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david_hollingsworth37

Frigidaire Professional range - lemon?

I don't think I need a question mark to answer that....

Anyway - Frigidaire Professional range, PCFG3078AFB, purchased new. It had to sit in the garage while the kitchen was remodeled, but stayed in the original shipping carton, and looked undamaged on delivery, as well as when the box was opened for installation.


Range and broiler work fine, but the first time we tried to use the oven for baking, we heard a loud POP! then had some smoke. Shut everything off, and called Frigidaire for service.


3 weeks later, an A&E tech comes out, spends a couple hours, and says that several parts had gone bad, and would need to be replaced. He ordered:


Oven Igniter: #316489403 / 5304506545

Control board assembly #5304526197

PC Board / Display #5304518023
Wiring Harness #5304505563



Once the parts arrived, two more A&E techs came (6 weeks later), and spent a couple hours swapping all the parts....no change in operation. Broiler / Range work fine. Baking ignitor will not come on, despite that and other parts being replaced.


Lead tech said that the next step was to order:

Gas Operating Valve #5303210798


Next service date is scheduled for 11/19. (at this point, I've been without a working oven for 2+ months. ) I'm doubtful this fix will work... because if the gas operating valve were not functioning, the broiler and range wouldn't work, right? Gas valves are kind of binary things - they either work, or they don't.


Dealer was an online retailer, so they've shown zero interest in resolving the issue, pushing things off on Frigidaire and A&E, but I'll be trying them again...at least to let them know I'm not happy with the purchase.


For those familiar with this oven....does it make sense at all that the gas control valve would be defective for baking, yet the broiler/range top still work OK?


For anyone familiar with Frigidaire / Electrolux warranties....any advice?


Guess we'll be doing Bob Evans for Thanksgiving....


https://www.bobevans.com/farmhouse-feast



Comments (39)

  • wdccruise
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Nope, all wrong.

    1. Look at the burner diagram here:Diagrams and repair parts for Frigidaire PCFG3078AFA gas range
    2. In the 'Part # / Part Name' field, type "igniter".
    3. Note the part number of the "Range Broil Igniter". That's the part number you listed above as the Oven Igniter.
    4. The "Bake Igniter" has a different part number. The technician replaced the broiler igniter instead of the oven (aka bake) igniter which is what may have been needed.


    "if the gas operating valve were not functioning, the broiler and range wouldn't work, right?"

    Nope.

    1. The cooktop burners each have their own valves (#2A-#2D in the diagram).
    2. The oven and broiler are both regulated by the gas valve (5303210798; #17 in the diagram) which is what the technicians want to replace now.


    Since the broiler works, I will presume that the gas valve which controls both it and the oven is working fine. The technicians replaced the boiler igniter instead of the oven igniter. My conclusion is that there was nothing wrong with any of the parts that were and will be replaced and the part that DOES need to be replaced is the oven igniter (5304508786; #19).


    5304508786 has been replaced by 316489403. You can buy a replacement for $23 on Amazon and install it yourself (example youtube video).


    -- amateur

  • dadoes
    2 months ago

    The valve assembly of question has one input port, two output ports, presumably bake and broil burners. There are two sets of wire terminals so there presumably are separate solenoids within the valve assembly for bake and broil (also separate igniters for each which are on your list of items for the first repair incident). Gas is fed to the cooktop burners via a different route, apparently directly from the pressure regulator. The regulator also feeds to the input port on the oven "gas operating valve" of question.

    You can reference breakdown diagrams by searching the model number at online parts sources (some have diagrams, some don't).

    David Hollingsworth thanked dadoes
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  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Thanks, that makes sense - the incoming gas valve / pressure regulator has one input / two outputs (one for range, one for bake / broiler).



    The defective / to be replaced valve is also one input / two outputs (incoming gas vs bake / broiler).



    On the diagram, I've labeled all the relevant parts, with the defective one in orange. If it has separate solenoids for broiler / oven, then swapping SHOULD fix the problem, but at this point, I'm worried what else is wrong with this oven.


  • dadoes
    2 months ago

    The pressure regulator could be suspect but isn't an electrical device so reasonably shouldn't be affected by the apparently-electrical failure that resulted in the pop/smoke incident.

    David Hollingsworth thanked dadoes
  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    As much smoke as we got, I'm surprised that the control valve didn't get blackened by the initial incident. That would have made the source easier to find. We'll see if this part fixes it - at that point, it will have been $1200 in parts replacement (MSRP) - nearly half the cost of a new oven.

  • wdccruise
    2 months ago

    "As much smoke as we got, I'm surprised that the control valve didn't get blackened by the initial incident."

