I would put the wall oven on the "north" side. DW, 18" countertop, wall oven. I just wouldn't want to shrink that window on the "south" side of the doorway. I'd keep the microwave over by the fridge though. Having a MW near the fridge and the beverage station will be the logical place to use it. Use some of the uppers across from the DW for dish storage. You could even have a wide flatware drawer over there. I've found that dish storage across the aisle from the DW works even better than above it. You aren't trying to reach around the open DW door to put things away.

Thank you. Would you feel the same way if that wall could shrink?

I don't understand that idea. The wall with the sink and DW? Shrink how?

Lordy! Sorry for the confusion. Not the wall - the window! Im forgetting the name but the architect suggested a narrower window.

Ah. Yes, I assumed you would narrow the window. I wouldn't want to do that--I would want the current width. I might be open to shrinking a window if made a big functional gain. But in this case, I don't think having the oven on one side or the other makes a big functional difference.

Gotcha. Once I thought about adding one, the architect placed it right where you said. I had always thought you’d want the wall oven and perhaps microwave next to a fridge - sort of all the stainless steel appliances together. Plus i thought I’d need the counter space more on the dishwasher side. But I see your point!

Oh! I didn't look back at the first picture. You don't have a window there now. I mean, I like windows as big as possible. But adding a smaller window is different than shrinking an existing window. I was thinking you would be giving up light you currently enjoy.

I think I have no opinion now at all. I don't find I need much countertop on the DW side. Probably because our DW is open so often that it's useless as a prep space. But you don't need that much on the fridge side either. Enough to empty platters into left-over containers, or to fill a plate before you put it in the microwave. So maybe your idea to consolidate the stainless in one area is the winning design idea.

Hello Houzzers. An update (disappointing) and so more questions/request for advice. Do I ask here on this old post or learn how to link this thread to a new post?
I

**some more…

Ask here! Add the update in a comment.

Thanks @emilyam819.

Short version - kitchen reno is delayed but will happen and need ideas for increasing storage and prep space. Attached are photos of existing kitchen and sketch interim plan.

You’ll see we hope to add counter to left of stove, move stove down and add another counter with seating. Everything else (walls, fridge, pantry will stay as is).

Anything you would do differently?? Anyway to maximize storage I’m not seeing (wall behind seating?). Anything to make it more aesthetically pleasing??I’m trying to tell myself it’s a quirky vintage 1940’s kitchen that can be so cute - but I’m failing. 🫤

Thanks for any and all ideas.

It’s the area by the stove that needs the help.

Hi Cee Bee!

Waaah, I am bummed to hear the remodel is on hold. You said it will still happen, so do you have any idea how long you will need to put it off?

I think the answer to that question would determine what I would do to improve things temporarily.

My first thought was to DIY a freestanding peninsula with seating overhang. I would be leary of installing anything permanent, especially if it would mess up what looks to be newly finished floors.

Yes, I noticed those! As well as the new stainless appliances!

Regarding the fridge by the back door, are you able to open the doors all the way? Is it possible it could accidentally swing out and bang against that glass door?

Also, is there a reason for closing up the hallway entrance to the bedroom/den and adding the door to the wall behind the peninsula in the new plan?

Hi @rebunky! Totally bummed and maybe a year delay. It’s to focus our budget on other basic things - Hvac system, replacing windows; basement water issues - little things like that. 😩😩😄

Thanks for the feedback - and the last two photos show what we were thinking. And you’re right - that middle door on the wall shouldn’t be there - it’s now a wall but the other door stays (that’s to the hallway).

Wasn’t sure whether to make that new peninsula two level for more comfy seating and not so close to the stove? What to do with the walls behind and to the right of the peninsula?

The fridge does open and no - no issue with it banging the glass door.

You noticed! There was wood under the linoleum and we replaced a couple of appliances - budget temporary appliances.

Any other ideas?! Thanks so much and Happy 4th!

I noticed the floors, too, what a bonus to find them under linoleum! During delay (ugh) as you work in your kitchen imagine how the proposed changes will impact you. Most people prefer the fridge on the end close to the DR and hall (where pantry is now) to keep snackers out of the cooking area. Will you be adding a microwave in the peninsula? Did you want to keep DR closed off from Kitchen?

