I disagree with the notion that Norway maple is in some way inadequate in terms of aesthetics. Babs said "not nice bark, not healthy foliage...." and more and it is that part with which I find disagreement. The leaves are lustrous and thick-looking, the bark is okay, nothing wrong with it, the fall color, while not in the same league as sugar maple or red maple, is still brilliant in many cases. Hey, I totally agree with not planting this tree in situations where it can escape into the wild, which is most situations, but that's due to its invasive potential, not a lack of aesthetic attributes. This is opinion, but after all, I do believe there are reasons that several million Norway maples got planted all over the northern US, and those reasons do not include that it is ugly. One final point: Tar spot, a nuisance fungal pathogen, does impact the foliar quality of N. maple, and to a greater degree than in other maple species. So maybe that's what Babs was getting at, and to that extent, I do agree with her. But that's due to a pathogen, not an intrinsic factor of the tree species itself.

Just thought I would expand on what Christine said earlier about people driving up the price of online auctions and additionly what Mike has said. What is done by a couple of sellers mentioned thus far is that they pay as little as $5 to buy a 4" pot wholesale (This is also done by website sellers, but they offer a fixed price) and then either immediately or after growing them on for a season, they sell them at acution on ebay. Sometimes, a seller may have some stock plants of common nursery varieties the he grafts himself, but orders in the new plants he does not have stock plants for. So when we go into an auction, the value of that auction for a first year plant is in obtaining a very low price. Additionally, some sellers will ship at very reasonable prices, but others are much too high in my opinion. So when we drive the price of these often very small plants up, we pay nearly as much as we would from someone who sells maples though a hosted website (Wildwood, Mountain Maples, Eastwood). This is where I feel it is better to turn to a web-based nursery than persist with ebay auctions. Even those that have nurseries like Jherter and Nishikimaplesman choose to sell through ebay and the reason being is that more times than not, they will average higher prices in the auctions. Some will even fudge a bit to call a plant a two year tree when it is not. If we are going to spend $30-50 then we might as well establish with an online nursery that will guarantee their plants and is ethical enough to sell through a web-based business. As much as ebay wants us to feel it is a business, it is not! It can be enjoyable to buy from ebay in the winter when not much else is happening and I buy during the growing season also. But I also frequent local nurseries in Oregon. So in anycase, whether or not we buy from ebay, it is nice to have a balance between local sellers where we can go and see the trees and buying online. It is only in going to an actual nursery that we will learn about the plants and those that care enough to propagate them. Establishing an entire collection over ebay is something that I would not enjoy as I would miss the interaction with the growers and nurserymen who also love maples. Of course there are unfortunate areas of the country where local establishments are not accessible and thereby it is understandable to have to use online sellers only. There is something said for establishing relationships and I do not believe that will be done on ebay--it is about the money to be had by auctioning trees. As Mike said in different words, it is "Buyer Beware" and now with this thread, equally as interesting, "Seller Beware!" I have had equally good and bad experiences with almost every seller mentioned here so far, but I will say that Cedric (Bonsaibob) seems to know the most about maples and had the best communication practices--problem is that his enhanced photography seems to lead to a higher frequency of auctions where the price is driven up. There is no reason to pay those kind of prices unless we feel there is no other avenue to obtain the plant and we have to have it. MJH

As for the Orange Dream and Shidiva Gold, they will both grow upright and a bit twiggy at first. You will see very small thin chutes on new growth, but after a few seasons they chutes will take on a better form. I have not grown Shidiva, but I think both to be medium shrub-like trees. I don't think I would plant either of them if I was looking for that one special tree. It is really hard to give the best recommendation--especially when you are willing to look for something out of the ordinary. Here is a list that I recently put together of some of my favorites: Aratama Beni hoshi Beni kumo-no-su Butterfly (Oregon) Edna Bergman Ellen Hoshi kuzu Nuresagi Oregon Sunset Oshu beni Ruby Ridge Seiryu Shojo shidare Shigitatsu sawa Tsukushigata Villa taranto Wabito Yubae Since you seem to have the option to plant some things of various size, many might work. Tsuma gaki and Tsuma beni are also very bright and nice, but tender. After reading your recent statements, I was kind of feeling like you might try a veriegate. My choices would be: Shigitatsu sawa, Amber Ghost, Purple Ghost, Peaches and Cream. All might be a gamble. Narrow down your list and I will be happy to comment further. MJH

Weeping Alaskan cedar is a full sized tree over 60' tall. Did you allow enough room for this, or are they going to overwhelm the house both physically and visually (if you are going for naturalistic will not want to be planting formal matching pairs or groups)? One I planted at the corner of my drive when I was a kid grew at least 2 ft. per year once established, some years it seemed like it might have gotten more like 3 ft. taller that year. In time it grew out over the road and began to become a bother, when I had most of the lower part of the property converted to lawn last fall the stump was something like 18 in. across - and too close to the road to grind out. Measurements of examples of the Van Den Akker clone of 'Pendula' (now listed as 'Van Den Akker' even though that is not what Van Den Akker sold it as) on a commercial site near Kirkland a few years ago produced heights of the order of 79 ft. The planting was identified as this introduction by a member of the Van Den Akker family and the measurements were obtained using a laser range finder. A section of the parking lots immediately east of the Edmonds marina has both paperbark and what look to be red - as well as some definite Freeman maples, with flame-shaped crowns - growing near one another. The former look in scale with the planting spaces and are covered in decorative bark all winter; the latter are all pokey, explosive and cement colored (except for reddish twigs) - and have been disfigured by removal of larger lower branches in an obvious attempt to keep them away from sidewalks and roads. Some of the Freeman maples are so scalped they might as well cut them down now - they are only going to get bigger and bigger, what are they going to do with them later? This post was edited by bboy on Wed, Jan 15, 14 at 14:40