    That's because it's probably not the valve.

    "it will have been $1200 in parts replacement (MSRP) - nearly half the cost of a new oven."

    Yup and they've replaced parts -- and will continue to do so -- that have nothing to do with the problem.

    If the part numbers you listed above are correct, the techs replaced the broiler igniter. As I wrote above, I think the problem is with the oven igniter that wasn't replaced.

    -- amateur

    David Hollingsworth thanked wdccruise
  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    If the part numbers you listed above are correct, the techs replaced the broiler igniter. As I wrote above, I think the problem is with the oven igniter that wasn't replaced.



    Both broiler and oven igniter parts #'s are listed. 316489403 is the oven one, and 5304506545 is the broiler - they're identical, except for the cord length, which likely means they're interchangeable depending on the oven design. The one they swapped has the longer cord, so I assume that's 316489403 (oven). Neither one works, so not the source of the problem.


    5304506545


    316489403


    The original control board was toast, as you can see from the burn mark on the LH side. Question is - what else broke - hopefully it's the solenoid inside the gas control valve....I'd like to get this fixed before Thanksgiving.




  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    PRO

    Verbo

    2 minutes ago

    Well, it IS a Frigidaire. 🤷🏾‍♀️

    The other Electrolux/Frigidaire stuff I've got or owned previously have been pretty reliable, and the GE/Whirlpool/Maytag/Kenmore ones have too - at least they've been serviceable when something has broken. This oven seems to be the outlier.

  • dadoes
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Frigidaire major appliances was owned by General Motors (the automobile company) from 1919 until the division was sold to White Consolidated Industries (WCI) in 1979, which had also obtained several other appliance brands such as Kelvinator, Philco, Gibson, Tappan, and Westinghouse. WCI was sold to Electrolux (based in Sweden) in 1986.

    The parts listed above total $907 (including shipping $9.99 but not sales tax) at a particular online source I often use, although there are other sources that'd possibly be less for some items. Is it being serviced under warranty? If so, then the prices of the parts are of no consequence.

    Warranty service nowadays is typically provided through the manufacturer, not the retailer ... particularly an online retailer who is unlikely to have a service fleet vs. a local independent retailer which may and be authorized as such with the manufacturer. The manufacturer is unlikely to have an in-house service fleet, more likely to contract a nationwide outfit such as A&E.

    Two igniter P/Ns are stated above. Bake and broil were both replaced.

    An online appliance source states the MSRP for the range as $3,049 but has it on sale for $2,423 (with an additional $300 rebate offer). Another source has it for $2,429 with rebates available.

    David Hollingsworth thanked dadoes
  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Thanks for the info. I'm aware of Frigidaire's parentage (old and current), as well as the other major makers. This is a warranty service claim, which Fridgidaire is managing through A&E - so I'm not out of pocket for the repairs, just inconvenienced by the down time.


    Hopefully the gas control valve replacement will fix the issue, but it's not clear what failed - the GCV which blew the control board, or a short in the control board which damaged the GCV. I've already told Frigidaire I want it replaced, but I have to wait at least until they try again on 11/19 (if the part arrives).

  • wdccruise
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    "Neither one works, so not the source of the problem."

    Does "one" refer to the two igniters, or the oven and broiler. You wrote that the broiler works.


    "The original control board was toast, as you can see from the burn mark on the LH side."

    The blackened part is just one of three connectors (labeled J6) on the circuit board to which a wire with a compatible connector would have been pushed. It doesn't mean that the control board was "toast" (assuming the board wasn't tested and found to be defective). The connector could have been cleaned up with some emery paper (it's hard to tell from the blurry photo how damaged it was) and the board made reusable.


    David Hollingsworth thanked wdccruise
  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    That's true - it could still very well be OK. There's no way to tell until they've got a working GCV - but the techs that have come out don't have any diagnostic equipment - they're just swapping parts until something works.

  • pigeen
    2 months ago

    What a terrible situation. Even if they can fix it, I would want it replaced. Good luck.

  • wdccruise
    2 months ago

    @pigeen: "Even if they can fix it, I would want it replaced."

    Nope.

    "For one year from your original date of purchase, Electrolux will pay all costs for repairing or replacing any parts of this appliance that prove to be defective in materials or workmanship..." -- Owners Guide

  • pigeen
    2 months ago

    That may be but I would still fight since it was broken out of the box. When my Kitchen Aid dishwasher failed the very first week, I got it replaced. It took a few letters ...

  • wdccruise
    2 months ago

    @pigeen: "When my Kitchen Aid dishwasher failed the very first week, I got it replaced."

    Too late. The questioner explained that he owned the appliance for a long time before it was even installed.