Hi @Marylut. Yes - the floors were a nice surprise! Because we will reno the kitchen, we weren’t sure whether it was worth it to temporarily move the fridge to the dr side (where that pantry is now). It works just okay where it is now - obviously not ideal - but the plan is to move it to another location (not where the pantry is) once the reno is done. The microwave will stay where it is (on the shelf which also serves as a coffee station for us now) and the DR will stay closed off for now.

Hi Houzzeroni’s! I’m back with questions - do I start a new thread?!?!

Stay here unless it is landscaping!!!

Hi CeeBee!

Just continue here. Looking forward to an update on the progress.

Thanks @Jan. I wish. But alas the concept above we decided upon is on hold - windows, hvac - they’re important to do first?!?! Lol?

Anyhow, while we WILL get there, I’m looking for an interim budget-friendly fix for this less than functional (and ugly) kitchen. The plan (pics below) is to move the stove farther away from the window to the end of that wall, add a hood, and then a long peninsula at the right end of the stove, and add a small cabinet to the left of the stove.

So what’s that’s done - what goes where the “?” is?

There really is no space (measurements above) for any banquette or eik that would be comfortable (I think) so we 1) could use the peninsula for counter seating with storage (what kind) along that back wall or 2) no counter seating at all to maximize storage on both sides of peninsula and have everyone sit in dining room?

Plus - the advantage to option 2 was that while the stovetop wouldn’t be ON the peninsula - it does feel too close uncomfortable to any seating once the stove is moved - even if it’s on a lower level of the counter, same level or the eik part - if it would even fit.

Hubs finds kitchen charming and vintage, I’ll be kind and say nothing.

I’ll take any advice - even color choice - to make this temporarily functional and pretty. I just hate the feel of my stomach dropping every time I walk in.

Thoughts?? Thanks!!

“Progress” @rebunky????? 😫😫😫😫😫. 🥹

Cee Bee,

I wrote a long comment out this morning and just as was going to post it deleted. 😖 Then I was busy all day. Anyways, just wanted you to know I didn't forget about you!

Questions:

How wide is your range?

If you move the range to the right towards the end of that wall, won’t you need to move the light switch and electrical outlet?

How much will that, plus the install of the hood and venting to the outside cost?

If you are definitely doing the gut remodel within a year, is it worth the expense to do the hood now, since it will just be a temporary fix?

i think you want to move the range and hood to the window wall left of sink in the new kitchen correct?

Believe me, I get the need for a hood above a powerful gas stove! The hood needs to be 6” wider the the range, so that means a new cabinets on the left next to the window.

I am just trying to weight out the cost as to whether it is worth it for a temporary fix or not.

If you think it will be more like 2-3 years then yes, I would definitely consider it depending on the cost.

Hi @rebunky! How frustrating abu the lost post but thanks for your reply! I’m afraid we’re 2-3 years out. Windows, then some foundational and plumbing issues just sucked the budget.

Hmmm. Im pretty sure range is 40 inches (I’m not home). And right now all there is is a poorly functioning exhaust fan (might as well be me up there fanning with a sheet of paper).

And yes - we plan on moving the range to the left of the window wall.

Does adding a hood mean adding a cabinet? I was thinking just move the stove, add the hood (change whatever we need to do electrically) and a (stand alone?) peninsula and call it a day. WITH maybe some creative ideas for behind the peninsula? Here are some additional photos which may be helpful?

One of those images was us toying with the idea of a banquette but think it’s too tight. Disregard the aesthetics, we have a new floor, painted walls white (for now). And thought of these as peninsulas but they add no storage.

Lol! I can just picture you flapping away! 🤣

Yes definitely too small for the banquette.

Do you need seating for 3 people or is 2 enough?

Would something like this work?

The third seat on the end only would work if you removed the cabinets behind it unfortunately. Otherwise that walkway would be way too tight when someone is sitting there.

No, there is no upper cabinet needed for hood.

The reason I would not just flip the existing base cabinet with the range is because then you don’t have enough wall space for a hood that is 6” bigger then the range. That is highly recommended for better capture of cooking fumes, etc, especially with a powerful gas range.

