SHOP BY DEPARTMENT
Houzz Logo Print
bookreply

BM Advance Chantilly Lace paint will yellow like oil paint???? HELP!!!

bookreply
2 months ago

Was told by a BM manager that white Advance paint will yellow over time and is noticeable. That is what alkyd paints do.


I've spent weeks reading blogs, buying Samplize samples, and reading Houzz discussions and have decided on Chantilly Lace for kitchen cabinets. So many of the others (White Dove, Cloud White, Simply White, SW pure white, and other whites} look terrible in my space. I can notice the slight yellow hue all day, but in the afternoon most looked like pale highlighter yellow!!! Not a look anybody would want. Chantilly Lace Samplize sample doesn't show yellow, just white. OK, choice made.


Then I was talking to a manager at BM who told me to expect white Advance paint to yellow over time (maybe 2 years). Just wanted me to be aware of that. That made me start searching the net and I found several discussions about this problem.


Painter recommended Advance because it goes on nicely and provides a hard, durable finish. Sounds great.... but not if it yellows. I read that in darker rooms, it yellows faster. My kitchen doesn't get much morning light, just some western light in the evening. But we have trees, treated 5' windows and a large breakfast room by the window, so direct light doesn't get on the cabinets.


What has your experience been?

Comments (31)

  • artemis78
    2 months ago

    We have 10-year-old Advance on trim and also have 16-year-old oil-based Satin Impervo in other rooms in the same color (Acadia White). Maybe the Advance yellows a bit, but nothing like the oil-based Impervo. They are markedly different side by side. I wouldn’t worry too much on that front.

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Thank you, Artemis78. Isn't Acadia White a yellowy white paint, so you wouldn't notice if it yellowed a little more? I chose Chantilly Lace because I wanted just white, no yellow. Yellow wouldn't play nicely with my backsplash and granite counter.

  • Related Discussions

    Trim color to go with BM Chantilly Lace walls

    Q

    Comments (37)
    betsydavis- We'd like some contrast - but not that much. Keep those ideas coming! You'll get more help if you start your own post with your own pictures of your room. this is a 4 yr old post that is for another poster. (no one will see your questions unless they're getting notifications from earlier comments)
    ...See More

    Need a white to go with BM Chantilly Lace

    Q

    Comments (9)
    I have chantilly lace on my kitchen cabinets as well, I have decorators white on walls in the room and nearby rooms. The decorators white isn't right next to the chantilly lace, but I felt they went very well with each other and my white backsplash. The decorators white has a little more grey in it I think, but it's still a very crisp, cool white. I'm not sure about the simply white, I don't recall looking at that one as a contender in my home.
    ...See More

    Paint — BM Chantilly Lace Exterior

    Q

    Comments (13)
    no tint means just what is sounds like. they don't take off the lid and add tint to it. Even w/whites, they add tints. few drops of yellow, or black or red, blue, etc. that's how you get all these whites w/different undertones to them. If you don't add any tint, you won't get any added 'undertones' or hues to your white. grab a can off the shelf and tell them you don't want it tinted, but would like to reserve the right to come back and have tint added if the Base White doesn't work out for you. Have them shake it for you to make sure nothing has settled on the bottom. Sheen won't really affect the color. It will reflect more (the glossier sheens will). So just grab a sample can of the #1 Base, tell them you don't want it tinted but you want it shaken. go home and try it on your siding. keep the receipt in case you want to come back and add tint. (they will have to adjust the formula depending upon how much paint is left in the can)
    ...See More

    BM Chantilly lace cabinets with Simply white trim?

    Q

    Comments (9)
    I'd leave it alone and live with the creamy because at least it would be consistent. And once you get everything in place and decorated, you probably wouldn't feel the creamy as much as you are now. But to answer your question, they work because there's enough difference in Chroma. And by work I mean one should not make the other look dirty or dingy. However, yours cabinets will likely appear white and your doors and trim will be creamy/off-white And that's fine as long as you repeat the palette of creamy + white throughout the space around the cabinets. That's kind of your theme going forward for the kitchen creamy + white. Again, I think you're better off living with the decision you made but only you can make that decsion and you can make it work.
    ...See More
  • artemis78
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    It's definitely a creamier white than Chantilly Lace. The oil-based paint is decidedly yellow at this point; the Advance is more like a vanilla ice cream white. (We also have Acadia White on our cabinets in Aura, also about a decade old, and that one is the whitest of the three.)