  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Too late. The questioner explained that he owned the appliance for a long time before it was even installed.


    Correct. The online retailer has been unresponsive, other than saying it's a Frigidaire / warranty issue.

  • PRO
    Sabrina Alfin Interiors
    2 months ago

    I hate to say it, but this is one of the downsides of buying online for a cheaper price. That cheaper price basically means you won’t get any customer service. If you filled out the warranty card you might be able to get satisfaction from Frigidaire directly.

    If that doesn’t work, cut your losses, write a scathing review on Frigidaire’s social media channels, and go buy yourself a better range. Take a look at Bosch’s professional series as well as Monogramor Fisher-Paykel for a mid-range price point, or Wolf and Bluestar for at higher price points. Good luck.

    David Hollingsworth thanked Sabrina Alfin Interiors
  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Agreed, but it wasn't just price - buying at the tail end of COVID supply chain, it was trying to find someone that had inventory in our project time frame. One of the local places I used before had no forecast of when they would get that model in, so I ended up going online to meet my project deadline.

  • PRO
    Sabrina Alfin Interiors
    2 months ago

    Fair enough. These have been very weird supply chain years so I don’t blame you. The advice still stands, however.

  • wdccruise
    2 months ago

    @Sabrina Alfin Interiors: "write a scathing review on Frigidaire’s social media channels"

    Why? It's not the manufacturer's fault that the technicians don't do any diagnosis of the problem, just replacing part after part in the hope that something will fix it. You don't blame Toyota of one of its dealers can't figure out how to prevent one of its cars from overheating.

  • SEA SEA
    2 months ago

    Nothing useful to offer you but my condolences. I had two Fridgedaire front load washing machines over the course of 12 years. The first one was a terrible washing maching in that it did a poor job. Our laundry was never clean once we got this washer. As if that wasn't bad enough, it was broken down most of the time. Your 6 week waits for service are what I went through too. Finally, the darn thing blew itself up, sent itself barreling across the room and stopped short of crashing into a vanity, with it's matching dryer strapped to it's top. The innards were turned inside out. I thought for sure, this is the end of this terrible washer. Nope. Like all the other failures with this machine, Fridgedaire/Electrolux kept throwing replacement parts at it, even in this deplorable state. I used to think to myself--wouldn't it cost them less to just replace the appliance then rebuild it many times over?

    Again, the 6 week long wait times for each return service appt. I spent as much money at the laundromat as I would have on a new washing machine during those years. It broke down again within a short timeframe. I had enough. Went to buy a different washer to find out this model was the one that fit through our doorways, so came home with the same washer! %$#& The 2nd Fridgedaire washer was not prone to break downs (this is where 'you could get a lemon, or not get a lemon' comes in). But it washed laundry as bad as the first one did and I was truly embarassed at how filthy our laundry was for the next 8 years.

    To add on, our electric company was pushing hard to give me a free new fridge to lower our electric usage. They were incessant with phone calls, mailings and door knocking. I finally relented and said fine, take away my energy hog fridge and give me your frugal electricity user. It was a Fridgedaire. Sigh. I never knew one could hate a fridge as much as I hate this one. Everything goes rotten in it no matter the temp settings I adjust it too. As I type, something is very rotten in there and I can't find it. Stinking up the whole house. Since the fridge compartment is empty from my complete throw out sessions, it has to be in the freezer (which it can't do well either). I am loathe to go through an entire freezer of carefully curated and prepared foods for future use and trash them all. On the crisper drawers, I wrote "Veggie Hospice" in Sharpie pen since I buy veggies only to have them go rotten upon placement in this Fridgedaire.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is, with Fridgedaire, IMO and IME, once a dud, always a dud. If it was me, I'd sent it away and start over with another brand. Then there are those who did get a properly working appliance and it lives a long and useful life...but once a dud...Wishing you better luck ahead.

  • PRO
    Sabrina Alfin Interiors
    2 months ago

    @wdcruise, scathing review for the lack of service despite a warranty. They should be offering the OP a full replacement, IMO.

  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Latest update:


    A&E Techs came on-site (3rd time). Call was scheduled for between 8AM and 5PM, techs showed at 5:40PM. These guys were methodical, and did a fair amount of troubleshooting....but replacing the Gas Operating Valve (#5303210798) didn't do anything.


    The tech said that the problem has to be in the main wiring harness...and that if I had some spare wire they might be able to splice it, but I declined, since it's under warranty. They said they had to file a report with A&E that they couldn't fix it, and that Frigidaire would take it from there.


    I found these parts on the schematic, but I don't know if either one would be the right one, and there's no need (or reason) for me to have to know this - it just needs to be fixed.