So the new cabinet needed would be a smaller base cabinet for the left side of the range next to the window. You could even just build open shelves, but a cabinet with drawers would be nice.

You could still use the existing base cabinet, but instead it would be on the peninsula side. But, I wasn’t sure if you wanted that side to be a freestanding piece. I think in the new plan, any damage to the wood floor from removing it later, might be covered up by fridge and cabinets anyways?

The small extra space next to the stove could be an open slot for storing cutting boards, sheet trays, etc…. Or maybe something like this?

You could use your existing Butcher Block counter (cut to fit) on the left side or do all new BB so it all matches. I have seen the island sized BB slabs at Lowes and HD that could fit across the peninsula and the seating overhang. You would just cut a notch out to fit around the corner two walls for the small extra counter needed next to the range.

I feel like you could get the new BB for less then buying a table or free standing ”island” to use as a peninsula and seating overhang. And like you said with a table you lose storage.

Let me know your thoughts and we can alway go back to the drawing board. 😉

@rebunky. This is great! Yes - that tall cabinet on the dining room wall has to stay for now.

Some functional and aesthetic questions. Can you see the new cabinet and table on the peninsula side being a place where there could be storage underneath?

Any ideas for storage on the wall behind the seating area? Cabinet, ledge? Or just artsy stuff? (Photos, prints, etc)

If the sink wall is ALL stainless steel, what would you suggest for the counter top material on the range/peninsula/table side? Butcher block for either side of the stove? A different material for the prep area and a different material for the table?

And seating for two is fine - we will
start to get used to eating in the DR more!!

You’re the best!

Hopefully my math is correct but could this work?

You would need to buy:

A 21” cabinet for the left side of the range and a spacer. I put a 3” spacer, but could use less. You just need it to clear the trim.

I’d do Butcher Block (island size slab) for the countertops. The ones I saw at Lowes are 72” x 39”. It cost about $400. But, it may be less where you live. I live in Hawaii so everything is crazy expensive!

I really think having all the countertops on that side match and all be in the new BB would look great with the stainless. BB is what you have now and it really fits the style of your kitchen. Which btw, I agree with your husband, it is so charming!

I know you were trying to do it this as inexpensively as possible, but I really think the cost of the BB would be worth it for 3 years. I am sure you could reuse it later somewhere in the new kitchen or somewhere else. I would not want any more then two different countertop materials. Also all the same countertop height on the peninsula.

I made the seating overhang on the end 15”. But if I added correctly, you would have an extra 3”leftover for the 72” length. You can add whatever is left to the 15” overhang or just scrap the leftover for more isle space. Whatever you prefer.

However, with only 39” for the width, the back seating overhang would end up at approximately 13”. That is if you do a 1.5” countertop overhang on the working side and add a 1/2” thick back panel to cover the back of the cabinet. Not ideal for leg room, but since it is just temporary, I think it would be ok???

You‘ll notice I did not put the renge all the way to the end of that wall. I did that so you would have enough room for a 46” range hood to go above the 40” range. You want it to be 6” wider for capturing all the cooking fumes as they rise up and out. I think it leaves 3” of wall space to the corner.

So you would have at least 45” for prep on the peninsula side of the range and 24” on the left side.

I would not have anything against the wall that is directly behind the seating. It would not be enough room to get in and out of the stools comfortably. I would just do a nice big framed artwork. A high shelf might be ok though to store pretty pottery or other kitchen items to display.

Ok, I think that’s it. Let me know what you think.

ETA: Of course I had to fix my math that was wrong, lol!

@rebunky Wow! I can’t thank you enough! You’re so talented! I will run the math by hubs (above in thread I mentioned eldercare responsibilities so I’m with them and not at home 😔).

Quick question in the meantime - could there be a way to build cabinets under the new butcher block to maximize storage? The goal was to increase the prep space (done) get the range from so close to the window (done), have a couple of counter chairs for informal eating (done) and maximize storage to at least get more of my kitchen stuff out of the boxes. Don’t know if modifying an antique piece would work, (trying to add some character but I’m glad you see some charm this 1940 kitchen!), or buy more cabinetry that the butcher block could sit on top of?? And that have storage be on every side of the new peninsula - even where the chairs are? I think I have some inspiration photos! Thank you! Thank you!

