It is difficult enough to accept deaths from natural disasters such as hurricanes. But to me, what a terrible waste to die attending a sports event. I am sad for the families of the dead.
I didn't hear anything about this. That's terrible!
Yeah I got an alert last night. Aparebtly rivalries are exceptionslly fierce in Indonesia, brawls broke out, tear gas was used, people panicked and got tranpled and suffocated trying to funnel out the exits. Unreal.
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What do You Think, 2020?
CBS said it was at least 174 and that more injured were expected to die.
This is making Roman gladiator fights seem tame.
You'll never see me anywhere near a sports stadium of any kind, and that includes bullfighting arenas.
Using tear gas on an enclosed crowd just made matter worse and did not help calm down the situation. Gasping for air only added to the panic.
Rowdyism is not restricted to Third World countries.
Europe has been plagued by it for many years and only in the past few decades has the escalation of countermeasures been effective.
It's been a particular problem that I know of in Britain (mostly England) and Southern Italy. In some countries (I know the Netherlands and Belgium are on this list), there are high fences in front of the first row to keep spectators off the field. Seating areas for visiting fans (ie, those supporting the team playing the home team, which are sold by the visiting team to its own fans) are set apart, also often by high fences. I remember once going to a match in a large stadium in Germany where the fans of the visiting team, whose color was red, were in a seating area that formed a red large pie shape in the rounded corner part of the seating, surrounded by most everyone else in the stadium wearing blue. In England, when you go to a match, you quickly realize by seeing the color of clothing worn by patrons that at the pubs near the stadium (where traditionally spectators spend a few hours before a match), some are designated for home team supporters only and others for fans of the visiting team. I've also seen police paddy wagons with riot equipment-ready police standing nearby, prepared to react to any trouble.
Beatings and individual deaths are not uncommon in Italy, usually from encounters of rival fans. Fights are common in public areas when there are international matches when, as an example, rowdy and overly alcohol-fueled British fans may get into trouble with locals. At such times, in most countries police presence and visibility in downtown restaurant and bar areas is substantially enhanced.
Something to look forward to in 2026 when the US, Canada, and Mexico host the FEMA World Cup. I'll have a front row view of the mayhem since Kansas City was selected as one of the host cities.
At least I will be retired by then and will stay far away from the city.
It's FIFA that oversees the game worldwide and puts on the World Cup every 4 years. FIFA is the abbreviation for the world governing body's name in French, which in English is the International Federation of Association Football. The formal name for the game of soccer (football in most of the rest of the world) is "association football", to distinguish it from rugby football.
As I mentioned above, crowd control in most of the developed world is quite different from what's found in poorer countries. The US hosted the World Cup in 1994 and I saw Brazil, the ultimate winners, play a match in the first round at Stanford in Palo Alto. The crowd was peaceful and fun-loving, a wonderful spectacle of people from all over the world interacting in a friendly way. There were various events and attractions offered on the stadium grounds before the match so most people came several hours early. Police were everywhere and the crowd was well behaved. I don't think you have much to worry about.
For soccer fans, the 2022 installment of the World Cup is coming up next month from Qatar. The controversies and corruption that seem to have led to this location decision remain unresolved.
It runs from mid-November to mid-December. The format is always the same, the regional soccer associations hold qualifying tournaments in the years running up to the Cup to choose which countries get to go. The two strongest regions are Europe and South America, followed by Africa, perhaps Asia, then perhaps the region we're in (North and Central America and the Caribbean) and then last, Oceana (Australia, NZ, and Pacific Island nations). Despite being in one of the weaker conferences, from which the 3 highest finishers in the tournament get to go and the fourth has a consolation possibility, the US struggles to qualify and did not participate in the last two World Cup finals. The US team did qualify for this tournament, but few expect it to do well.
The US is uncompetitive in men's soccer at the world level. While soccer is the sport so many children play from age 5-8 and some beyond, young boys move into other sports that are more popular and leave soccer. Baseball, football, basketball, and even hockey in some areas are the traditional draws. Elsewhere around the world, soccer is the most popular sport almost everywhere and that's where the best athletes in most countries wind up. Not here and I doubt that will ever change.
