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Residential Engineering Dismay

User
last year

I was wondering if anyone can tell me how long it take to get a letter from a structural engineer? I hired a reputable company over a year ago and the (very expensive) report I got was so basic I couldn’t even do anything with it. I couldn’t even file a complaint against my builder with it so they had to come back out. I needed to get as built plans because nothing about my house is like the plans or materials. The engineer really pushed for me to get a lawyer because of how unsafe the house is bottom to top. So I did that but the lawyer would only do a consult of my engineer could be in the meeting and give details on my house. Now this is a second consult because the first one is where I found out the initial report wasn’t enough. When I was finally able to set up a meeting with the engineer, lawyer and myself the engineer basically just kept saying how bad the house is but didn’t have a report or anything. The lawyer told me he couldn’t do anything for me. Not long after I got a bill thinking there had to be some kind of report for me to at least file a complaint but I knew there wasn’t as built report because that information wasn’t gathered during the either visit. I can’t he anyone to respond back. He and others at his company has told me, other engineers and building contractors how unsafe the house in mentioning things like tear down and condemned and that I should leave but yet no report and no contact in over a month. I have now missed deadlines for things and I’m scared to be in the house. It has been 4 1/2 months since he was last at my house and the combination of visits, report and meetings have cost me $2,500 with nothing to show for it. Is that normal? I don’t think it is but it’s not like I hire an engineer regularly. My builder and the community think that I am lying about the condition or the house. I have been bullied and harassed over all this. I’m a disabled medically retired veteran and have to work on the house 7 days a week up to 9 hours a day and it’s really taking its toll on my health. I can’t hire contractors because I have been blocked by the community. All of this and more just because I don’t have a report. The house is three years old. None of the documents with the city/county even come close to matching my house. Code enforcement is a joke, just trying to cover their own a$$. Does anyone know what I can do? Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Comments (67)

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    Oh man that sucks. He was always so nice. I want to use that or any type of review as last possible option. He really did seem to care and then all of the sudden radio salience from the entire firm.

  • rockybird
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I think you need a new attorney. I would hire a new construction attorney. Are you saying the city signed off on the permits for this house? I would make sure that the new atty understands this as well as the discrepancies on the plans. I am wondering if the engineer does not want to get involved from a legal standpoint, ie as an expert witness. If you did not receive a report, then I would ask for the report again or for a refund for that portion of the bill. (But I will say that $2500 sounds very low). Was he really supposed to issue a report, or was he actually documenting issues for the attorney? Did the attorney recommend him? It sounds like you need to first start with a new attorney. He may have an engineer that he can recommend. He should advise you on how to proceed. I'm sorry you are in this position.

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  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    No, I found the lawyers. It was hard to find one I could even get an appointment with because of how complicated it is and that I don’t have an updated report. I was supposed to get a report, but he was supposed to come for several visits to do all the as built stuff. He just never did. I asked over and over again when he was going to be back and all he said (if he responded) was he was super busy. He made it clear he didn’t want me to give up and the only reason they weren’t suggesting condemnation is because the responsibility would fall completely on me. I have tried to make contact with him, the office manager, the owner and receptionist and all I got was the manager saying he would look into what’s going on. Nothing from anyone else. The last contact I had with the engineer was over a month ago once again saying how busy he is but this time he suggested I just sell it. I was pretty shocked. I have probably sent 20 emails since trying to find out what’s going on. I have tried to be understanding about being busy. But with him saying how bad the house is I’m really concerned and I told him that I was scared. He knows that I’ve had to sleep in my vehicle and the garage to get away from the mold. He know what a physical tole this is taking on me and my doctors have warned me I’m not going to be able to walk anymore much longer. I have told him if he was that busy to let me know so I can go elsewhere. There is no question that I was supposed to have a report, it was going to be a series of reports to get the ball rolling legally. I have asked many times for a refund since I guess I’m not getting anything. I just can’t get a response. For me it’s not as easy a just getting in my vehicle and going to the office because it’s 1 1/2 round trip. Heck I can’t even get to my mailbox but twice a week and it’s in front of my house. Permits were approved but my confusion is the permits don’t match any of the build, electrical, plumbing etc. Also starting before permits. Usually it takes 6+ months for one of his houses. Mine is one of the largest, on the largest lot and steepest slope. It took 3 months. I found out the GC was building his own house quite far from mine at the same time. I wonder if that’s where my materials and finishes went. He was never on site and his regular crew was at his house. I really don’t have the ability to keep going with this for many reasons. I just didn’t know how long to wait for a report. I kind of already knew the answer I just wanted verification I guess. At least I’m past the really dark place I was in with the name calling and harassment. It’s pretty bad when the builder says he won’t fix things because I’m disabled or give me the ADA house it was supposed to be. He just offered me 5k to sign a nondisclosure statement which I wouldn’t