Photos? Adding a microwave shelf possible?

@rebunky I'm late on this one..need any visuals?

What? How? Ummm? Insert Rapid blinking shocked emoji!! How do you guys do this! @Rabbitt Design - Gosh - this is great! Thank you! I love the visual - so so helpful. Grateful for any and all ideas!

Oh sorry, I should have explained it better!

The cabinet that I labeled ”existing cab” that is underneath the peninsula in my drawing is your existing 30” white cabinet with the butcher block on top. It is to the right of your range in your current kitchen.

I just guessed it was about 30” based on the wall being 70” and the range being 40”. But it might be a little smaller which is fine.

So the reason I did not flip that 30” cabinet with the range is because I wanted to allow the extra wall space on the right in order to add a 46” hood. So the hood is 3” wider on each side of the 40” range. I looked some hoods up and they do make them in a 46” size.

I figured you could still use the existing 30” cabinet but instead use it underneath the peninsula. That would hold up the Butcher Block. I was not sure if you would need a post under the corner of the overhang between the two chairs.

So to fill to 24” gap to the left of the range by the little window, I was thinking you could buy inexpensive off the shelf 21” white kitchen drawer base cabinet. You will need a small filler so the drawers can clear the baseboard trim is all. The butcher block slab is big enough to do everthing on that side with extra left over where it’s notched to the wall, but I think its worth it to have a solid surface across the peninsula.

It would look like this.

Hope that makes more sense!

If you are worried about the flooring under the peninsula being wrecked, I think in the future kitchen design that will be completely covered up since you plan on extending the kitchen towards the dining room. That floor space will most likely be covered up by the shower addition, wall, fridge and the pantry or coffee station area won’t it?

Oh wow Rabbit, that is exactly what I was thinking! Thanks for the visual for CeeBee!

I forgot to refresh the page before I posted. I was cooking and writing my response at the same time lol!

@rebunky Thanks so much! It was me who wasn’t understanding. You were clear.

In my very VERY elementary understanding of all of this, I wasn’t sure if the old cabinet could be reused IN ADDITION to adding another kind of cabinet or storage piece (no idea what) that would allow us to gain even more storage on the right side of the stove (recognizing that the cabinet to the left of the stove would allow us more storage, but we need more).

If not - since we would buy the new cabinet to the left, would it be worth to cost to get rid of the existing cabinet altogether and buy a new one that could sort of match the new one and that would look like one of the photos I posted above? And allow seating?

Gosh - I hope I’m making sense!🙃

@rebunky - if I haven’t scared you away I was perusing Houzz and came across an illustration of what I was talking about re: peninsula storage above in case it was confusing. Of course it’s not the exact layout but close enough. Here is a screenshot - wasn’t sure how to send the whole thing to you!

Hmmm, let me think on it.

But, in the meantime I would Google….

”Antique Buffet / Sideboard / Dresser turned into an island with seating overhang”

I am sure it can be done! You would just need a tiny tray slot or whatever that you could DIY on the right side of the range to bring the base cabs even with the wall corner. We are talking inches here! Then you would add the antique piece turned peninsula butted up to that. I like that idea!

I will look it up tomorrow to see what I can find. 😀

Cee Bee,

I am trying to understand the Houzz image you posted above. I apologize profusely, but I seriously don’t get it.

I see in the Houzz photo a MW housed within an ”appliance garage” type thing. The door to the MW is facing towards the short end of the peninsula. So how does that even work when the door and all the power buttons are not facing you? I just cannot picture you or your elderly parents or anyone for that matter comfortably using a mw positioned like that.

It looks like you have an existing microwave currently sitting on the countertop of the “hutch” cabinet that is against the dining room wall. It is the cab to the left of the doorway going from the kitchen leading into the dining room and across from the potential peninsula.

Are you suggesting moving the microwave from where it currently is on that hutch countertop and putting it in a totally awkward position on the new peninsula??

Why? What is the problem leaving it where it is? It seems like a totally logical place. You can stand facing the buttons, looking straight on and opening the door at a normal front facing position. You then have a perfectly logical countertop for the hot foods to land right next to it.

