'Geranium Red' definitely smells of geraniums to me, but we certainly all have different capabilities and/or impressions when it comes to scent. HMF mentions that it smells of geraniums and spice; the compound geraniol is, in fact, a significant component of rose oil. I am glad to hear it roots fairly easily and I will definitely try striking some cuttings -- HMF mentions that it makes a good potted plant, which I can believe. Vintage didn't graft, but neither does ARE. Did you happen to plant the sprouting plant where another rose previously grew? I get respouts from the roots of roses that have been removed from a particular spot, to a surprising extent and sometimes as much as a year or two later: 'Ivory Triumph' (another rare one I forgot to mention!), 'Lady Hillingdon' (in fact, my current plant of 'Lady Hillingdon' originated that way), and 'Reine des Violettes' (ripped it out 5 times and it's still there and quite a nice bush, actually, after I threw in the towel on trying to get rid of it), to name just a few.

  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    @jerijen "Tina Marie" is a rose I tried to get from Vintage, too, and never managed to make the connection when it was there. I will be keeping an eye out for it at various events!

  • Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b)
    2 months ago

    So glad to see all these beauties here! I started growing roses 4 years ago so don't have anything rare. But I do want to show you an interesting mini "Arctic Sunrise". It's crystal white, vigorous, super healthy, and a real groundcover rose. It could have thousands buds in flush. My neighbors love it and keep asking me to propagate it.


    This is what it looked like in first year in the ground. My DH call it "little octopus". LOL



    Since it covered too much ground, I tied it to a small ring and here shows the numbers of crazy buds.


  • catspa_zone9sunset14
    2 months ago

    @Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b) What a cute little, floriferous rose! According to HelpMeFind, it's only in 4 gardens and only available from Burlington, so I would say it's rare. Did you get it from Burlington?

  • smithdale1z8pnw
    2 months ago

    I have 3 Arctic Sunrise that I purchased from the old Heirloom Roses 12 years ago. I would call it virtually carefree in my garden. No supplemental watering and they're alongside an old, vigorous Japanese quince.

    I believe Jackie in CA also grows it.

  • susan9santabarbara
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Catspa, we're going to have to agree to disagree about Geranium Red smelling like geraniums! I assume you aren't referring to geranium's flowers, which don't have much of a scent. Zonal geraniums' leaves have a very distinct fragrance, which is what I've always assumed people are referencing. But they don't smell like any rose bloom, nor like Geranium Red's blooms, which have a strong old rose scent (to me). My Martha Washington type leaves have no fragrance. Of course, there are the scented leaf geraniums, which are a whole different story! I have always believed that Gene Boerner named it Geranium Red because its color is that of the classic red geranium, and that someone once said it smelled like geraniums and that got passed along over and over. Sort of like how Peter Beales once said in a book that Madame Isaac Pereire was the most fragrant rose ever, and that got repeated over and over for decades.

    Nope, my two Geranium Reds have lived their entire lives in pots for 19 & 21 years, so there is no possibility of the roots being from something else. The rootstock is clearly coming from one Geranium Red. The most likely possibility I can think of is that I wrote ARE instead of Arena on my rose database. I can't confirm that for sure, but today I found some old Arena catalogs from 1999 and beyond that have Geranium Red, so it seems likely :-D

  • susan9santabarbara
    2 months ago

    Ingrid, I took my friend on a rose road trip to the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden in 2003 or 04, and she fell in love with many roses (all OGRs), which she eventually got with my help. But particularly Mrs. Woods Lavender Pink Noisette, which I got for her from Uncommon Roses (Paul Barden). Especially sweet since she is, in fact, a Mrs. Woods :-D

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    What a wonderful thing to do, Susan, and probably more life-enhancing than almost anything else you could have done. In the late nineties I haunted every rose garden I could find in the greater Sacramento/San Francisco area, and it was in the UC Berkeley rose garden that I fell irretrievably in love when I spotted a large bush of Mutabilis in full bloom. I never lost the passion for roses, especially the old roses, and I hope your friend hasn't either.

  • titian1 10b Sydney
    2 months ago

    How funny you should say that about Mutabilis, Ingrid. I've said here before, I'm sure, that I first saw Mutabilis in the Auckland Botanic Garden in the late 80's, and was stopped in my tracks. It got me hooked on old roses. I planted one this year - a few years ago I lost the one I planted originally here, to a series of events.

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Trish, that is a wonderful coincidence. That we should have been captivated by the same rose, at almost the same time frame, in botanic gardens halfway around the world from each other makes me wonder whether what we think of as coincidence is really some mysterious force that has guided our lives and brought us together on this forum now, decades later. Who can really say?

  • Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b)
    2 months ago

    @catspa_zone9sunset14 & @smithdale1z8pnw, I got mine from Heirloom in 2018 and I believe I purchased their last band. It's very easy to get rooted. I stuck the cuttings into the ground and they all made it.

  • susan9santabarbara
    2 months ago

    Ingrid, the thing I most remember about my friend's reaction to the OGRs at the SJHRG is that she kept throwing her arms up and wide to describe her joy at their size and bounty and glory. She still has her OGR roses at her regular house in Oak View, but since she teaches up here in Goleta, they're renting out their house in Oak View and renting one here... she did the commute for too long. She also likes moderns. She came by a couple of months ago to pick something up, and looked over at a blooming rose and said "Intrigue?". Bingo. But her true love is OGRs.

    ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked susan9santabarbara
  • sautesmom Sacramento
    2 months ago

    My 2 rarest:

    Cherry Brandy, a European cut rose I rooted from grocery store roses.

    and

    Mother's Rose, JACmpiad, a Jackson Perkins test rose from 20 years ago. I've only heard of one other person who had it. They classify it as tall but for me it's a climber.

    Carla in Sac

  • rosecanadian
    2 months ago

    Ingrid, I love your Souvenir du President Carnot! What a beautiful bouquet it makes. :)


    Jeri - your Carolyn Supinger is incredibly beautiful!!! Oh my!!


    Catspa - good gloriosa!! Your climber is perfection!!! SWOON! Marlowe, Geranium Red and Zalud House Shingled Raspberry blew me away!

  • jacqueline9CA
    2 months ago

    Catspa - to encourage your thought about grwoing Dawn Crest, here are some more pictures of mine:

    Jackie













  • DC Zone 6b Atlantic Canada
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    @erasmus_gw, that peppermint china is incredible! It looks more like a clematis than a rose! Do you have any other photos of it?


    Edit: accidentally posted before I was done

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I don't believe this is a rare rose but it's one that I don't recall ever having seen here. It's such a lovely thing, although rather thorny as I recall. Even so if water were not an issue it's one I'd love to have again for its delicate old rose look. This is Alfred de Dalmas, a moss rose, bred by Jean Laffay in 1855.




  • titian1 10b Sydney
    2 months ago

    It's a rose I had briefly here, a while ago, Ingrid. I don't remember why I pulled it out. It's a very pretty pale pink and I liked the mossing. Just as well it's not criminal to murder roses or I'd be sentenced to life at best. A number of old rose sellers have closed here and those that are still operating have reduced the variety of old roses that they sell.

    I'm going to see if I have the old passport that will tell me exactly when I was in New Zealand and saw Mutabilis. It must have been '89 or so.

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Alas, I did the same thing, Trish, the poor thing barely got to be a teenager before I removed (murdered) it. If only we could do it over, with the same conditions, before climate change. I'm going to stipulate that when I pass over that great divide I be allowed to do have a rose garden again, with mostly old roses and reblooming irises, and hopefully much more wisdom so I won't muck it all up again.



  • Paul Barden
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago



    This is 'Roundelay', bred by Herb Swim, introduced in 1954. ('Charlotte Armstrong' X 'Floradora', the exact same cross that gave Swim 'Queen Elizabeth' three years earlier)

    It struggles to keep going in my climate (and with zero care) but survive it does. Its an unusual color: deep velvet red as in the photo, but often with a chalky near-black overlay that reads as a kind of dirty orange-black-red color. (Not entirely pleasant coloring). This is a rose that looks its best if picked at the half-open stage and taken inside, where it opens a remarkable, nuanced garnet red color. It is described as having a moderate fragrance, but I have not detected anything but a faint "modern rose" scent that is barely a fragrance.

    I like the rose, and its a testament to its strength that its one of VERY few HT's that have survived the past 12 years of "no fungicide, no supplemental water in the summer". I got this rose from Barbara Oliva many years ago. She'd rooted a few cuttings of it by sticking them in Oasis cubes and putting them in gallon sandwich bags! (I've never tried that, but I should)

    'Roundelay' is no longer in commerce, but its listed on UC Davis's site as one of their "virus free source" plants.