  • millworkman
    last year

    "He was always so nice. I want to use that or any type of review as last possible option"


    But he did not give you what he was contracted to give you, unless there is more to the backstory. Why do you thing he is not entitled to a poor review?

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    Ugh I always get scared to do that because at one point when the builder wouldn’t fix things I posted pics for a review and that turned into threats, being called names and blocking my from hiring people. I’m still a little bit holding out hope that something will happen with the engineering firm. I have given myself a deadline of not getting anything from my engineer before I make a complaint or review. But that’s only two weeks away. There’s no more to the story or if there is, I’m not aware of it.

  • PRO
    Floored You: TileDesigners
    last year

    Ask the engineer for a refund. He did not provide the services you paid for. That will either get him moving, or you will get your money back. I would also ask the builder for a buy back on the house, since it has so many issues. That would be in exchange for you signing a non disclosure agreement about the issues. This is where the lawyer comes into play.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    Like had had mentioned before, I have requested a refund several times and I’m ignored. The builder refuses to have any dealings with negotiating since I turned down the amount.

  • millworkman
    last year

    Try telling the "engineer" that while you appreciate his help to this point, you need the report you contracted him for and that while you would love to give me a positive review he is making that very difficult and while you do not want to you may need to give him a poor review.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    Yeah that’s a good idea. It would be so much easier with any of this if I knew anything at all. Like if they have been sick, or do not want to be involved, or just that busy. Heck even if I was told they don’t like me it would at least be something.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    I had teleconference with the attorney and my engineer. I found the hard way during the meeting that no work was done yet by the engineer. Yes I did ask over and over again if he was prepared before I was out more time and money. The lawyer said at that time there’s nothing for him to work with to get started. I was very upset and completely shocked that the engineer “surprised” me with this for lack of better words. After expressing how wrong that was for my engineer, I was able to do some digging on the deadlines for discovery and have a conversation with the lawyer. He said he will take the case if he gets information from the engineer and gave me the retainer information and contract. I told the engineer about all this, just like I told him about deadlines all along. I contacted him over and over again and no response about me retaining the lawyer. Unfortunately I had to cancel moving forward with the lawyer because of not knowing what the hell was going on with the engineer. Thank god I didn’t sign the contract yet, I just had a bad feeling. No matter how many lawyers I have contacted it’s all the same. They cannot do anything without a report and emails are not enough. I have missed multiple deadlines and the engineer is very aware. Other than that one meeting there hasn’t been any contact between the lawyer and engineer.

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @User - First, can you add returns to your posts, it is hard to read a wall of text.

    Next, I don't understand your attorney's unwillingness to advise you in this matter if what you are writing here is correct. They seem disinterested in your case.

    However, I have far more concerns over your actions thus far than the engineer's, you are doing things I would advise my clients against doing.

    The engineer doesn't really have a choice here. He took the engagement and rendered an opinion, he is required to put that opinion in writing in a timely manner. In this case if the engineer knows of, or reasonably should have known of, a deadline for producing a report, then he has a duty to produce the report by that date.

    Not doing so would be professional negligence and he would essentially be liable for your loss from the missed deadline. Your attorney should be eager to communicate that issue to the engineer on your behalf.

    So, when you write things like, "Thank god I didn’t sign the contract yet, I just had a bad feeling." I am concerned that you are preventing your attorney from acting properly on your behalf and shooting yourself in the foot. Because I can't imagine any attorney not being apoplectic about your asking the engineer for a refund.