    This photo doesn't have the greatest light, but you can see some of the contrast--door is in the Satin Impervo paint (we never got around to repainting it!) and the trim is in the Advance, same color (but at this point, clearly not...) The difference when the Advance was newly painted was pretty subtle, but now it's very evident. The Impervo has absolutely yellowed over the years; the Advance maybe has a little, but not substantially in comparison. We just used it again on a new bathroom in Swiss Coffee, which is a cool white.


  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    I'm confused. In your photo, on my computer I see an olive green wall, a pink trim piece, and a tannish pink door. Is the pink the Advanced Acadia White? Or is this a photo of some other area? I don't see Vanilla ice cream???


  • artemis78
    2 months ago

    LOL, that is poor lighting--I'll try a photo tomorrow in daylight! The actual colors are lime-ish green (BM Wales Green), creamy white, and yellow-ish white. Acadia is a warm white, but fortunately not pink in real life!

  • artemis78
    2 months ago

    Modestly (but not much!) better in morning light:


  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Thanks for the photo. That gives me a better idea. Has the Acadia White just turned yellower, or did it get darker, like brownish?

  • artemis78
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    The oil-based has gotten a little muddier in general (more yellow and also darker), but the Advance (to my eye) is mostly just the color of cream--I'd describe it as mellowing more than yellowing. A lot depends on what you're comparing it to, though--it becomes much more pronounced against true whites. For example, we have white subway tile and in one area the window sill is directly against the tile; there, you can see that the paint is not (and was never) a true white, and there's slightly more contrast than when it was brand new. We used Aura in satin on our cabinets because Advance was brand new that year and our cabinetmaker had never worked with it; our state had banned residential oil-based paints a year or two earlier. The Aura seems to have held up well 12 years later, and the color is still pretty true to the chip, so it might be a reasonable alternative to the Advance if you're concerned about it. (ETA: Our cabinetmaker sprayed it on, and I don't think you could approximate that finish with a brush.)

  • mcarroll16
    2 months ago

    You might want to ask your painter or paint store about Scuff-X. Our painter is recommending it over Advance for our trim. It's completely water-based, so no yellowing worries, and it's supposed to be pretty tough. Aura has a crazy-fast dry time. Painting cabinet doors with Aura would be really tough.

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Has your painter used Scuff-X on cabinets? I'd love to hear about it.


    I have discussed Scuff-X with my painter as he has used it several times on trim and likes it. He felt Advanced would have a harder, more durable finish on cabinets.. I found this in a positive review on the net. "The finish is luxurious, but you can't get this paint in a Brilliant White finish. In fact, it looks grey if you compare it to other brands such as Dulux Diamond. It does have a certain depth and you'll never have any issues with brush or roller marks."


    The part about Brilliant White worried me. I want to do Chantilly Lace white, and it's almost the brightest BJ has. Maybe the base paint is greyish in color??


    We were planning to use Scuff-X on the toe kick under the cabinets (my idea and painter thought that was reasonable). When I called Benjamin Moore and asked about it, they seemed to like Advance better. And they checked and only have one can of Scuff-X. Guess it isn't used much.


    But thanks for the suggestion. You've motivated me to get more info.

  • mcarroll16
    2 months ago

    Well many thanks to you for info as well. I hadn't heard about Scuff-X looking grayer. We bought factory-finished cabinets, we're only painting walls and trim. But the trim will be Chantilly Lace or White OC-151. I wouldn't want it looking gray. I will have to do more research as well.

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Please let me know what you find out. It would seem odd for a paint made for trim and doors to be unable to be tinted to a very white color. So many people use bright what for trim and doors.

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Sabrina, that kitchen is lovely!

    I am painting over existing cabinets that currently are dark cherry wood stain. I've learned a lot the past few days about Advance yellowing. Interesting things about chromophores in alkyd paint. How they react to light. They turn yellow when deprived of light. Put a white cabinet door painted with Advance in a dark closet, and it will yellow quickly. Put that same door in a very bright kitchen with lots of light, it may never yellow. Unfortunately, my cabinets are not in a very bright area.

