Sorry to further hi-jack the subject-line of this thread. But the 'pissing contest' seems to have overtaken courtesy. When I do a google search on my REAL NAME [not forum moniker] I get 20,305 'hits'. I know from experience that many of the references to my name are duplicates and even bogus hits. I used to be very active ... my name is on a lawsuit against the CA Board of Ed, which went clear to the U.S. Sup.Ct.[we lost, which is not the same thing as being wrong] I only mention this to mitigate for the silly claim about 763 'hits' for kimmsr's name in connection with money. Which is apropos of nothing. What does it matter if this participant has a 'thing' about not wasting money. How is that different from your 'thing' about holding his views up to ridicule. If we search your name in connection with smarmy, sarcastic references to kimmsr, what will we find? Nice try, but no cigar.

I wish I had your optimism Comettose..... It seems like all the people moving out in this direction think the countryside is a place to do all those things they weren't allowed to do in the city. (loud cars, 4wheelers, fireworks, etc.) Its getting close to impossible for people like you and me to buy country land anymore, since the farmers would rather sell it to developers. Its a real dilemma for them I suppose......sell it to another farmer for $3,000 an acre or to a developer for $20,000/ac. Then the area plan commission and the county commissioners think they are leaving a wonderful legacy by building malls and subdivisions. There is a place 8 miles south of us that was all farmland. 1,700 acres were sold to a developer who is putting in a city. The commissioners who approved this were so proud of themselves. And the people in the small town close to us are so apathetic, no one but me complained. I don't understand how people in neat little towns and rural people can only think in terms of "gee....isn't this great........a Home Depot only 5 miles away now.......and a Starbucks! .......and......." Why did they ever choose to live out here in the first place if they don't mind this "takeover"? The only terms they think of is convenience and having more and more of the same things, only closer. How do you reach those kinds of people? They are so disconnected with nature that it isn't even part of their experience anymore. Then the developers promise to make these huge parks for the masses.(after they've bulldozed the natural landscape). Developers and city officials are also trying to connect all the cities in this region with "rails to trails" paths so people can ride bikes through the countryside and see our "rural heritage". What a joke. Then they talk about building little shops all along these paths, since people "need to eat, and buy souveneirs". I really feel like an alien. No, actually.......I feel like all of them are the aliens! We have a paradise here.......and what are we doing with it?? I understand that the sole purpose of every organism on this planet is to reproduce. That's what its all about. But mankind seems to be doing it in a way that is so much more destructive than the other spieces. I'll get off my soapbox now.

I have a Daphne odora marginata that I planted maybe 20 years ago even though the experts say Daphnes are short-lived and difficult. (My name is Daphne so I had to have one!) It is planted on the west side of my house and now gets very little sun since the pear tree above it has grown so much. I have watered very little the last few years and it is still quite healthy. (I read somewhere that Daphnes die more from overwatering than anything else.) I usually pick a few blooms to bring in the house and they will scent the whole room. Some bearded iris are very fragrant. A friend let me pick a beautiful bouquet of them for my house, and the following day my living room was full of the loveliest, light scent. It took me a while to figure out that the iris were scented, as I had never heard of this before. The iris growers don't care about fragrance, so they don't make mention of it in catalogs. (I got this info from one of the owners of a huge iris nursery. He seemed annoyed that I wads bothering him with a question about fragrance !!!) You'll have to find iris in bloom iin the spring and sniff yourself or get recommendations from other gardeners. Make a note of the variety and then order that type for the following year. I also have a scented camellia (pale pink). The tag said 'fragrant' so I bought it even though I was very sceptical. Since I love camellias, I thought I'd give it a try since I knew I would like the plant, scented or not. I planted it several years ago next to my front steps where it didn't get much sun until it got tall, but now it is over 8' and had a ton of blooms last year. The scent is only noticeable outside when the temperature is warm, but then it is lovely.

I am kind of new to gardening but I do have some roses that did very well through the winter last year. I will give you a list of everything that I had though last winter Kordes Perfecta, it didnt even slow it down, barely any pruning required. I think it was made in Germany so the cold dont bother it. Her Magisty- That one did have a little pruning after the winter but is doing fine Blue girl- It fared about as well as Her Magisty Knock out roses- They are animals lol, they grow FAST and you cant kill them, or I havent been able to. My dog has even ran through them and broken a few branches off and they keep growing like nothing happened. I have 10 of them and they are a mass of color. I am going to plant the blushing knockout roses this year. You mentioned flower carpet roses, yep they did very well, I didnt loose a one last winter. JP baby blanket tree rose. One of mine did great, the other one, up and died. It had already had leaves and everything and just died. I dont know why or if the winter had anything to do with it. This year I planted a HUGE amount of hybrid teas and Grandiflora roses, and a few English roses. Maybe next spring I can give you a bigger list of what survived the winter.