    User thanked bry911
  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    I’m sorry, maybe my wording is poor. During the consultation with the attorney he made it clear to both myself and the engineer the importance of the deadlines and because of not having the report I have already missed an extremely important deadline. He really got on my engineer about not having anything yet. I did not know at all that there was nothing done with the case yet. The attorney was very sympathetic to me personally and essentially was telling me and the engineer that he needs to do his job because I’m in a very crucial spot and his hands are tied without any documentation. He was clear what needed to be done to at least start on anything and it needs to be done ASAP! Upon the conclusion of the meeting I sent my engineer an email expressing how wrong that was and how embarrassed I was considering I knew the attorney couldn’t do anything without proof. I then also forwarded that email to the attorney and also apologized because I was completely in the dark nothing had been done. This attorney even told me and the engineer several times over the course of about a month before the meeting what he was going to need. My engineer said he was ready for the meeting that’s why I scheduled. I have had communication with that attorney wanting to move forward but I don’t have anything from the engineer. The attorney is not the one who said to try any get my money back since there’s no report. I took it upon myself after being ignored for months to either give me the report by the end of the week (a month ago now) or give me my money back so I can hire another engineer before my last deadline runs out. I have not retained the attorney because I have nothing to offer yet. He never mentioned about going after the engineer or anything. Maybe I need to contact him and find out what direction to go considering what is happening with the engineer. I really don’t know how much longer I can fight. And code enforcement is protected according to the lawyer even though they screwed up a lot and they are still doing things to keep me from filing a lawsuit. I’m just glad I personally keep great records.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    Bry911, I just sent the attorney an email about the engineer. Fingers crossed!

  • just_janni
    last year

    Is your contractor licensed?


    The NC licensing board has investigators on staff that conduct investigations on complaints.

  • rockybird
    last year

    I am wondering if the engineer does not want to be dragged into a court case? Was he recommended by your atty as an expert witness? What was he supposed to issue? What kind of report? Did he go out to the site and document issues with photos taken? Did the atty meet him out there? Did the atty come on site and see the issues? Bry has a good point about not receiving a refund. The engineer could be liable for not issuing a timely report which could negatively affect your case.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    Yes he is licensed. I have contacted the board. It was sent to my local board in my county. He said I need the engineer report before they will come out and that he is backed up for months.

  • bry911
    last year

    code enforcement is protected according to the lawyer even though they screwed up a lot and they are still doing things to keep me from filing a lawsuit.


    Code enforcement doesn't owe you a duty. The courts have long held that code enforcement is intended for the benefit of the community and not individual homeowners or builders. Therefore, they can't be charged with negligence by either party, but that also means they are a poor defense against negligence. They shouldn't be able to hold up your filing as they owe you nothing nor can their opinion be used as protection by the builder.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    Back a couple months ago when code enforcement came to my house she said if I’m going to take the builder to court I should just forget about the problems with the house and focus on the breaches in the contract. That has been a lesson learned because I thought code enforcement was supposed to enforce code and thought they have the safety and best interest of the homeowner. Of course now I know better especially given all the code violations.

  • cpartist
    last year
    last modified: last year

    He really got on my engineer about not having anything yet. I did not know at all that there was nothing done with the case yet. The attorney was very sympathetic to me personally and essentially was telling me and the engineer that he needs to do his job because I’m in a very crucial spot and his hands are tied without any documentation. He was clear what needed to be done to at least start on anything and it needs to be done ASAP! Upon the conclusion of the meeting I sent my engineer an email expressing how wrong that was and how embarrassed I was considering I knew the attorney couldn’t do anything without proof.

    Are you saying you went behind your lawyers back and apologized to the engineer because you were embarrassed? I hope not because once you start working with a lawyer, you let the lawyer do the talking for you and you don't go behind his/her back and start apologizing for anything he/she said. Otherwise you're undermining your lawyer.

    And if that is what happened, I'm not surprised the lawyer doesn't want to work with you anymore.

  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    last year

    @User I am sorry to say that your style of communication is extremely unclear. It feels like you are totally lost and working against yourself at every step.

