Building a Home Appliances Design Dilemma

Task lighting help

last year

Hello,

we are nearly complete a kitchen reno and are struggling with task lights.

the lights were hard wired with line voltage vs low voltage. we only half 1/2” valences and are trying to find a low profile hard wired line task light that is only 1/2” deep

has anyone come across any? i cant find less than 1”

we dont want tonswitch to low voltage because we would need to hide transformers somewhere and dont have the space.

thank you

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Comments (10)

dan1888
last year
Hide the transformers at the back of the top shelves.
wdccruise
last year
SuperBrightLEDs.com:
- 120V LED Strip Light - White Highlight Series Tape Light - Plug and Play - 5m / 25m - High CRI - IP65 Waterproof
- GIZA LED Strip Channel - Architectural - Aluminum Surface Mount 2m
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We're coming down the home stretch for planning (thus the flurry of posts from me). Here's another one: We will have a large L-shaped island as the main work area for the kitchen. It's about 4 feet wide, with the "long" leg of the L about 12 feet long from end to the corner, and the short end about 7 feet from corner to end. My issue is light source. I need good task lighting. Since obviously I can't use UC lighting, I am depending on pendants over the island. We are debating either 4 or 5 fixtures. If 5, one would be a large decorative fixture and the others smaller pendants. What's considered the best source of light? Seems like my choices would include: 1) standard incandescent bulbs 2) incandescent reflectors (I think they are called R20, R30 etc--forgive my total lighting ignorance): either flood or spot 3) halogen reflectors (PAR20, etc?): again, flood or spot 4) low voltage halogen I assume that a fixture rated to use #1 (i.e. labelled "use up to 60W bulb") could also use the proper size and wattage of #2 or #3. They need to be dimmable and I'm not a fan of fluorescents, and am not even sure if there is such a fixture using fluors. Goal of course is good bright but not overly "spotty" lighting. Glare is a concern as we're using white Calcatta Gold marble for counter. Also: what about height above the counter. It's funny, I'm happy delving into detailed specs for appliances, cabinets, etc but lighting intimidates me. I can't figure out those charts of foot-candles and stuff that I am supposed to use to find out how to space lighting. Help, obviously, is appreciated.
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D Soro
Original Author
last year
Thanks for this. Looks like a great solution. Is the casing needed or could I just use the strips? I’m assuming the casing just provides a more finished look.

Greatly appreciate the share
3onthetree
last year
How does a 120V tape light with an integral cord solve your problem? Now you have to have a receptacle to plug this 120V tape light into. How can you hide a receptacle and plug within the confines of a 1/2" light valance? The reason direct-wire fixtures are not so slim is because it is also acting as a junction box to house the 120V wiring connection while offering protection for the wires within the fixture.

Also, I question the code compliance of an unprotected 120V fixture that can be cut with scissors. This article is a bit old, but especially read the part on "Wiring:" https://www.ecmweb.com/national-electrical-code/code-basics/article/20897204/nec-rules-for-installing-lighting-on-circuits-greater-than-30v

Notice the tape light sold by SuperBrightLEDs is not UL listed. Such is the conundrum when ordering global parts, just because a product is sold somewhere doesn't mean it is code-compliant or safe.

You have a whip sticking out of the wall waiting for a fixture. Bore a hole in the cabinet, push the whip up into it, and install a receptacle. Then you can install thin low voltage tape lights and hide the transformer in the cabinet.

Also, under cabinet lighting is predominantly accent lighting. If you are relying on it as your main task lighting, then you need to address some ceiling fixtures for function.
wdccruise
last year
@3onthetree: "This article is a bit old, but especially read the part on 'Wiring:'"

The Wiring section would seem to address cord-connected LEDs beginning with the text, "A luminaire can be cord-connected if:"
D Soro
Original Author
last year
I didn’t notice the UL rating, or lack there of

Those lights looked like you could cut them and then there is a hard wired add on

We have pots in the entire kitchen, plus an overhead pendant. These are simply task/under mount lights for additional lighting

Looks like I need to keep looking for something low profile.

Thanks,
wdccruise
last year
I used:
- RibbonFlex Home 16 ft. AC Dimmable LED Tape Light Kit
- RibbonFlex Aluminum LED Tape Light Flat Channel and Diffuser System Mounting Hardware
The transformer is small. You could put it, say, inside a cabinet and drill a hole for the wires.
3onthetree
last year
The main reason I would assume why all direct-wire fixtures would be 1" thick or greater is because it will have a 1/2" knockout to make the direct-wire connection for 120V and it's internal AWG sizes, so the 1" thick allows that cable connector to fit onto the housing. So the size is the result of following NEC on manufacturer wired lumenaires.

If you are stuck for some reason with a direct wire fixture (whip too short or something like that) then maybe look at a new valance. A picture of why the valance, or a face frame if that's what it is, is so short may bring up some ideas.

@wdccruise the section of NEC 410.62 I was getting at was the "listed" requirement of having a cord-connected fixture. The 2011 NEC that was referenced in the article I linked to (sorry was lazy so just said it was an "old" article) was revised in 2017 to include 604.100(c). Section 604 covers manufactured wired lumenaires, and the fixture linked to sold by Superbright looks to be a bit thin in wire cover to allow cutting with scissors, on 120V. Which I would guess why it is ETL listed and not UL listed. I find most electrical products originating in (designed and meant for) China for sale there or to the E.U. to only be ETL listed, never being able to meet UL listed standards.
wdccruise
last year
@3onthetree: "I find most electrical products originating in (designed and meant for) China for sale there or to the E.U. to only be ETL listed, never being able to meet UL listed standards."

From what I've (just) read, UL and ETL standards are basically the same. In addition to certifying products, UL develops the standards it uses for certification. ETL doesn't develop standards; it uses the UL ones.
kaseki
last year
A transformer need not be in the cabinet or valence area; it can be almost anywhere and the wiring brought to the cabinets. The wiring may need to be fused and properly protected* against damage, but it can extend some distance between transformer and lighting. Note that door bell wiring is 24Vac, as is thermostat wiring, and those wire paths are typically long.

* "Protected" means, for example, not leaving a wire-pair accessible somewhere that could end up bearing the load of having something hanging from it.

Task lighting help

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dan1888

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