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Another Much despised Baltic Brown update in my kitchen

2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago

In advance, thank you for any and all feedback. I've read every thread regarding this granite, so here goes. This natural maple kitchen was installed in our new build in 1998 with green laminate with natural maple edge counter tops. Around 2003-ish I replaced them with Baltic Brown as my Home Depot tile was green and BB was the best option color-wise. I am not inclined to replace the cabinets nor the granite as I'll sell this house in about 7 years. I am willing to replace the tile which runs throughout the kitchen, a dining area, and a mudroom - about 1,000 sf. I understand the challenges with this busy granite, so I'm trying to do something that at least works the best that it can be.


Existing:

- BM White Dove Trim; SW Ivoire - willing to change if needed

- Wellborn natural maple cabinets with panels on all exposed ends; arched uppers - will need new hardware; varied height cabinets in corners

- Baltic Brown granite - 85 SF; massive peninsula is overpowering

- Pretty unobtrusive (at least I think so) backsplash with silver accents

- Three pendants - will change

- Stainless appliances - will keep

- Desk area - not really used, but not interested in a wine cooler


Ideas:

- Replace floor with light-ish tile in greige/gray and possible woodgrain or oversized tiles; abutting room has Bruce pre-finished natural oak (some yellowing)

- Paint, based on my looking hard at examples, might be SW Grizzle Gray on bottom and Panda White on top.

- Attempt to add interest in upper cabinets - (1) open "X" cabinet above the micro; (2) fridge surround area brough up to ceiling height with heavier trim and painted Grizzle Gray; (3) back of peninsula to be covered with shiplap or beadboard and in Grizzle Gray; (4) opening shelving in center cabinet of desk area; (5) something for sides of appliance garage; (6) tiles or something in the back of the glass front cabinet

I understand how enormous this project is and I'm planning to work on it through the winter and into the spring. Given that I've been staring at these cabinets and their current aging orange tone, I certainly don't want to make an error in color choices. There's a sample I painted in a section of the cabinets (see photos) and I leave that up for at least a month so I can see it in all lights. I will take the good, the bad and the ugly comments.

















Comments (96)

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Subway would definitely go with your cabinets - it is a classic shape, just newly popular again. Personally, I don't care for the idea of a green backsplash tile - it doesn't work with the counter, and would emphasize the floor, which you really don't want to do.

    I am wondering, exactly what problems you are trying to fix by removing/moving cabinets? IM(NSH)O, removing the right cabinet and then having to paint the side of the next cabinet is not a good move, unless you are going to go to the expense of painting all of the uppers.

    I wouldn't call natural maple orange at all, and your photos don't strike me as orange either.

    As someone else mentioned, natural finish maple is becoming popular again. You don't need to paint any of them, no matter what "most" other kitchens in your area have. Why be like everyone else? Why is there a need to compromise? Appreciate the beauty of your cabinets! Clean them well, as previously suggested (they may have a coat of grease buildup that is changing and dulling the fresh color).

    If I just had to remove a cabinet, I would somehow get rid of the appliance garage - those always annoy me LOL!

    Seriously, take one step at a time: remove the backsplash and replace, then paint, change hardware/lighting if you want, and then take a breather to adjust to the changes and see if you are satisfied. If not, look at replacing the floor - as suggested above.

    No gray or any color grout, please! that would introduce another pattern, more busyness, which the counter supplies enough of already!

  • 2 years ago

    I’ll chime in with those who suggest putting in a white backsplash. I think your cabinets are quite beautiful. Wood cabinets are making a comeback.

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  • 2 years ago

    Jo-Ann, subway tile is not too modern for your kitchens. Trends for how to use it are changing a little now away from horizontal to vertical or herringbone. I think that's just to alleviate the boredom that comes from overuse. I am not encouraging you to use subway tile. I find it too reminiscent of actual filthy subways to ever want it in my home anywhere. Use of various shapes of tile have blossomed many times and have become associated with past eras and places. Re-use of them evokes a period or place. Tile in general has been used for a LONG time. I'm thinking of Roman baths now. But maybe you remember it wasn't that many decades ago that we avoided tile in the kitchen to allow the granite counters to take center stage. That may be the best choice for you too. Maybe the tile and granite are competing with each other and you could calm things down by removing the tile. 