    If the facts are that the engineer is telling you there are defects, but he is refusing to itemize those defects in writing, then this suggests to me the engineer has a conflict of interest and is afraid of pissing off someone who he gets business from in other contexts. Your new lawyer should report the engineer to a licensing board, but let the lawyer guide you on how that happens. And you will probably need to hire a new engineer who does not have those same conflicts of interest.

    If there were clear code violations, why is the municipal inspector not willing to document those violations in writing? You don't need to discuss your life in detail with those people. Don't tell them that you are going to sue anyone. Just ask them to document the defects, as those are just additional tools for your lawyer. Probably you need the new lawyer to advise you on how to do this specifically, step by step.

    You might want to see if a local newspaper/television station has a consumer desk that will help you find a lawyer who will actually do some work for you. It feels like you are working behind everyone's back, and you probably upset your lawyer by the way you are handling the situation.

    In your detailed responses you state "I know the roof was put on in the wrong direction so it’s spreading and breaking. The one side of the how has sunk a few inches. The foundation is cracked and separated everywhere. The walls are leaning out because the sill plates are off the outside of the foundation 4-5 inches around the whole house. Water intrusion in many areas. Plumbing, electrical etc issues." Why would such basic points be hidden away in the conversation here and not central within the original post? I am also confused why did your lawyer never write a simple letter to the engineer that states the above defects were stated by him in email and in verbal reports and asks him to put those into writing? I am perplexed why your lawyer is asking you to extract that information out of the engineer, when the lawyer knows the legally correct way to make these requests and you do not?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    Bec:


    I've read this entire thread, particularly between the lines. With all due respect, you need a therapist much more than an engineer or lawyer. Contact the VA please. I'd give that advice to anyone who confesses to sleeping in his vehicle.


    "I know the roof was put on in the wrong direction so it’s spreading and breaking."


    What does this mean? I've never heard of a roof being "put on in the wrong direction" and I've been in construction my entire career. Horizontal rain slots? Nor have I heard of a roof "spreading and breaking". Leaking? Sure.


    "The one side of the house has sunk a few inches. The foundation is cracked and separated everywhere. The walls are leaning out because the sill plates are off the outside of the foundation 4-5 inches around the whole house. Water intrusion in many areas."


    Some settlement is normal. Wall leaning is easily verified with a plumb bob and a ladder, both of which your engineer doesn't keep in his pocket protector. Hydraulic cement and/or epoxy can remedy water intrusion.


    You don't particularly need an engineer. A competent consultant, credentialed or not, can make a factural written case as to whether or not your home is built to specifications and standards and make recommendations for cost effective abatement of issues.

  • rockybird
    last year

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC Look up the OP's two other posts. Some of the issues are discussed with photos there. I don't understand the roof issue though or how any of this was signed off on by the city permit office. It would be great to see more photos of some of the issues.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    @cpartist

    1. I did NOT go behind "my lawyers" back about anything. I was very upset with my engineer who said he was prepared for the meeting and wasn't. I apologized to "my lawyer" for not being prepared which was embarrassing considering the lawyer was very clear to myself and the engineer what was needed weeks before the meeting.

    2. He is NOT "my lawyer" yet because I cannot retain him until I have an engineering report.

    3. "My lawyer" never said he wouldn't work with me. He said I need an engineering report to move forward.

    @westes Zone 9b California SF Bay

    1. There shouldn't be any conflict of interest since I have asked several times and assured that there's not a conflict of interest.

    2. Yesterday I sent an email to the attorney that I had the consultation with to see what can be done about my engineer. I am waiting for a response.

    3. I am in the process of getting a new engineering firm out to my house.

    4. The Chief Code Enforcement Officer has been sent home inspections, limited engineer report, mold and appraisal reports stating defects and violations. I still need to send the report from my insurance company. Exact response was, "and you sent me this why?"

    5. I haven't discussed my life in detail with anyone except for saying the house doesn't have the ADA things it was supposed to.

    6. I didn't tell anyone I was going to sue. When code enforcement came to my house she said, "if you are going to take the builder to court you should just focus on the contract violations and not the problems with the house."

    7. I cannot answer why code enforcement isn't listing/documenting violations because I just don't know.

    8. I have contacted the local media but have not received a response.

    9. "My lawyer" is not upset with me.