Yikes, I am sure I must be confused! What am I missing here? Is my brain just malfunctioning as usual? 🤪

ETA:

So sorry! Maybe you meant just some type of cabinet similar to that sitting on the peninsula against the wall for storage? Not with the MW located there, but just for some storage? 😜

@rebunky! My bad! I should’ve been much clearer. Disregard everything on top of the peninsula! It’s the storage on the bottom I wanted to replicate with the new peninsula! I agree - that set up is awkward and nothing will go on top of the peninsula. I may be deluding myself with just how much extra space I can really get with 30-45 inches. Clearer?!

Oh thank goodness! I was freaking out a little. 🤣

So I think that super skinny pullout in the photo would be perfect located to the right side of the range!

I think rev-a-shelf makes a 5“ or 6” filler pullout that would fit there so that makes the cabinet run end in line with the end of the wall where it turn the corner. We can work with the exact inches since the filler on the far left (by window) can be adjusted to what ever minimum is needed to clear the base board. Certainly don’t need 3” for it.

Then we can decide from there what you want to use for the peninsula which will butt up to that tiny filler pullout cab.

Let me know if you are up for some “Do-It-Yourself” projects like I mentioned. For instance, making a “craigslist find” dresser or buffet into the peninsula with seating overhang.

Or if you can afford it, you just want to purchase something already done (still as cheap as possible) to serve as the peninsula with storage for pots and pans, cooking utensils, silverware, etc etc…

So are you wanting a trash pullout as shown in the picture on the peninsula? That might be more $. Or is the trash located somewhere near the sink currently?

@rebunky! Hahaha - you must’ve thought I lost my mind!

And wow - you always take me to the next level!! Thanks again! So the bottom line - adding storage to the new peninsula IS possible!!Wasn’t sure why the architect (but maybe this is the architect vs kitchen designer issue I’ve been learning about on Houzz) kept showing counter seating all along the peninsula with no storage underneath!

I think I’ve given up on the character piece. Truth is I need more storage, period. So function has to win with the goal being to squeeze every bit of storage I can into that peninsula. And I’ll just look forward to “the pretty” when I get the kitchen you and buehl helped design! Or adding pretty with color and that high shelf you mentioned.

So right now that cabinet to the right of the stove houses two drawers of utensils, and a cabinet underneath (no shelves) where I keep maybe three big pots. That means I would need that in the new peninsula and yes a trash bin (right now that’s just a stand alone bin near the window to the right of the Dutch door).

Need storage for plates and pots so I can take them out of the upper cabinets and put all the glassware I still have in boxes. Open to the diy! And any ideas about function - what SHOULD be to the right of the peninsula??

And I was just showing that photo above as an example - it doesn’t have to be exactly like that.

Thanks for all the time you’ve given this.

So the bottom line - adding storage to the new peninsula IS possible!!Wasn’t sure why the architect (but maybe this is the architect vs kitchen designer issue I’ve been learning about on Houzz) kept showing counter seating all along the peninsula with no storage underneath!

No clue, but maybe I don’t understand what you mean either! Lol!

So are you saying the architect did not have any normal 24” deep cabinets running underneath the countertop to the right of the new range location? So basically they just had a countertop with legs holding it up and it was completely open underneath the whole thing?

Or are you talking about they did not have additional shallow storage cabinets underneath the seating overhang on the other side? So they’d be to back to with the regular cabinets on the working side? Similar to this?

If that is the case, you don’t have enough room behind the seating to add a second row of storage, even if you used uppers that are 12” deep.

And any ideas about function - what SHOULD be to the right of the peninsula??

Huh? I think you mean to the right of the range, not peninsula. Correct? 🤪

So if you just have the two bar stools on the back side of the peninsula and not the one on the end, I think you have about 5’ to play with from the range.

So from the window, I would do a small filler enough to clear the baseboard, then a 21” drawer base to hold all the cooking utencils, hot pads, etc etc…

You could then do a 36” 3-drawer base to the right of the range. I have one where the top drawer is skinnier then the two bottom drawers. I put my pots and pans in the 2 deeper drawers and my spices in the top.