    Harness, Low Voltage, Gas
    5304523870 Special Order

    Harness, Main, Gas
    5304523894 Special Order


    I spent an hour on the phone with Frigidaire this morning, arguing about replacing the oven, and they just kept repeating that they had to wait for the report from A&E.....so now, I have to keep checking back until Frigidaire says they have the report and decides what to do next. They said they can send another technician out....but not until December 8th.


    I'll be calling again on Monday, but I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and file in small claims court.


  • SEA SEA
    2 months ago

    I think you should put an order in for another stove/range from a different company. At least then you will have an operating stove and you can fight it out with Fridgedaire about your current one.

    Historically, Fridgedaire (IME) will rebuild the same pos 20 times before they will replace the defective appliance.

    I didn't even bring up in my post above about the Fridgedaire dishwasher I used to have that would need a new pump and or motor every 12-18 months until I finally sent it to the trash pile. This dishwasher was under extended warranty for 5 years and then I kept renewing it for several more years and like clock work, it would cease to operate and then the 6 week wait for service. 6 week wait for parts, then rescheduling for the tech to come to my house again. On a first name basis I was with these techs for Fridgedaire appliances. Up to you.

    David Hollingsworth thanked SEA SEA
  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    If the oven didn't cost $2500, I would have replaced it already. I don't want to go off and buy another one...then have Frigidaire tell me they will only send a replacement, and not refund for the original purchase.

  • PRO
    Sabrina Alfin Interiors
    2 months ago

    How did you pay for the range? If you paid by credit card, you might have purchase protection which means your payments vendor will refund you the money. I'd pursue that angle and then put that money toward a new range from a different manufacturer.

    David Hollingsworth thanked Sabrina Alfin Interiors
  • SEA SEA
    2 months ago

    I understand. I felt that way with our Fridgedaire dishwasher. It was *I* who renewed the extended warranty because I was mad at them. They sold me a pos, took my money. I was making a small investment in renewing the extended warranty, but it was they who would pay dearly to repair their pos appliance repeatedly, rather than replace it. Their business plan is less than productive. It would cost them less to replace your stove than throw all these parts and billable labor at it. I do believe that once a lemon, always a lemon with this brand, based on my own frustrating experiences. If you get one that isn't a lemon, things can work out alright. It's not looking like you didn't get a lemon. My sympathies...

    David Hollingsworth thanked SEA SEA
  • wdccruise
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago
    1. Initially you said that the "range and broiler" work fine. The broiler works, correct?
    2. A wiring harness is just a collection of wires and connectors, and can be tested for continuity with volt-ohm meter. Did the technicians do that?
    3. Was the oven igniter ever replaced?


    Why are people commenting on their dishwashers, washing machines, and refrigerators?

  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Sabrina Alfin Interiors

    yesterday

    How did you pay for the range? If you paid by credit card, you might have purchase protection which means your payments vendor will refund you the money. I'd pursue that angle and then put that money toward a new range from a different manufacturer.


    It was paid for by Citibank Visa, which has 'purchase protection' benefits. The warranty benefits start at the expiration of the manufacturer warranty (April of next year), so still have to work through Frigidaire for resolution of this issue (so far). If it fails later than 1 year after the purchase date, the warranty provides 24 additional months of protection, so there's that.


    It covers damage or theft in the first 90 days, so we're outside of that...and also specifically excludes when ' The item is damaged because of a product defect'.


    So, for now, I think I'm stuck escalating within Frigidaire's support chain, which I'll be doing again on Monday. Essentially, I think I have to be noisy enough that they feel they need to resolve it to quiet me down. I'm looking into what social media avenues I have that will be effective that don't sound like someone just whining, as well as just filing a claim in small claims court.


    Normally, Frigidaire/Electrolux leans on a binding arbitration clause, but this would be in small claims (<$5000 in this state), so I can still do that.


    You agree that any dispute or claim arising out of your use of the Services or any products sold through the Service, including any dispute or claim as to the application, enforceability, scope, or interpretation of this agreement to arbitrate, shall be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that you may assert claims in small claims court if your claims qualify. The Federal Arbitration Act and federal arbitration law apply to this agreement.


    Thankfully, this was already purchased. Citi is ending the extended warranty benefit for new purchases starting January 22, 2023.


    https://thepointsguy.com/news/citi-costco-credit-card-extended-warranty/



  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Latest update:


    TL/DR: They've deemed the unit 'unrepairable', and are putting me in the process for a replacement. Details below.


    1/21/22

    Contacted Frigidaire to get update. On hold for 35 minutes before pickup.