    I still think there's nothing wrong with your inspiration photo, but I see others have talked you out of changing the cabinets. Fine. I appreciate natural wood as much as anyone. The thing is though, if YOU can be talked into or out of what you love, then it must not have been very important to you. And that's FINE! But it makes me think the advice I previously discounted…just leave it alone until you sell in 7 years… might have been the best advice. Save your money for the next kitchen.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I like long division: Seven Years /The spend

    If you spent 11 to 13 K and ALL you did was get a good professional paint job on the orange oak, a new backsplash, hardware, new lighting........and you were HAPPY?

    Can you accept that the price of being quite happy for the next seven years is 1850.00 per year ? If so, you proceed.

    Why? Because a thousand folks will have as many ideas of what you should do. I just suggested what I would do.......and NO. More. Than . That. : )

    Nobody will know what makes you happy. You won't make the buyer of the house happy. Don't try. This is for YOU and the next seven years.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Here's a great example of what just new tops and backsplash can do to a space!!! This house had a somewhat dated "Tuscan" kitchen. The new homeowners of this house (purchased summer 2022) originally had wanted to remodel it entirely...a total gut job. But they ultimately decided that they wanted to move within a few years....so we replaced the countertops and backsplash ONLY. Looks like a new kitchen!

    Keep it simple. No stripes.

    The tile is Daltile Colorwheel in Almond Matte Sheen (with bullnose trim)

    The countertop is Corianquartz "Venetian Cream"

    BEFORE PIC


    AFTER PICS



  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    white cabs and baltic brown look horrible together. there is no white in that granite. And you have a LOT of this granite.


    Here's the painted white w/this granite . Just, NO.


    again, no.


    I don't understand everyone w/the '7 years' thing! a lot could happen in 7 years. So you want to continue to live w/something you don't like becausue in 7 years someone 'may' do a gut?

    That's ridiculous. You live for today. you make your house enjoyable to you. you spend the money to make you happy. If baltic brown makes you happy, fine, leave it. But if you don't like it, then for heavens sake, get rid of it! Seven years??? 1-2 I could see, but not seven. what if something were to happen and you ended up having to stay put? You would have given up a nice looking kitchen for nothing.

    BTW, if the layout and the cabs are good, why would it be a gut? you (or the new people) could easily reface the cabs and have everything painted. That's what I did with mine.

    I'd leave the cabinets and get new countertops. look into Pre-fabs. they can be a few thousand cheaper. To get those cabs professionally painted would be the cost of a new countertop.

    Want to save some money? Demo the backsplash and the countertop yourselves. you could save 1K by doing it.

    leave the wood, get new hardware

    Update your lighting to 4000K. if something is looking overly yellow or red, it's your lighting.

    This is one of the few makeovers w/Baltic Brown that look relatively decent. The floors and the backsplash color play a big role in how this looks. This granite also seems to have more of the creamier spots than you have.


    she used Panda White and Grizzle Gray. (Is this where you got your idea)? The floor tile is the number one thing that makes this work. I would not do a gray tile. If you like the above redo, then do a soft white/warmer taupe. Baltic Brown has taupe/pink undertones. Greenish too.

    that's why Grizzle gray works.

    here are two floor tiles you could get samples. Linden White, and the Marbelle Griege-24x24




    here's what I'd do:

    backsplash/countertop/hardware/pendants/floor tile - replace.

    After that's done, you can decide if the cabs are worth painting.


    Try adding some glass panels to a few of the uppers and going for a lighter granite




  • 2 years ago

    To make any decisions I would need to price out the cost of:


    Replacing the flooring

    Replacing the Countertop

    Replacing the backsplash

    Painting the cabinets


    I think you may be thinking that painting the cabinets is an inexpensive adventure as you bulked at spending 5-7k to replace the countertop and I think getting your cabinets professionally will also run 5k.


    The next thing you need to consider is the Return on Investment of each of these projects.

    IMHO

    I don't believe you will see any ROI for replacing the flooring - it is not objectionable as is.

    I don't believe painting your cabinets will see any ROI and buyer pool may be reduced. If someone likes wood they will not want painted. If someone likes painted they are going to think - cheap upgrade (they haven't priced professional painting yet).

    I think you may see a 30%-50% ROI on replacing the backsplash and/or countertop. Figure on getting less than 1/2 your money back when you sell. People think the countertop is expensive to replace and it will impact their desire to buy.


    Once you have done all the math given your various options the next step is to determine the reasonable breakpoint of spending on your current home or saving money toward your next home.


    I put some really rough numbers in below.

    If you replace flooring, counters, backsplash and paint the cabinets you will gain about $2,100 when you sell in 7 years.