Thanks for correcting my spelling of FIFA and pointing out the obvious Elmer. You surely could do it in fewer words though.
I'm working on achieving more brevity, in real life too. I hope for progress first, results later.
As far as what's obvious. even among enthusiastic American soccer fans, what you suggest as being obvious seems not to be so to the extent you or I would think it would be. Unrealistic expectations are common, even in the face of failing to qualify the last two cycles and barely qualifying this time. We came close to this being the third time in a row the team failed. For 2018, we came in 5th in the final qualifying round of 6,. Panama came in third and went, Honduras in 4th qualified for a playoff consolation avenue. There's a message in how consistently poorly the US does that many don't want to hear.
At least the US squad will make the 2026 World Cup since we are hosting. I like watching it but a month of soccer every 4 years is enough for me.
I get that. Every 4 years is about right for me too. It's my favorite sport but as with other "favorite" things, having too much of anything can be worse than none at all. The first round, there can be 3 matches per day (none at the same time) then several days of 4 on the last day for each pair of groups. There have been 4 World Cups since I retired but I learned with the first one that just because I had time to spend all day watching matches didn't mean it was a good idea. I pick and choose what I watch and enjoy seeing highlights of any others that interest me.
I'm indifferent about the US team. The soccer world knows of its mediocrity (even if most Americans don't) and I find watching its frequently bumbling and inept play a reminder I don't need to have. That it seems to maintain a relatively high FIFA ranking though the years is puzzling.
So awful, ”World soccer’s governing body FIFA specifically prohibits “firearms or ‘crowd control gas’… carried or used” to maintain order at a game — which local officials contradicted with deadly consequences.”
It sounds to me like the fans of the opposing teams already hate each other, for reasons that I am not aware of or understand. This is probably why I have zero interest in team sports or any kind. I can appreciate individual sports, but I absolutely do not understand the appeal or motivation of team sports.
You don’t see women causing many post-game stampedes, do you?
Men, alcohol, professional sports. 👎
Give them time.
^^^ women get right in there fighting to buy carp during black Friday. There's been numerous stampedes and fights over buying...stuff. 👎
I don’t see anyone dying in that picture, Sephia.
Google can be your best friend here. There have been deaths from people rushing to get into stores to shop. To buy stuff.
Comment deleted; no point in arguing with someone’s agenda.
🤣 Guess you're going to rely on your memory vs. Google. Okay 🙄
Like Lars said, give them time.
There was some on-field scuffling from fans of rival teams. What killed 170 plus people was the cops firing tear gas into a crowded area with limited escape routes. It was the subsequent crush of people trying to escape that actually killed people, not any on field violence. If you go back and look at the Hillsborough disaster, it was bad security management, crowd crushes and the security fencing that killed people, not actual crowd violence.
Oh, and by the way, the game is "football." It's only called "soccer" in North America these days.
or futbol in Mexico and several other Latin countries.
"Comment deleted; no point in arguing with someone’s agenda."
"Men, alcohol, professional sports."👎
And I have an agenda?
Fútbol is just the Spanish spelling for the Spanish pronunciation of the English word football. And since the writer might have been American, and writing for an American audience, using soccer instead of football is appropriate.
REALLY people DIED and you are quibbling about the name of the sport!??? And we wonder about how easily we embrace our culture of death. Soo sad for the families. A day of fun turned evil.
It's a side discussion, don't get exercised about the diversion.
"the game is "football." It's only called "soccer" in North America these days."
This comment from an Oz resident Canadian got my attention. I know several Oz-resident Aussies (as opposed to expats) I'm in regular contact with and I've discussed this very thing with one of them before. I was told that the word he uses and hears most often for this game in Australia is "soccer".