  • jacqueline9CA
    2 months ago

    Feilo & catspa & smithdale - re Arctic Sunrise. I meant to respond sooner, but I just now have (I hope figured out how to post pics again). I got mine from Heirloom also - well over 30 years ago. It is planted way out by the street, with a raspberry colored rose which has exactly the same growth habit and size of bloom (no idea how I did that, as I knew NOTHING about what I was doing). I am sorry it has become "rare" - it is a fabulous rose here. It gets some water during our totally dry summers, but not much else. I will try to post a pic in the next Comment, as that is the only way I have found that works.

    Jackie

  • jacqueline9CA
    2 months ago

    Here is the pic of AS and its friend:


    Jackie




  • erasmus_gw
    2 months ago

    DC Zone,

    Here's another pic of Peppermint China. For me it's a low growing plant, about 2 1/2 feet tall but nicely branchy and wide. The pic I posted was skewed towards blue shades...someone tinkered with my camera at the time and I didn't know for awhile how to get it back to truer colors.





    Here's another pink with even tinier blooms that I don't see here much at all: Petite Pink Scotch.

    I've had one in a pot for many years but also put one in the ground in a terrible dry spot and it is thriving. Can make a little thicket. Ends of canes can root in air if it's rainy enough. It's a once bloomer but so cute, with leaves about the size of a grain of popcorn.




    I don't hear much about Pink Soupert here. Got that one from Alana. It is getting better all the time....it's really pretty.




    Park Jewell



    Madame Lierval ...given to me by Susan, poorbutroserich this plant is coming into its own after some time, and reminds me a bit of Madame Isaac



    Rene d'Anjou, repeating moss, bs prone but that's in part shade





  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Jackie, that street-side planting must be something to see in person. It certainly looks as though you planned it out carefully!


    erasmus, I'm amazed at how many interesting and seldom-seen roses you have. I wouldn't be averse to having any of them except perhaps Park Juwell as it's a once-bloomer. The Chinas are such graceful roses by which I mean the plants themselves, which so often can't be said of some of the modern ones where the flower is deemed to be the most important part. For a cottage garden, which I long to have again, the plant as a whole should be worthy, although one can pop in a few smaller roses that have spectacular flowers, such as Yves Piaget, where neighboring roses can hide or minimize skinny knees.

  • erasmus_gw
    2 months ago

    Ingrid, I share your appreciation of a graceful plant. I got rid of Park Jewell or Parkjuwel due to the thick, thorny canes, and how much room it took up. I'm sorry I got rid of it but I wanted the space.

  • Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b)
    2 months ago

    Jackie, your AS and its friend do look wonderful there. Sometimes we just do things on a whim and the results are pleasing.

  • seasiderooftop
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    New bare-root arrival this morning in the rare bird category: Nigel HawthorneHawthorne (grafted on Laxa).

    Very excited as I had been waiting for this one for months! I hope he will like it out here. All I can say for now is, he's very very thorny!


  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Wow, seaside, that is such a handsome, bushy bareroot, but I see what you mean about the thorns. HMF says this rose blooms only once, is that correct? I have only one rose that thorny, which is an Austin that's also a rugosa hybrid, Wild Edric. It's the only rose still left from my previous rose garden and it's on its last legs. I think the ground squirrels that ate everything else were a little intimidated by the thorns, although some of them were brave enough to climb up and eat the blooms. I'll be very interested to see your rose when it blooms.


    I had one hulthemia hybrid that I loved Eyes For You, although I wonder if mine wasn't actually Simon Robinson x Eyes For You, as it was much more white than purple.



  • seasiderooftop
    2 months ago

    Yes Ingrid, Nigel is a once-bloomer. He'll be the only one in my garden. 

    I avoid them because we get big storms in spring that can compromise the spring flush, but I made an exception for him because he's such a tiny plant, and in my view, such a special hybridizing achievement being the only rugosa/hulthemia hybrid so far. Both rugosas and hulthemias do very well here so I think he might too. I will definitely be posting pictures when he blooms!

    I have Wild Edric and like you mine is barely alive, only one cane really after he endured severe summer damage (intruders). I hope both of our WE's will end up thriving! WE is such a gorgeous rugosa, and the scent is wonderful! I'm glad to hear you were able to keep yours.

    Your EfY looks perfect! Mine is very variable in color, depending on the time of year the eye can be more or less strong and lean more purple or pink. Even the white part can be more cream or even lilac. So I'd say yours was plausibly the real one!

  • bellegallica9a
    2 months ago

    I remember those pictures of Alfred de Dalmas, Ingrid. I tried to get one of my own after seeing them, but both Burlington and RVR were out of stock. I tried Rene d' Anjou, instead, but so far it's very unhappy here. Maybe Alfred would be better, and I could try, but I have a feeling the Mosses are not a good choice for my climate.