    If you put that money in a sock drawer in 7 years you would still have $14,000 toward your next home.


    If you invested that $14,000 at 6% apr for the next 7 years you will have $21,000 toward your next house.



    The numbers above are simply dollars. The other factor is the joy factor. You should enjoy living in your home and spending time in your kitchen. It may be worth it to you to spend the money now and enjoy your kitchen for the next 7 years, or you may want to save toward your next home. Only you know the right balance is for you.


  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    good point jennifer. (where exactly is this 6% investment with a guaranteed payoff in 7 years? )

    However, I think she could take the 14K (or whatever her budget is) redo all of the tile in the room and the countertop, enjoy her kitchen for 7 years, and add on 14K to the listing price when she goes to sell. 7 years from now that baltic brown will be more hated than it already is because in 7 years I'm sure something new will be all the rage.

    There are ways to save money on this reno, like doing all of their own demo and shopping for discount tile. Or pre-fab countertops.

    Backsplash isn't a necessity at this juncture.

    However, if they plan on removing it, why not try a heavier white-wash to lighten it?


    Worth a try if the plan is to take it out.

    Just get a little sample jar of romabio in one of the warmer whites.

    Here's my photoshop makeover w/the white wash, some glass in a few of the uppers, a new pendant (please bring in a minimum 3500K light bulbs), some brushed gold hardware and a black faucet


    With a lighter floor tile, it might be enough for 7 years. lol


    Or, to take it further if the whitewash looks blah, She (they) could finish the drywall after tile removal and just paint the wall. (Zero money spent for demo, and if they can do some DIY, redo the drywall and skim coat for the price of supplies).

    or do a beadboard. less than $100 (c-below)

    or, just get the new countertop w/a 5" backsplash piece. (maybe another 200 or so depending on the fabricator. sometimes the backsplash piece is included in the countertop price)

    I just found this pic. almost the same as OP.


    they kept the countertop/granite but did the beadboard (they hotglued it right over the tile!)


    Here's a beadboard w/a diff counter and some added glass panels in the uppers. (This can also be a rather inexpensive upgrade if they can DIY)


    Here's the white again w/the baltic brown, along w/wood floors. (that current tile floor just doesn't work w/the cabinet stain) . I just don't think painting the cabs white and leave the Baltic is the best choice.


    These taupe/gray tones might be better. could work on the walls if the cabs are left as is.


    Some other shades that work w/Baltic Brown


    Personally I think a new countertop would look better, but that's just my opinion.







  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Well, no offense girls, but there are a whole lot of whites. There's " no white" in absolute black granite, either. There is a s*&&load of orange in those cabinets.

    The op has to FORGET recouping, pleasing etc

    Do what makes you happy for the next seven. Forget anything/ any amount of $$ that prevents you from enjoying all the other aspects of your life.

    As I said.......ask a million people? Same number of answers. If NONE of it is bothering you? Do nothing, Stop thinking that any of it comes back, than anyone else will like it.

    Me? Slap on new counters with those orange toned cabs? No way. But that is ME. Not the op. Not the wood lovers.





    Love Beth....... but. WHICH white matters. : ) and we could argue for days about which is uglier......orangey cabs ... or Baltic lol

    In five to eight years? Everyone will look at the boldly stirred/ finger painted plastic "marble" and they will be laughing, as we laughed at Formica, at Corian at.............Baltic and all the other ugly yogurt swirl granites out there.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    jan, lol. her lighting is rather warm toned, so changing those will mean a bit less orange. getting rid of those baltic brown counters which bring more peachy/pink tones to the party, changing the wall color, adding glass in the cabs to break up some of that 'orange', will help tremendously.

    If they still look too orange, then she can paint.

    That's the order I'd do it in because I hate the granite more than the cabs. (and I don't hate the cabs. I just think that bringing in 4000K bulbs, some glass, and a diff countertop would make a huge diff in the overall look. And those horrid green floor tiles too! but she is changing those)





    Similar maple cabs, glass in the upper, wood flooring, Cloe tile backsplash, quartz countertop. (not a huge fan of this plain white quartz, so I think something else would look better)


    These are all the same yellowish wood tone minus the pink/taupe/greenish granite!




    Glass uppers in both of these. Do them on either side of the sink.