    10. I have not gone behind anyone's back about anything.

    11. According to my inspector and engineer the ceiling joists were installed perpendicular to the roof rafters causing rafters and/or exterior wall spreading.

    12. When I say, "I know..." it's because for the most part those items were told to me in emails by my structural, but I do not have a report.

    13. I hid NOTHING from the "conversation." The "conversation" was SUPPOSED to be about how long an engineering report takes and if this is normal. I merely answered questions as they came, still not getting my own answered.

    14. "My lawyer" did tell my engineer exactly what was needed several times. I did not know it was going to get to the point of going after the engineer. Again, hence the reason for the post.

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC

    1. I slept in my vehicle and/or garage because it was extremely difficult to breathe or even swallow due to the mold. Now I see the saine thing would have been to stay in the mold.

    2. According to legal consultation, board of contractors and any contractor I have actually been able to look at the house all say they need an engineering report.

    3. The house is not at all to spec that's why it's a messy situation.

    4. Hydraulic cement and/or epoxy will not fix all of the different areas of intrusion.

    5. There is already "verification" of all of these issues but not a report.

    This last statement is for everyone and then I'm done with this post. I have had my fill of "help." I suppose I have to apologize for my wording and/or verbiage. With MS and CTE I struggle every friggen second of every friggen day to figure out how to do simple tasks, form words and sentences, speak without sounding drunk, thought structure, walking, turning on a TV, brushing my teeth and the list going on and on. Dealing with mold having a compromised immune system takes my hell to another level. I have been greatly reminded why I keep to myself, don't reach out, don't ask for help and have become a shut in. It's ridiculous that in order to be treated and spoken to like a human being I actually do have to put my "personal story" out there. Maybe I'll just change my profile picture to something that says, "treat me like garbage because my MS and CTE make me crazy?"

    Thank you all again. I never did find out how long a report takes. I do not need or want a response from anyone anymore. "WITH ALL DUE RESPECT!"


  • bry911
    last year

    Thank you all again. I never did find out how long a report takes. I do not need or want a response from anyone anymore. "WITH ALL DUE RESPECT!"


    While I know you stated that you didn't want a response... I did explain how long the engineer has to produce a report and will endeavor to do so again, I will also note that I don't think I have treated you poorly...


    Largely, how long a report takes is irrelevant. The engineer is required to produce a report in a timely manner. This is essentially the same standard for all professionals. Timely is a bit of a broad idea, but there are some guidelines that are important in your situation. If the engineer is aware that you need the report by a certain date, or reasonably should have been aware given the circumstances, then they have an obligation to produce the report by that date. If your engineer can't produce the report by that date then they must notify you prior to that date so that you can make other arrangements.

    Supposing an engineering report normally takes 6 months to produce and an engineer becomes aware that you need it in 4 months. The engineer becomes obligated to produce the report in 4 months. If you have emailed him often and scheduled a meeting with an attorney, then he should obviously be aware that time is of the essence for this report. So even if he can't produce the report in the time given, he is obligated to tell you.

    ---

    This is why I am confused by the actions of your attorney as it seems an appropriate time to write a demand letter.

    ---

    As to the conflict of interest... I don't care if he has one or not. Pick your poison, he is either negligent because he can't produce the report, or can't produce the report because of negligence.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    @bry911

    I'm sorry. You have actually been nice and helpful and a couple others have been as well. I just got pretty upset with some things said to me that I have zero control over. It is not easy dealing with the complicated house issues and being very u well especially without any help. That why I have to ask questions when I absolutely can't come up with an answer. All of this being my heath and house are embarrassing and humiliating. The last thing I want to do is tell people about stuff. The most reasonable thing to do is just forget all trying to take of anything. I'm spent. Thank you again.

  • just_janni
    last year

    I would hope that your lawyer has relationships with professional engineering firms s/he has worked with in the past, trusts and will provide good service. THEY should have the right notacts not rely on you to sniff out an engineering firm.


    Now it's possible they don't want to take a case without some hard evidence that the problem is "real" but the same reasoning applies- I would think they would want to refer you to someone they trust.