  • PRO
    Sabrina Alfin Interiors
    2 months ago

    The question to ask your BM rep is whether there's a different BM product that would be better instead of Advance. For example, would their Aura product in Chantilly Lace work better? I don't know the answer (this is the first time I'm hearing this is an issue), so just be sure you're specifying the right base.

  • Lindsay K
    2 months ago

    Does artificial light slow the yellowing process? If so, could you add more lighting? I’d think with lots of light, the top cabinets will not yellow much…it would be the bottom ones. And maybe those you wouldn’t notice?

  • bry911
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    @bookreply - Advance is a waterborne alkyd and it is a decent coating because oil based paints have always been decent coatings.

    BM has reduced the alkyds in Advance to really slow down the yellowing, but all alkyd coatings will yellow a bit over time. Some things you should be aware of... Advance has a long recoat time which should be adhered to, and about a 30 day cure time, so you should baby your cabinets for 30 days. If the cabinets are recoated too soon, which many painters want to do, the cure time can stretch to nearly a year. Also, while oil based paints have always been good durable coatings, most new cabinets today use commercial coatings that are much stronger and don't yellow.

    Benjamin Moore has some of the best whites in the business but unfortunately they don't have a good commercial grade coating.

    Some information that would be great if you want help in your discussion with your painter...

    Are you comfortable revealing the size and cost of the job?

    Are the cabinets being sprayed on-site and is the home occupied?

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Mcarroll16, I bought a gallon of Chantilly Lace in Scuff-X eggshell and am happy to report it is bright white. Matches the chip and my Samplize sample perfectly.

    Lindsay K, some articles I read said natural light, but others also mentioned artificial. So not sure.

    The cabinets are being sprayed on-site, and the home is occupied.

  • mcarroll16
    2 months ago

    Thanks for the update! Glad to know it should be a good color on our trim. Hope you find a good overall paint for your cabinets, a much more demanding application.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Maybe show the kitchen you plan to paint? It's always a good idea to show the whole of any issue....

    Which apparently is a dark kitchen. Show it? I realize that's not the issue of alkyd vs any other. Show us the "victim"?

    I painted the cabinets in my own galley ( deprived of ALL natural light ) with oil based in a custom white nearly fifteen years ago. Have they yellowed? Perhaps. I don't notice it at all. Nor on the rest of any trim in here, which was freshened much more recently. But there is color on the walls, and we see color by comparison. Thus......still looks like a very nice "clean" white which was comprised of BM 2/3 linen and 1/3 Decorator white.

  • bry911
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    @bookreply - I do understand how difficult it is to weight conflicting information and I understand trusting the professional that you have established a good report with and who has met with you personally. However, I don't have an agenda, I try to advocate for homeowners and do know a fair bit about paint.

    Unlike others here, I don't hate Advance, it is an excellent and durable trim paint, which, of course, can be used on cabinets. Oil based paint was used on cabinets for a long time and many cabinets painted with oil based paints have lasted a long time (more than fifty years) so it can work. It is also widely available and makes a cabinet change a reasonable project for many people. However, it isn't a good commercial/industrial type coating. As someone who worked in coatings research and development, I am not necessarily a fan of Eric Reason's testing, but sometimes the results are hard to dispute.



    I generally tell people to find a painter who is deliberate in their coatings choice. I am not a fan of telling homeowners they should use Milesi, Renner, Envirolak, etc. I am a fan of telling homeowners to find a painter who can discuss why they chose the product they have chosen over other high quality products, and avoid painters who limit their choices to products they can easily get on account.

    ---

    Honestly, even Kem-Aqua Plus is going to give you the durability of a lacquer in an inexpensive non-yellowing coating that can be sprayed in a home and can be ordered at any Sherwin Williams. Kem-Aqua Plus begins as the whitest coating I have ever sprayed and stays white. I made the mistake of shooting it untinted once and ended up having to spray all the trim in the house with it because I couldn't find any other paint that was nearly as white (BM wasn't even close).

    ---

    Having said the above, the details of your situation do matter. If this is the only painter that will prep and spray the cabinets in your budget and you want the change enough to sacrifice some durability, Advance is a decent coating. I am not a fan of Scuff-X for cabinets, it is a great product but doesn't have the durability of Advance.