  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    So, this is an article about working with the ’out of favor’ granites - including Baltic Brown:

    https://www.kylieminteriors.ca/how-to-update-your-older-granite-countertops/


    Green is a complementary color to Baltic Brown, as well as possibly grey greens - for wall color and/or backsplash. And this is one of the reasons why I suggested going toward the greens for backsplash. That, along with the fact that your current floor happens to be green.

    If you were to paint the cabinets - and wanted to do a white - going in the direction of the ’modern beiges’ (as opposed to a stark white or a yellow, as in creams) would be better. (Not every color shown on list below would necessarily be the best fit. So of course testing samples would be important. Samplize.com.)

    And, btw, this list is just to offer a few ideas/options. There are other options out there in this paint range, as well.



    The bottom line is: Only you know what is the best route for you. Many people here have told you that your current cabs are beautiful - and wood is back en vogue.

    One of the reasons that people end up in these situations to begin with is following trends and trying to keep up with the Joneses. So, for example, the granites that were trendy in one era are no longer so much - because now people want plain black or white or marble or fake marble. But mark my words, there will come a time when people get tired of this, too - because it is just not a black and white world.

    How can ancient, beautiful, natural stone be ”outdated” ? Good question...

    Also - btw, your cabinets are not overly orange. And even if they were - this would not necessarily be a bad thing, since orange is also a complementary color to Baltic Brown (see article I posted above). In any case, the existing wood cabinets work with the existing granite.

    Anyway - my advice: Do whatever makes you happy. If you don’t like the stone - get something you do like. If you want to paint the cabinets - paint them. If you want to save your money and just update the space - change the backsplash and pendants.

  • 2 years ago

    Following

  • 2 years ago

    I would take Beth’s advice and whitewash the tile backsplash. Nothing to lose. Also think the wall color is making the cabinets look more orange.

  • 2 years ago

    @JAN MOYER - "

    "The op has to FORGET recouping, pleasing etc

    Do what makes you happy for the next seven. Forget anything/ any amount of $$ that prevents you from enjoying all the other aspects of your life."


    Really - don't worry your pretty little head about such silly things like finances. Just spend whatever it takes to make you happy right now.


    I've worked in Medicare and Retirement data analytics since 2008. There are an awful lot of people who are really struggling to survive on social security and even that is not guaranteed for future generations.


    I also think back on my life and can say that I have wonderful memories from every period of my life and I am glad that living in a tiny house with a junky, old kitchen didn't stop me from enjoying the company of friends and family. I honestly don't think that the color of my kitchen cabinets or countertops has anything to do with building happy memories.

  • 2 years ago

    @Beth H. : Googled "What is the average return of the S&P 500 for the last 10 years?"

    "The historical average yearly return of the S&P 500 is 11.888% over the last 10 years, as of end of September 2022. This assumes dividends are reinvested. Adjusted for inflation, the 10-year average return (including dividends) is 9.181%." Oct 1, 2022


    No guarantees in life, but 6% isn't an unreasonable expectation.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    @ Jen Hogan

    Do not twist my words, please.................

    "Do what makes you happy for the next seven. Forget anything/ any amount of $$ that prevents you from enjoying all the other aspects of your life."

    "That prevents"........ Don't bet the ranch. Don't spend that which will make you worry. Don't spend what you will need for A.N.Y. other important thing going forward. Period.

    Why? Because nobody has a crystal ball. For interest rates, disasters of any kind, or your own good health.

    Twisting my words is exactly what you did. Quite intentionally.

  • 2 years ago

    I love those last two pictures Beth presented. The mid century tile (black and white design) with the white countertops, especially.

  • 2 years ago

    @JAN MOYER - I apologize if I misinterpreted your words and thank you for the clarification. It really did sound to me as though you were saying to forget (about) anything/ any amount of $$ that prevents you from being happy with your kitchen over the next 7 years.


    The written word is often not as clear as the spoken word and misinterpretations can happen.

    I assure you, it was not an intentional.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    For anyone who thinks their home is an "investment," and that they'll get a return on it (ROI), read this:

    https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-your-house-is-not-an-investment

  • 2 years ago

    So, I think your cabinets are the best part. I know it may feel wasteful to throw out the granite, but unfortunately the truth is that getting a “painted” finish that will last you your seven years is highly unlikely unless you really pay for a professional job with a cabinet recoating process. I know because I diy my cabinets with a product supposedly made for cabinets and was meticulous and took months getting it right. But in five years it was still failing. Painting your beautiful wood, especially in a two tone will in my opinion, instantly date them as old cabinets trying to look trendy. It will make the cathedral style stand out more. And in seven years, this two tone trend may be gone. You could reface with new doors, but that will raise the price significantly more as well. And you will still have the Baltic brown granite. Why not get some estimates both ways? I think a true professional recoating job will cost you more than new countertops if you are economical with the stone you pick, no super expensive quartzite or marble. Others have already attached Pics of what could be. And if you have some wear on the wood finish (I can’t see any, but if so) you can find craftsman who refresh those areas inexpensively. Someone told you to google oak kitchens with subway. Uh no, you have beautiful maple.