  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    last year

    @bry911 How long should an engineering report for this type of situation take? Your hypothetical four to six months in your last reply seems like a lot. Is it required that the engineer produce a detailed report of every single aspect of the home? In this case it seems like there are three or four major defects that might actually require the entire structure to be reframed. Why wait six months for a detailed report when simply covering major defects might be sufficient to create a legal case and move forward?

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    I do apologize to the people that have been helpful. I was taken back by several snarky comments.

  • User
    Original Author
    last year

    @just_janni


    I have not retained the attorney yet because I don't have enough information from my engineer. This is true for every law office I have contacted. This whole entire situation lies on the engineer. I got this engineer over a year ago when the builder was still saying he was going to fix things and scheduling appointments with me to do so which ended up in no call, no show for the entire time I have lived here. I only reached out to this attorney a few months ago when my engineer kept pushing me to get a lawyer. I had already given up on fighting this. The engineer did not suggest any specific attorney. There's pictures and inspections for the attorney to include of of the public record information that doesn't match my house. I have also been in touch with the design firm who did my plans and they are taken back by the changes that were made.

  • elcieg
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I have read your two other posts, and nothing has been solved. As suggested, hire another lawyer and then step back and let her do what she is educated and paid to do. Stop having useless and frustrating conversations with people over whom you have no control. There is no one here on houzz who actually can help you solve the issues, but your situation needs immediate attention...legal,and I agree that you are very upset and stressed. A lot of us have had those emotional issues from one thing or another. Do see a therapist. A good one will help you put it all in perspective and relieve you from all this anxiety.

    Right now you are just spinning your wheels.

  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    last year

    @User You hired an engineer a YEAR AGO? And after one year of time this engineer cannot plainly state in writing that:

    * your foundation is cracking eveywhere

    * your roof was installed incorrecty

    * your structural framing walls are not plumb and are leaning out

    Either the engineer does not agree with your assessment, or the engineer is completely incompetent and cannot do his job correctly, or the engineer is completely corrupted by conflicts of interest.

    Reading this post is actually painful. You are being played, and you are doing nothing to help yourself

  • just_janni
    last year

    Is this a situation where it's a smaller community, everyone know everyone, no one local wants rock this boat?


    It appears the engineer SAYS all the right things - but appears to be reluctant to engage formally / in writing - which will obligate him to stand up to "whoever" they are avoiding. Same thing with attorney?


    You obviously know the local dynamics better than I do but....


    Have you considered getting someone further away who can also bring in an engineer?

  • Gargamel
    last year

    I wondered the same thing as jjanni. Your entire predicament sounds so familiar if one lives in a small (or rural) village/town

  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @just_janni Exactly right. To paraphrase the Calvin Coolidge saying "Never count on an engineer putting his findings into writing when his most of his salary depends on him never putting those things into writing."

    In the meantime, the builder, the engineer, and the lawyers are all ticking away at the statute of limitations, and the strategy here may be to drag things along for years so that in the end there is no legal recourse to file a case because too much time was wasted.

    Your point to find an engineer who is outside the local community is probably a good idea, but even then you need to ask the engineer point blank how much business he does with the builder.

  • PRO
    Grogan Engineering
    last year

    I feel like I need to weigh in on this one.


    A few things:

    1. Did you get a proposal from the Engineer? If so, it should say what the product is.


    2. I personally do not get involved in litigious matters. I simply don't have time for it and my rate would have to triple to make it worthwhile.


    3. It makes no sense to me the company you hired doesn't want to offer their opinion in writing. I ALWAYS put my opinion in writing. I have even done this on several occasions where the client does not want my services. This is to document what I saw, on that day, etc. as the situation can change instantly.


    4. I never ask clients to pay upfront. It seems really odd to ask someone to pay $2500 without a product, contract, etc. Some companies will ask you to pay once the report is ready, to release the report. This is due to deadbeats (but all the deadbeats I have had over the years are Contractors not Homeowners) so I don't require that personally but that's just a business model thing.


    5. Residential Engineers build their businesses on volume. They need to do a dozen reports or design of several whole houses a week to stay in business.


    I am sorry you had a bad experience with an Engineer but try a different one. They are no different than contractors, lawyers, doctors, weathermen, there are good and bad ones and everything in between.