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Bry11, I appreciate the level-headed information and very polite post. I'm shying away from Advance because it will yellow. I chose Chantilly Lace white because it is white with no yellow undertones. I will look into the Kemaqua plus and what colors SW offers.


    Have you encountered someone who had a problem with Scuff-X? I know there is a potential problem if you get a lot of hand oil around the knobs. But I haven't seen any posts from someone that happened to, and I don't think that would be a problem at our house. I'm a little nervous painting the cabinets bright white and like the idea that Scuff-X will protect against rubs and abrasions.



  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    You still have not posted the victim kitchen. I think Advance is fabulous paint. For all we know? You shouldn't attempt such a bright white. Many folks have been deterred from a path they were convinced was the best one.

    I realize, you want white. Please show share, the existing condition.

    Why would I ask such a thing? Going to have to trust me and the rest of the group on that.

    Back to the yellow "thing" .

    My own in OIL..ave been wiped, washed, scrubbed about a thousand times, and that doesn't count the wipe of the chocolate spatter or other. I'd far rather a subtle change over time that honestly I do NOT even notice, than chips and dings and wear away.. White needs a wipe often, especially knobs. Why? the novelty of new wears off quickly. You have to live.

  • bry911
    2 months ago

    @bookreply - I have not personally had any problems with Scuff-X, but I wouldn't use it to spray cabinets and so I am unlikely to see the problems first hand.

    I am aware that it has poor resistance to the oils present on skin, but my concern is that it is a brittle coating and can have problems with chipping, especially on edges. It is basically a coating where the crosslinking is much stronger than the adhesion, which makes it resistant to scratching but susceptible to chipping.

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Bry11, that's good to know about Scuff-X. Guess I 'd better rethink Advance since it is actually formulated for cabinets. But I'm still shying away from white as the manager at benjamin moore told me it will yellow and I've read numerous posts about that.


    Jan Moyer, I've been away from home for a few days, but am returning tonight. I will try to get some photos posted tomorrow and get your view on other possible light colors besides white.

  • bry911
    2 months ago

    Advance is formulated for cabinets. It is just an improvement of oil based paint and is practically the only coating actually designed for wood products.

    2k poly's, which are the gold standard for cabinets, were "formulated" as an automotive coating and used for cabinets. In fact, every coating used for cabinets for the last 50 years was originally "formulated" for automotive.

    ---

    Advance is certainly not the most durable coating available for cabinets and I wouldn't recommend it. However, let's not claim that it wasn't designed for cabinets when all the other coatings were not even designed for wood.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    2 months ago

    Still don't see the victim kitchen : ) in a picture?

  • PRO
    Floored You: TileDesigners
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    I know many cabinet refinishers who can produce better finishes than the factory produced. They will all spray the 2K type of paint. Advance is for a novice DIYer. Scuff X is for the uninformed DIYer.

    Eric Reason's video.

  • bry911
    2 months ago

    Yes! Many cabinet refinishers will achieve incredible results spraying 2 component polyurethane's and 2 component conversion varnishes in a home... whether or not they should.


    Let's not forget that Conversion Varnish uses synthetic formaldehyde and will offgas for years, not to mention that Conversion Varnish is lovingly referred to by many painters as canned respiratory distress. Stick your head in a cabinet freshly painted with conversion varnish and win a free trip to the emergency room and a nice lecture from a doctor.

    Not to be outdone, 2k poly's have isocyanates. While isocyanates are used in small amounts and are only dangerous for a while (while aerosolized), they are quite dangerous. The deadliest industrial accident in history was the accidental release of aerosolized Methyl Isocyanate which injured over half a million people and killed several thousand.

    I am generally OK with 2k polyurethane's being sprayed in a home that will be vacant for the entire painting process and a couple of days after, but in my experience painters often adopt products and skip the safety precautions. Which is fine so long as the homeowner is aware of the dangers, but they are too often left in the dark.

    ---

    If this were my house, I would look into Envirolak 200, but still take a few days away.

  • bookreply
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Bry911, you have a wealth of knowledge and I really appreciate your posts. I've learned so much. Thanks for sharing.

  • PRO
    Floored You: TileDesigners
    2 months ago

    All of the refinishes that I know seal off the area, and have filtered air in and out both. It's the only responsible way for a pro to do it.