    Now if you want to keep the Baltic because you love that stone, then do a simpler backsplash in the lightest shade of the stone, probably a biscuit color. Floor wise, I think you will have more options if change out the Baltic. By all means, bring home samples before you commit to a tile. Gray can be tricky, and your stone is warm

  • 2 years ago

    Step one is getting prices on every aspect of the kitchen you MIGHT want to change. As pros have said, professional cabinet paint jobs are not cheap. Stone countertops, if brand new slabs are used, are not cheap, but smaller kitchens can use remnants. Find out what your new countertop options are.

    What about the cost of a new floor? Find out.

    Do you have any DIY skills? If not, price out just the labor for a new backsplash. Then the tiles.

    Without real numbers, you can’t make an intelligent decision for yourselves. And for everyone guessing at the return on investment for your house, ignore that. Any house is only worth what that market will bear AT THE TIME OF SALE. I know, because my husband and I lost a ton of money on a fully renovated home in a high income area. And it took a LONG time to sell.

    Moral of the post: Do what makes you happy and you can afford.

  • 2 years ago

    Wow, there’s just so many comments here, and I appreciate them all! And the passion in which everyone has replied… Here’s what I’m thinking:).

    The floors were among the best thing we chose when we built the house in 1998. They don’t show anything, dirt or otherwise. But over time and as the cabinets aged, they look so out of place. And this takes a lot for me to say as I love green, a lot. Everyone has convinced me that wood look tile is not the way to go, so I will explore replacing them with something neutral and in a larger tile (12x24?) as the space is very large. We will not do this work ourselves.

    I really didn’t think the backsplash was awful until several of you posted images with either the detail removed or with it completely replaced. I think this might be the best first part of this project. I would love to whitewash them as a trial, but I believe I won’t be able to as there’s a high gloss finish on them, but I will explore. We did the backsplash ourselves so replacing something simpler is well within our wheelhouse.

    Once I do the above, then I will contemplate whether painting just the uppers a shade of white leaving the maple on the bottom. I do know that it cannot be any of the bright whites given the BB. My reasoning for this is that there are just so many cabinets and painting the uppers might give your eyes a break. This is especially so around the fridge. Given that there are way more cabinets than we need and use, I am thinking that removing the cabinets to the left of the sink might make the space more open. I don’t need that cabinet and would tile up to the ceiling and around the window. I would then install floating shelves. That cabinet appears lonely and has been weird since we installed the pendants over the peninsular. They were previously recessed lighting.

    Hardware and lighting will be done, and we also have under cabinet lighting, but I can look to see about the bulb brightness. I’ll also switch out the closers to soft ones.

    So after all the valuable comments I think I will take it one step at a time.

    1. address the backsplash, which if that means replacing, decide if the cabinet to the left of the sink is replaced with floating shelves beforehand so the tile can go up to the ceiling
    2. determine if I want to replace the floor
    3. install new lighting; wait on the hardware until I determine if I should paint the uppers
    4. figure out if painting the uppers a warm white will reduce the mass of cabinets and orange tones.

    The obvious elephant in the room is the BB counters. Honestly, I despise the thought of the counters being discarded and my original plan and mock up was an attempt to work with them. It’s really not about the money, although obviously a full gut would probably be in the vicinity of $75k and not what I would like to spend for my non forever home. Thoughts on my plan?

  • 2 years ago

    Your DIY skills makes the plan better than it would be if you had to pay for professional help. Didn’t know you can afford to remove upper cabinets (most people don’t have enough storage) so that brings in a whole new element - open shelves.

    I’m still in the “leave the wood alone” department. I would resort to painting the cabinets as a last decision. Personally, I think upper whites and lower wood is a look that will seem dated very soon.

    Your plan sounds terrific. You must keep us in the loop!