    Put on hold again while they research. Reported that they still don’t have the report, and have to wait 2-3 business days to get it.


    11/23/22

    Contacted Frigidaire to get update. Held for 25 minutes. They said they have received the report from the technician, deeming the unit unrepairable. I asked what the next step was, and they said that they are waiting for a report from the master technician before they can take action, and that I would need to contact A&E.


    Contacted A&E. Gave information on service order and unit #. When they went to ‘research’ the issue, the call was dropped.


    Contacted A&E again. Gave information on service order and unit #. When they went to ‘research’ the issue, the call was dropped again.


    Contacted A&E. Gave information on service order and unit #. Put on hold while they researched the issue. Said that they normally didn’t send out reports from a. Master technician. They would request one, and it should be sent within 24-48 hours. I asked to get an email copy of the service history, and they tried to verify my email address as one that they had mis-spelled previously, and not corrected when I gave them the right one. Gave it again.



  • SEA SEA
    2 months ago

    Progress.

    Hoping you have a back up stove or plug in oven in the meantime.

    Wishing you the best of luck.

    Funny how calls get dropped and email addresses are misspelled. Wink.

    Thanks for the update.


    David Hollingsworth thanked SEA SEA
  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Range top and broiler work. I've got an air fryer and microwave, so nobody's starving. Tomorrow, we're going out for Thanksgiving dinner. These are first-world problems, but hopefully this one will be resolved soon.

  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    A bit bemused by the latest update. Contacted Frigidaire to get an update on the replacement. The rep said they didn't have the report from A&E, and they couldn't do anything other than send another (the 4th) technician out to verify the work of the previous 3.


    Asked to escalate to a supervisor - they said they had no record of the master technician's report, and that they couldn't do anything without it. I asked them to send me an email copy of the service history - they said there was no way to send an email to a customer (despite having a copy of my email address). When I said that was unacceptable, and asked them to read it off to me so I could write it down, they eventually hung up.


    I called back and got a different rep. I asked them to list the service history starting from the initial call on 9/26, and they gave me the individual dates of all the interactions (9/26,10/30,11/7, 11/18, 11/21, 11/23 and today, 11/26). I asked them what I needed to do to resolve the issue, and after they put me on hold for a few minutes, came back and magically said that it had been approved for replacement, verified my email and phone #, the dealer name, and gave me a reference # for the swap, saying that the dealer would be in touch with me within 5-7 business days. They also said that they would call me personally to follow up (the call center location is 11 hours ahead, so we'll see). They then asked if I would wait on the line to do a brief survey and that "5" is the preferred rating.


    Then the call dropped.


    I'm optimistic that this has, in fact, been approved, and will get swapped, but just in case, I filled out a small claims court application with my legal plan. I can always cancel it if Frigidaire actually follows through.

  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    last month

    Just got an email from Electrolux (actually a logistics company sub-contracted by them)...that a delivery date is being set. Crossing fingers.


  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Day #85 of the Oven Hostage Crisis.

    Electrolux finally delivered and installed the replacement unit. That's the good news. In other news...

    Installer said that all the problems were caused by a under sized gas supply hose. The one he replaced it with was larger in diameter, and all burners worked.*


    * I'm not a trained appliance repair guy, but I'm calling shenanigans on that one. While I think it's technically possible that an under-sized gas line could cause an issue....I don't think it would allow the top burners to fully light, the broiler to light...but not the oven. I still think that problem was in the main wiring harness due to a short of some kind...that's what killed the main control board in the first place.





    The oven temp control knob just spun in place - installer said there was nothing he could do, and had me sign for the delivery - I noted on the form that the knob was shipped broken, and would need repair. I'm on hold with Frigidaire for ANOTHER warranty repair. The part itself is about $80, and I can install it myself, but I'm going to make them do it, just on principle.

    My air fryer is getting a lot of work these days.

  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    last month

    Called Frigidaire....and after holding for 40 minutes, the call center rep insisted that the part wasn't covered under warranty since it was more than 6 months old. I'm not sure where they got that info, because the warranty clearly says 12 months, parts and labor, and the part was non-functional on delivery, so after pushing back, they are sending a repair person out tomorrow 'some time between 8am and 5pm' to diagnose the issue. I already diagnosed it and gave them the specific part #, but my guess is that the person will show up after 5PM, and 'have to order the part', which may take several weeks...yadda, yadda, yadda.


    I'll post after they leave tomorrow.


  • David Hollingsworth
    Original Author
    last month

    As I thought....they didn't have a part in stock - and they'll have to order it. I found it at multiple sources with delivery by Friday....but I've been given the first available date as: Jan 3rd, 2023.

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