5-1-1 for fruit trees in containers?
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Tapla's 5-1-1 Container Mix in More Detail
Comments (450)@dleverette When making 5:1:1 mix, I break-up the compressed chunks of peat so they pass through a 1/2" screen. I toss any sticks and such on top of the raised beds where they break down with time. Here's a tip you'll find very helpful. For large batches of 5:1:1, pour the bark onto a tarp laid on a flat surface, then wet the bark a bit. Then, add the screened peat and spread it over the bark. Add your lime on top of the peat, then put down the perlite and wet that. The trick is to use just enough water to make the mix damp when it's thoroughly mixed. Both peat and pine bark are hydrophobic (water repellent) when allowed to dry below about 20% of their water holding ability. This makes a dry 5:1:1 mix extremely difficult to rewet if you don't moisten it when you make it. The moisture in the mix diffuses, moistening the bark/ peat and "breaking" its tendency to repel water. Within 15-30 minutes of making the mix you can pot plants and water them in thoroughly w/o the frustration associated with trying to rehydrate a dry soil. FWIW, I don't use coir. As many times as I've tried it and cone comparative experiments, I've always had problems or been dissatisfied with the results. You might be interested in a comparison between peat and coir I wrote several years back: Peat vs. Coir Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to compact, in the greenhouse industry coir is primarily used in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue. Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields. I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil. The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales. That's the view from here. YMMV Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies Al...See More5-1-1 container report
Comments (7)Hey Drew, Yeah, tomatoes just don't like 5-1-1. At least when huge yields are concerned. I think they grow so quickly the perched water table doesn't matter. In years past, I grew in commercial peat mixes and, within weeks, the entire 10-15 gal pots were filled with roots. 5-1-1 just didn't compare. I'm moving all my veggies over to a new aquaponic wicking tray system. That said, for citrus, guava and a lot of other plants, 5-1-1 is fantastic. Surprisingly, banana, sugarcane and bamboo love it. I would think they'd need more soggy mixes, but they go nuts in the stuff. I do really want to figure out a completely inorganic mix. I'm thinking of 2-1-1 of pumice, DE and perlite. I want to use this on my big trees in pots larger than 15 gal. Any thoughts? Hey Josh: You're right about the cactus. I switched over to a gritty/bonsai mix of DE, perlite and pumice and they're doing a lot better, though some I just can't figure out. I have an easier time growing mandarins than a stupid cactus from Ikea, lol. I probably have 20 in this mix. The big succulents love the 5-1-1 as long as they're in large pots. My flapjack grew maybe 1 inch last year in crap soil and 18" this year so far. Same with aloe and others. I have my dragon fruit in 15 gal pot wit 5-1-1 and it loves it. In the heat, there's probably 1/2" of growth a day. Regarding avocados, I'm not sure what's going on. I transplanted from 5 gal containers (all grafted onto mexican rootstock) into my 15 gal pots with 5-1-1. Lost 2 rare varieties which was annoying. The trees should do great in 15 gal pots, avos in 15 gals in nurseries put out fruit at that size. 30 gal pots with avocados will see dozens of fruit. But they always have commercial nursery mixes that hold a lot more water. I'll look into the drip trays. I do have a whole drip system, but I've been fertigating with Dyna-Gro by hand. I think I might just double the watering routine since they may just need that much water. That and put them in 30 gal pots. Then again, it could be an issue with what avocado roots like. Maybe smaller avocado seedlings in 5-1-1 work, but I'm thinking there's something incompatible about large avocado roots and the particle size of 5-1-1....See MoreContainer size + 5-1-1 mix
Comments (2)Yes, the 5-1-1 is fast enough for that size.....but will the Meyers be large enough to make use of that volume? I would put a bunch of two-liter soda bottles (caps on) in the bottom of the barrels so that you don't have to make so much mix to fill the entire barrels. For a year or two, that'll be fine root-room, and the bottles will reduce the overall water-holding volume. Post a pic of the Meyers so we can see their relative size. Josh...See MoreBerry and fruit trees, Gritty mix of 5-1-1
Comments (1)For the brambles, I'd use the 5:1:1 mix - and the gritty mix for the trees. No tweaking should be required. I think you'll find your concern for 'how long the mix will last' will be outweighed by how congested the roots are. You'll probably need to divide & repot before either soil has outlived its serviceable life. Al...See MoreHoward Martin
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