  • 2 years ago

    I have the exact same style of cabinets as you do. Mine are oak and are more on the yellow side. I am going thru the same dilemma as you are. We want to change the tile floor but not sure how to replace flooring under cabinets without destroying the granite. The granite is okay but I would like to update it. On the other hand my husband can’t understand changing it out if it is still in good shape.
    We are looking at possibly replacing cabinets to shaker style but I’m just so torn changing the oak doors to a HDF painted door. My cabinets are 22 years old and in good shape, so worried the white painted will not hold up as well.

    Do your tiles go under the cabinets? If so you may have to take counters off and move lower cabinets to remove all the tile.
    Also you can paint your backsplash. My sister painted hers many years ago. You just need to do a light sanding, use a good primer and then paint. You can try that first before you rip it out. You will still see the diamond pattern but it will be one consistent colour.

  • 2 years ago

    Your countertops could be reused in your basement or garage, as can older cabinets. They make great work surfaces for lots of projects.


  • 2 years ago

    We have an accessory dwelling unit in our basement (thankfully with a modern and not off putting Silestone) so reuse won’t happen there. We have a vacation house but BB would not fit.

  • 2 years ago

    @Tina my floors do not go under my cabinets. If I recall, my builder wanted to get ahead and install the cabinets. I think a good tile installer could make it work?

  • 2 years ago

    The obvious elephant in the room is the BB counters. Honestly, I despise the thought of the counters being discarded

    But why? You have gotten two decades of service out of them. They started out as a rock and they are still just rock. A million years from now, they will still be rocks. Rocks minding their own business and not polluting anything.

  • 2 years ago

    If you can't use them there is always someone who will be grateful for them.


    My brother and sister-in-law recently renovated their kitchen. They brought the cabinets to my house since I am doing a lot of renovations and they thought I may be able to use some of them.


    I could use 3 in my laundry room and thought I would put the rest in my basement to store tools and such, but then I was told by the guy I hired to move all the cabinets about a family with 3 kids who took out their cabinets because they were literally falling apart. The only cabinet they kept was the one that houses the sink. All their dishes and silverware are in plastic totes on plastic shelves. I am keeping the 3 for my laundry room, but the rest are going to that family.


    When my sister and her husband moved to an assisted living apartment I hired some guys to haul away her old mattress and a bunch of other stuff that we felt was so old and worn out no one would want them. One of the young men asked if my sister would mind if he kept her old mattress. I told him it was pretty old and worn out and not very comfortable and he told me that he has been sleeping on the floor and doesn't have a bed or mattress.


    As long as there are people who don't have cabinets in their kitchens or beds to sleep on or may be using plywood for counters there is no reason to fill our landfills with useable materials.


  • 2 years ago

    I suggest you replace the backsplash with a white subway tile. This will update your kitchen by a few decades and give you a whole new look.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Or as I have been known to say:

    The damn things owe you not one thin DIME. Yes......free yourself, and don't apologize.

  • 2 years ago

    The title of your dilemma says everything we need to know - and how you feel. Find a way to repurpose the countertop if those brown counters are preventing you from getting the kitchen you want. As I said earlier, your DIY skills put you in a great position financially. Some of us can’t do half the work you have done!

    Someone will be grateful for your Baltic brown granite. Rethink your plan with a new countertop and tell us what it would be….

  • 2 years ago

    I wonder if someone (Jennifer) might want to run the numbers on a return for an investment of $75K full gut of the kitchen for Jo-Ann.


    Jo-Ann, could you say what the overall style of your house is? By the date and cabinets, I am guessing a neo-colonial. ?? And are you in a suburban area of a large city with a relatively above average market that could be expected to give a good return on a kitchen upgrade?


    I am going this direction, because it seems to me that you have not been very certain about what it is in your kitchen you are willing to sacrifice. And you hate the countertop most of all but it seems to be the last thing you will sacrifice. Your statements seem very much in conflict with each other on every front. In addition, I have read more than once various advisors in other posts say that piecemeal renovations often end up disappointments. 


    So consider for 24 hours a complete renovation into the current popular updates. And consider it an investment in you house. Consider replacing your floor with an engineered hardwood like white oak…all the rage. And then replace your traditional faced cabinets with Shaker cabinets in white or pale grey all the way to the ceiling. Get rid of your peninsula, appliance garage and desk (all nice but dated) and replace them with the newly deified island and coffee bar. Make your island cabinets the dark green you love. Throw a marble counter on top of the cabinets with marble as your backsplash to the bottoms of your upper cabinets (no higher, as that fad won't last). Hang pendants over your island, and call it an update.