That would leave 24”. You could do a 15” or 18” trash pullout and then have room to do that cute shelf idea on the end, 9” or 6” deep depending on trash size.

Do you live near an Ikea. I would probably get the cabinets there and put them together and possibly install them yourself. You could probably do the butcher block counters as well. It all depends on how much diy you are comfortable doing. I will play with drawing something up later. Have to get back to the farm duties!

Thanks so much! You’re right - proofread, CeeBee!!! I meant to the right of the peninsula! And I can get to an ikea - love that set up at the end pictured above. I could put cookbooks there!

And the architect would send these type of configurations below . If I’m totally totally fair - it may be because he was still trying to meet my desire for an informal eat in kitchen situation for my parents, rather than for any additional storage. Thank you!!!!

Oops I did it again!!!! Aaaargh! TO THE RIGHT OF THE RANGE! RANGE! RANGE!!! I have that peninsula on the brain!!! 🤪🤪🤪🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️

@rebunky - quick question. I know nothing is probably “gospel” but how much of a difference is a 36 inch vs 42 pathway??

This thread below explains everything about widths for the “working isles” in the kitchen, walkways, and space needed behind seating, etc etc…

What walkway are you debating on being 36” verses”42”?

Is it the walkway that would be in between the end of the peninsula and the large cabinet with counter that would be directly across from it where the microwave is now?

Since people will need to stand in that isle to use the microwave, coffee pot, or get things from the cabinets, I would call that a ”working isle”. So 42” is the bare minimum.

If it was just a flat wall with nothing on it, then you could go with 36, since it is not a working isle and you just are passing through. Hope that makes sense.

Keep us posted!

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5500771/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

Thanks @rebunky! Houzz should pay you!!! 🤩. I think I have enough to go on but you mention “drawing something up”. Didn’t wanna proceed if you had more gifts coming! 😋

Or you should cee bee 🤷🏻‍♂️

Rebunky saving you at least a few $thousand

Haha!

Yes I had started something and then forgot.

So there are a couple ways to do it, but this is what I would do. It leaves about 48” +/- for the walkway space between the tall MW cab/counter on dining room wall and the end of the peninsula.

I would not go less for that walkway. Even 42” would be too tight. Remember that is considered a working isle with people using the MW, getting coffee, and accessing whatever is stored in that cabinet as well.

And not only that, but it is a main walkthrough coming and going to the laundry room carrying laundry baskets. You have the doorway to the dining room, but this is the easiest path to and from the bedrooms verses going all the way around through the dining room.

You will create a bottleneck there if you go too small. You don’t need the peninsula any bigger, it fits two bar seats fine and is plentry of prep space to the right of the stove. I think you need the walking space more then the extra 6” for cookbook storage or a bigger cabinet next to the range.

I was trying to use the “island size” Butcher Block from Lowes (or other store). It comes in 72” L x 39” W. I think this will work. It all is depending on the size of the filler needed under the window. It just needs to clear any base board or trim. The rest can adjust.

If you have a 1.5” overhang on the front and on the side of the cabinet (end of peninsula), that leaves a 13.5” overhang for the bar. 15” would be better, but since this is only temporary, I wouldn’t sweat it.

So if my math is correct, which it usually is not 😜, I would do something like this.

ETA: Check my math, but I think if you did a 1.5” filler at the top (hopefully enough to clear trim)) that you can do the 18” trash

1.5 filler + 21” drawers + 30” drawers + 18” trash + 1.5” side countertop overhang = 72” (length of BB)

It works!!! Thanks so much @rebunky! What program do you use and how are you so knowledgeable? 👏👏👏👏👏

Everything I have learned about kitchen design is pretty much from reading the kitchen forum on this site. It was previously called Gardenweb. I found GW in about 2014 when I was in the process of remodeling my own kitchen.

I would read through the info in this thread often, and I guess after reading it enough times, some things have finally sunk in!

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5972404/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-2020-interim#n=11

The program I use is called, You Doodle. It is an ipad app. I think of it as photoshop for dummies. Lol! It is also free, unless you want to pay the $6 or so for the full version. I have fun with it.

I cannot wait to see how the temporary kitchen addition turns out!