A visit to Wikipedia, for the entry "Football in Australia", led me to the following sentence, confirming what I was told:
"As is the case in the United States and Canada, association football is most commonly referred to in Australia as soccer"
Wiki page for Football in Australia (several different kinds)
Another factoid I forgot to mention in the preceding comment:
Many national teams have common nicknames, like
England - The Three Lions
France - Les Bleus (the Blues)
Italy - Azzuri (same, the Blues)
Costa Rica - Los Ticos - Ticos is Spanish slang for people from CR
Egypt - The Pharaohs
Belgium- The Red Devils (with versions in both French and Flemish)
Argentina - la Albiceleste (white and sky blues, the jersey color)
South Africa - Bafana Bafana (The Boys, The Boys, in Zulu)
The Australian men's team is called the Socceroos. Colorfully, the women's team is called The Mathildas (from the song), having been changed from the "Female Socceroos" 25 years ago (from Wikipedia for the female name).
"This comment from an Oz resident Canadian got my attention. I know several Oz-resident Aussies (as opposed to expats) I'm in regular contact with and I've discussed this very thing with one of them before. I was told that the word he uses and hears most often for this game in Australia is "soccer".
Either you're out of touch with your friend, or he's out of touch with the Australian football community. I can assure, real football aficionados here are determined to take the name "football" back from the other codes. And by the way, I'm not exactly an "expat"and I have an Australian passport to prove it.
Let's get back to the point. It was very poor police crowd mismanagement, not a few violent pitch invaders, that caused those deaths. This is a story that is not unique or original. Crowd crush deaths have happened all too often in football, notably at Hillsborough but also in Latin America. There's a reason the top levels of English football changed to full seating, removed standing areas, and took away fencing between the fans and the pitch. I once got caught in a crowd crush and it was terrifying. Fortunately the crowd had room to keep moving and spread out, but that is not always the case in venues with funnel type exits or fencing.
Of course you're always right, all the more so when you're not. I have two sources for my "soccer in Oz" comment, you're welcome to change the second - Wikipedia. Delete the phrase I quoted, insert your own, see how long it remains.
An expatriate is someone who lives outside of their native country, you can adjust your understanding for that one too.
And I know that getting an Australian passport is often done by those who have permanent resident status, it can be cheaper and easier. Other than the cost and the needlessly long time the government takes for processing, it's quite easy for those who qualify.
The Three Lions is not the nickname of the England men’s football Team.
I've tried to draw a soccer ball a few times in my life and always got messed up. At my ripe middle age I've finally figured out why! For those equally clueless, the pieces aren't all hexagons, just the white ones. They form rings, the center of which are the black pentagons.
I've heard it called such and that's the crest on their jerseys. Wikipedia agrees but I know better than to think that to be an always credible source.
What name are you familiar with?
(PS, if you're a fan, I think they're in big trouble for the upcoming World Cup, based on the disappointing performances in recent months)
Wiki page on England National Football Team
That's the problem with Google searches!
(My own Google search suggests the Three Lions is the governing body, and all the English teams wear the patch. But I'll happily be corrected if need be.)
Not sure if you're comment was directed in my direction, food, but as I said, I've heard them called such by indigenous natives of that remote island.
The Three Lions is the crest, but not the nickname. Wikipedia is simply wrong. Nor is it the governing body, that’s the FA. I don’t know where this weird information is coming from.
As I said, I've heard used what I accept your comment suggests is not a widely accepted term.
And Yes, it's THE FA, just like the Times of London is THE Times. Let the relative newcomers (NY Times, LA TImes) be bothered with further clarification in their names so they not be confused with THE Times.
Sorry, I misread. Is or was the crest or badge or logo or whatever of The FA. Not nickname.
But in clarifying that I see nore than a few refwrences that appear to read as the Three Lions being a nicknale of the national team.
Unless I'm misinterpreting again. I really don't care. If it's not one of my daughter's teams I'm probably not paying attention.
And yes, Elmer, my prior comment was directed at you due to your regular scoffing of googled information.
My scoffing, food, if that's the right term, comes when people misrepresent what they're saying (because they don't cite a source, something I always try to do when applicable) AND, more importantly, when they mistake a word match for a substantive and relevant content match. This second one is more common - search findings are word matches, not knowledge, not insights or understanding. Findings need to be put into context and integrated, something that's usually not possible or done when the searcher knows little about the subject matter.
Thanks Elmer I'll be on the lookout for that nuance.