    Quit agonizing over how to update when you cannot possibly do so piecemeal. How many pictures shown to you with a tile backsplash (dated now) and wood cabinets show your traditional style doors? No, they are all Shaker. Make a complete update. Enjoy it for a few years then high-tail it out of there.


    Or ignore me. No problem.

  • 2 years ago

    You can look at it this way: wouldn't the time, trouble, and expense to get the kitchen to coordinate better with the counter, be pretty equivalent to just replacing the counter?


  • 2 years ago

    Thanks, Jennifer! So, to understand, would replacing the peninsula with and island still be a minor kitchen remodel as long as the island doesn't have the sink which would require plumbing? If so, Jennifer's article indicates a 71% return for investment for just replacing everything for a complete update. Whereas a piecemeal update where you still have a lot of dated elements will still look dated. But if you are going to do just one thing, replace the thing you hate… the counter and backsplash.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    The important number , unless you own the crystal ball? Is what you can very safely spend without sleepless nights, selling your grandchildren. Wise is to pretend you're lending money to a total deadbeat, and the money is gone forever. Do what fits into that dollar amount and makes you happy in that kitchen.

    Jen has no crystal ball . These are not "usual" times, at all. One person's 40 k, is 400k. to another. Spend is relative to the total purse you enjoy.............and happiness is largely a decision.( Ie " I choose to be happy" ) not a guarantee in this life. Plenty of folks are happy, despite miserable kitchens, and many other far worse things.

  • 2 years ago

    By the way… To the experts in this discussion… What is next after Shaker cabinets? I read this weekend that dark wood and stained glass are coming in 2023. But I did not read that Shakers were leaving. Also, while Shakers seem to have replaced raised panel doors in the traditional kitchen, slabs still keep chugging along in various forms. I'm asking this in case Jo-Ann decides to replace the cabinets and is concerned about not just replacing one dated look for another.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    If the OP has 30, 40, 50, 60 70 80 90 K she will not EVER MISS? And if a "gut" of the kitchen thrills the op? Proceed in doing the style elements that thrill the op. Not the next owner.

    That would require the very same crystal ball needed for a return on the money spent. The same crystal ball needed to deduce what the next owner wants. The same crystal ball to determine what anyone, anywhere will think is very cool in seven years. Making it a dumb conversation at some point. : )

  • 2 years ago

    The hardest thing about the conversation to me is that Jo-Ann doesn't seem to know what she wants. Therefore, my top choice is do nothing and invest in the next place. That advice being ignored, I throw into the mix the concept of a complete re-do for comparison.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Jo Ann wants PERMISSION. Only Jo Ann can provide it. Move on: ) or the dead horse will begin to decompose

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I'm not that keen on the floor but with the big U shape and the other side of kitchen along with it.....new counters and backsplash would be the ticket for the biggest transformation within the framework of "reasonable " Not in favour of alterations to cabinets. I think w new floor mats you could leave the floor for the time being. Pause after new counters and splash and come back to the floor. New products keep entering the marketplace and 18 mo to 2 yr holding off will reveal some good options when/if you begin that part...... and you can keep an eye out for flooring sale pricing w the downturn approaching as well. Go for it and get new counters and a splash...this is at eye level / many have gone this route in similar situations. if you want to save put some Ikea butcher block on the fridge side ..its not a wet area and a logical "break" for a different/cheaper surface. not sure about the desk zone. a little"push" to do this is in order..........the counters are about 20 yrs old...if you dont do it when this supposed 7 yrs rolls around they will be nearly 30 yrs .....I wouldnt say "love" but why not get the enjoyment???? here are some open shelves...you could take some cabinets down left of fridge [leave one double door cab] .....do like this and w butcher block counters make a nice change in venue there. not difficult.

    Liddy · More Info

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Hi Jo-Ann

    Good news! Your kitchen has both beauty and quality. You simply have an imbalance. And honestly I think it’s easier to fix than you realize.

    Visually your kitchen is ‘weighty’ w wall-to-wall cabinets and ‘busy’ w too many patterns. The desk design is passé and dating things. So is placing a microwave over a stove. Finally, you have no focal point.

    First let’s remove and minimize. Yes the backsplash must go. But so should some of the upper cabinets. This will open the room up.

    The cabinets to the left and right of the window-gone! The passé desk-gone! Take down the microwave and cabinet above it too! Now hire a cabinet maker or carpenter to rework a new base cabinet from the unused cabinets for your new microwave station where your desk was.