    You must live in a rural county, because what you are describing I don't think would have ever gotten that far in the populated areas. Mecklenburg county for example is VERY thorough. Anyway, good luck!



  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @Grogan Engineering It would be very useful to this thread if you give a range of time that it might take a typical engineer to produce a written report, given the facts in this thread. For example, would it be between one and three months? How long do you think it would take you, and that could be a range of time as well.

    I am trying to make sense of one year. I see one year as the time it would take to produce a report about a complex commercial building failure. I cannot imagine any small residential home analysis taking even three months before there would be a complete written report of the findings.

  • bry911
    last year

    @westes Zone 9b California SF Bay I know you are trying to help, but it doesn't work that way.

    First, there is no standard engineering report so there is no standard time for a report. Each report will have its own issues and complexity. So asking how long an engineering report will take is about like asking how long a drive to work should take. It is impossible to comment on your drive to work based on typical experiences. However, we know the engineer charged $2,500 and so we can assume the report isn't going to take 100 hours because he isn't working for peanuts.

    The other problem is that the time it takes to produce a report is often disconnected from when it is produced. I have seen short simple reports take a while because they were not needed and complicated reports take a few days because time was of the essence.

    In the end, we know an engineer has a reasonable amount of time to prepare a report, we know a year seems unreasonable and that is all we need to know.

  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    last year

    @bry911 I agree with most of what you say but that was absorbed into my question, by asking for a range. Someone could answer the question I asked by saying something like "One month for a straightforward case and up to six months if any of the following complications exist: a, b, and c."

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @westes Zone 9b California SF Bay again... it doesn't exist and it wouldn't matter if it did.

    You can't control for the differences to come up with a typical time. One engineer might take 4 hours to produce a five page report and another might take 20 hours to produce the exact same report just because those engineers have different proficiencies in engineering and writing.

    An engineering report is just a technical report... it will have the date of observation or testing, the problems seen, and recommendations. If an engineer has issued similar reports then it will be faster as much of the report will be a template. On the other hand, an engineer may not be happy with the things in the report and have rewrite it, or redraw diagrams, etc. It may be issues they are familiar with or not, with solutions that require little innovation or lots.

    ---

    ETA: we have an engineer who is not doing what they are required to do and an attorney who apparently doesn't care. Independently these are concerning behaviors but taken together they are baffling.


    If you went to any attorney I know and said, "I paid an engineer six months ago and still can't get a written report," they would address that issue independently. So the first step is to get this attorney to do so, or find another attorney who will.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    I remain perplexed that so many can read the lines here, but so few can read between them.

  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    last year

    @User It wouldn't hurt to post photos of the defects you see in the home.

  • PRO
    Grogan Engineering
    last year

    I have no idea what the issues are with the house so a little hard for me to say how long a report would take. I just wrote that if a residential engineering firm is not pumping out at least half a dozen reports a week it will be difficult for them financially. I sent out two yesterday morning. I had the information for a week. But those are straight forward and no one is using the word lawyer.


    The problem the original poster is having is a business one, not an engineer one; ie. client management of expectation is business 101. "What product are you needing? What time frame? It will take me 10 years, is that OK?"


    If the OP has a contract, in there its likely to have a Limits Of Liability (LOL) clause which protects the engineer. Ie. if you paid him $2500, all you can sue him for is $2500 or some agreed amount. Depending on the Engineers insurance company, they may require this. I put it in all my proposals and have for years.


    Its $2500, take the engineer to small claims court if you have in writing you were supposed to get a report. If not, well you paid for his opinion and have some emails to document it. If the house falls down and someone gets hurt, its his negligence of not ensuring the safety of the public which is what is decreed by all engineering boards across the country. But again its all your burden of proof.



  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Just as a point... limits of liability clauses are great at preventing people from suing and can be worthless when they do.

    Most states in the U.S. have statutes that make them unenforceable and in moat other states the legal precedent is that limits on liability can only be for punitive damages and not compensatory damages.

    This is one of those things that people who are not familiar with contracts often fail to realize. Many contracts will have unenforceable clauses in them, the courts have established a laundry list of unenforceable clauses, but so long as there is an enforceability clause, (e.g. if any portion of this contract is found unenforceable the rest shall remain in effect), they are still useful at convincing people that suing is a waste of time.