    Once your existing backsplash is gone, replace it (counter to ceiling) w a light color (warm-not yellow-off white). A very simple shape, quiet static design (no zigzag or running board design), nothing too small (too busy) and no contrasting grout. I see a matte finish. This will lift the heaviness of the brown and minimize patterns.

    Now create a focal point-your windows can be the star of the show.
    I would love to see more windows. Especially if your home is sided, a bank of windows it’s not that expensive, especially if they’re double Hungs or you use a picture/stationary window in part of the grouping. But regardless add some interest. Paint either the interior sash and grid, or the wood casing/trim around the window in a contrast color. This will draw the eye to the windows. You could play it safe with black or charcoal but you could have some fun with may be a deep dark green. (I remember someone commented the green never went. How can green not go with brown? Look outside trees are green and brown. Green is natures neutral.)

    Here’s what I wouldn’t do. Do not paint those cabinets. You will never be able to recreate as durable finish like the factory finish. Also natural wood will become extremely prized in the near future. Everyone’s kitchen is white right now but that is starting to fade. Young people, who will be your most likely buyer of your home in seven years, are up-cycling, shopping resale and discovering antiquing. They will love the quality of your natural stained cabinets. (White kitchens are lovely but we don’t want to be clones either.)

    You’ll probably want to change hardware and your pendant lights. But I would keep my hardware simple-let it blend into the cabinet-keep the noise down-you still have a lot of patterns between the countertop, the wood grain and the ceramic floor. But what I’m proposing I think will cost you around $5K. May be a bit more by the time you add the hood. Or have your carpenter make you something encased in wood and paint to blend w your new backsplash.

    Essentially if you don’t like the granite and you don’t like the cabinets, no matter what you do you’re not going to absolutely fall in love with the kitchen. However there are still plenty to like about the kitchen. The amount of counter space is fabulous and everything appears to be quality.

    I found a picture in my catalog of a very neutral backsplash. The focal in this kitchen is its 10 foot ceilings enhanced with wood and beams. But notice how the windows are a secondary focal. Essentially the cabinets blend in with the backsplash and the floor. It’s quiet and soothing. Not a lot of competition between the cabinets floor ceiling and countertops. It’s unfortunate it’s hard to find professionally designed and photographed kitchens that have normal proportions. But I’m sure you can catch what I’m trying to explain.

  • 2 years ago

    Thank you, Jan. I needed that.

  • 2 years ago

    @K L Here is a better link to the same data: https://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2022/


    ROI is only part of the picture. It also depends on how much time you spend in your kitchen. I have friends who seldom cook. I knew one person who took the kitchen out of her tiny apartment and converted it to an office. She only ever made coffee or toast - ordered food every night. My mom was the extreme opposite, she prepared and served breakfast and dinner for 12 or more people. She lived in our kitchen, spent at least 6 hours a day in the kitchen, baked bread from scratch, canned fruit and vegetables, made homemade jams and jellies, baked deserts from scratch, made soups from scratch. . .


    The ROI for both of these women was less important than their needs for their home to function.

    Only the OP knows how much time she spends in her kitchen and how unhappy her kitchen makes her.

  • last year

    Old post - did you ever make a decision? I have BB granite, and it’s a struggle to work with! I decided against a full backsplash since the colors were heavy enough. My BB looks fantastic with this cherry/cognac cabinet color, but not so great with the orange/peach undertone floors. My next step will be to keep the granite and cabinets, but replace the floors with a porcelain hex tile that will be closer to the same undertone as the BB.

  • last year

    Angie - if you don’t get an update from the original poster, you should start your own. There are so many talented people here who are happy to help you find a good floor color for your house.

  • last year

    Yes, and you’re lucky to not have a backsplash! We decided to paint the backsplash BM White Dove along with the upper cabinets. We are sticking with the bottoms not being painted and will make them a few shades darker to complement the Baltic Brown. I plan to sell the house in about five years so ripping and replacing is not in our plan. We also ripped out one upper to the left of the sink and will do some open shelving to break things up.

  • PRO
    last year

    Angie G., with your cabs/countertops, I'd do a solid light charcoal, 24x24" tile w/minimal grout lines.

    porcelain




    or maybe a larger hex tile 14" would work


    Or, go w/a soft griege or taupe.

    BB granite has pink undertones. choosing a griege or taupe base tile would work best w/it and your cabinets

  • 4 months ago

    Whats the name of your cabinets manufacturer please and whats the color i like them