    It is very difficult to make others pay for damages that you cause.

  • PRO
    Grogan Engineering
    last year

    To each their own; several billion dollar companies I used to work for and insurance companies swear by them so I use them. To your point, certain things have to happen, and written a certain way to be enforceable but I won't get into that here.


    "damage that you cause" that's the problem, its never that black and white. Who is at fault when a building settles? The structural engineer, the geotech engineer, both or some portion of both, the contractor, the inspection company? etc. etc. The answer every construction lawyer I've ever had guidance from, is the one with the weakest contract and most insurance.

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    To each their own; several billion dollar companies I used to work for and insurance companies swear by them so I use them.

    This is a bit immaterial to the situation at hand... Statutes aimed at protecting consumers often don't protect multi-billion dollar corporations. For example, in my state, which is not consumer friendly, the statute specifically targets limited liability clauses in residential advisory services including home inspection, engineering, and architectural services.

    I used to run capital asset development for a Fortune 100 company and in my experience clauses that limit liability to fees exist to increase the attorney fees for defeating them and not as a backstop against damages in negligence.

    "damage that you cause" that's the problem, its never that black and white. Who is at fault when a building settles?

    Again, this is apples and oranges. The above statement describes a situation where the negligence is difficult to assign, which is immaterial here. Here, the engineer was hired by the OP to produce a report, he accepted money and hasn't produced the report in (well beyond) a reasonable time and, so far as we know, hasn't given a reason to the OP why the report can't be produced. I don't see how he can successfully argue that an unknown third party, is responsible for his delay.

    In this case, any costs that the OP incurs and any rights that the OP is denied that would have been available had the engineer produced a report in a timely manner are damages. However, no one is advising the OP sue the engineer. I have simply advised the OP to get an attorney to put the engineer on notice via a demand letter. Which is absolutely the appropriate next step.

    ----

    ETA: Just to be clear, the actions of the attorney and engineer taken together are peculiar enough for me to strongly suspect we don't have enough information to decide anything on this matter. However, the one thing we do know for sure is the OP paid an engineer for a report and that engineer is required to produce a report.

    So the engineer should be pressured to produce the report immediately.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    "Just to be clear, the actions of the attorney and engineer taken together are peculiar enough for me to strongly suspect we don't have enough information to decide anything on this matter."


    Welcome to the club.

  • PRO
    Grogan Engineering
    last year

    Unless the OP has it in writing, that a report is the product, there is nothing that is required by the Engineer. Don't torture it. Its a small claims issue at best. the OP has a several hundred thousand dollar problem with the contractor who built them a house with apparent concerns.


    I am not going to debate LOLs here. My insurance company wants to see my agreement and know what % of proposals have the language in it during their underwriting process every three years. That's what matters. Not your opinion of how things should go.

  • elcieg
    last year
    last modified: last year

    BEC SMITH is gone.

    I was hoping to ask you all if you had read her earlier posts, starting last March, if I remember correctly. She needs help legally and medically. I hope she gets both. So sad when you have to turn to complete strangers for support and advice. Something is very off and it is concerning.

  • bry911
    last year

    @Grogan Engineering - With all due respect... I don't care what the engineer's contract says s/he must produce at all.

    According to what the OP says the architect has had several interactions about the production of a report with the OP and with the OP's attorney. You are not allowed to mislead someone by either deception or omission. The engineer is very aware that the OP is waiting on a report and so is the attorney that they met with. It is beyond ridiculous to now pretend that the engineer has no duty to produce the report.

    Furthermore, limitation of liability clauses are not that powerful. In fact, the insurance company's involvement makes them easier to defeat. The main reason that limitation of liability clauses are defeated in consumer to professional services engagements is that to be enforceable these clauses must be entered under equal negotiating power. So please, let's not debate it and it doesn't matter that your insurance company requires it. There is significant nuance to limitation of liability and you can't say that it is a small claims issue from the information given here, so please don't.


    The OP needs to pay a retainer to their attorney or find one to interface with the engineer. If there is no attorney willing to do this, the OP should contact their state's attorney general's office for consumer protection and ask to file a complaint.